Recent truckies paper had this cartoon, but apparently it has not been seen by many, judging by some of the overloaded cars and vans today travelling on the Pacific Highway.
Nissan Patrol with towbar near ground, headlights skyward and rear of van at least 300mm higher than front. Spare me!
Whether the drivers are simply irresponsible,or just plain ignorant, I do not know, but some of these monstrosities are beyond a joke.
If car drivers were to read these FREE publications they would find all sorts of helpful information. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 07:58:31 AM
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 08:19:37 AM
It's about time the ACCC sorted this mess out with twin cab ute tow ratings in this country via the importers and dealers, does the Caravan Council agree that you can tow a 3.5 ton caravan behind your typical twin cab ute? and if not do they shout that from the rooftops??
deverall11 said
11:29 AM Apr 7, 2023
Reality is No real road fatalities attributed to caravans. Therefore no bells ringing. Get a few more deaths
and all of a sudden you'll have their attention. Why do you think there's so much noise about motorcycle
related deaths. Some of these riders are just as stupid and ignorant.
On the subject of over weight/over loaded, I have previously mentioned this somewhere else but very
relevant to over weight.
Next to some clown in a caravan park. 200 series Landcruiser with roof basket loaded to the hilt. No need
for scales here, blind Fredy could see the overload. owning a 200 series myself, I am very aware of how small the
'carrying' capacity is and how it's calculated.
Caravan in the vicinity of 24'. Two spares on the back and huge toolbox on the hitch. Three adults travelling.
Driver and front passenger in their 60's rear passenger 30 - 40's.
Travelling from Coolangatta to Melbourne. Both of us were leaving the same day. He left around 8:00am,
we left around 10:30am. About 300 odd km down the road there he is stopped on the side of the road.
We stopped to check if he needed assistance. He had everything 'under control'.
Why was he stopped? Both, not one but both bolts that secure the head to the hitch had sheared off.
At this point I jumped back in our Landcruiser and decided to put as much distance as possible before all
hell potentially broke loose.
Yobarr, ignorance, stupidity or just plain arrogance? Maybe all of the above.
Gundog said
12:12 PM Apr 7, 2023
Opinions are like (.) everyone has one, we hear a twin cab cannot tow 3.5T, trailer must be lighter than the tow vehicle, TBW must be 10%, WDH is a band aid, towball overhang etc. And then you get the physics angle, its all about the narrative to fit one's opinion.
But what is lacking is the evidence, the law, ADR's confirming their opinion, sure you can get you opinion validated by a YouTube hero, or a mariad of other self ordained experts, I wont go to the trouble of naming them because I have butted heads with them in the past challenging the to provide the evidence.
Sure Australia has a love affair with the modern utility and large SUV as a tug, but these vehicles are sold in many places in the world are they totally wrong as well for validating the up to 3.5t towing capicity.
So what percentage of the caravan hauling population would you think worry or know about the weight limits for their vehicle, I would suggest less than 20% based on the enquiries we see on this forum. Likewise I wonder if those people actually know how to setup their combination, its more like luck if they get their rig sort of level, becase I see them almost every day strange combinations of tugs and caravans attitude totally screwed up.
deverall11 said
12:41 PM Apr 7, 2023
Experts or not or otherwise, for those who took up physics or maths at school would understand
the basics of weight distribution. In other words, if the caravan is heavier then the tow vehicle,
you have a job on your hand no matter what towing capacity the tow vehicle has.
yobarr said
12:46 PM Apr 7, 2023
deverall11 wrote:
Reality is No real road fatalities attributed to caravans. Therefore no bells ringing. Get a few more deaths and all of a sudden you'll have their attention. Why do you think there's so much noise about motorcycle related deaths. Some of these riders are just as stupid and ignorant.
On the subject of over weight/over loaded, I have previously mentioned this somewhere else but very relevant to over weight. Next to some clown in a caravan park. 200 series Landcruiser with roof basket loaded to the hilt. No need for scales here, blind Fredy could see the overload. owning a 200 series myself, I am very aware of how small the 'carrying' capacity is and how it's calculated. Caravan in the vicinity of 24'. Two spares on the back and huge toolbox on the hitch. Three adults travelling. Driver and front passenger in their 60's rear passenger 30 - 40's. Travelling from Coolangatta to Melbourne. Both of us were leaving the same day. He left around 8:00am, we left around 10:30am. About 300 odd km down the road there he is stopped on the side of the road. We stopped to check if he needed assistance. He had everything 'under control'. Why was he stopped? Both, not one but both bolts that secure the head to the hitch had sheared off. At this point I jumped back in our Landcruiser and decided to put as much distance as possible before all hell potentially broke loose. Yobarr, ignorance, stupidity or just plain arrogance? Maybe all of the above.
This situation is not at all uncommon with the LC200 owners that I regularly encounter on my travels.
When I approach them, as I am known to do, the most common reaction is surprise, thus ignorance of their weights.
Usually this is followed by "But I've had a GVM upgrade", thus arrogance or maybe another sign of ignorance, as they do not understand that GVM upgrade on an LC200 is next to useless if the vehicle is to be used for towing.
However, it is a great investment if the car is to be used as a tourer.
Lastly we must consider "stupidity" which may be simply a result of their ignorance of weights, or their arrogance at not wanting to know, or both. A lot of the blame could be attributed to companies that provide GVM upgrades not explaining, in detail, what the GVM upgrade has actually achieved, and not simply what the owner wants to hear. Unconscionable conduct comes to mind. Cheers
P.S Not an LC200, but typical of the setups I see at free camps etc in my travels. Despite his reassurances that he was "All legal mate. No worries mate" it is obvious to the trained eye that this vehicle is overloaded, unsafe and uninsured. Ignorant? Stupid? Arrogant? All 3?
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 01:20:57 PM
An accident waiting to happen? A lot of LC200 owners are unaware of the relatively low payload.
Those who think they are go for the obligatory GVM upgrade. However I still do not think do not know how to
calculate the payload.
Not hard if you spend the time and effort to find this information.
Also they are probably not given the full gamma by the people doing the upgrade as they probably
would realise it is a lot of money for very small gain. $$$ don't want to miss out here.
yobarr said
06:16 PM Apr 7, 2023
deverall11 wrote:
An accident waiting to happen? A lot of LC200 owners are unaware of the relatively low payload. Those who think they are go for the obligatory GVM upgrade. However I still do not think do not know how to calculate the payload. Not hard if you spend the time and effort to find this information. Also they are probably not given the full gamma by the people doing the upgrade as they probably would realise it is a lot of money for very little gain. $$$ don't want to miss out here.
Great post, which tells it as it is! Truth be known, an LC200 cannot safely tow much more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer. (Caravan).
Even with the much vaunted GVM upgrade, the rear axle carrying capacity is the problem. Sheep in wolf's clothing, but successfully sucking-in many thousands of apparently ignorant, but perhaps deceived, owners.
MOST GVM upgrades on this car are a waste of money, as rear axle capacity, the BIGGEST problem, is increased by a miserable 50kg. Yes, you've read that correctly.
Thousands of dollars to gain a miserable 50kg on the all-important rear-axle carrying capacity. Spare me!
And don't EVER think that a company that supplies GVM upgrades is going to explain that. Cheers?
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 06:31:47 PM
BarneyBDB said
07:58 PM Apr 7, 2023
But if the same company that steals your money for the GVM update also takes more money for a WDH, all is good, right???
Bobdown said
08:27 PM Apr 7, 2023
Same old, same old cr*p.......LC200 best and most comfortable tug on the road at 3200kg ATM
Cheers Bob
peter67 said
11:37 AM Apr 8, 2023
yobarr wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
An accident waiting to happen? A lot of LC200 owners are unaware of the relatively low payload. Those who think they are go for the obligatory GVM upgrade. However I still do not think do not know how to calculate the payload. Not hard if you spend the time and effort to find this information. Also they are probably not given the full gamma by the people doing the upgrade as they probably would realise it is a lot of money for very little gain. $$$ don't want to miss out here.
Great post, which tells it as it is! Truth be known, an LC200 cannot safely tow much more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer. (Caravan).
Even with the much vaunted GVM upgrade, the rear axle carrying capacity is the problem. Sheep in wolf's clothing, but successfully sucking-in many thousands of apparently ignorant, but perhaps deceived, owners.
MOST GVM upgrades on this car are a waste of money, as rear axle capacity, the BIGGEST problem, is increased by a miserable 50kg. Yes, you've read that correctly.
Thousands of dollars to gain a miserable 50kg on the all-important rear-axle carrying capacity. Spare me!
And don't EVER think that a company that supplies GVM upgrades is going to explain that. Cheers?
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 06:31:47 PM
Whew!! then thank god for ARB making the compulsory, safety crumple zone defeating, massive bullbars (along with snorkels) that seem to be mandatory for aspiring Dingo Piss Creekians so they can add some weight to the front of the vehicle. Should mitigate any overloading problems at the rear!!
deverall11 said
12:13 PM Apr 8, 2023
Bobdown wrote:
Same old, same old cr*p.......LC200 best and most comfortable tug on the road at 3200kg ATM
Cheers Bob
Agree. Very comfortable tow vehicle and also very capable. Does not change the fact that it has
weight limitations. ATM 3200kg means nothing. Here are some meaningful figures:
Standard LC200:
Payload: 690kg
Nominal weight on tow ball: 250kg
Two adults nominal weight: 150kg
Full tank of fuel 138l @ 0.84kg/l: 116kg
ARB bull bar about 100kg, mainly on the front.
This adds up to 616kg leaving 74kg spare. The figures I used are conservative.
Change the tow ball weight to 300kg, adults to 200kg other bits and pieces and pretty soon you are over
the 690kg pay load. Which means you are illegal. Everyone gets away with this because Mr Plod has no
clue as to what to look for and no instructions to get it checked. Issuing speeding fines is what they are
trained for and encouraged to do. Easy money, adrenalin in the chase, bragging rights etc....
Anything beyond that shows their short comings. IE: they get shot and die.
Now my calculations do not take into consideration axle weights. Leave that one to Yobarr.
Bobdown, did anyone explain this to you during the duration of ownership of the LC200. I have
one, purchased in 2013 new and never been explained any of this. All this info is/was available
on LCOOL.ORG.
Bobdown said
01:24 PM Apr 8, 2023
deverall11 wrote:
Bobdown wrote:
Same old, same old cr*p.......LC200 best and most comfortable tug on the road at 3200kg ATM
Cheers Bob
Agree. Very comfortable tow vehicle and also very capable. Does not change the fact that it has
weight limitations. ATM 3200kg means nothing. Here are some meaningful figures:
Standard LC200:
Payload: 690kg
Nominal weight on tow ball: 250kg
Two adults nominal weight: 150kg
Full tank of fuel 138l @ 0.84kg/l: 116kg
ARB bull bar about 100kg, mainly on the front.
This adds up to 616kg leaving 74kg spare. The figures I used are conservative.
Change the tow ball weight to 300kg, adults to 200kg other bits and pieces and pretty soon you are over
the 690kg pay load. Which means you are illegal. Everyone gets away with this because Mr Plod has no
clue as to what to look for and no instructions to get it checked. Issuing speeding fines is what they are
trained for and encouraged to do. Easy money, adrenalin in the chase, bragging rights etc....
Anything beyond that shows their short comings. IE: they get shot and die.
Now my calculations do not take into consideration axle weights. Leave that one to Yobarr.
Bobdown, did anyone explain this to you during the duration of ownership of the LC200. I have
one, purchased in 2013 new and never been explained any of this. All this info is/was available
on LCOOL.ORG.
I'm over one person constantly bagging the LC200 Deverall, that's why I made the comment. He might know about his weights, but can he give it a rest with the critique.
I have learnt a bit about weights from GN's, so with ATM3200kg, TBW 250kg I'm legal for my Cruiser with no bullbar or roof racks etc.
There are tens of 1,000's of LC100, LC200's towing around Australia and I would much prefer one to a Dmax with a canopy on the back, with the tray fully loaded.
I travel very light in my car, nothing but me, missus and the dog, unlike one 79 series owner right on his 6800kg GCM who couldn't fill his water tanks or add a slab of beer.
Cheers Bob
yobarr said
02:48 PM Apr 8, 2023
I travel very light in my car, nothing but me, missus and the dog, unlike one 79 series owner right on his 6800kg GCM who couldn't fill his water tanks or a slab of beer.
Cheers Bob
Might be a coincidence Bob, but like your example,my 79 also runs at 6800kg. However, my weights include full water tanks and a fridge full of beer. Pointless going bush with no water and no beer, surely.
You might like to know that that's also at 10% towball weight, much safer than your 7.8%.
If your car had a decent rear axle capacity you could, like me, run at the generally accepted safe towball weight of 10%.
But "Well done Bob". You need to be commended for at least understanding that an LC200 cannot safely tow much more than 3000kg ATM as a PIG trailer. Well done. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 8th of April 2023 04:19:26 PM
Recent truckies paper had this cartoon, but apparently it has not been seen by many, judging by some of the overloaded cars and vans today travelling on the Pacific Highway.
Nissan Patrol with towbar near ground, headlights skyward and rear of van at least 300mm higher than front. Spare me!
Whether the drivers are simply irresponsible,or just plain ignorant, I do not know, but some of these monstrosities are beyond a joke.
If car drivers were to read these FREE publications they would find all sorts of helpful information. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 07:58:31 AM
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 08:19:37 AM
Easy fix, get a WDH and crank it up to restore 150% of front axle weight
Nice idea Bill. Why worry about being overloaded, unsafe and uninsured?
GCM? What's that? Cheers
Caravan Council of Australia provide free technical sheets and checklists. www.caravancouncil.com.au/
and all of a sudden you'll have their attention. Why do you think there's so much noise about motorcycle
related deaths. Some of these riders are just as stupid and ignorant.
On the subject of over weight/over loaded, I have previously mentioned this somewhere else but very
relevant to over weight.
Next to some clown in a caravan park. 200 series Landcruiser with roof basket loaded to the hilt. No need
for scales here, blind Fredy could see the overload. owning a 200 series myself, I am very aware of how small the
'carrying' capacity is and how it's calculated.
Caravan in the vicinity of 24'. Two spares on the back and huge toolbox on the hitch. Three adults travelling.
Driver and front passenger in their 60's rear passenger 30 - 40's.
Travelling from Coolangatta to Melbourne. Both of us were leaving the same day. He left around 8:00am,
we left around 10:30am. About 300 odd km down the road there he is stopped on the side of the road.
We stopped to check if he needed assistance. He had everything 'under control'.
Why was he stopped? Both, not one but both bolts that secure the head to the hitch had sheared off.
At this point I jumped back in our Landcruiser and decided to put as much distance as possible before all
hell potentially broke loose.
Yobarr, ignorance, stupidity or just plain arrogance? Maybe all of the above.
Opinions are like (.) everyone has one, we hear a twin cab cannot tow 3.5T, trailer must be lighter than the tow vehicle, TBW must be 10%, WDH is a band aid, towball overhang etc. And then you get the physics angle, its all about the narrative to fit one's opinion.
But what is lacking is the evidence, the law, ADR's confirming their opinion, sure you can get you opinion validated by a YouTube hero, or a mariad of other self ordained experts, I wont go to the trouble of naming them because I have butted heads with them in the past challenging the to provide the evidence.
Sure Australia has a love affair with the modern utility and large SUV as a tug, but these vehicles are sold in many places in the world are they totally wrong as well for validating the up to 3.5t towing capicity.
So what percentage of the caravan hauling population would you think worry or know about the weight limits for their vehicle, I would suggest less than 20% based on the enquiries we see on this forum. Likewise I wonder if those people actually know how to setup their combination, its more like luck if they get their rig sort of level, becase I see them almost every day strange combinations of tugs and caravans attitude totally screwed up.
the basics of weight distribution. In other words, if the caravan is heavier then the tow vehicle,
you have a job on your hand no matter what towing capacity the tow vehicle has.
This situation is not at all uncommon with the LC200 owners that I regularly encounter on my travels.
When I approach them, as I am known to do, the most common reaction is surprise, thus ignorance of their weights.
Usually this is followed by "But I've had a GVM upgrade", thus arrogance or maybe another sign of ignorance, as they do not understand that GVM upgrade on an LC200 is next to useless if the vehicle is to be used for towing.
However, it is a great investment if the car is to be used as a tourer.
Lastly we must consider "stupidity" which may be simply a result of their ignorance of weights, or their arrogance at not wanting to know, or both. A lot of the blame could be attributed to companies that provide GVM upgrades not explaining, in detail, what the GVM upgrade has actually achieved, and not simply what the owner wants to hear. Unconscionable conduct comes to mind. Cheers
P.S Not an LC200, but typical of the setups I see at free camps etc in my travels. Despite his reassurances that he was "All legal mate. No worries mate" it is obvious to the trained eye that this vehicle is overloaded, unsafe and uninsured. Ignorant? Stupid? Arrogant? All 3?
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 01:20:57 PM
Those who think they are go for the obligatory GVM upgrade. However I still do not think do not know how to
calculate the payload.
Not hard if you spend the time and effort to find this information.
Also they are probably not given the full gamma by the people doing the upgrade as they probably
would realise it is a lot of money for very small gain. $$$ don't want to miss out here.
Great post, which tells it as it is! Truth be known, an LC200 cannot safely tow much more than about 3000kg as a PIG trailer. (Caravan).
Even with the much vaunted GVM upgrade, the rear axle carrying capacity is the problem. Sheep in wolf's clothing, but successfully sucking-in many thousands of apparently ignorant, but perhaps deceived, owners.
MOST GVM upgrades on this car are a waste of money, as rear axle capacity, the BIGGEST problem, is increased by a miserable 50kg. Yes, you've read that correctly.
Thousands of dollars to gain a miserable 50kg on the all-important rear-axle carrying capacity. Spare me!
And don't EVER think that a company that supplies GVM upgrades is going to explain that. Cheers?
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 06:31:47 PM
Same old, same old cr*p.......LC200 best and most comfortable tug on the road at 3200kg ATM
Cheers Bob
Whew!! then thank god for ARB making the compulsory, safety crumple zone defeating, massive bullbars (along with snorkels) that seem to be mandatory for aspiring Dingo Piss Creekians so they can add some weight to the front of the vehicle. Should mitigate any overloading problems at the rear!!
Agree. Very comfortable tow vehicle and also very capable. Does not change the fact that it has
weight limitations. ATM 3200kg means nothing. Here are some meaningful figures:
Standard LC200:
Payload: 690kg
Nominal weight on tow ball: 250kg
Two adults nominal weight: 150kg
Full tank of fuel 138l @ 0.84kg/l: 116kg
ARB bull bar about 100kg, mainly on the front.
This adds up to 616kg leaving 74kg spare. The figures I used are conservative.
Change the tow ball weight to 300kg, adults to 200kg other bits and pieces and pretty soon you are over
the 690kg pay load. Which means you are illegal. Everyone gets away with this because Mr Plod has no
clue as to what to look for and no instructions to get it checked. Issuing speeding fines is what they are
trained for and encouraged to do. Easy money, adrenalin in the chase, bragging rights etc....
Anything beyond that shows their short comings. IE: they get shot and die.
Now my calculations do not take into consideration axle weights. Leave that one to Yobarr.
Bobdown, did anyone explain this to you during the duration of ownership of the LC200. I have
one, purchased in 2013 new and never been explained any of this. All this info is/was available
on LCOOL.ORG.
I'm over one person constantly bagging the LC200 Deverall, that's why I made the comment. He might know about his weights, but can he give it a rest with the critique.
I have learnt a bit about weights from GN's, so with ATM3200kg, TBW 250kg I'm legal for my Cruiser with no bullbar or roof racks etc.
There are tens of 1,000's of LC100, LC200's towing around Australia and I would much prefer one to a Dmax with a canopy on the back, with the tray fully loaded.
I travel very light in my car, nothing but me, missus and the dog, unlike one 79 series owner right on his 6800kg GCM who couldn't fill his water tanks or add a slab of beer.
Cheers Bob
Might be a coincidence Bob, but like your example,my 79 also runs at 6800kg. However, my weights include full water tanks and a fridge full of beer. Pointless going bush with no water and no beer, surely.
You might like to know that that's also at 10% towball weight, much safer than your 7.8%.
If your car had a decent rear axle capacity you could, like me, run at the generally accepted safe towball weight of 10%.
But "Well done Bob". You need to be commended for at least understanding that an LC200 cannot safely tow much more than 3000kg ATM as a PIG trailer. Well done. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 8th of April 2023 04:19:26 PM