This has been bugging me for a long time, I call all vehicles driven by 4 wheels as 4WD. And the amount of times Ive been corrected is ridicules. Oh Oh they say you cant call it a 4WD! its an AWD, and they go on and on and on. It peeves me. Really whats it matter? In what Bible gives the correct terminology? Im a retired Mechanic and quite familiar with all the systems. My new Pathfinder has 4WD on the tailgate. Its really up to the manufactures what badge they use. So I suppose i'll keep copping sh*t from all the experts.
Ram Man said
01:17 PM Mar 19, 2023
Bulldozer,
AWD's are driven by pretentious people who think that their AWD isn't a 4WD, because it's a hard tractive surface vehicle.
AWD came out in Audi Quattro years ago and Honda has a AWD as do many manufactures but these are sedan, wagon or SUV configurations and don't feature High and Low Ranges.
My Ram is 4x4 with 2H, 4H & 4L so we'll say it's 4WD, has the Pathfinder got High & Low Ranges? if so you'd say it's 4WD.
That's how I see it.
yobarr said
01:24 PM Mar 19, 2023
Bulldozer wrote:
This has been bugging me for a long time, I call all vehicles driven by 4 wheels as 4WD. And the amount of times Ive been corrected is ridicules. Oh Oh they say you cant call it a 4WD! its an AWD, and they go on and on and on. It peeves me. Really whats it matter? In what Bible gives the correct terminology? Im a retired Mechanic and quite familiar with all the systems. My new Pathfinder has 4WD on the tailgate. Its really up to the manufactures what badge they use. So I suppose i'll keep copping sh*t from all the experts.
AWD is not in the same league as 4wd. This has been covered extensively before on this forum, but I can't be bothered. Hopefully one of the members who has explained it before, and knows what he is talking about, will help you out. A typical "4wd" drive still is only ever 2wd but we won't go there either! Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 19th of March 2023 04:36:21 PM
Possum3 said
01:26 PM Mar 19, 2023
Ram Man wrote:
My Ram is 4x4 with 2H, 4H & 4L so we'll say it's 4WD, has the Pathfinder got High & Low Ranges? if so you'd say it's 4WD.
That's how I see it.
4WD's also usually have; Limited slip Differential, Traction Control, Descent Control, Differential Lock - Additionally, Free wheeling hubs with the ability to lock, Ladder/Frame chassis, Robust suspension system are commonly found on true off-road vehicles.
Bulldozer said
02:05 PM Mar 19, 2023
Ram Man wrote:
Bulldozer, AWD's are driven by pretentious people who think that their AWD isn't a 4WD, because it's a hard tractive surface vehicle.
AWD came out in Audi Quattro years ago and Honda has a AWD as do many manufactures but these are sedan, wagon or SUV configurations and don't feature High and Low Ranges.
My Ram is 4x4 with 2H, 4H & 4L so we'll say it's 4WD, has the Pathfinder got High & Low Ranges? if so you'd say it's 4WD.
That's how I see it.
Pathfinder has no low range. So I still call it a 4wd, so does Nissan! So who's BOOK OF RULES does the only 4wd is hi and low range come from? Thats what I want to know. No biggy, just my way of thinking.
Tony LEE said
03:09 PM Mar 19, 2023
Vehicle can only be 4WD if it has lockable or limited slip front and back diffs
Same with those with a centre diff - all three must be lockable.
yobarr said
03:41 PM Mar 19, 2023
Tony LEE wrote:
Vehicle can only be 4WD if it has lockable or limited slip front and back diffs Same with those with a centre diff - all three must be lockable.
Well said Tony, but liable to confuse dreamers. Being able to drive ALL wheels at once is what makes a vehicle 4wd. Nothing else qualifies. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 19th of March 2023 03:46:05 PM
Whenarewethere said
05:12 PM Mar 19, 2023
Just get a Land Rover & it will work it out.
KJB said
05:23 PM Mar 19, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Tony LEE wrote:
Vehicle can only be 4WD if it has lockable or limited slip front and back diffs Same with those with a centre diff - all three must be lockable.
Well said Tony, but liable to confuse dreamers. Being able to drive ALL wheels at once is what makes a vehicle 4wd. Nothing else qualifies. Cheers
Driving All 4 wheels once engaged.....not just sometimes or when it just feels like it.........!
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 19th of March 2023 03:46:05 PM
Rusty W said
05:30 PM Mar 19, 2023
So, does my wife's Lancer qualify as 4wd. It has a limited slip rear diff, centre diff lock, traction control and five inches ground clearance ?
Bulldozer said
06:38 PM Mar 19, 2023
Rusty W wrote:
So, does my wife's Lancer qualify as 4wd. It has a limited slip rear diff, centre diff lock, traction control and five inches ground clearance ?
Correct, But who makes the rules? 4WD Awd terminology ? May be the beard strokers at the camp fires. then all the band wagon riders jump aboard, hehehe.
-- Edited by Bulldozer on Sunday 19th of March 2023 06:39:32 PM
Bulldozer said
06:42 PM Mar 19, 2023
Tony LEE wrote:
Vehicle can only be 4WD if it has lockable or limited slip front and back diffs Same with those with a centre diff - all three must be lockable.
Who says so??
Bulldozer said
06:44 PM Mar 19, 2023
Bulldozer wrote:
Tony LEE wrote:
Vehicle can only be 4WD if it has lockable or limited slip front and back diffs Same with those with a centre diff - all three must be lockable.
Who says so??
May be the beard strokers at the camp tires .
yobarr said
08:04 PM Mar 19, 2023
Bulldozer wrote:
Bulldozer wrote:
Tony LEE wrote:
Vehicle can only be 4WD if it has lockable or limited slip front and back diffs Same with those with a centre diff - all three must be lockable.
Who says so??
May be the beard strokers at the camp tires .
No one has to "say so". It is simply an indesputable fact. NO other system drives all 4 wheels at all times, no matter what the conditions. Not negotiable. Sorry. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 20th of March 2023 12:58:12 AM
Cuppa said
08:18 PM Mar 19, 2023
Bulldozer wrote:
Bulldozer wrote:
Tony LEE wrote:
Vehicle can only be 4WD if it has lockable or limited slip front and back diffs Same with those with a centre diff - all three must be lockable.
Technically Tony is correct. It is the only way that all four wheels can be driven. Without diff locks or LSD's if one wheel is off the ground or spinning in mud/gravel or whatever there will be no drive to the other wheel on that axle. That is why folk have diff locks/LSD's which ensures that all 4 wheels are actually being driven.
Anyway for someone to say that an AWD is not a 4WD it's not a lot different to the banter between Landcruiser & Patrol owners, or the old Ford/Holden. None of it changes a thing about the vehicles. It's just a wind up. Some off road vehicles are more capable than others in some circumstances, some less so. We make our decisions which to buy & buy the vehicle of our choice, not to make the owners of other vehicles happy. So why be peeved what others think if you are happy with your AWD's capabilities. I have no doubt that my 'old school' Nissan Patrol with diff lock & LSD will manage terrain that your Pathfinder wouldn't, but your Pathfinder would be more up to date, have better fuel consumption & be more comfortable, & if you don't wish to go places our Patrol can take us then we probably each have what we want & thats why we chose them.
yobarr said
08:29 PM Mar 19, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
Bulldozer wrote:
Bulldozer wrote:
Tony LEE wrote:
Vehicle can only be 4WD if it has lockable or limited slip front and back diffs Same with those with a centre diff - all three must be lockable.
Technically Tony is correct. It is the only way that all four wheels can be driven. Without diff locks or LSD's if one wheel is off the ground or spinning in mud/gravel or whatever there will be no drive to the other wheel on that axle. That is why folk have diff locks/LSD's which ensures that all 4 wheels are actually being driven.
Anyway for someone to say that an AWD is not a 4WD it's not a lot different to the banter between Landcruiser & Patrol owners, or the old Ford/Holden. None of it changes a thing about the vehicles. It's just a wind up. Some off road vehicles are more capable than others in some circumstances, some less so. We make our decisions which to buy & buy the vehicle of our choice, not to make the owners of other vehicles happy. So why be peeved what others think if you are happy with your AWD's capabilities. I have no doubt that my 'old school' Nissan Patrol with diff lock & LSD will manage terrain that your Pathfinder wouldn't, but your Pathfinder would be more up to date, have better fuel consumption & be more comfortable, & if you don't wish to go places our Patrol can take us then we probably each have what we want & thats why we chose them.
Much logic there Cuppa, but all we who know stuff are trying to do is help make those who THINK they have 4wds realise that they don't. An AWD is NOT a 4wd. Not even close. Sorry folks. Cheers
Rusty W said
08:46 PM Mar 19, 2023
So what category do we put the chev/ford blitz in, pretty sure they didn't have ABS, crawl control, LSDs and most of the other fancy stuff that the experts say you must have to make it a 4WD. (just stirring the pot ha ha)
Bulldozer said
09:02 PM Mar 19, 2023
So why did Nissan put a 4WD badge on my Pathfinder? Not my doing, I didn't buy it to go rock hopping.
Cuppa said
10:18 PM Mar 19, 2023
Bulldozer wrote:
So why did Nissan put a 4WD badge on my Pathfinder?
Probably the same reason so many caravan manufacturers plaster their vans with checker plate & call them 'off road' - to make'em look tough even if they're not.
Bulldozer said
06:57 AM Mar 20, 2023
Thank you all for your input. Very interesting.
RickJ said
08:11 AM Mar 20, 2023
I am not a mechanical person as such so I have limited understanding of cars.
My partner recently bought a Hyundai Santa Fe and I believe from reading the book it is classed as an AWD,
Ok, so that has already gone over my head but while reading the book that came with the vehicle it says that AWD works when needed but apparently when out on the highway during normal conditions its computer tells it to just work in 2wd.
This car has a selector for 4 varying driving styles as well.
I dont think we will be taking the Santa Fe off road, so to speak.
Cupie said
11:53 AM Mar 20, 2023
Oh dear!
Then according to this discussion, my GQ Patrol is not a 4WD. I must rush out & take off the badges.
Hang on ... is 4X4 the same as 4WD?
The Patrol uses the 4x4 term on the badges, so perhaps I can leave them on, but I may have to amend all the references to 4WD in the documentation.
It doesn't have lockers or any of the MODERN traction control et al.
Not that it matters one iota.
All rather esoteric and abstruse IMHO.
I wonder how all this applies to road signs where only 4WD high clearance vehicles are permitted.
LOL
rgren2 said
12:31 PM Mar 20, 2023
Cupie wrote:
Oh dear!
Then according to this discussion, my GQ Patrol is not a 4WD. I must rush out & take off the badges.
Hang on ... is 4X4 the same as 4WD?
The Patrol uses the 4x4 term on the badges, so perhaps I can leave them on, but I may have to amend all the references to 4WD in the documentation.
It doesn't have lockers or any of the MODERN traction control et al.
Not that it matters one iota.
All rather esoteric and abstruse IMHO.
I wonder how all this applies to road signs where only 4WD high clearance vehicles are permitted.
LOL
My hybrid Patrol has a Lokker in the front and lsd in the rear, also high and low range. Guess I must have a 4WD.
yobarr said
12:36 PM Mar 20, 2023
Cupie wrote:
Oh dear!
Then according to this discussion, my GQ Patrol is not a 4WD. I must rush out & take off the badges.
Hang on ... is 4X4 the same as 4WD?
The Patrol uses the 4x4 term on the badges, so perhaps I can leave them on, but I may have to amend all the references to 4WD in the documentation.
It doesn't have lockers or any of the MODERN traction control et al.
Not that it matters one iota.
All rather esoteric and abstruse IMHO.
I wonder how all this applies to road signs where only 4WD high clearance vehicles are permitted.
LOL
Your car is indeed 4wd, but the differece between the 4wd that you and many others have, and a real 4wd is that although your car will drive all 4 wheels it will only ever drive one wheel on each axle at any one time.
Many times I have seen so-called 4wds on an angle in drains etc with the two wheels on the high side spinning uselessly in the air. A real 4wd would drive ALL 4 wheels at once.
Just a couple of weeks I had my car and van, at 6800kg, off road in wet ground, and I came to a halt when in 4wd. Activating the airlockers front and rear allowed me to easily drive out of the wet area, thus saving me a loooong walk to the nearest assistance.
Unless a vehicle can drive all 4 wheels AT THE SAME TIME it is NOT a REAL 4wd. Hope this helps? Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 20th of March 2023 01:45:12 PM
Possum3 said
12:42 PM Mar 20, 2023
Cupie, I assure you GQ and GU Patrols are definitely Four-wheel Drive, as you well know. They may not utilise automatic whizz bangery but they are very capable off-road and tug vehicles in both 4 & 6 cylinder configurations.
I've owned both and have put them in places that most wouldn't dare.
One very capable off roader that no-one has mentioned is the little humble Suzuki - I have owned a "Drover" Trayback ute since new (1985) - a fantastic little beast that will work all day, run on an oily rag and get into places that Pat Callihan wouldn't.
Mind you it's ability to tow anything other than a small farm trailer is limited to it's braking ability to stop being dragged or pushed down hill.
Whenarewethere said
02:10 PM Mar 20, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Unless a vehicle can drive all 4 wheels AT THE SAME TIME it is NOT a REAL 4wd. Hope this helps? Cheers.
As long as you can go forward and not sideways, the time it takes to get there is irrelevant.
-- Edited by Possum3 on Monday 20th of March 2023 02:37:08 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
09:19 PM Mar 22, 2023
Hi Bulldozer,
My understanding of it is that the All Wheel Drive came into vogue when some sophisticated cars came out to be able to handle slippery conditions eg in Europe.
There was a Lancer that was AWD (my brother-in-law used one as a rally car) - they had a "slippery" clutch that brought the axle into play when there was slippage detected. He ended up at our place on a rally with no-wheel drive & had to "modify" the clutch to drive on the rear wheels only.
Soft 4WDs came out a few years ago - the Subaru (Leone, Outback, Forester) was the best of the bunch for quite some time - giving drive to the front wheels with a 1:1 & a lower ratio when required. Then others appeared on the market - X-Trail, RAV, etc. I saw a friend's X-Trail stop at a dirt ridge - we called her up to engage 4WD & the car went over the ridge easily but lifted one wheel due to the limited wheel travel.
I would suggest that 4WD (or 4X4) points to the more robust vehicle eg Nissan Patrols, Land Cruisers, Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Pajeros, Pathfinders, Jeeps - the sky is the limit these days electronic whizz-bangs with Isuzus, Navaras, Everests, etc.
Whenarewethere said
09:46 PM Mar 22, 2023
If really confused get a second hand Land Rover Perentie 6x6. Have seen a few of those around the outback & in Sydney!
Bud said
05:49 PM Mar 23, 2023
Hi all
Wait until you get bogged and then you will work it out. hard way to find out but it works.
This has been bugging me for a long time, I call all vehicles driven by 4 wheels as 4WD. And the amount of times Ive been corrected is ridicules. Oh Oh they say you cant call it a 4WD! its an AWD, and they go on and on and on. It peeves me. Really whats it matter? In what Bible gives the correct terminology? Im a retired Mechanic and quite familiar with all the systems. My new Pathfinder has 4WD on the tailgate. Its really up to the manufactures what badge they use. So I suppose i'll keep copping sh*t from all the experts.
AWD's are driven by pretentious people who think that their AWD isn't a 4WD, because it's a hard tractive surface vehicle.
AWD came out in Audi Quattro years ago and Honda has a AWD as do many manufactures but these are sedan, wagon or SUV configurations and don't feature High and Low Ranges.
My Ram is 4x4 with 2H, 4H & 4L so we'll say it's 4WD, has the Pathfinder got High & Low Ranges? if so you'd say it's 4WD.
That's how I see it.
AWD is not in the same league as 4wd. This has been covered extensively before on this forum, but I can't be bothered. Hopefully one of the members who has explained it before, and knows what he is talking about, will help you out. A typical "4wd" drive still is only ever 2wd but we won't go there either! Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 19th of March 2023 04:36:21 PM
4WD's also usually have; Limited slip Differential, Traction Control, Descent Control, Differential Lock - Additionally, Free wheeling hubs with the ability to lock, Ladder/Frame chassis, Robust suspension system are commonly found on true off-road vehicles.
Pathfinder has no low range. So I still call it a 4wd, so does Nissan! So who's BOOK OF RULES does the only 4wd is hi and low range come from? Thats what I want to know. No biggy, just my way of thinking.
Well said Tony, but liable to confuse dreamers. Being able to drive ALL wheels at once is what makes a vehicle 4wd. Nothing else qualifies. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 19th of March 2023 03:46:05 PM
Just get a Land Rover & it will work it out.
Correct, But who makes the rules? 4WD Awd terminology ? May be the beard strokers at the camp fires. then all the band wagon riders jump aboard, hehehe.
-- Edited by Bulldozer on Sunday 19th of March 2023 06:39:32 PM
Who says so??
May be the beard strokers at the camp tires .
No one has to "say so". It is simply an indesputable fact. NO other system drives all 4 wheels at all times, no matter what the conditions. Not negotiable. Sorry. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 20th of March 2023 12:58:12 AM
Much logic there Cuppa, but all we who know stuff are trying to do is help make those who THINK they have 4wds realise that they don't. An AWD is NOT a 4wd. Not even close. Sorry folks. Cheers
Probably the same reason so many caravan manufacturers plaster their vans with checker plate & call them 'off road' - to make'em look tough even if they're not.
My partner recently bought a Hyundai Santa Fe and I believe from reading the book it is classed as an AWD,
Ok, so that has already gone over my head but while reading the book that came with the vehicle it says that AWD works when needed but apparently when out on the highway during normal conditions its computer tells it to just work in 2wd.
This car has a selector for 4 varying driving styles as well.
I dont think we will be taking the Santa Fe off road, so to speak.
Oh dear!
Then according to this discussion, my GQ Patrol is not a 4WD. I must rush out & take off the badges.
Hang on ... is 4X4 the same as 4WD?
The Patrol uses the 4x4 term on the badges, so perhaps I can leave them on, but I may have to amend all the references to 4WD in the documentation.
It doesn't have lockers or any of the MODERN traction control et al.
Not that it matters one iota.
All rather esoteric and abstruse IMHO.
I wonder how all this applies to road signs where only 4WD high clearance vehicles are permitted.
LOL
My hybrid Patrol has a Lokker in the front and lsd in the rear, also high and low range. Guess I must have a 4WD.
Your car is indeed 4wd, but the differece between the 4wd that you and many others have, and a real 4wd is that although your car will drive all 4 wheels it will only ever drive one wheel on each axle at any one time.
Many times I have seen so-called 4wds on an angle in drains etc with the two wheels on the high side spinning uselessly in the air. A real 4wd would drive ALL 4 wheels at once.
Just a couple of weeks I had my car and van, at 6800kg, off road in wet ground, and I came to a halt when in 4wd. Activating the airlockers front and rear allowed me to easily drive out of the wet area, thus saving me a loooong walk to the nearest assistance.
Unless a vehicle can drive all 4 wheels AT THE SAME TIME it is NOT a REAL 4wd. Hope this helps? Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 20th of March 2023 01:45:12 PM
I've owned both and have put them in places that most wouldn't dare.
One very capable off roader that no-one has mentioned is the little humble Suzuki - I have owned a "Drover" Trayback ute since new (1985) - a fantastic little beast that will work all day, run on an oily rag and get into places that Pat Callihan wouldn't.
Mind you it's ability to tow anything other than a small farm trailer is limited to it's braking ability to stop being dragged or pushed down hill.
Even then, crap tyres can be embarrassing!
https://youtu.be/R5VobNcgRvc
Clickable link www.youtube.com/watch
As long as you can go forward and not sideways, the time it takes to get there is irrelevant.
-- Edited by Possum3 on Monday 20th of March 2023 02:37:08 PM
My understanding of it is that the All Wheel Drive came into vogue when some sophisticated cars came out to be able to handle slippery conditions eg in Europe.
There was a Lancer that was AWD (my brother-in-law used one as a rally car) - they had a "slippery" clutch that brought the axle into play when there was slippage detected. He ended up at our place on a rally with no-wheel drive & had to "modify" the clutch to drive on the rear wheels only.
Soft 4WDs came out a few years ago - the Subaru (Leone, Outback, Forester) was the best of the bunch for quite some time - giving drive to the front wheels with a 1:1 & a lower ratio when required. Then others appeared on the market - X-Trail, RAV, etc. I saw a friend's X-Trail stop at a dirt ridge - we called her up to engage 4WD & the car went over the ridge easily but lifted one wheel due to the limited wheel travel.
I would suggest that 4WD (or 4X4) points to the more robust vehicle eg Nissan Patrols, Land Cruisers, Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Pajeros, Pathfinders, Jeeps - the sky is the limit these days electronic whizz-bangs with Isuzus, Navaras, Everests, etc.
If really confused get a second hand Land Rover Perentie 6x6. Have seen a few of those around the outback & in Sydney!
Wait until you get bogged and then you will work it out. hard way to find out but it works.