Charging your EV in the basement of multi story apartment buildings ??
peter67 said
08:33 AM Sep 25, 2023
News this morning that of all new car sales figures EV's make up 8% in NSW and Victoria, 20% in the ACT.
A recent enquiry in the ACT Legislative Assembly recommended one-off grants be made available to body corporates to investigate upgraded wiring retrofits. Really? Who thinks it is good practice to charge EV vehicles in multi story building basements?
Whenarewethere said
09:20 AM Sep 25, 2023
In 2016 we put 3 phase to our garages. Also did preliminary work for a charger for residents without a garage.
We have factored funding into our 10 year maintenance plan.
To date no one in our block of units has an EV, but can go ahead when needed.
Mariner30 said
10:02 AM Sep 25, 2023
peter67 wrote:
News this morning that of all new car sales figures EV's make up 8% in NSW and Victoria, 20% in the ACT.
A recent enquiry in the ACT Legislative Assembly recommended one-off grants be made available to body corporates to investigate upgraded wiring retrofits. Really? Who thinks it is good practice to charge EV vehicles in multi story building basements?
They are being installed in multi level carparks as well.
Go to ya office job in any city, plug your ev jalopy in and when you you finish work it's got a full battery...
Sounds great...
What could go wrong??
deverall11 said
10:11 AM Sep 25, 2023
There's more out of these setups there then you realise. Some are keeping up.
Bicyclecamper said
12:48 PM Sep 25, 2023
Fires are the problem, Their is no way I would live in a multistory building, that charged EV's UNLESS they had a fire suppression system down stairs, not just sprinklers, but a foam supression system, and you can bet they do not have this, or even state and local government building reg's to demand it.
watsea said
01:47 PM Sep 25, 2023
deverall11 wrote:
There's more out of these setups there then you realise. Some are keeping up.
I notice some shopping centre carparks have charging stations, and I understand often these are operated by a provider that gets money from the EV driver who normally pays via a phone app.
I wonder if, say, a corporation had a carpark on its premises and if staff EVs were parked and could be charged, it would be interesting how they could work out how the user was expected to pay.
Whenarewethere said
02:25 PM Sep 25, 2023
There are credit card EV chargers. So not an issue as far as who pays. You probably key in a larger dollar value & the difference is refunded. Only a guess.
The biggest problem with blocks of units is the mains capacity into the building. A lot of blocks are at their limit so would need a mains feed upgrade. It's not difficult stuff.
We already had 415v 200amps 3 phase into the block. We did actually do new mains feed wiring as the old wiring was 70 years old. We can easily put in a credit card charger. About 25 metres run to the switch board & conduit we have already done so we don't have to dig up concrete again.
Are We Lost said
02:52 PM Sep 25, 2023
The problem with shared meters is that many people lack consideration for others with their actions. I can imagine driving into the carpark after work desperately needing a charge and the space/spaces are already occupied. So you go inside, have dinner. Three hours later you go down and find the same car is still there. Apparently the owner is not too fussed about giving others the opportunity. Or other car(s) are now charging and you now realise for you to charge, you need to come back again, and then again later to vacate the spot. It's going to be a late night.
Of course, there are solutions. Perhaps a booking system that it won't start if you have not requested that time slot. Or a time based fee for parking there as well as the usage charge.
Whenarewethere said
03:19 PM Sep 25, 2023
The charger keeps billing you. At incentive to move.
At have in ground parking monitoring like Hobart. 1 second past your time limit & you get a fine.
deverall11 said
04:48 PM Sep 25, 2023
Bicyclecamper wrote:
Fires are the problem, Their is no way I would live in a multistory building, that charged EV's UNLESS they had a fire suppression system down stairs, not just sprinklers, but a foam supression system, and you can bet they do not have this, or even state and local government building reg's to demand it.
Fires are a thing of the past. Initially a flawed design in the battery setup has now been addressed
and mitigated.
You may want to research this before making wild comment.
Whenarewethere said
05:30 PM Sep 25, 2023
The follow is UK fires 2011 to 2014. UK has about 2.5 x Australia's population. How many EV fires has Australia had, 2010 to 2023, four, & one was arson.
The proportion of fires caused by faulty appliances in the UK between January 2011 and March 2014, based on UK government fire data was as follows (note: the number of fires includes where the brand was unknown):
washing machines (14%, 1723 fires)
tumble dryers (12%, 1456 fires)
dishwashers (11%, 1324 fires)
cookers; (9%, 1080 fires)
Fridge-freezer/fridge/freezer (7%, 861 fires)
central heating (5%, 606 fires)
microwave (4%, 427 fires)
toaster/grill (4%, 495 fires)
TV (3%, 372 fires)
electric blanket (2%, 236 fires)
washer dryers (2%, 225)
irons (1%, 92 fires)
Are We Lost said
05:54 PM Sep 25, 2023
deverall11 wrote:
Fires are a thing of the past. Initially a flawed design in the battery setup has now been addressed and mitigated.
You may want to research this before making wild comment.
Are you sure about that? It's more about severity of the fire than frequency.
Fires are the problem, Their is no way I would live in a multistory building, that charged EV's UNLESS they had a fire suppression system down stairs, not just sprinklers, but a foam supression system, and you can bet they do not have this, or even state and local government building reg's to demand it.
Fires are a thing of the past. Initially a flawed design in the battery setup has now been addressed
and mitigated.
You may want to research this before making wild comment.
Your an idiot deveral. When you have done 10 years fighting vehicle and other fires, like me, then you can tell me something. Just recently their was an EV vehicle fire on a public charger behind a fire station locally. Luckily the fire station is right beside it, but it took 6 hours and a hell of a lot of water to put it out . It was a as 2023 Hyundai, that burnt to a crisp. EV fires are coming to those multi story car parks and apartments, just what this space.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 25th of September 2023 07:09:35 PM
Gundog said
08:18 AM Sep 26, 2023
watsea wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
There's more out of these setups there then you realise. Some are keeping up.
I notice some shopping centre carparks have charging stations, and I understand often these are operated by a provider that gets money from the EV driver who normally pays via a phone app.
I wonder if, say, a corporation had a carpark on its premises and if staff EVs were parked and could be charged, it would be interesting how they could work out how the user was expected to pay.
Noticed at the Big Fish shopping complex north of Caboolture has 2 parking bays for EV's to charge whilst shopping, alas both bays were being used but were not being charged.
So are these parking bays designated for EV's is charging optional.
Dick0 said
10:00 AM Sep 26, 2023
I may be wrong but I believe it is the Lithium Ion batteries that are the problem. Lithium Phosphate don't have the fire issue. Lithium Ion batteries are used in EV's.
deverall11 said
01:21 PM Sep 26, 2023
Bicyclecamper wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
Bicyclecamper wrote:
....
Your an idiot deveral. When you have done 10 years fighting vehicle and other fires, like me, then you can tell me something. Just recently their was an EV vehicle fire on a public charger behind a fire station locally. Luckily the fire station is right beside it, but it took 6 hours and a hell of a lot of water to put it out . It was a as 2023 Hyundai, that burnt to a crisp. EV fires are coming to those multi story car parks and apartments, just what this space.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 25th of September 2023 07:09:35 PM
So do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on. About as credible as your record breaking trip to Byron Bay.
Mariner30 said
01:56 PM Sep 26, 2023
deverall11 wrote:
So do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on. About as credible as your record breaking trip to Byron Bay.
Anybody who VOLUNTEERS to risk their own life to save the lives of other folk and or their property....for no financial reward...and undertakes the necessary training...often at the expense of their own family time should get a hundred thousand medals...not the scorn and or abuse...like yours... that comes from arm chair experts....after the event.
You sound like a petulant ten year old.
Gundog said
04:49 PM Sep 26, 2023
EV batteries are a problem, along with solar panels and batteries in buildings are a danger fire fighters, thankfully wind turbines don't bring the same risk, just stand well back and let them self destruct.
Eaglemax said
04:52 PM Sep 28, 2023
Mariner30 wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
So do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on. About as credible as your record breaking trip to Byron Bay.
Anybody who VOLUNTEERS to risk their own life to save the lives of other folk and or their property....for no financial reward...and undertakes the necessary training...often at the expense of their own family time should get a hundred thousand medals...not the scorn and or abuse...like yours... that comes from arm chair experts....after the event.
You sound like a petulant ten year old.
OMG, there's another rock being thrown. How do you know if Deverall11 hasnt been a firefighter or any other credible profession? A discussion between two and along comes the almighty Mariner. BTW I'll have my hundred thousand medals please. Tony
Eaglemax said
04:54 PM Sep 28, 2023
Gundog wrote:
EV batteries are a problem, along with solar panels and batteries in buildings are a danger fire fighters, thankfully wind turbines don't bring the same risk, just stand well back and let them self destruct.
Except the two guys stuck on top of a turbine when the turbine caught fire. They hugged then one jumped, the other ran downstairs but died. But I get your point
Tony
yobarr said
06:00 PM Sep 28, 2023
peter67 wrote:
News this morning that of all new car sales figures EV's make up 8% in NSW and Victoria, 20% in the ACT.
A recent enquiry in the ACT Legislative Assembly recommended one-off grants be made available to body corporates to investigate upgraded wiring retrofits. Really? Who thinks it is good practice to charge EV vehicles in multi story building basements?
Without immediately answering your question, Peter, I can't help wondering if the fact that 20% of new vehicles in ACT, and only 8% of vehicles in NSW and Vic, are electric means that people in ACT are 2 1/2 times more stupid than those in the other 2 states? When these clowns finally wake up that if we struggle to produce enough electricity even now, how do they propose to charge these vehicles?
And the constant yap about closing even more coal-powered stations, which will only worsen things, is unbelievable. Derrrr.
If there were more reputable Solar companies that sold QUALITY systems to totally eliminate power bills we all would be better off, but these El Cheapo 6kw systems that abound won't power the Dog kennel. Sorry Fido. Cheers
P.S Regarding your question about charging EV vehicles in multi-storey building basements, I'll just say that I'm glad I'm permanently on the road!
Mariner30 said
06:10 PM Sep 28, 2023
Eaglemax wrote:
Mariner30 wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
So do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on. About as credible as your record breaking trip to Byron Bay.
Anybody who VOLUNTEERS to risk their own life to save the lives of other folk and or their property....for no financial reward...and undertakes the necessary training...often at the expense of their own family time should get a hundred thousand medals...not the scorn and or abuse...like yours... that comes from arm chair experts....after the event.
You sound like a petulant ten year old.
OMG, there's another rock being thrown. How do you know if Deverall11 hasnt been a firefighter or any other credible profession? A discussion between two and along comes the almighty Mariner. BTW I'll have my hundred thousand medals please. Tony
I see your feelings have been hurt by the discussion in another thread.
You look like a internet troll.
Get over yourself.
peter67 said
06:58 PM Sep 28, 2023
Dick0 wrote:
I may be wrong but I believe it is the Lithium Ion batteries that are the problem. Lithium Phosphate don't have the fire issue. Lithium Ion batteries are used in EV's.
Dicko, the tesla storage battery fire that's just burnt itself out in QLD is a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery.
News this morning that of all new car sales figures EV's make up 8% in NSW and Victoria, 20% in the ACT.
A recent enquiry in the ACT Legislative Assembly recommended one-off grants be made available to body corporates to investigate upgraded wiring retrofits. Really? Who thinks it is good practice to charge EV vehicles in multi story building basements?
In 2016 we put 3 phase to our garages. Also did preliminary work for a charger for residents without a garage.
We have factored funding into our 10 year maintenance plan.
To date no one in our block of units has an EV, but can go ahead when needed.
They are being installed in multi level carparks as well.
Go to ya office job in any city, plug your ev jalopy in and when you you finish work it's got a full battery...
Sounds great...
What could go wrong??
I notice some shopping centre carparks have charging stations, and I understand often these are operated by a provider that gets money from the EV driver who normally pays via a phone app.
I wonder if, say, a corporation had a carpark on its premises and if staff EVs were parked and could be charged, it would be interesting how they could work out how the user was expected to pay.
There are credit card EV chargers. So not an issue as far as who pays. You probably key in a larger dollar value & the difference is refunded. Only a guess.
The biggest problem with blocks of units is the mains capacity into the building. A lot of blocks are at their limit so would need a mains feed upgrade. It's not difficult stuff.
We already had 415v 200amps 3 phase into the block. We did actually do new mains feed wiring as the old wiring was 70 years old. We can easily put in a credit card charger. About 25 metres run to the switch board & conduit we have already done so we don't have to dig up concrete again.
Of course, there are solutions. Perhaps a booking system that it won't start if you have not requested that time slot. Or a time based fee for parking there as well as the usage charge.
The charger keeps billing you. At incentive to move.
At have in ground parking monitoring like Hobart. 1 second past your time limit & you get a fine.
Fires are a thing of the past. Initially a flawed design in the battery setup has now been addressed
and mitigated.
You may want to research this before making wild comment.
The follow is UK fires 2011 to 2014. UK has about 2.5 x Australia's population. How many EV fires has Australia had, 2010 to 2023, four, & one was arson.
The proportion of fires caused by faulty appliances in the UK between January 2011 and March 2014, based on UK government fire data was as follows (note: the number of fires includes where the brand was unknown):
washing machines (14%, 1723 fires)
tumble dryers (12%, 1456 fires)
dishwashers (11%, 1324 fires)
cookers; (9%, 1080 fires)
Fridge-freezer/fridge/freezer (7%, 861 fires)
central heating (5%, 606 fires)
microwave (4%, 427 fires)
toaster/grill (4%, 495 fires)
TV (3%, 372 fires)
electric blanket (2%, 236 fires)
washer dryers (2%, 225)
irons (1%, 92 fires)
Are you sure about that? It's more about severity of the fire than frequency.
(link) Firefighters Union warns government on difficulty of putting out EV fires and the noxious gases released.
(link to PDF) EV Council of Australia document on the EV fire risk Even the industry warns about the significant differences in risk due to difficulty to extinguish and noxious gases .. not more common but more severe.
You may want to research this before making wild comment.
But, as I have often said, they are coming. We need to adapt and find solutions.
Your an idiot deveral. When you have done 10 years fighting vehicle and other fires, like me, then you can tell me something. Just recently their was an EV vehicle fire on a public charger behind a fire station locally. Luckily the fire station is right beside it, but it took 6 hours and a hell of a lot of water to put it out . It was a as 2023 Hyundai, that burnt to a crisp. EV fires are coming to those multi story car parks and apartments, just what this space.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 25th of September 2023 07:09:35 PM
Noticed at the Big Fish shopping complex north of Caboolture has 2 parking bays for EV's to charge whilst shopping, alas both bays were being used but were not being charged.
So are these parking bays designated for EV's is charging optional.
I may be wrong but I believe it is the Lithium Ion batteries that are the problem. Lithium Phosphate don't have the fire issue. Lithium Ion batteries are used in EV's.
So do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on. About as credible as your record breaking trip to Byron Bay.
Anybody who VOLUNTEERS to risk their own life to save the lives of other folk and or their property....for no financial reward...and undertakes the necessary training...often at the expense of their own family time should get a hundred thousand medals...not the scorn and or abuse...like yours... that comes from arm chair experts....after the event.
You sound like a petulant ten year old.
EV batteries are a problem, along with solar panels and batteries in buildings are a danger fire fighters, thankfully wind turbines don't bring the same risk, just stand well back and let them self destruct.
OMG, there's another rock being thrown. How do you know if Deverall11 hasnt been a firefighter or any other credible profession? A discussion between two and along comes the almighty Mariner. BTW I'll have my hundred thousand medals please. Tony
Except the two guys stuck on top of a turbine when the turbine caught fire. They hugged then one jumped, the other ran downstairs but died. But I get your point
Tony
Without immediately answering your question, Peter, I can't help wondering if the fact that 20% of new vehicles in ACT, and only 8% of vehicles in NSW and Vic, are electric means that people in ACT are 2 1/2 times more stupid than those in the other 2 states?
When these clowns finally wake up that if we struggle to produce enough electricity even now, how do they propose to charge these vehicles?
And the constant yap about closing even more coal-powered stations, which will only worsen things, is unbelievable. Derrrr.
If there were more reputable Solar companies that sold QUALITY systems to totally eliminate power bills we all would be better off, but these El Cheapo 6kw systems that abound won't power the Dog kennel. Sorry Fido. Cheers
P.S Regarding your question about charging EV vehicles in multi-storey building basements, I'll just say that I'm glad I'm permanently on the road!
I see your feelings have been hurt by the discussion in another thread.
You look like a internet troll.
Get over yourself.
Dicko, the tesla storage battery fire that's just burnt itself out in QLD is a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery.