I expect that many (most?) forum members have become totally bored with climate change / transition to a greener environment posts.
This, my absolutely last post on the subject, is another 'reality check' for those who believe that it's not too late to avoid a tumultuous future; that greater uptake of solar generated electricity and greater acceptance of electric vehicles will save the day.
China's new coal plant approvals surge in 2022, highest since 2015, new research shows
Last year, China approved the construction of another 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power capacity, the equivalent of two large coal power plants per week and its highest in seven years, new research has shown. ...........................
If you don't believe in the science of nearly all of the world's climate scientists, then you are on the wrong track. Science has proven the world is heating at a alarming rate.
Just because China is commisioning two coal fired power plants a week, doesn't somehow make right or "I told you so". In fact, it is extremely disappointing.
The hope for the future is nuclear fusion, but that's a while away yet. In the mean time...less coal and gas...more wind and solar.
To back up my beliefs, we live in a off grid house, we are not connected to the grid. Our own power, tank water and a wood heater for warmth. We do have gas for cooking and gas/solar hot water.
In hindsight, seeing how the solar works so well...I would have put up a bigger solar system and gone all electric.
Collo.
Xyz said
03:13 PM Mar 3, 2023
Fine, go and live in China
dogbox said
03:48 PM Mar 3, 2023
solar, wind, hydro ect is all fine but i don't think we should close all our coal fired stations until we have surplus of the renewal stuff . the demand for power is increasing all the time .
as far as going to live in China they could be a long way in front of us if some condition or event reduces the amount of available sunlight (example serious volcanic eruption) i hope we leave our options open as to sources of reliable power.
Are We Lost said
05:50 PM Mar 3, 2023
Collo wrote:
If you don't believe in the science of nearly all of the world's climate scientists, then you are on the wrong track.
That isn't what he was saying. I believe he was saying how pointless any of our attempts are to slow climate change, the same as I have been saying in various posts. If we can achieve nothing with our efforts to fight it, then we should instead focus our efforts and money on living with it. If Australia met all emissions targets and more, our contribution to reduction in temperature would be totally insignificant.
The point I have made before ..... if you had a farm, a flood was coming and you had two choices, what would you do?
1. Lay sandbags knowing that there is zero chance of saving your crops and home ... or
2. harvest what you can of your crop and move your possessions to safety
You can only do one. Your large neighbour is choosing option 2 and will not help you.
If you choose option 1 you lose your crop and possessions. With no more money you are forced to put your farm up for sale. The neighbour, with money in the bank from harvesting buys it for a song.
If you choose option 2 you have at least some money in the bank and can work on ways to better deal with the next flood when it comes.
What would you do?
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 3rd of March 2023 05:55:03 PM
Xyz said
06:06 PM Mar 3, 2023
Its about time people stopped comparing what effect OUR emission targets in Australia are going to have. As a wealthy priveleged country we HAVE to be seen to trying to do the right thing. It frustrates me to see people are so self centred and can't see past the end of their own nose
Its obvious some people just don't get it, end of story
Ian
Are We Lost said
06:24 PM Mar 3, 2023
So which option would you choose?
Xyz said
07:09 PM Mar 3, 2023
Are We Lost wrote:
So which option would you choose?
Do you have children, and do you have grand children??????
Would you not want to at least start and make decisions fot "their" futures, or would you rather just stick your head in the sand and say i"ts just tooo hard?!?!?!?!?!"
Ian
Collo said
07:30 PM Mar 3, 2023
I'm not sure if I can follow the flooded farm example...maybe to many red wines!
How ever, Australia inadvertently is a major emitter of greenhouse gases by the way of iron ore exports...needs coking coal to produce steel....coal exports to China for their power stations.
So, we need as XYZ has already pointed out....we are a privileged country and we need to show an example. Every little helps.
Andrew Forrest has taken on board his need for his company to counter the potential emissions it may produce by introducing green hydrogen to power his trucks and trains.
When we had a problem with the ozone layer...the world got together and banned CFCs....the result some 30 years later, the hole is almost repaired.
It can be done....the world just needs to come together and aim for a common goal!
Collo.
Are We Lost said
07:57 PM Mar 3, 2023
Collo wrote:
I'm not sure if I can follow the flooded farm example...maybe to many red wines!
....................
It can be done....the world just needs to come together and aim for a common goal!
Collo.
The analogy.
Climate change is looming (assuming you are a believer) and is likely to have a significant impact on everyone .... this is the unstoppable flood coming down the river.
We can work towards reducing the effect on climate be reducing pollution, going greener, etc, but it costs. And Australia can achieve negligible effect ..... this is the sandbagging effort. Pointless in this case because it won't stop the flood, just as our efforts on climate change won't make a difference.
Or we do what China is doing and put the economy first ... this is the harvest what you can and bank the money. Then you have the money to make changes so you can better deal with the next one.
Your last sentence ... "It can be done ...." Maybe. I have no doubt IF all countries came together we could improve it. But the world is NOT coming together with the biggest polluters doing little, and the world population is growing exponentially. So unless a few billion die, there is no stopping it. If the biggest polluters are focusing on economy first, why shouldn't we?
Anyway, I will leave it there. As Mein said, too many of these discussions.
Xyz said
08:16 PM Mar 3, 2023
YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT EITHER, just start! Are we lost, sorry, but I think you have wandered ofcourse
Ian
dogbox said
09:09 AM Mar 4, 2023
as long as the population keeps increasing, the problem will keep getting worse.
yobarr said
10:13 AM Mar 4, 2023
Xyz wrote:
YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT EITHER, just start! Are we lost, sorry, but I think you have wandered off course.
Ian
On the contrary, AWL's comment are simply logical and common sense. Earlier you posted "We HAVE to be seen to (be) trying to do the right thing". Rubbish. Even if Australia ever managed to get to "Nett Zero", which will NEVER happen, the effect on 'climate change' would be so small it would be almost immeasurable.
If you think that Australia's efforts to reduce our miniscule contribution to 'climate change' are going to encourage countries like China, India et al to reduce their own contributions, then you no doubt believe in the Tooth Fairy? LaLa Land stuff.
Australia's planned closure of a few power stations in years ahead is a joke when we see that China is building two such plants EACH WEEK. And I wonder where they're getting coal to power these? Australia. It would be financial suicide for any Australian Govt to stop this supply.
Meanwhile the Greenies and 'Climate Change Scientists' with vested interests, supported by the press, have successfully conned the more gullible, and perhaps less intelligent, that we're doomed. 'Climate change' is a natural event that has happened regularly for millions of years. Cheers
Aussie1 said
10:43 AM Mar 4, 2023
Mein wrote:
I expect that many (most?) forum members have become totally bored with climate change / transition to a greener environment posts.
This, my absolutely last post on the subject, is another 'reality check' for those who believe that it's not too late to avoid a tumultuous future; that greater uptake of solar generated electricity and greater acceptance of electric vehicles will save the day.
China's new coal plant approvals surge in 2022, highest since 2015, new research shows
Last year, China approved the construction of another 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power capacity, the equivalent of two large coal power plants per week and its highest in seven years, new research has shown. ...........................
Watch out China, you will have Greta on your door step, that will have you shaking in your boots
yobarr said
11:58 AM Mar 4, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
Watch out China, you will have Greta on your door step, that will have you shaking in your boots
Shouldn't be a problem. Just talk logically to her which may well confuse her. Wouldn't it be great to still be around in 100 years to witness the world realisation that we've been victims of an unrivalled con-job. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 4th of March 2023 12:12:38 PM
Aussie1 said
12:54 PM Mar 4, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Watch out China, you will have Greta on your door step, that will have you shaking in your boots
Shouldn't be a problem. Just talk logically to her which may well confuse her. Wouldn't it be great to still be around in 100 years to witness the world realisation that we've been victims of an unrivalled con-job. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 4th of March 2023 12:12:38 PM
To true
mixo said
03:10 PM Mar 4, 2023
Well done to china and India for building coal power plants.
All I see is the west being hypocrites not wanting 3rd world counties to have what we have enjoyed for the past 100 years.
This new Green religion is so anti-human, its not funny.
I would love Greta to be in India and pull this stunt(she wont get past the front door(China) and try to explain to the millions who are in poverty and tell them they cannot have electricity.
The green movement is a political movement, not based on facts....
I believe in people, and sooner or later we will solve all the pollution evils in the world, we have done it before, and we can do it again.
mixo
msg said
05:46 PM Mar 4, 2023
Rather than spending ourselves broke on polluting solar panels and wind turbines, why don't we try to do something about real now actual pollution. e.g. Alge at the Sydney beaches this weekend.
Spend the money on cleaning up and preventing pollution of our waterways. soil and air.
Rather than moaning about the rubbish dumps in the ocean spend the money on cleaning them up.
Invent/build smokestacks that emit nothing.
Find ways to really seriously mitigate fires and floods.
There's lots of things that could be done but they won't because it won't make a dollar.
Bobdown said
04:41 PM Mar 7, 2023
Interesting Story...............
The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.
Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.
Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.
Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm
Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.
Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.
Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.
I must apologize.
I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post over 99 years ago. This must have been caused by Model T Ford emissions or possibly from horse farts.
Tony LEE said
05:15 PM Mar 7, 2023
Xyz said, fine, go and live in China.
Well, I did for a couple of years and while we were there travelled to the four corners of the country, and lived in a city where everyone carried a newspaper around long after they read it, so they could sit down without ruining their clothes. Until I sealed our apartment up properly, we had to wash our feet before getting into bed.
Fairly dire then, and probably not much better now, and nothing is going to change until everyone of 1500000000 Chinese and 1400000000 Indians and 4000000000 others elsewhere get their washing machines, 500 litre fridges, air conditioners and a car that a few hundred million sanctimonious, hypocritical westerners already own because they have already plundered most of the world to do it.
I don't blame the rest of the world for telling us to go stick our demands where the sun never shines
If we want them to clean up the world we stuffed long ago, then we have to pay to get it done.
yobarr said
07:38 PM Mar 7, 2023
Bobdown wrote:
Interesting Story...............
The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.
Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.
Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.
Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm
Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.
Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.
Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.
I must apologize.
I neglected to mention that this report wasfrom November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post over 99 years ago. This must have been caused by Model Ford emissions or possibly from horse farts.
Hi Bob. Great post, but probably too much logic involved for those who, like sheep or lemmings, blindly follow the propoganda produced by authors of the biggest con-job that any of us is likely to see in our lifetime.. Seems that there is far too much thinking involved for many to process.
Post should be compulsory reading for the "Head in the Sand" brigade. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 7th of March 2023 07:56:31 PM
Mein said
11:09 PM Mar 7, 2023
Interesting Story............... this report was from November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post over 99 years ago.
AFP Fact Check is a department within Agence France-Presse (AFP), a multi-lingual, multicultural news agency whose mission is to provide accurate, balanced and impartial coverage of news wherever and whenever it happens in the world on a continuous basis.
As guaranteed by its founding statute, AFP speaks with an independent voice free from political, commercial or ideological influence. These commitments are reflected in AFP's Charter and editorial standards.
Cuppa said
10:08 AM Mar 8, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Great post, but probably too much logic involved for those who, like sheep or lemmings, blindly follow the propoganda produced by authors of the biggest con-job that any of us is likely to see in our lifetime.. Seems that there is far too much thinking involved for many to process.
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 7th of March 2023 07:56:31 PM
You are free to believe whatever you choose, but if you consider that you are so much more capable of insightful thought than others then why not share your superior thinking?
I expect that many (most?) forum members have become totally bored with climate change / transition to a greener environment posts.
This, my absolutely last post on the subject, is another 'reality check' for those who believe that it's not too late to avoid a tumultuous future; that greater uptake of solar generated electricity and greater acceptance of electric vehicles will save the day.
China's new coal plant approvals surge in 2022, highest since 2015, new research shows
Last year, China approved the construction of another 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power capacity, the equivalent of two large coal power plants per week and its highest in seven years, new research has shown. ...........................
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-03/china-s-new-coal-plant-approvals-surge-in-2022/102048480
If you don't believe in the science of nearly all of the world's climate scientists, then you are on the wrong track. Science has proven the world is heating at a alarming rate.
Just because China is commisioning two coal fired power plants a week, doesn't somehow make right or "I told you so". In fact, it is extremely disappointing.
The hope for the future is nuclear fusion, but that's a while away yet. In the mean time...less coal and gas...more wind and solar.
To back up my beliefs, we live in a off grid house, we are not connected to the grid. Our own power, tank water and a wood heater for warmth. We do have gas for cooking and gas/solar hot water.
In hindsight, seeing how the solar works so well...I would have put up a bigger solar system and gone all electric.
Collo.
as far as going to live in China they could be a long way in front of us if some condition or event reduces the amount of available sunlight (example serious volcanic eruption) i hope we leave our options open as to sources of reliable power.
That isn't what he was saying. I believe he was saying how pointless any of our attempts are to slow climate change, the same as I have been saying in various posts. If we can achieve nothing with our efforts to fight it, then we should instead focus our efforts and money on living with it. If Australia met all emissions targets and more, our contribution to reduction in temperature would be totally insignificant.
The point I have made before ..... if you had a farm, a flood was coming and you had two choices, what would you do?
1. Lay sandbags knowing that there is zero chance of saving your crops and home ... or
2. harvest what you can of your crop and move your possessions to safety
You can only do one. Your large neighbour is choosing option 2 and will not help you.
If you choose option 1 you lose your crop and possessions. With no more money you are forced to put your farm up for sale. The neighbour, with money in the bank from harvesting buys it for a song.
If you choose option 2 you have at least some money in the bank and can work on ways to better deal with the next flood when it comes.
What would you do?
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 3rd of March 2023 05:55:03 PM
Its about time people stopped comparing what effect OUR emission targets in Australia are going to have.
As a wealthy priveleged country we HAVE to be seen to trying to do the right thing.
It frustrates me to see people are so self centred and can't see past the end of their own nose
Its obvious some people just don't get it, end of story
Ian
Do you have children, and do you have grand children??????
Would you not want to at least start and make decisions fot "their" futures, or would you rather just stick your head in the sand and say i"ts just tooo hard?!?!?!?!?!"
Ian
I'm not sure if I can follow the flooded farm example...maybe to many red wines!
How ever, Australia inadvertently is a major emitter of greenhouse gases by the way of iron ore exports...needs coking coal to produce steel....coal exports to China for their power stations.
So, we need as XYZ has already pointed out....we are a privileged country and we need to show an example. Every little helps.
Andrew Forrest has taken on board his need for his company to counter the potential emissions it may produce by introducing green hydrogen to power his trucks and trains.
When we had a problem with the ozone layer...the world got together and banned CFCs....the result some 30 years later, the hole is almost repaired.
It can be done....the world just needs to come together and aim for a common goal!
Collo.
The analogy.
Climate change is looming (assuming you are a believer) and is likely to have a significant impact on everyone .... this is the unstoppable flood coming down the river.
We can work towards reducing the effect on climate be reducing pollution, going greener, etc, but it costs. And Australia can achieve negligible effect ..... this is the sandbagging effort. Pointless in this case because it won't stop the flood, just as our efforts on climate change won't make a difference.
Or we do what China is doing and put the economy first ... this is the harvest what you can and bank the money. Then you have the money to make changes so you can better deal with the next one.
Your last sentence ... "It can be done ...." Maybe. I have no doubt IF all countries came together we could improve it. But the world is NOT coming together with the biggest polluters doing little, and the world population is growing exponentially. So unless a few billion die, there is no stopping it. If the biggest polluters are focusing on economy first, why shouldn't we?
Anyway, I will leave it there. As Mein said, too many of these discussions.
YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.
IT WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT EITHER, just start!
Are we lost, sorry, but I think you have wandered ofcourse
Ian
On the contrary, AWL's comment are simply logical and common sense. Earlier you posted "We HAVE to be seen to (be) trying to do the right thing". Rubbish. Even if Australia ever managed to get to "Nett Zero", which will NEVER happen, the effect on 'climate change' would be so small it would be almost immeasurable.
If you think that Australia's efforts to reduce our miniscule contribution to 'climate change' are going to encourage countries like China, India et al to reduce their own contributions, then you no doubt believe in the Tooth Fairy? LaLa Land stuff.
Australia's planned closure of a few power stations in years ahead is a joke when we see that China is building two such plants EACH WEEK. And I wonder where they're getting coal to power these? Australia. It would be financial suicide for any Australian Govt to stop this supply.
Meanwhile the Greenies and 'Climate Change Scientists' with vested interests, supported by the press, have successfully conned the more gullible, and perhaps less intelligent, that we're doomed. 'Climate change' is a natural event that has happened regularly for millions of years. Cheers
Shouldn't be a problem. Just talk logically to her which may well confuse her. Wouldn't it be great to still be around in 100 years to witness the world realisation that we've been victims of an unrivalled con-job. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 4th of March 2023 12:12:38 PM
All I see is the west being hypocrites not wanting 3rd world counties to have what we have enjoyed for the past 100 years.
This new Green religion is so anti-human, its not funny.
I would love Greta to be in India and pull this stunt(she wont get past the front door(China) and try to explain to the millions who are in poverty and tell them they cannot have electricity.
The green movement is a political movement, not based on facts....
I believe in people, and sooner or later we will solve all the pollution evils in the world, we have done it before, and we can do it again.
mixo
Spend the money on cleaning up and preventing pollution of our waterways. soil and air.
Rather than moaning about the rubbish dumps in the ocean spend the money on cleaning them up.
Invent/build smokestacks that emit nothing.
Find ways to really seriously mitigate fires and floods.
There's lots of things that could be done but they won't because it won't make a dollar.
Interesting Story...............
The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.
Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.
Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.
Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm
Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.
Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.
Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.
I must apologize.
I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post over 99 years ago. This must have been caused by Model T Ford emissions or possibly from horse farts.
Hi Bob. Great post, but probably too much logic involved for those who, like sheep or lemmings, blindly follow the propoganda produced by authors of the biggest con-job that any of us is likely to see in our lifetime.. Seems that there is far too much thinking involved for many to process.
Post should be compulsory reading for the "Head in the Sand" brigade. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 7th of March 2023 07:56:31 PM
Interesting Story............... this report was from November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post over 99 years ago.
Billy Joel
Honesty is such a lonely word
Everyone is so untrue
Honesty is hardly ever heard
And mostly what I need from you
https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.32EH2J7
AFP Fact Check is a department within Agence France-Presse (AFP), a multi-lingual, multicultural news agency whose mission is to provide accurate, balanced and impartial coverage of news wherever and whenever it happens in the world on a continuous basis.
As guaranteed by its founding statute, AFP speaks with an independent voice free from political, commercial or ideological influence. These commitments are reflected in AFP's Charter and editorial standards.
You are free to believe whatever you choose, but if you consider that you are so much more capable of insightful thought than others then why not share your superior thinking?