Today, just browsing online and I noted that the rates for my energy plan are now 7% lower than when I joined the current provider in August. So I called them and they gave me the new lower rates, backdated to apply from the start of current billing period.
So it is worthwhile checking. It's now in my diary to check every few months.
I am in the NSW Central Coast (Ausgrid). The current rate from Red Energy is 30.635c per kwh on their Living Energy Saver plan.
Whenarewethere said
05:18 PM Dec 19, 2023
We get unstuck on the daily network charge as it is a high percentage of our overall bill.
yobarr said
07:46 PM Dec 19, 2023
Whenarewethere wrote:
We get unstuck on the daily network charge as it is a high percentage of our overall bill.
That's a common thought, but care must also be taken not to let that charge distract you from the other charges on the bill. If you have Solar you must research FIT (Feed in tariff) and you should install a HWT (Hot water timer) and put the Hot water onto the T11 meter.
In NSW various offerings can be found by accessing WATTever, where comparisons are made. BUt it's critical that you are not sidetracked by by any single aspect of a bill.
The bill must be assessed in its entirity. Cheers
Whenarewethere said
08:35 PM Dec 19, 2023
We live in two adjoining Units, so 2 lots of network charges, use about 4000kWh a year in total maximum. Electricity only, no gas in our building.
Have thought about removing one meter.
Actually 3 Units as we bought a third Unit & got the garage rewired to 1 of our Units. It would otherwise be a bit rude that tenants pay our garage electricity usage.
The common electricity in our building which includes the laundry, which we don't use as we have washing machine in our own Unit (so for 15 Units is about $800pa, of which we pay 3/15 mostly for others. Common lighting portion is $60pa)
Our Committee has discussed solar & battery. Also plan to install a common EV charger (wiring already factored in) with network charge facility for each user. We have 415 volt 200 amp per phase supply in our building for the original instantaneous HSW systems for every Unit, not many are using them any more & replaced with 50 - 80L tanks.
So building mains supply has plenty of capacity.
The garage owners have 3 phase to their garages, but none of us has an EV yet.
yobarr said
08:54 PM Dec 19, 2023
Whenarewethere wrote:
We live in two adjoining Units, so 2 lots of network charges, use about 4000 kWh a year in total maximum. Electricity only, no gas in our building.
Have thought about removing one meter.
Actually 3 Units as we bought a third Unit & got the garage rewired to 1 of our Units. It would otherwise be a bit rude that tenants pay our garage electricity usage.
The common electricity in our building which includes the laundry, which we don't use as we have washing machine in our own Unit (so for 15 Units is about $800pa, of which we pay 3/15 mostly for others. Common lighting portion is $60pa)
Our Committee has discussed solar & battery. Also plan to install a common EV charger (wiring already factored in) with network charge facility for each user. We have 415 volt 200 amp per phase supply in our building for the original instantaneous HSW systems for every Unit, not many are using them any more & replaced with 50 - 80L tanks.
So building mains supply has plenty of capacity.
The garage owners have 3 phase to their garages, but none of us has an EV yet.
That usage is ridiculously low at under 11kwh/day.
Waste of money installing Solar (and especially NOT batteries)
When I was selling Solar I used to walk away from any house that was using less than 15kWh/day, absolute minimum.
Most houses I sold to were using 25-30kWh/day, with many in the 30-40kWh range, and one at 188kWh/ day. Yes,188!!
Customer had wife who LOVED Reverse cycle AC units which ran 24/7 in their huuuuuge home.
Obviously there was a huge roof space and I was told that I could use any part of the roof that wasn't visible from the road.
All other roofs faced the water and owner wasn't concerned about boaties viewing his array! Cheers
P.S Used to sell NOTHING under 6kws at around $20,000.
Whenarewethere said
10:01 PM Dec 19, 2023
On the back of the Energy Australia bill. Supposedly the energy consumption in our area for 1 person is 7.75kWh/24hours, 2 people is 12.77kWh/24hours.
I know in our block of Units we are pretty much an average user on a per capita basis. Some are barely using anything. Not that we are trying that hard, but at times I do wonder how little energy some are using.
PeterInSa said
09:43 AM Dec 20, 2023
Off Topic
Re (P.S Used to sell NOTHING under 6kws at around $20,000.)
Recently, I was involved (advice only) in an Adelaide Install of 12Kw Jinko Solar panels, 2.6kw x 2 Batteries, Inverter/Charger, Blackout facility, remove 2Kw solar system for $11,000
peter67 said
09:46 AM Dec 20, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
We live in two adjoining Units, so 2 lots of network charges, use about 4000 kWh a year in total maximum. Electricity only, no gas in our building.
Have thought about removing one meter.
Actually 3 Units as we bought a third Unit & got the garage rewired to 1 of our Units. It would otherwise be a bit rude that tenants pay our garage electricity usage.
The common electricity in our building which includes the laundry, which we don't use as we have washing machine in our own Unit (so for 15 Units is about $800pa, of which we pay 3/15 mostly for others. Common lighting portion is $60pa)
Our Committee has discussed solar & battery. Also plan to install a common EV charger (wiring already factored in) with network charge facility for each user. We have 415 volt 200 amp per phase supply in our building for the original instantaneous HSW systems for every Unit, not many are using them any more & replaced with 50 - 80L tanks.
So building mains supply has plenty of capacity.
The garage owners have 3 phase to their garages, but none of us has an EV yet.
That usage is ridiculously low at under 11kwh/day.
Waste of money installing Solar (and especially NOT batteries)
When I was selling Solar I used to walk away from any house that was using less than 15kWh/day, absolute minimum.
Most houses I sold to were using 25-30kWh/day, with many in the 30-40kWh range, and one at 188kWh/ day. Yes,188!!
Customer had wife who LOVED Reverse cycle AC units which ran 24/7 in their huuuuuge home.
Obviously there was a huge roof space and I was told that I could use any part of the roof that wasn't visible from the road.
All other roofs faced the water and owner wasn't concerned about boaties viewing his array! Cheers
P.S Used to sell NOTHING under 6kws at around $20,000.
yobarr, I'll bet your 188kwh customer had some greenery growing under lights in the roof cavity...
yobarr said
09:54 AM Dec 20, 2023
peter67 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
We live in two adjoining Units, so 2 lots of network charges, use about 4000 kWh a year in total maximum. Electricity only, no gas in our building.
Have thought about removing one meter.
Actually 3 Units as we bought a third Unit & got the garage rewired to 1 of our Units. It would otherwise be a bit rude that tenants pay our garage electricity usage.
The common electricity in our building which includes the laundry, which we don't use as we have washing machine in our own Unit (so for 15 Units is about $800pa, of which we pay 3/15 mostly for others. Common lighting portion is $60pa)
Our Committee has discussed solar & battery. Also plan to install a common EV charger (wiring already factored in) with network charge facility for each user. We have 415 volt 200 amp per phase supply in our building for the original instantaneous HSW systems for every Unit, not many are using them any more & replaced with 50 - 80L tanks.
So building mains supply has plenty of capacity.
The garage owners have 3 phase to their garages, but none of us has an EV yet.
That usage is ridiculously low at under 11kwh/day.
Waste of money installing Solar (and especially NOT batteries)
When I was selling Solar I used to walk away from any house that was using less than 15kWh/day, absolute minimum.
Most houses I sold to were using 25-30kWh/day, with many in the 30-40kWh range, and one at 188kWh/ day. Yes,188!!
Customer had wife who LOVED Reverse cycle AC units which ran 24/7 in their huuuuuge home.
Obviously there was a huge roof space and I was told that I could use any part of the roof that wasn't visible from the road.
All other roofs faced the water and owner wasn't concerned about boaties viewing his array! Cheers
P.S Used to sell NOTHING under 6kws at around $20,000.
yobarr, I'll bet your 188kwh customer had some greenery growing under lights in the roof cavity...
Ah So, velly possible, but I know nutting, nutting! . Plenty money, Honey. Cheers
yobarr said
10:33 AM Dec 20, 2023
PeterInSa wrote:
Off Topic
Re (P.S Used to sell NOTHING under 6kws at around $20,000.)
Recently, I was involved (advice only) in an Adelaide Install of 12Kw Jinko Solar panels, 2.6kw x 2 Batteries, Inverter/Charger, Blackout facility, remove 2Kw solar system for $11,000
Can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion about quality, but have records of a GOOD quality 6kw solar system producing three (3) times as much electricity as an EL Cheapo 6kw Solar system on identical roofs, next door to each other.
GOOD Solar pays for itself very quickly while an El Cheapo installation often NEVER pays for itself.
MANY variables, but correct installation, not easiest installation, using quality cabling is critical. Cheers
dorian said
10:54 AM Dec 20, 2023
obarr wrote:
Can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion about quality, but have records of a GOOD quality 6kw solar system producing three (3) times as much electricity as an EL Cheapo 6kw Solar system on identical roofs, next door to each other.
This is just nonsense. If there really was such a difference, then it would be due to bad installation rather than inferior components.
yobarr said
12:18 PM Dec 20, 2023
dorian wrote:
Yobarr wrote:
Can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion about quality, but have records of a GOOD quality 6kw solar system producing three (3) times as much electricity as an EL Cheapo 6kw Solar system on identical roofs, next door to each other.
This is just nonsense. If there really was such a difference, then it would be due to bad installation rather than inferior components.
You clearly have NO idea, as all my comments are made in good faith, and come from many years in the Solar industry, but as I said earlier, I simply can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion.
Sideline commentary doesn't qualify. Sorry.
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 20th of December 2023 02:28:21 PM
Whenarewethere said
12:38 PM Dec 20, 2023
peter67 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
We live in two adjoining Units, so 2 lots of network charges, use about 4000 kWh a year in total maximum.
Most houses I sold to were using 25-30kWh/day, with many in the 30-40kWh range, and one at 188kWh/ day. Yes,188!!.
yobarr, I'll bet your 188kwh customer had some greenery growing under lights in the roof cavity...
Or a computer 3d render farm for 3d fly-throughs. Years ago had computers running 24/7 for weeks on end via my 3.0kVA UPS. Not fun in summer, then had to run the air conditioning.
yobarr said
02:28 PM Dec 20, 2023
dorian wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion about quality, but have records of a GOOD quality 6kw solar system producing three (3) times as much electricity as an EL Cheapo 6kw Solar system on identical roofs, next door to each other.
This is just nonsense. If there really was such a difference, then it would be due to bad installation rather than inferior components.
dorian said
03:51 PM Dec 20, 2023
yobarr wrote:
dorian wrote:
Yobarr wrote:
Can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion about quality, but have records of a GOOD quality 6kw solar system producing three (3) times as much electricity as an EL Cheapo 6kw Solar system on identical roofs, next door to each other.
This is just nonsense. If there really was such a difference, then it would be due to bad installation rather than inferior components.
You clearly have NO idea, as all my comments are made in good faith, and come from many years in the Solar industry, but as I said earlier, I simply can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion.
Sideline commentary doesn't qualify. Sorry.
You are a clueless, truck driving salesman. What you are suggesting is that your competitor's components are achieving an efficiency of 7% compared with your 21%. That's absurd. Please stop peddling your ignorant nonsense.
-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 20th of December 2023 04:18:52 PM
yobarr said
04:29 PM Dec 20, 2023
dorian wrote:
yobarr wrote:
dorian wrote:
Yobarr wrote:
Can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion about quality, but have records of a GOOD quality 6kw solar system producing three (3) times as much electricity as an EL Cheapo 6kw Solar system on identical roofs, next door to each other.
This is just nonsense. If there really was such a difference, then it would be due to bad installation rather than inferior components.
You clearly have NO idea, as all my comments are made in good faith, and come from many years in the Solar industry, but as I said earlier, I simply can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion.
Sideline commentary doesn't qualify. Sorry.
You are a clueless, truck driving salesman. What you are suggesting is that your competitor's components are achieving an efficiency of 7% compared with your 21%. That's absurd. Please stop peddling your ignorant nonsense.
You occasionally show signs of credibility, but in this case you are well out of your depth.
And there is no need to resort to personal insults.
Again I will say that I can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion, as I have better things to do than spend hours posting details. Cheers
@yobarr, you previously made this same ridiculous claim in another thread. At that time I pointed out several flaws in your calculations and methodology, but you declined to address them.
Let me say that even the worst eBay panels will achieve an efficiency of 16%. The difference between 16% and 21% is not a factor of 3. You don't need a calculator to see that.
TheHeaths said
04:59 PM Dec 20, 2023
I am astounded by some of the usage figures being banded about here.
I think we are above average users (when I talk to our circle) and we have our latest bill for the period mid August to mid November at 16kWh per day.
Thank goodness we dont have a usage, as many users are quoted as having, of 25-30kWh per day. At 188 kWh a day I would be looking for a street full of hangers on to my meter!
yobarr said
07:02 PM Dec 20, 2023
dorian wrote:
@yobarr, you previously made this same ridiculous claim in another thread. At that time I pointed out several flaws in your calculations and methodology, but you declined to address them.
Let me say that even the worst eBay panels will achieve an efficiency of 16%. The difference between 16% and 21% is not a factor of 3. You don't need a calculator to see that.
Again, I'm not going to take one of your many baits, but you clearly have NO understanding of the many variables in Solar.
And in view of your insults and unsupported waffle, you can be sure that I'm not going to bother enlightening you.
That's it from me, so you can save your energy for something that you do have an understanding of. Cheers
P.S. Many members have their own area of expertise, and we all can learn from listening to them, but this never will be achieved if their knowledge is constantly challenged.
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 20th of December 2023 07:51:52 PM
Just a couple of figures from my records. System is 6kw, with panels in 2 directions, slightly North East, and North West. Daily usage is shown, along with daily cost after contribution from Solar.
Photos show that a GOOD 6kw system will make around 38kWh on a normal day in these billing periods, one July-September and one November-January.
As can be seen, the system is cancelling the bill and providing a credit of $1.69 to $1.99 EACH Day.
Try that with El Cheapo. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 20th of December 2023 09:37:25 PM
I am astounded by some of the usage figures being banded about here.
I think we are above average users (when I talk to our circle) and we have our latest bill for the period mid August to mid November at 16kWh per day.
Thank goodness we dont have a usage, as many users are quoted as having, of 25-30kWh per day. At 188 kWh a day I would be looking for a street full of hangers on to my meter!
Hi Ian, believe me when I advise that 16kWh/day is very low usage, assuming a family home.
Sure, you'll get granny flats and blocks of flats that use little, and for them, Solar is pointless, and there are many properties that have gas cooking, heating and Hot water, so their usage obviously is minimal.
That's where the use of averages can be deceptive. Cheers
HUGE Family Home
Note the warning of a "Late payment fee" of $12.73. I doubt that the owner would be shaking in his shoes.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 21st of December 2023 04:45:17 PM
That figure looks extremely high even for a HUGE family home............more like a business.
A quick google shows an average for 5 or more @ 25.43 kwh per day.
I'd live in the dark if my bill was $4k for 3 months.........last bill $93.65 for 61 days.
Have you got a current bill, that was from 2016.
A Birds-Eye View of Average Power Consumption
Firstly, let's establish a general baseline. According to data published by the Australian Power Regulator in 2020 (due to be updated in 2023), the nationwide average for a household of three people is 18.71 kilowatt-hours per day (kWh/day). For a household of four people, this figure increases to 21.355 kWh/day, and for households with five or more people, the average power consumption rises to 25.43 kWh/day.
However, these figures provide a general overview and do not account for the different factors that can significantly affect your individual household's power use. There are various features, amenities and habits that may result in a substantially higher or lower average daily consumption for your household as compared to the baseline.
Also, the averages fluctuate between seasons. While the annual daily average energy consumption for a household of four in Sydney is 20.0340 kwh/day, youre likely to use more than that during energy-intensive seasons such as Winter (with an average of 23.34 kwh), and less in the temperate months of Spring (17.88 kWh/day) or Autumn (18.66 kWh/day).
-- Edited by Bobdown on Thursday 21st of December 2023 05:50:45 PM
Whenarewethere said
06:46 PM Dec 21, 2023
Our last summer bills (to this day on default pricing, still the cheapest for our kWh PA usage) for each our adjoining Units. These new meters (you can see the low kW meter numbers from new, 2016) were installed in 2016, almost to the day before each Unit would have to go through their own energy retailer (so you can calculate our usage from 2016 to last summer), a far more expensive system which the government said will create lower prices through competition (less BS administration charges which out strip everything else).
We replaced the mains line feed (oil packed paper insulation from the 1950s which was leaking everywhere, still in the ground cut off at either end), the timber pole once got struck by lightning. I was trying to get the Committee to approve replacement of mains line for 2 decades. Finally got there).
So now no fire hazard, & removed the black asbestos meter board & asbestos meter room lining while at it (getting there slowly!)
The last asbestos is the eaves & footings pillar height packing adjustment which the legal registered asbestos inspector never could see, NSW required asbestos report (as laymen will sort it out ourselves, plus document in quintuplicate!)
Too many people ticking boxes & no ability to wipe their own ....!
yobarr said
08:09 PM Dec 21, 2023
Bobdown wrote:
That figure looks extremely high even for a HUGE family home............more like a business.
A quick google shows an average for 5 or more @ 25.43 kwh per day.
I'd live in the dark if my bill was $4k for 3 months.........last bill $93.65 for 61 days.
Have you got a current bill, that was from 2016.
A Birds-Eye View of Average Power Consumption
Firstly, let's establish a general baseline. According to data published by the Australian Power Regulator in 2020 (due to be updated in 2023), the nationwide average for a household of three people is 18.71 kilowatt-hours per day (kWh/day). For a household of four people, this figure increases to 21.355 kWh/day, and for households with five or more people, the average power consumption rises to 25.43 kWh/day.
However, these figures provide a general overview and do not account for the different factors that can significantly affect your individual household's power use. There are various features, amenities and habits that may result in a substantially higher or lower average daily consumption for your household as compared to the baseline.
Also, the averages fluctuate between seasons. While the annual daily average energy consumption for a household of four in Sydney is 20.0340 kwh/day, youre likely to use more than that during energy-intensive seasons such as Winter (with an average of 23.34 kwh), and less in the temperate months of Spring (17.88 kWh/day) or Autumn (18.66 kWh/day).
Thanks Bob, for these figures, but I speak from experience and averages mean little. Vacant properties, houses with gas supply, parents working long hours and leaving kids at daycare until late and myriad other variables, such as AC use in summer, all cause distortion.
Because I predicted that someone would reply "But that's from 2016" I almost deleted the date, but the date matters little if the useage continues to be high.
Because I eventually got out of Solar I have no record of that customer's Solar savings, but the fact that he hasn't contacted me usually means that he is happy with his purchase.
NEVER have I had a customer call me complaining about my claims of production not being met, as always I provided estimated figures that were about 15% conservative.
However, around 5% of my customers would cancel their orders, having being conned in to buying El Cheapo after seeing TV ads, or talking to neighbours etc. Nobody who buys El Cheapo is ever likely to admit that it's producing less than predicted.
Often these same customers would contact me several months later, asking for my assistance because the El Cheapo had failed, and they could not get any help with warranty from the company that they had bought from. My response most often was a blunt "Talk to someone who cares", but there was one customer who I elected to help, eventually selling her one of my quality systems.
Cost her an absolute fortune as she had already used her Govt subsidy, which is available only once per NMI.
Buying a $6000 El Cheapo system ended up costing her well over $25,000 when it failed and she installed a quality 6kw system.
Expensive lesson, but little sympathy from me. Cheers
Bobdown said
11:33 PM Dec 21, 2023
Yobarr, was that a business account that you posted? Averages do mean a lot , but what you posted was 8 times the average and they obviously had the meter going off its face 24/7.
Some people don't know how to economize full stop.........and don't piss down my back about a big family as we had 8 in our house.
Cheers Bob
yobarr said
12:49 PM Dec 22, 2023
Bobdown wrote:
Yobarr, was that a business account that you posted? Averages do mean a lot , but what you posted was 8 times the average and they obviously had the meter going off its face 24/7.
Some people don't know how to economize full stop.........and don't piss down my back about a big family as we had 8 in our house.
Cheers Bob
Hi Bob, First I will address your comment, hghlighted above. Never have I felt any need to 'piss down' anybody's back, but to settle your nerves I advise that this was indeed a family home in a nice waterfront estate, the home being occupied by a married couple and their 3 teenage children, all university students. Several luxury and sports cars occupied the abundant garage space.
The several Reverse cycle AC units were huge, and I was advised that these ran 24/7.
As to your comment "Averages do mean a lot" I iterate that averages mean little. Example below:-
We have a street of 100 homes, 90 of these being little 2 bedroom cottages worth $100,000 each.
Total value $9,000,000.
Because of their splendid views the other 10 blocks have had $5,000,000 ($5 million) mansions built on them.
Total value $50 million.
So we now have a street with TOTAL house value of $59 million.
Divide this figure by 100 (number of houses) and we get average value of $590,000.
So the little 2 bedroom cottages suddenly have skyrocketed in value to $590,000? Yeah, right.
Averages often are used to placate those people who are unable to properly analyse figures for themselves, but seem to often succeed in causing the intended confusion. Cheers
P.S A GOOD QUALITY 30kw Solar system, used correctly, would almost eliminate that bill.
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 22nd of December 2023 12:53:42 PM
Bobdown said
02:07 PM Dec 22, 2023
Your sample of 100 homes is a bit less than my quoted Nationwide survey, but I take your point about the 2 bedroom cottages having a nice view of the mansions.
You always seem to go off track as this thread was about daily usage of 25 - 30 kwh per day, which apparently is the Aussie average,........ not about Solar panels.
Anyway 188kwh PER DAY is stupidly excessive....... not what your average caravan would use anyway.
yobarr said
02:48 PM Dec 22, 2023
Bobdown wrote:
Your sample of 100 homes is a bit less than my quoted Nationwide survey, but I take your point about the 2 bedroom cottages having a nice view of the mansions.
You always seem to go off track as this thread was about daily usage of 25-30kWH per day, which apparently is the Aussie average,........ not about Solar panels.
Anyway 188kwh PER DAY is stupidly excessive....... not what your average caravan would use anyway.
Sorry to have confused you, Bob, but the thread initially was about the cost of electricity.(Check your energy rates)
Presumably, most posters, like Stephen,would like to lower or totally get rid of their power bill, and the way to do this is to install a QUALITY Solar system of 6kw. Solar=free Electricity. Got it?
You say that if your power bill was $4000 for 3 months, you'd live in the dark.
At a bill of $93.65 for 61 days, I'd suggest that you already are living in the dark, as at least $50 of that would be supply charge, leaving $43 for usage charges, or 3kWh/day. (+/-).
In all my years in Solar, NEVER did I see usage that low, even for Granny Smith cooking on a wood-stove and heating her house and hot-water with a pot-belly stove. "Interesting", to say the least.Cheers
P.S Can you supply a copy of that bill, just out of interest. Cheers
Bobdown said
03:40 PM Dec 22, 2023
You still hijacked the thread with your super solar system, you have poo-pooed every other thing, think 79 series Toyo vs everything else.
I don't need to prove my bill, as we have a good system here in the West, cheaper power than the East, but for your peace of mind.
Usage 328 kwh @ 61 days @$0.28 per unit = $91.88 That is 5.37 kwh per day
Exported 690 kwh @ $0.7135 = $49.23 Add on your supply charge and take off the pensioners discount add GST = $93.65
No Aircon in Barker needed, 2 door fridge, beer fridge, water pump, chest freezer and so on. Live comfortable, 1 gas bottle lasts 22 months, no water bills, cheap phone and Shire rates.
We could live for a year on that $4k electric bill and still have beer money left over.
That's it from me, so please accept that the sun don't shine from your behind and have a good Xmas
Edit. I won't brag about last Januarys bill.........-$2.10 credit
-- Edited by Bobdown on Friday 22nd of December 2023 03:42:55 PM
yobarr said
05:33 PM Dec 22, 2023
Bobdown wrote:
You still hijacked the thread with your super solar system, you have poo-pooed every other thing, think 79 series Toyo vs everything else.
I don't need to prove my bill, as we have a good system here in the West, cheaper power than the East, but for your peace of mind.
Usage 328 kwh @ 61 days @$0.28 per unit = $91.88 That is 5.37 kwh per day
Exported 690 kwh @ $0.7135 = $49.23 Add on your supply charge and take off the pensioners discount add GST = $93.65
No Aircon in Barker needed, 2 door fridge, beer fridge, water pump, chest freezer and so on. Live comfortable, 1 gas bottle lasts 22 months, no water bills, cheap phone and Shire rates.
We could live for a year on that $4k electric bill and still have beer money left over.
That's it from me, so please accept that the sun don't shine from your behind and have a good Xmas
Edit. I won't brag about last Januarys bill.........-$2.10 credit.
Ah ha! Now it all becomes clearer as you hadn't previously mentioned that you have Solar.
Your usage figure of 5.37kwh/day means only that this is what you've used above what the Solar system has supplied to you, with the balance of that produced power being exported.
You are exporting only 11kwh/day so I'd guess that you have only a small system, maybe 4kw?
To calculate your daily usage you must deduct exported power from total production, and add that number to the 5.37kwh that you're buying from your energy supplier.
A good 4kw system should average about 18-20kwh/day, so your house is using, say, 9-10kwh/day PLUS the 5.37kwh that you're buying from your energy provider. Even so, 14-15kwh/day is super-low usage.
If you were staying where you now live I could give you all sorts of advice on how to make money from your Solar, but since you're moving on it would be pointless.
My 6kw system used to fully power my large 4 bedroom home, ACs etc, and still return $1000/year, tax free. Cheers
P.S Here is one of my bills showing Export of over 28kwh/day.. Real Solar, Real money.
TRY THAT WITH EL CHEAPO!
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 22nd of December 2023 06:17:28 PM
Today, just browsing online and I noted that the rates for my energy plan are now 7% lower than when I joined the current provider in August. So I called them and they gave me the new lower rates, backdated to apply from the start of current billing period.
So it is worthwhile checking. It's now in my diary to check every few months.
I am in the NSW Central Coast (Ausgrid). The current rate from Red Energy is 30.635c per kwh on their Living Energy Saver plan.
We get unstuck on the daily network charge as it is a high percentage of our overall bill.
That's a common thought, but care must also be taken not to let that charge distract you from the other charges on the bill. If you have Solar you must research FIT (Feed in tariff) and you should install a HWT (Hot water timer) and put the Hot water onto the T11 meter.
In NSW various offerings can be found by accessing WATTever, where comparisons are made. BUt it's critical that you are not sidetracked by by any single aspect of a bill.
The bill must be assessed in its entirity. Cheers
We live in two adjoining Units, so 2 lots of network charges, use about 4000kWh a year in total maximum. Electricity only, no gas in our building.
Have thought about removing one meter.
Actually 3 Units as we bought a third Unit & got the garage rewired to 1 of our Units. It would otherwise be a bit rude that tenants pay our garage electricity usage.
The common electricity in our building which includes the laundry, which we don't use as we have washing machine in our own Unit (so for 15 Units is about $800pa, of which we pay 3/15 mostly for others. Common lighting portion is $60pa)
Our Committee has discussed solar & battery. Also plan to install a common EV charger (wiring already factored in) with network charge facility for each user. We have 415 volt 200 amp per phase supply in our building for the original instantaneous HSW systems for every Unit, not many are using them any more & replaced with 50 - 80L tanks.
So building mains supply has plenty of capacity.
The garage owners have 3 phase to their garages, but none of us has an EV yet.
That usage is ridiculously low at under 11kwh/day.
Waste of money installing Solar (and especially NOT batteries)
When I was selling Solar I used to walk away from any house that was using less than 15kWh/day, absolute minimum.
Most houses I sold to were using 25-30kWh/day, with many in the 30-40kWh range, and one at 188kWh/ day. Yes,188!!
Customer had wife who LOVED Reverse cycle AC units which ran 24/7 in their huuuuuge home.
Obviously there was a huge roof space and I was told that I could use any part of the roof that wasn't visible from the road.
All other roofs faced the water and owner wasn't concerned about boaties viewing his array! Cheers
P.S Used to sell NOTHING under 6kws at around $20,000.
On the back of the Energy Australia bill. Supposedly the energy consumption in our area for 1 person is 7.75kWh/24hours, 2 people is 12.77kWh/24hours.
I know in our block of Units we are pretty much an average user on a per capita basis. Some are barely using anything. Not that we are trying that hard, but at times I do wonder how little energy some are using.
Re (P.S Used to sell NOTHING under 6kws at around $20,000.)
Recently, I was involved (advice only) in an Adelaide Install of 12Kw Jinko Solar panels, 2.6kw x 2 Batteries, Inverter/Charger, Blackout facility, remove 2Kw solar system for $11,000
yobarr, I'll bet your 188kwh customer had some greenery growing under lights in the roof cavity...
Ah So, velly possible, but I know nutting, nutting! . Plenty money, Honey. Cheers
Can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion about quality, but have records of a GOOD quality 6kw solar system producing three (3) times as much electricity as an EL Cheapo 6kw Solar system on identical roofs, next door to each other.
GOOD Solar pays for itself very quickly while an El Cheapo installation often NEVER pays for itself.
MANY variables, but correct installation, not easiest installation, using quality cabling is critical. Cheers
This is just nonsense. If there really was such a difference, then it would be due to bad installation rather than inferior components.
You clearly have NO idea, as all my comments are made in good faith, and come from many years in the Solar industry, but as I said earlier, I simply can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion.
Sideline commentary doesn't qualify. Sorry.
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 20th of December 2023 02:28:21 PM
Or a computer 3d render farm for 3d fly-throughs. Years ago had computers running 24/7 for weeks on end via my 3.0kVA UPS. Not fun in summer, then had to run the air conditioning.
You are a clueless, truck driving salesman. What you are suggesting is that your competitor's components are achieving an efficiency of 7% compared with your 21%. That's absurd. Please stop peddling your ignorant nonsense.
-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 20th of December 2023 04:18:52 PM
You occasionally show signs of credibility, but in this case you are well out of your depth.
And there is no need to resort to personal insults.
Again I will say that I can't be bothered getting involved in protracted discussion, as I have better things to do than spend hours posting details. Cheers
Let me say that even the worst eBay panels will achieve an efficiency of 16%. The difference between 16% and 21% is not a factor of 3. You don't need a calculator to see that.
I think we are above average users (when I talk to our circle) and we have our latest bill for the period mid August to mid November at 16kWh per day.
Thank goodness we dont have a usage, as many users are quoted as having, of 25-30kWh per day. At 188 kWh a day I would be looking for a street full of hangers on to my meter!
Again, I'm not going to take one of your many baits, but you clearly have NO understanding of the many variables in Solar.
And in view of your insults and unsupported waffle, you can be sure that I'm not going to bother enlightening you.
That's it from me, so you can save your energy for something that you do have an understanding of. Cheers
P.S. Many members have their own area of expertise, and we all can learn from listening to them, but this never will be achieved if their knowledge is constantly challenged.
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 20th of December 2023 07:51:52 PM
Just a couple of figures from my records. System is 6kw, with panels in 2 directions, slightly North East, and North West. Daily usage is shown, along with daily cost after contribution from Solar.
Photos show that a GOOD 6kw system will make around 38kWh on a normal day in these billing periods, one July-September and one November-January.
As can be seen, the system is cancelling the bill and providing a credit of $1.69 to $1.99 EACH Day.
Try that with El Cheapo. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 20th of December 2023 09:37:25 PM
Hi Ian, believe me when I advise that 16kWh/day is very low usage, assuming a family home.
Sure, you'll get granny flats and blocks of flats that use little, and for them, Solar is pointless, and there are many properties that have gas cooking, heating and Hot water, so their usage obviously is minimal.
That's where the use of averages can be deceptive. Cheers
HUGE Family Home
Note the warning of a "Late payment fee" of $12.73. I doubt that the owner would be shaking in his shoes.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 21st of December 2023 04:45:17 PM
That figure looks extremely high even for a HUGE family home............more like a business.
A quick google shows an average for 5 or more @ 25.43 kwh per day.
I'd live in the dark if my bill was $4k for 3 months.........last bill $93.65 for 61 days.
Have you got a current bill, that was from 2016.
A Birds-Eye View of Average Power Consumption
Firstly, let's establish a general baseline. According to data published by the Australian Power Regulator in 2020 (due to be updated in 2023), the nationwide average for a household of three people is 18.71 kilowatt-hours per day (kWh/day). For a household of four people, this figure increases to 21.355 kWh/day, and for households with five or more people, the average power consumption rises to 25.43 kWh/day.
However, these figures provide a general overview and do not account for the different factors that can significantly affect your individual household's power use. There are various features, amenities and habits that may result in a substantially higher or lower average daily consumption for your household as compared to the baseline.
Also, the averages fluctuate between seasons. While the annual daily average energy consumption for a household of four in Sydney is 20.0340 kwh/day, youre likely to use more than that during energy-intensive seasons such as Winter (with an average of 23.34 kwh), and less in the temperate months of Spring (17.88 kWh/day) or Autumn (18.66 kWh/day).
-- Edited by Bobdown on Thursday 21st of December 2023 05:50:45 PM
Our last summer bills (to this day on default pricing, still the cheapest for our kWh PA usage) for each our adjoining Units. These new meters (you can see the low kW meter numbers from new, 2016) were installed in 2016, almost to the day before each Unit would have to go through their own energy retailer (so you can calculate our usage from 2016 to last summer), a far more expensive system which the government said will create lower prices through competition (less BS administration charges which out strip everything else).
We replaced the mains line feed (oil packed paper insulation from the 1950s which was leaking everywhere, still in the ground cut off at either end), the timber pole once got struck by lightning. I was trying to get the Committee to approve replacement of mains line for 2 decades. Finally got there).
So now no fire hazard, & removed the black asbestos meter board & asbestos meter room lining while at it (getting there slowly!)
The last asbestos is the eaves & footings pillar height packing adjustment which the legal registered asbestos inspector never could see, NSW required asbestos report (as laymen will sort it out ourselves, plus document in quintuplicate!)
Too many people ticking boxes & no ability to wipe their own ....!
Thanks Bob, for these figures, but I speak from experience and averages mean little. Vacant properties, houses with gas supply, parents working long hours and leaving kids at daycare until late and myriad other variables, such as AC use in summer, all cause distortion.
Because I predicted that someone would reply "But that's from 2016" I almost deleted the date, but the date matters little if the useage continues to be high.
Because I eventually got out of Solar I have no record of that customer's Solar savings, but the fact that he hasn't contacted me usually means that he is happy with his purchase.
NEVER have I had a customer call me complaining about my claims of production not being met, as always I provided estimated figures that were about 15% conservative.
However, around 5% of my customers would cancel their orders, having being conned in to buying El Cheapo after seeing TV ads, or talking to neighbours etc. Nobody who buys El Cheapo is ever likely to admit that it's producing less than predicted.
Often these same customers would contact me several months later, asking for my assistance because the El Cheapo had failed, and they could not get any help with warranty from the company that they had bought from. My response most often was a blunt "Talk to someone who cares", but there was one customer who I elected to help, eventually selling her one of my quality systems.
Cost her an absolute fortune as she had already used her Govt subsidy, which is available only once per NMI.
Buying a $6000 El Cheapo system ended up costing her well over $25,000 when it failed and she installed a quality 6kw system.
Expensive lesson, but little sympathy from me. Cheers
Yobarr, was that a business account that you posted? Averages do mean a lot , but what you posted was 8 times the average and they obviously had the meter going off its face 24/7.
Some people don't know how to economize full stop.........and don't piss down my back about a big family as we had 8 in our house.
Cheers Bob
Hi Bob, First I will address your comment, hghlighted above. Never have I felt any need to 'piss down' anybody's back, but to settle your nerves I advise that this was indeed a family home in a nice waterfront estate, the home being occupied by a married couple and their 3 teenage children, all university students. Several luxury and sports cars occupied the abundant garage space.
The several Reverse cycle AC units were huge, and I was advised that these ran 24/7.
As to your comment "Averages do mean a lot" I iterate that averages mean little. Example below:-
We have a street of 100 homes, 90 of these being little 2 bedroom cottages worth $100,000 each.
Total value $9,000,000.
Because of their splendid views the other 10 blocks have had $5,000,000 ($5 million) mansions built on them.
Total value $50 million.
So we now have a street with TOTAL house value of $59 million.
Divide this figure by 100 (number of houses) and we get average value of $590,000.
So the little 2 bedroom cottages suddenly have skyrocketed in value to $590,000? Yeah, right.
Averages often are used to placate those people who are unable to properly analyse figures for themselves, but seem to often succeed in causing the intended confusion. Cheers
P.S A GOOD QUALITY 30kw Solar system, used correctly, would almost eliminate that bill.
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 22nd of December 2023 12:53:42 PM
Your sample of 100 homes is a bit less than my quoted Nationwide survey, but I take your point about the 2 bedroom cottages having a nice view of the mansions.
You always seem to go off track as this thread was about daily usage of 25 - 30 kwh per day, which apparently is the Aussie average,........ not about Solar panels.
Anyway 188kwh PER DAY is stupidly excessive.......
not what your average caravan would use anyway.
Sorry to have confused you, Bob, but the thread initially was about the cost of electricity.(Check your energy rates)
Presumably, most posters, like Stephen,would like to lower or totally get rid of their power bill, and the way to do this is to install a QUALITY Solar system of 6kw. Solar=free Electricity. Got it?
You say that if your power bill was $4000 for 3 months, you'd live in the dark.
At a bill of $93.65 for 61 days, I'd suggest that you already are living in the dark, as at least $50 of that would be supply charge, leaving $43 for usage charges, or 3kWh/day. (+/-).
In all my years in Solar, NEVER did I see usage that low, even for Granny Smith cooking on a wood-stove and heating her house and hot-water with a pot-belly stove. "Interesting", to say the least.Cheers
P.S Can you supply a copy of that bill, just out of interest. Cheers
You still hijacked the thread with your super solar system, you have poo-pooed every other thing, think 79 series Toyo vs everything else.
I don't need to prove my bill, as we have a good system here in the West, cheaper power than the East, but for your peace of mind.
Usage 328 kwh @ 61 days @$0.28 per unit = $91.88 That is 5.37 kwh per day
Exported 690 kwh @ $0.7135 = $49.23 Add on your supply charge and take off the pensioners discount add GST = $93.65
No Aircon in Barker needed, 2 door fridge, beer fridge, water pump, chest freezer and so on. Live comfortable, 1 gas bottle lasts 22 months, no water bills, cheap phone and Shire rates.
We could live for a year on that $4k electric bill and still have beer money left over.
That's it from me, so please accept that the sun don't shine from your behind and have a good Xmas
Edit. I won't brag about last Januarys bill.........-$2.10 credit
-- Edited by Bobdown on Friday 22nd of December 2023 03:42:55 PM
Ah ha! Now it all becomes clearer as you hadn't previously mentioned that you have Solar.
Your usage figure of 5.37kwh/day means only that this is what you've used above what the Solar system has supplied to you, with the balance of that produced power being exported.
You are exporting only 11kwh/day so I'd guess that you have only a small system, maybe 4kw?
To calculate your daily usage you must deduct exported power from total production, and add that number to the 5.37kwh that you're buying from your energy supplier.
A good 4kw system should average about 18-20kwh/day, so your house is using, say, 9-10kwh/day PLUS the 5.37kwh that you're buying from your energy provider. Even so, 14-15kwh/day is super-low usage.
If you were staying where you now live I could give you all sorts of advice on how to make money from your Solar, but since you're moving on it would be pointless.
My 6kw system used to fully power my large 4 bedroom home, ACs etc, and still return $1000/year, tax free. Cheers
P.S Here is one of my bills showing Export of over 28kwh/day.. Real Solar, Real money.
TRY THAT WITH EL CHEAPO!
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 22nd of December 2023 06:17:28 PM