Not so Green Stuff-wonder if this is mentioned at cop 28,2950
Craig1 said
02:08 PM Dec 3, 2023
That little yellow thing is a bulldozer.It is burying windmill blades used for green energy. Why?Because these blades need to be disposed of and there is presently no way to recycle them. Thats how green energy works!
Who knew? Maybe the people that make them knew. Why would they let that cat out of the bag, after all they are government subsidized with tax payer money. After all It's all about the money every time! Just like the oil industry powers every electric car.
Also politicians do not want those huge eye sores in their backyard.
Right now the average wind farm is about 150 turbines. Each wind turbine needs 80 gallons of oil as lubricant and we're not talking about vegetable oil, this is a PAO synthetic oil based on crude... 12,000 gallons of it. That oil needs to be replaced once a year.
It is estimated that a little over 3,800 turbines would be needed to power a city the size of New York... That's 304,000 gallons of refined oil for just one city.
Now you have to calculate every city across the nation, large and small, to find the grand total of yearly oil consumption from "clean" energy.
Where do you think all that oil is going to come from, the oil fairies? Well thanks to ? it now comes from our enemies in the Mideast.
Not to mention the fact that the large equipment needed to build these wind farms run on petroleum. As well as the equipment required for installation, service, maintenance, and eventual removal.
And just exactly how eco-friendly is wind energy anyway?
Each turbine requires a footprint of 1.5 acres, so a wind farm of 150 turbines needs 225 acres; In order to power a city the size of NYC you'd need 57,000 acres; and who knows the astronomical amount of land you would need to power the entire US. All of which would have to be clear-cut land because trees create a barrier & turbulence that interferes with the 20mph sustained wind velocity necessary for the turbine to work properly (also keep in mind that not all states are suitable for such sustained winds). Boy, cutting down all those trees is gonna anger a lot of green-loving tree-huggers.
Let's talk about disposal now.
The lifespan of a modern, top quality, highly efficient wind turbine is 20 years. After that, then what? What happens to those gigantic fiber composite blades?
They cannot economically be reused, refurbished, reduced, repurposed, or recycled so guess what..? It's off to special landfills they go.
And guess what else..? They're already running out of these special landfill spaces for the blades that have already exceeded their usefulness. Seriously! Those blades are anywhere from 120 ft. to over 200 ft. long and there are 3 per turbine. And that's with only 7% of the nation currently being supplied with wind energy. Just imagine if we had the other 93% of the nation on the wind grid... 20 years from now you'd have all those unusable blades with no place to put them... Then 20 years after that, and 20 years after that, and so on.
Hello there, how green is that?
I'm so glad the wind energy people are looking out for the world.
Please feel free to pass this along so that everyone is aware of the problems arising from "Wind power".............
-- Edited by Craig1 on Sunday 3rd of December 2023 02:09:59 PM
"a single 3MW wind turbine will produce over 330GWh of electricity over its lifetime. The same amount of power using coal would require 172,000 tonnes of coal to be burnt."
certainly makes you think.
Aussie1 said
04:36 PM Dec 3, 2023
Nuclear Power, only way to go, in my opinion.
Cassie63 said
06:55 PM Dec 3, 2023
Nuclear second that motion
Gundog said
07:22 PM Dec 3, 2023
BasilB wrote:
"a single 3MW wind turbine will produce over 330GWh of electricity over its lifetime.
Somehow I think these numbers are a bit rubbery, 330Gwh that lifetime is approx 20 years thats about 16.5Gwh per year, thats about 45Mwh per day, I could be wrong but that would mean it would have to be generating 3MW for 15 hours every day for 20 years
Maybe I'm totally wrong !
peter67 said
07:53 PM Dec 3, 2023
Craig, don't forget the many miles of traffic chaos when they truck them from the wharf...
dorian said
04:27 AM Dec 4, 2023
This wind farm is producing the equivalent of 8 hours of full output per turbine per day:
I think we're sprialling out of control at a very fast rate of knots. Our poor great grandchildren .
BasilB said
02:34 PM Dec 4, 2023
Gundog wrote:
BasilB wrote:
"a single 3MW wind turbine will produce over 330GWh of electricity over its lifetime.
Somehow I think these numbers are a bit rubbery, 330Gwh that lifetime is approx 20 years thats about 16.5Gwh per year, thats about 45Mwh per day, I could be wrong but that would mean it would have to be generating 3MW for 15 hours every day for 20 years
"The expected lifetime for a wind turbine is up to 30 years. Ten Mile Lagoon in Western Australia was Australia's first commercial wind farm of note having been established in 1993.
It is still operating now and could keep operating for a number of years. The nine turbines produce just over 2MW. Modern wind turbines start at 3MW per individual turbine."
So the actual lifetime is 30+ years.
As for a coal-fired power station ...
"The average lifespan of a coal-fired power station is 29 years. I rarely hear people ask what we will do with the old power station at the end of its life."
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 5th of December 2023 03:31:27 AM
peter67 said
10:53 AM Dec 5, 2023
Well we've already seen in Craig's post picture what they are doing with turbine blades, and why sneakily cut them up and bury them in the bush when you could transport them to a controlled landfill site in the cities?...scared the zealot green energy followers would actually see their mistaken windfarm ideology passing their own front doors???
That picture should have past greenies spinning in their graves.
Lets not forget that EV batteries and solar panels are not a commercially recyclable proposition for ANY company, do I hear the words GOVERNMENT SUSIDIES again?? this is on top of the collapse of soft plastic recycling in Aussie, that's all going in to landfill as well. As yobarr would say, NO cheers here.
Are We Lost said
11:41 AM Dec 5, 2023
dorian wrote:
"The average lifespan of a coal-fired power station is 29 years.
Eraring is Australia's largest power station. From Origin Energy's website:
"In February 2022 Origin notified the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) of the potential early retirement of Eraring in August 2025"
It was commissioned in 1982 with all four coal powered generators coming online in 1984. So it may be shut down early, some 43 years after commissioning.
A quick look at the list of power stations shows that 29 year lifespan to be totally false. In fact the larger ones are typically over 50 years.
A rubbish thread in more ways than one. A pretty serious inaccurate dealing with the facts as In the US (and will follow in other countries) Veolia are currently recycling blades, ( contrary to the op), grinding them down to produce a significant strengthening additive in concrete. A central depot has been set up to handle the blades.
dorian said
12:14 PM Dec 5, 2023
Yallourn's power stations were built before the climate crisis, so the decommissioning decisions would have been based on purely engineering factors. Admittedly they would be old technology, but the life varies between 28 and 39 years.
The earlier Wikipedia article states that in 2017 75% of Australia's power stations were operating beyond their design life. What is to say that wind farms cannot achieve similar longevity?
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 5th of December 2023 02:07:50 PM
Are We Lost said
12:41 PM Dec 5, 2023
Dorian you singled out Yallourn, cherrypicking to justify your point. And even then, more than 29 year lives. But those decommissioned ones were all at least 60 year old technology and small in scale. The current one, Yallourn W has been in operation for 50 years. Another 5 years to go if it does not get extended.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Tuesday 5th of December 2023 12:43:04 PM
Accounting for up to 1.5% of global electricity use, data centers are fueling the climate crisis. Currently, there are estimated to be more than 8,000 data centers worldwide, with more being planned every year to power the rise in global digital services.
While there have been efforts to reduce their carbon footprint using wind energy, a new German-based project takes it one step further.
WindCORES, a subsidiary of German renewable electricity company WestfalenWIND, operates data centers inside wind turbines located in a wind park in the Paderborn district in western Germany, which the company says makes the centers almost carbon neutral.
According to Asim Hussain, chairperson and executive director of the non-profit Green Software Foundation, the windCORES concept is "quite clever" because it battles one of the biggest issues in renewable energy: curtailment.
"When there's more electricity being generated than people are consuming, you can't store it, there's no big batteries -- so you just have to throw it away; that's curtailment," he explained. "Now, it doesn't matter even if they're [windCORES] told to throw electricity away [by the electricity grid], they've got their own data center to power"
peter67 said
11:34 AM Dec 6, 2023
The Travelling Dillberries wrote:
A rubbish thread in more ways than one. A pretty serious inaccurate dealing with the facts as In the US (and will follow in other countries) Veolia are currently recycling blades, ( contrary to the op), grinding them down to produce a significant strengthening additive in concrete. A central depot has been set up to handle the blades.
Out of interest I looked at Veolia US website and Business Insider who reviewed their operation. The turbine blade manufacturer, GE Renewable Energy (US Government subsidies) PAYS Veolia to recycle the blades as FUEL for the limestone kilns used in concrete manufacturing plants. Veolia then PAYS the cement manufacturing companies to use it as fuel in their kilns saying it burns cleaner then coal, no percentage cleaner is stated. If there was a big gain in cleaner than coal me thinks they would be trumpeting that. I say again, it is not a commercially viable business.
And such safe working practices, goes with the dump yard I guess. Wind would blow the waste away. Operator contracts " Bladeosous " as well as the looker on.
Gundog said
01:59 PM Dec 6, 2023
Craig1 wrote:
And such safe working practices, goes with the dump yard I guess. Wind would blow the waste away. Operator contracts " Bladeosous " as well as the looker on.
SWP's here and unions would not allow this to occur.
Alas Far Nth Qld has piles of used turbine baldes just chucked in the bush
A rubbish thread in more ways than one. A pretty serious inaccurate dealing with the facts as In the US (and will follow in other countries) Veolia are currently recycling blades, ( contrary to the op), grinding them down to produce a significant strengthening additive in concrete. A central depot has been set up to handle the blades.
Out of interest I looked at Veolia US website and Business Insider who reviewed their operation. The turbine blade manufacturer, GE Renewable Energy (US Government subsidies) PAYS Veolia to recycle the blades as FUEL for the limestone kilns used in concrete manufacturing plants. Veolia then PAYS the cement manufacturing companies to use it as fuel in their kilns saying it burns cleaner then coal, no percentage cleaner is stated. If there was a big gain in cleaner than coal me thinks they would be trumpeting that. I say again, it is not a commercially viable business.
I include a picture of their "central depot"
I do believe that asbestos was also used as a strengthening agent in concrete and we know were that went, could this be the next big problem after manufactured stone drops out of the head lines? I do notice that safety(PPE) doesn't rate very high in the photo, so if they are not concerned about their own health and safety i would not be thinking that they would be worried about anyone else's either.
That little yellow thing is a bulldozer. It is burying windmill blades used for green energy. Why? Because these blades need to be disposed of and there is presently no way to recycle them. Thats how green energy works!
Who knew? Maybe the people that make them knew. Why would they let that cat out of the bag, after all they are government subsidized with tax payer money. After all It's all about the money every time! Just like the oil industry powers every electric car.
Also politicians do not want those huge eye sores in their backyard.
Right now the average wind farm is about 150 turbines. Each wind turbine needs 80 gallons of oil as lubricant and we're not talking about vegetable oil, this is a PAO synthetic oil based on crude... 12,000 gallons of it. That oil needs to be replaced once a year.
It is estimated that a little over 3,800 turbines would be needed to power a city the size of New York... That's 304,000 gallons of refined oil for just one city.
Now you have to calculate every city across the nation, large and small, to find the grand total of yearly oil consumption from "clean" energy.
Where do you think all that oil is going to come from, the oil fairies? Well thanks to ? it now comes from our enemies in the Mideast.
Not to mention the fact that the large equipment needed to build these wind farms run on petroleum. As well as the equipment required for installation, service, maintenance, and eventual removal.
And just exactly how eco-friendly is wind energy anyway?
Each turbine requires a footprint of 1.5 acres, so a wind farm of 150 turbines needs 225 acres; In order to power a city the size of NYC you'd need 57,000 acres; and who knows the astronomical amount of land you would need to power the entire US. All of which would have to be clear-cut land because trees create a barrier & turbulence that interferes with the 20mph sustained wind velocity necessary for the turbine to work properly (also keep in mind that not all states are suitable for such sustained winds). Boy, cutting down all those trees is gonna anger a lot of green-loving tree-huggers.
Let's talk about disposal now.
The lifespan of a modern, top quality, highly efficient wind turbine is 20 years. After that, then what? What happens to those gigantic fiber composite blades?
They cannot economically be reused, refurbished, reduced, repurposed, or recycled so guess what..? It's off to special landfills they go.
And guess what else..? They're already running out of these special landfill spaces for the blades that have already exceeded their usefulness. Seriously! Those blades are anywhere from 120 ft. to over 200 ft. long and there are 3 per turbine. And that's with only 7% of the nation currently being supplied with wind energy. Just imagine if we had the other 93% of the nation on the wind grid... 20 years from now you'd have all those unusable blades with no place to put them... Then 20 years after that, and 20 years after that, and so on.
Hello there, how green is that?
I'm so glad the wind energy people are looking out for the world.
Please feel free to pass this along so that everyone is aware of the problems arising from "Wind power".............
-- Edited by Craig1 on Sunday 3rd of December 2023 02:09:59 PM
mtmercerwindfarm.com.au/
I think we're sprialling out of control at a very fast rate of knots. Our poor great grandchildren .
he did start with a 30 year lifespan.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7875513/the-ultimate-recycling-turning-turbine-blades-into-a-tasty-treat/
"The expected lifetime for a wind turbine is up to 30 years. Ten Mile Lagoon in Western Australia was Australia's first commercial wind farm of note having been established in 1993.
It is still operating now and could keep operating for a number of years. The nine turbines produce just over 2MW. Modern wind turbines start at 3MW per individual turbine."
So the actual lifetime is 30+ years.
As for a coal-fired power station ...
"The average lifespan of a coal-fired power station is 29 years. I rarely hear people ask what we will do with the old power station at the end of its life."
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 5th of December 2023 03:31:27 AM
That picture should have past greenies spinning in their graves.
Lets not forget that EV batteries and solar panels are not a commercially recyclable proposition for ANY company, do I hear the words GOVERNMENT SUSIDIES again?? this is on top of the collapse of soft plastic recycling in Aussie, that's all going in to landfill as well. As yobarr would say, NO cheers here.
Eraring is Australia's largest power station. From Origin Energy's website:
"In February 2022 Origin notified the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) of the potential early retirement of Eraring in August 2025"
It was commissioned in 1982 with all four coal powered generators coming online in 1984. So it may be shut down early, some 43 years after commissioning.
A quick look at the list of power stations shows that 29 year lifespan to be totally false. In fact the larger ones are typically over 50 years.
Wkipedia: Australia's power stations
A rubbish thread in more ways than one. A pretty serious inaccurate dealing with the facts as In the US (and will follow in other countries) Veolia are currently recycling blades, ( contrary to the op), grinding them down to produce a significant strengthening additive in concrete. A central depot has been set up to handle the blades.
Yallourn's power stations were built before the climate crisis, so the decommissioning decisions would have been based on purely engineering factors. Admittedly they would be old technology, but the life varies between 28 and 39 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yallourn_Power_Station
Commission date
Decommission date
The earlier Wikipedia article states that in 2017 75% of Australia's power stations were operating beyond their design life. What is to say that wind farms cannot achieve similar longevity?
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 5th of December 2023 02:07:50 PM
Dorian you singled out Yallourn, cherrypicking to justify your point. And even then, more than 29 year lives. But those decommissioned ones were all at least 60 year old technology and small in scale. The current one, Yallourn W has been in operation for 50 years. Another 5 years to go if it does not get extended.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Tuesday 5th of December 2023 12:43:04 PM
This project cuts emissions by putting data centres inside wind turbines:
https://edition.cnn.com/world/windcores-data-center-wind-turbines-climate-scn-spc-c2e/index.html
Accounting for up to 1.5% of global electricity use, data centers are fueling the climate crisis. Currently, there are estimated to be more than 8,000 data centers worldwide, with more being planned every year to power the rise in global digital services.
While there have been efforts to reduce their carbon footprint using wind energy, a new German-based project takes it one step further.
WindCORES, a subsidiary of German renewable electricity company WestfalenWIND, operates data centers inside wind turbines located in a wind park in the Paderborn district in western Germany, which the company says makes the centers almost carbon neutral.
According to Asim Hussain, chairperson and executive director of the non-profit Green Software Foundation, the windCORES concept is "quite clever" because it battles one of the biggest issues in renewable energy: curtailment.
"When there's more electricity being generated than people are consuming, you can't store it, there's no big batteries -- so you just have to throw it away; that's curtailment," he explained. "Now, it doesn't matter even if they're [windCORES] told to throw electricity away [by the electricity grid], they've got their own data center to power"
Out of interest I looked at Veolia US website and Business Insider who reviewed their operation. The turbine blade manufacturer, GE Renewable Energy (US Government subsidies) PAYS Veolia to recycle the blades as FUEL for the limestone kilns used in concrete manufacturing plants. Veolia then PAYS the cement manufacturing companies to use it as fuel in their kilns saying it burns cleaner then coal, no percentage cleaner is stated. If there was a big gain in cleaner than coal me thinks they would be trumpeting that. I say again, it is not a commercially viable business.
I include a picture of their "central depot"
SWP's here and unions would not allow this to occur.
Alas Far Nth Qld has piles of used turbine baldes just chucked in the bush
I do believe that asbestos was also used as a strengthening agent in concrete and we know were that went, could this be the next big problem after manufactured stone drops out of the head lines? I do notice that safety(PPE) doesn't rate very high in the photo, so if they are not concerned about their own health and safety i would not be thinking that they would be worried about anyone else's either.