I am very saddened by how our country has become so disrespectful to women, for years women struggled for equality to eventually to succeed.
Now its under assault from trans right activists, supporting males who identify as female to be able to compete in womens and girls sports, use the same dressing rooms and toilets.
I have viewed many Youtube clips where, when asked what is a women, often they will not or can not respond, others will respond if you identify as a women you are a women.
Recently here in Australia we had a group of women, who tried to have a meeting to Let Women Speak, only to have a of trans rights protestors disrupt the events. Whats happened to free speech.
The other day world athletics banned trans athletes for elite competition, and on the same day in South Australia a male claiming to be a trans female won a sprinting event in schools sport.
We even have male criminals identifying as female so they can be placed in womens prisons
How do we stop this rubbish.
yobarr said
02:37 PM Mar 26, 2023
Gundog wrote:
I am very saddened by how our country has become so disrespectful to women, for years women struggled for equality to eventually to succeed.
Now its under assault from trans right activists, supporting males who identify as female to be able to compete in womens and girls sports, use the same dressing rooms and toilets.
I have viewed many Youtube clips where, when asked what is a women, often they will not or can not respond, others will respond if you identify as a women you are a women.
Recently here in Australia we had a group of women, who tried to have a meeting to Let Women Speak, only to have a of trans rights protestors disrupt the events. Whats happened to free speech.
The other day world athletics banned trans athletes for elite competition, and on the same day in South Australia a male claiming to be a trans female won a sprinting event in schools sport.
We even have male criminals identifying as female so they can be placed in womens prisons
How do we stop this rubbish.
Great post Graham. As far as I know, when a child is born it is it is one of only two sexes, these being male and female. There are no other options, as far as I know, although Biology was not my favourite subject at school. No amount of body mutilation, playing with the plumbing, or bowing to representations by pressure groups by introducing legislation that says that Bob now is Gaye (Pun intended!) will change this.
All acceptance for participation in gender-specific sport should be based on the participant's sex at birth, not what he/she/it now "identifies as". Could be a deterrent, and reduce crime too, if this happened as I'm sure that someone who "identifies as woman" would be welcomed in a mens' gaol?
If someone is born with testicles that person is male. Removing those testicles doesn't change that, despite all the hype. Not sure, but I heard somewhere that the birth certificates of children born in Tasmania do not include the sex of the child? Is that child now an "It"? Spare me.
And don't get me started on couples other than male and female wanting to adopt a child, as of right, to then be classed as a "family". No Cheers here.
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 26th of March 2023 03:42:25 PM
Whenarewethere said
03:01 PM Mar 26, 2023
XX or XY.
yobarr said
03:40 PM Mar 26, 2023
Whenarewethere wrote:
XX or XY.
XY was one of the best Ford Falcons ever built! Not sure about XX though? Cheers
smwhiskey said
03:42 PM Mar 26, 2023
Gundog wrote:
How do we stop this rubbish.
By not treating various demographics as "special"?
yobarr said
03:46 PM Mar 26, 2023
smwhiskey wrote:
Gundog wrote:
How do we stop this rubbish.
By not treating various demographics as "special"?
It astounds me that such a small, insignificant number of misfits are not only tolarated by the vast majority, but are let loose to run riot, demanding that legislation be introduced to suit their agenda. Seems we may soon have a country full of "ITS" Cheers
Possum3 said
03:56 PM Mar 26, 2023
Not a simple solution;
Many children are born with misshapen genitals. In the past, many of these children were surgically "corrected" to the parent's direction, even though the child's DNA and glands may have been different to the surgically modified sex. It was hoped that these "corrected" children grew up to become the surgically assigned sex. Sadly, this hasn't always been the case.
It is probable that many of the "Transexuals" publicly demonstrating are emotionally identifying as male/female even though there is no biological reason for their such expression. Understanding of the reasons for such behaviors should be paramount, not incitement to bash/criminalise/abhor their personal stance.
There are also the rat bag element and rent-a-mob that are using the unfortunate to promote a social/political view.
As responsible adults it is our "duty" to refrain from incitement..
Mike Harding said
04:15 PM Mar 26, 2023
Possum3 wrote:
Many children are born with misshapen genitals.
My understanding is that in the UK (~60,000,000 people) about 50 babies per year are born of indeterminate sex and an operation is performed to produce a boy or a girl so about 25 in 60,000,000 or 0.00004% will be wrong.
Many children are born with misshapen genitals. In the past, many of these children were surgically "corrected" to the parent's direction, even though the child's DNA and glands may have been different to the surgically modified sex. It was hoped that these "corrected" children grew up to become the surgically assigned sex. Sadly, this hasn't always been the case.
It is probable that many of the "Transexuals" publicly demonstrating are emotionally identifying as male/female even though there is no biological reason for their such expression. Understanding of the reasons for such behaviors should be paramount, not incitement to bash/criminalise/abhor their personal stance.
There are also the rat bag element and rent-a-mob that are using the unfortunate to promote a social/political view.
As responsible adults it is our "duty" to refrain from incitement..
Well put Possum.
yobarr said
04:36 PM Mar 26, 2023
rgren2 wrote:
Nice one, Rod! Thanks.
deverall11 said
05:46 PM Mar 26, 2023
Maybe a third classification in sports: men, women, transgenders???
Greg 1 said
07:01 PM Mar 26, 2023
I really don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, nor do I care if some one decides to identify as a chicken if that's what floats their boat.
Just don't keep trying to ram it down my throat that this behaviour is somehow normal because it's not, so if you fit in those categories just go off quietly and live a happy life.
I certainly won't be bothering you if you do.
Santa said
07:07 PM Mar 26, 2023
Charles Darwin was pretty well on the money when he suggested that only those best suited to their environment will survive in the long term.
Some of us feel it's our duty to interfere with everything, biology included, we're not talking surgery to correct minor imperfections/deformities, this is life changing stuff, and in many cases those making the changes get it wrong.
If people are born with genetic imperfections why on earth would they want to pass their genes onto future generations, it doesn't make sense.
"Survival of the fittest"[1] is a phrase that originated from Darwinian evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of natural selection. The biological concept of fitness is defined as reproductive success. In Darwinian terms, the phrase is best understood as "Survival of the form that will leave the most copies of itself in successive generations."
yobarr said
07:10 PM Mar 26, 2023
Greg 1 wrote:
I really don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, nor do I care if some one decides to identify as a chicken if that's what floats their boat. Just don't keep trying to ram it down my throat that this behaviour is somehow normal because it's not, so if you fit in those categories just go off quietly and live a happy life. I certainly won't be bothering you if you do.
Post of the day, me thinks! Cheers
Gundog said
07:20 PM Mar 26, 2023
I think this one says it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrQNj0iwuy4
dogbox said
07:21 PM Mar 26, 2023
Greg 1 wrote:
I really don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, nor do I care if some one decides to identify as a chicken if that's what floats their boat. Just don't keep trying to ram it down my throat that this behaviour is somehow normal because it's not, so if you fit in those categories just go off quietly and live a happy life. I certainly won't be bothering you if you do.
x2
BarneyBDB said
08:40 PM Mar 26, 2023
deverall11 wrote:
Maybe a third classification in sports: men, women, transgenders???
NO, That would just open the gates....
Southern Cruizer said
08:40 PM Mar 26, 2023
dogbox wrote:
Greg 1 wrote:
I really don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, nor do I care if some one decides to identify as a chicken if that's what floats their boat. Just don't keep trying to ram it down my throat that this behaviour is somehow normal because it's not, so if you fit in those categories just go off quietly and live a happy life. I certainly won't be bothering you if you do.
x3
x2
Bobdown said
10:12 PM Mar 26, 2023
Southern Cruizer wrote:
dogbox wrote:
Greg 1 wrote:
I really don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, nor do I care if some one decides to identify as a chicken if that's what floats their boat. Just don't keep trying to ram it down my throat that this behaviour is somehow normal because it's not, so if you fit in those categories just go off quietly and live a happy life. I certainly won't be bothering you if you do.
x3
x2
x 3 x2 x8 x10= I thought it was Adam and Eve..........not Adam and Steve
rgren2 said
11:17 PM Mar 26, 2023
Remember Rex Mossop? One of his quotes.
I don't think the male genitals or the female genitals should be rammed down people's throats to use a colloquialism after his citizen's arrest of a nude bather at Reef Beach near his home. I am not a man of faith, but my wife is. Here they come, every colour of the rainbow black, white, and brown.
Bicyclecamper said
11:28 PM Mar 26, 2023
Whenarewethere wrote:
XX or XY.
I was born with the chromosone count of 47XXY. I did not know about that until 2 years into my army career. I expected to be booted out, but, they said I passed all the requirements and they saw me as a male, which, is how I saw myself, and how my family raised me. Later in life whilst still an armed forces member, met up with a group, that was formed with this known "Disability", and many of them identified as Transexual, or went all the way and became female. I never had that urge to be different other then male, but I don't begrudge anyone wanting to be either male or female, or trans, or whatever. You people making these comments have no F idea, what people like myself are going thru and still go thru. I was lucky, that my family saw me as a male, and raised me as same. I think that has a lot to do with how you turn out, environ-mentally speaking, but a lot of these kids today, once their families find out about this issue, they the parents change how they go about raising them, and I think that is the wrong approach, sure monitor them , but ask them how they identify, find out how they feel, nurture them, protect them and help them get thru it as best as you can, and with maybe psychological help if need be. I am disappointed in the comments above, and it is people like you that are forcing these kids/young adults/and adults to force their point of view down everybodies throat to get that point of view and understanding of what they are going thru across all persuasions of everybody out there. Not everybody identifies as just either Male or female, and un til you know, learn and understand their are differences in the sexes of people, you cannot really make uninformed comments like above, because you just don't know anything about it. It just comes across as discrimination.
Mein said
12:05 AM Mar 27, 2023
Some time ago, I met a transgender person who was wearing a low cut dress and it was consequently visible that 'she' had breasts. Apart from that, her face and body looked decidedly masculine to me.
The person volunteered (without any enquiry or prompt from me) that she had male genitalia and had no intention of undergoing surgery to change to female genitalia.
I was 100% indifferent towards 'her' presence, 'her' appearance and 'her' revelation that 'she' retained male genitalia UNTIL she told me that she was lesbian; that 'she' felt no romantic or sexual attraction towards men, only women.
From that point on, I could only think of 'her' as one f#cked up individual.
Tonight, you could have knocked me over with a feather when I saw an upcoming program promotion on the ABC about some kind of diversity show and the promo briefly featured a mature 'lesbian' couple comprising an obviously natural woman and her obviously transgender, 'female' partner.
So, I don't think that world is going crazy. I think we're already there!
dorian said
06:36 AM Mar 27, 2023
As I see it, the anti-trans movement has sprung up in response to unreasonable attacks against social norms. They should not all be written off as just an insensitive bunch of bigots wanting to suppress the transgender lobby.
There are obvious absurdities and outright injustices in allowing biological males to compete in women's sports and to use women's amenities. Just because a man psychologically identifies as a woman should not affect those societal and institutional norms which treat him as the biological male that he really is. Why is this even subject to argument?
By all means, let's treat those who don't fit neatly into the traditional gender categories as the human beings that they are. Show them compassion and understanding. Make accommodations wherever possible, as long as they are reasonable and do not disadvantage other sectors of society. Unfortunately, the transgender lobby has fomented societal upheaval, and this is what will ultimately turn their supporters against them.
I'm one of about 5% of males who are colour-blind. Relatively few females are similarly affected. This means that 2.5% of the population do not perceive the world in the same way as colour-sighted people. My life is not significantly diminished, although people may laugh when I reach for a purple shirt, thinking that it's blue, or if I hit the brown snooker ball, thinking that it's red. Fortunately, the design of traffic lights accommodates people like me. However, imagine what the world would be like if fashion designers, product marketeers, graphic artists, etc limited their choice of colours for my benefit.
All I'm saying is, be compassionate, but also be reasonable.
dogbox said
08:00 AM Mar 27, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Greg 1 wrote:
I really don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, nor do I care if some one decides to identify as a chicken if that's what floats their boat. Just don't keep trying to ram it down my throat that this behaviour is somehow normal because it's not, so if you fit in those categories just go off quietly and live a happy life. I certainly won't be bothering you if you do.
Post of the day, me thinks! Cheers
we can keep coming back to this post .
dorian said
09:03 AM Mar 27, 2023
Possum3 wrote:
It is probable that many of the "Transexuals" publicly demonstrating are emotionally identifying as male/female even though there is no biological reason for their such expression. Understanding of the reasons for such behaviors should be paramount, not incitement to bash/criminalise/abhor their personal stance.
I think it is this cohort who are the main reason for the antagonism of the anti-trans lobby. Clearly, for a biological male to identify as a female is not "normal". At least this behaviour is not driven by chromosomal factors. The question then becomes, at what point do we perceive certain behaviours to be mental disorders, and, if so, how should we deal with them? (I hope I'm not using the word "normal" in a derogatory or judgmental way. Maybe "unusual" would be a less emotive term.)
As a counterexample, there are people who harbour an intense desire to paralyse or amputate their own perfectly functional limbs. Amazingly, there are surgeons who relent to their demands and perform such operations. How do they deal with the enormous ethical dilemma? What I'm saying is, where does one draw the line when dealing with psychological issues?
All I'm saying is, be compassionate, but also be reasonable.
I'm inclined to agree with your summary Dorian.
It is the lack of compassion & reasonableness which always accompanies these 'otherising' attacks on those who are perceived as, or who identify as 'different' which I react to. I see selfishness, ignorance, lack of empathy & rejection. I see hurtfulness which seeks out the validation other 'hurters' to help convince that it is 'right' to treat difference by rejecting it.
I believe everyone has a right to live their lives in the way that suits them with the proviso that it doesn't diminish the lives of others.
Bottom line is that all people are people & many different ways to live a happy & productive life without negative impact on the lives of others.
I know, just as an example of the treatment of difference, (nothing to do with sexuality in this case) the story of a man (whom I'll call John) who suffered with schizophrenia, who had never been comfortable in his skin, a product of the institutional mental health system, who became homeless and unwanted. He spent years just wandering never experiencing any sense of belonging, feeling rejected by society & self blaming. Incredibly his wanderings saw him turn up in a remote Scottish island community where somehow folk who lived there didn't push him away, or try to 'treat' him. They just accepted that that was how he was and as a community they saw him as 'John'. Not as a 'label'. Not something to be rejected. Somehow that Scottish village were able to see past the label of 'damaged goods' which had been stamped on John's life & which had formed his own view of himself. Beyond the label they saw him as a friend & contributor, & one of them. Labels really are unhelpful.
John has lived in that community now for many years & is a respected member of that community, a town councillor. He still has his mental health issues, but acceptance & belonging, primary needs for us all, freely given were everything for him. He was offered belonging.
I just wish that folk who shun difference could somehow realise that by embracing it, it adds rather than detracts. Valuing diversity. I find it hard to view the rigid & intolerant rejection of difference as anything more than self preservation which to me suggests a certain lack of confidence in their own sense of self which can only be 'comforted' at the expense of others.
There is a dilemma for folk who are labelled as different, who seek acceptance, to do so without reference to the label when they come together under that label. Self labelling can be just as damaging as labelling by others. In this case 'Transgender'. It helps their recognition but it also sets them up for rejection. I hope that somehow over time that the labels can be dropped & that the Freds & Fredas can be seen for who they are & accepted. For now they have their enemies, & in some ways are their own worst enemies - but I suspect that over time, if allowed that the labelling will lessen & they will just become 'other people'.
dorian said
09:32 AM Mar 27, 2023
In John's case, he didn't expect that his community should make any major changes, or any changes at all, in order to accommodate him. I think that's the crux of the conflict. If you read Spiked, their anti-trans crusade exclusively targets biological males who self-identify as female and then intrude into private female domains. If one were to eliminate this aspect, or at least define it robustly in law, then Spiked would have nothing to write about.
Cuppa said
09:48 AM Mar 27, 2023
dorian wrote:
In John's case, he didn't expect that his community should make any major changes, or any changes at all, in order to accommodate him. I think that's the crux of the conflict. If you read Spiked, their anti-trans crusade exclusively targets biological males who self-identify as female and then intrude into private female domains. If one were to eliminate this aspect, or at least define it robustly in law, then Spiked would have nothing to write about.
A fair & reasonable comment.
It doesn't excuse the 'hatreds' which are on view, but does expose the need for reasonableness that you referred to.
Bicyclecamper said
09:49 AM Mar 27, 2023
This was a massive thing for me to "OUT" myself, on such a public forum. I have always kept quiet about it since finding out at age 19. I wouldn't have brought it up, but I didn't like what I was seeing in the comments here, every individual has their own opinions on various matters, whether I like them or not. So I just hope, you people don't treat me any differently to the way I was treated in the past. I will always have my own opinion on matters of the heart like this, and will always call people out if I think their opinion is wrong or misguided.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 27th of March 2023 10:19:41 AM
I am very saddened by how our country has become so disrespectful to women, for years women struggled for equality to eventually to succeed.
Now its under assault from trans right activists, supporting males who identify as female to be able to compete in womens and girls sports, use the same dressing rooms and toilets.
I have viewed many Youtube clips where, when asked what is a women, often they will not or can not respond, others will respond if you identify as a women you are a women.
Recently here in Australia we had a group of women, who tried to have a meeting to Let Women Speak, only to have a of trans rights protestors disrupt the events. Whats happened to free speech.
The other day world athletics banned trans athletes for elite competition, and on the same day in South Australia a male claiming to be a trans female won a sprinting event in schools sport.
We even have male criminals identifying as female so they can be placed in womens prisons
How do we stop this rubbish.
Great post Graham. As far as I know, when a child is born it is it is one of only two sexes, these being male and female. There are no other options, as far as I know, although Biology was not my favourite subject at school. No amount of body mutilation, playing with the plumbing, or bowing to representations by pressure groups by introducing legislation that says that Bob now is Gaye (Pun intended!) will change this.
All acceptance for participation in gender-specific sport should be based on the participant's sex at birth, not what he/she/it now "identifies as". Could be a deterrent, and reduce crime too, if this happened as I'm sure that someone who "identifies as woman" would be welcomed in a mens' gaol?
If someone is born with testicles that person is male. Removing those testicles doesn't change that, despite all the hype. Not sure, but I heard somewhere that the birth certificates of children born in Tasmania do not include the sex of the child? Is that child now an "It"? Spare me.
And don't get me started on couples other than male and female wanting to adopt a child, as of right, to then be classed as a "family". No Cheers here.
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 26th of March 2023 03:42:25 PM
XX or XY.
XY was one of the best Ford Falcons ever built! Not sure about XX though? Cheers
By not treating various demographics as "special"?
It astounds me that such a small, insignificant number of misfits are not only tolarated by the vast majority, but are let loose to run riot, demanding that legislation be introduced to suit their agenda. Seems we may soon have a country full of "ITS" Cheers
Many children are born with misshapen genitals. In the past, many of these children were surgically "corrected" to the parent's direction, even though the child's DNA and glands may have been different to the surgically modified sex. It was hoped that these "corrected" children grew up to become the surgically assigned sex. Sadly, this hasn't always been the case.
It is probable that many of the "Transexuals" publicly demonstrating are emotionally identifying as male/female even though there is no biological reason for their such expression. Understanding of the reasons for such behaviors should be paramount, not incitement to bash/criminalise/abhor their personal stance.
There are also the rat bag element and rent-a-mob that are using the unfortunate to promote a social/political view.
As responsible adults it is our "duty" to refrain from incitement..
My understanding is that in the UK (~60,000,000 people) about 50 babies per year are born of indeterminate sex and an operation is performed to produce a boy or a girl so about 25 in 60,000,000 or 0.00004% will be wrong.
Well put Possum.
Nice one, Rod! Thanks.
Charles Darwin was pretty well on the money when he suggested that only those best suited to their environment will survive in the long term.
Some of us feel it's our duty to interfere with everything, biology included, we're not talking surgery to correct minor imperfections/deformities, this is life changing stuff, and in many cases those making the changes get it wrong.
If people are born with genetic imperfections why on earth would they want to pass their genes onto future generations, it doesn't make sense.
"Survival of the fittest"[1] is a phrase that originated from Darwinian evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of natural selection. The biological concept of fitness is defined as reproductive success. In Darwinian terms, the phrase is best understood as "Survival of the form that will leave the most copies of itself in successive generations."
Post of the day, me thinks! Cheers
I think this one says it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrQNj0iwuy4
x2
NO, That would just open the gates....
x 3 x2 x8 x10= I thought it was Adam and Eve..........not Adam and Steve
I don't think the male genitals or the female genitals should be rammed down people's throats to use a colloquialism after his citizen's arrest of a nude bather at Reef Beach near his home. I am not a man of faith, but my wife is. Here they come, every colour of the rainbow black, white, and brown.
I was born with the chromosone count of 47XXY. I did not know about that until 2 years into my army career. I expected to be booted out, but, they said I passed all the requirements and they saw me as a male, which, is how I saw myself, and how my family raised me. Later in life whilst still an armed forces member, met up with a group, that was formed with this known "Disability", and many of them identified as Transexual, or went all the way and became female. I never had that urge to be different other then male, but I don't begrudge anyone wanting to be either male or female, or trans, or whatever. You people making these comments have no F idea, what people like myself are going thru and still go thru. I was lucky, that my family saw me as a male, and raised me as same. I think that has a lot to do with how you turn out, environ-mentally speaking, but a lot of these kids today, once their families find out about this issue, they the parents change how they go about raising them, and I think that is the wrong approach, sure monitor them , but ask them how they identify, find out how they feel, nurture them, protect them and help them get thru it as best as you can, and with maybe psychological help if need be. I am disappointed in the comments above, and it is people like you that are forcing these kids/young adults/and adults to force their point of view down everybodies throat to get that point of view and understanding of what they are going thru across all persuasions of everybody out there. Not everybody identifies as just either Male or female, and un til you know, learn and understand their are differences in the sexes of people, you cannot really make uninformed comments like above, because you just don't know anything about it. It just comes across as discrimination.
Some time ago, I met a transgender person who was wearing a low cut dress and it was consequently visible that 'she' had breasts. Apart from that, her face and body looked decidedly masculine to me.
The person volunteered (without any enquiry or prompt from me) that she had male genitalia and had no intention of undergoing surgery to change to female genitalia.
I was 100% indifferent towards 'her' presence, 'her' appearance and 'her' revelation that 'she' retained male genitalia UNTIL she told me that she was lesbian; that 'she' felt no romantic or sexual attraction towards men, only women.
From that point on, I could only think of 'her' as one f#cked up individual.
Tonight, you could have knocked me over with a feather when I saw an upcoming program promotion on the ABC about some kind of diversity show and the promo briefly featured a mature 'lesbian' couple comprising an obviously natural woman and her obviously transgender, 'female' partner.
So, I don't think that world is going crazy. I think we're already there!
There are obvious absurdities and outright injustices in allowing biological males to compete in women's sports and to use women's amenities. Just because a man psychologically identifies as a woman should not affect those societal and institutional norms which treat him as the biological male that he really is. Why is this even subject to argument?
By all means, let's treat those who don't fit neatly into the traditional gender categories as the human beings that they are. Show them compassion and understanding. Make accommodations wherever possible, as long as they are reasonable and do not disadvantage other sectors of society. Unfortunately, the transgender lobby has fomented societal upheaval, and this is what will ultimately turn their supporters against them.
I'm one of about 5% of males who are colour-blind. Relatively few females are similarly affected. This means that 2.5% of the population do not perceive the world in the same way as colour-sighted people. My life is not significantly diminished, although people may laugh when I reach for a purple shirt, thinking that it's blue, or if I hit the brown snooker ball, thinking that it's red. Fortunately, the design of traffic lights accommodates people like me. However, imagine what the world would be like if fashion designers, product marketeers, graphic artists, etc limited their choice of colours for my benefit.
All I'm saying is, be compassionate, but also be reasonable.
we can keep coming back to this post .
I think it is this cohort who are the main reason for the antagonism of the anti-trans lobby. Clearly, for a biological male to identify as a female is not "normal". At least this behaviour is not driven by chromosomal factors. The question then becomes, at what point do we perceive certain behaviours to be mental disorders, and, if so, how should we deal with them? (I hope I'm not using the word "normal" in a derogatory or judgmental way. Maybe "unusual" would be a less emotive term.)
As a counterexample, there are people who harbour an intense desire to paralyse or amputate their own perfectly functional limbs. Amazingly, there are surgeons who relent to their demands and perform such operations. How do they deal with the enormous ethical dilemma? What I'm saying is, where does one draw the line when dealing with psychological issues?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_dysphoria
I'm inclined to agree with your summary Dorian.
It is the lack of compassion & reasonableness which always accompanies these 'otherising' attacks on those who are perceived as, or who identify as 'different' which I react to. I see selfishness, ignorance, lack of empathy & rejection. I see hurtfulness which seeks out the validation other 'hurters' to help convince that it is 'right' to treat difference by rejecting it.
I believe everyone has a right to live their lives in the way that suits them with the proviso that it doesn't diminish the lives of others.
Bottom line is that all people are people & many different ways to live a happy & productive life without negative impact on the lives of others.
I know, just as an example of the treatment of difference, (nothing to do with sexuality in this case) the story of a man (whom I'll call John) who suffered with schizophrenia, who had never been comfortable in his skin, a product of the institutional mental health system, who became homeless and unwanted. He spent years just wandering never experiencing any sense of belonging, feeling rejected by society & self blaming. Incredibly his wanderings saw him turn up in a remote Scottish island community where somehow folk who lived there didn't push him away, or try to 'treat' him. They just accepted that that was how he was and as a community they saw him as 'John'. Not as a 'label'. Not something to be rejected. Somehow that Scottish village were able to see past the label of 'damaged goods' which had been stamped on John's life & which had formed his own view of himself. Beyond the label they saw him as a friend & contributor, & one of them. Labels really are unhelpful.
John has lived in that community now for many years & is a respected member of that community, a town councillor. He still has his mental health issues, but acceptance & belonging, primary needs for us all, freely given were everything for him. He was offered belonging.
I just wish that folk who shun difference could somehow realise that by embracing it, it adds rather than detracts. Valuing diversity. I find it hard to view the rigid & intolerant rejection of difference as anything more than self preservation which to me suggests a certain lack of confidence in their own sense of self which can only be 'comforted' at the expense of others.
There is a dilemma for folk who are labelled as different, who seek acceptance, to do so without reference to the label when they come together under that label. Self labelling can be just as damaging as labelling by others. In this case 'Transgender'. It helps their recognition but it also sets them up for rejection. I hope that somehow over time that the labels can be dropped & that the Freds & Fredas can be seen for who they are & accepted. For now they have their enemies, & in some ways are their own worst enemies - but I suspect that over time, if allowed that the labelling will lessen & they will just become 'other people'.
A fair & reasonable comment.
It doesn't excuse the 'hatreds' which are on view, but does expose the need for reasonableness that you referred to.
This was a massive thing for me to "OUT" myself, on such a public forum. I have always kept quiet about it since finding out at age 19. I wouldn't have brought it up, but I didn't like what I was seeing in the comments here, every individual has their own opinions on various matters, whether I like them or not. So I just hope, you people don't treat me any differently to the way I was treated in the past. I will always have my own opinion on matters of the heart like this, and will always call people out if I think their opinion is wrong or misguided.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 27th of March 2023 10:19:41 AM