I was in the pharmacy today, waiting for a prescription, and heard two ladies (also waiting for prescriptions) in their sixties chatting about flu and covid inoculations; lady A was telling how she had had all four covid shots and a flu shot. Lady B replied that she had not had any of those shots are preferred to trust in The Lord rather than put all this chemical muck into your body because you never knew what they were giving you.
In the fullness of time lady B's prescription arrived and contained enough boxes of medication to half fill a shopping bag. :)
Plain Truth said
02:10 PM Jul 6, 2022
Could be she was getting prescriptions for non - believing members of her family.
yobarr said
02:18 PM Jul 6, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
I was in the pharmacy today, waiting for a prescription, and heard two ladies (also waiting for prescriptions) in their sixties chatting about flu and covid inoculations; lady A was telling how she had had all four covid shots and a flu shot. Lady B replied that she had not had any of those shots are preferred to trust in The Lord rather than put all this chemical muck into your body because you never knew what they were giving you.
In the fullness of time lady B's prescription arrived and contained enough boxes of medication to half fill a shopping bag. :)
Yes, unfortunately these types of people with an apparent inability to think logically, abound in society. Perhaps some of her medication contained brain-food? Cheers
Mike Harding said
02:20 PM Jul 6, 2022
Plain Truth wrote:
Could be she was getting prescriptions for non - believing members of her family.
It could be at that PT: perhaps I should amend my heretic ways?
Plain Truth said
02:41 PM Jul 6, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
Could be she was getting prescriptions for non - believing members of her family.
It could be at that PT: perhaps I should amend my heretic ways?
Tongue in cheek reply,Bless you my son, say three hail whatsits,and make a large donation to the poor box on the way out.
And all is forgiven.
Mike Harding said
02:58 PM Jul 6, 2022
Plain Truth wrote:
Bless you my son, say three hail whatsits,and make a large donation to the poor box on the way out.
And all is forgiven.
They have been out of print for many years but if you can find them (check your library) may I commend the Don Camillo short stories by Giovanni Guareschi to you, they concern the daily life of a Catholic priest in the Po Valley in Italy and are beautiful, funny, and tolerant of human nature - they have been a good friend to me for over 50 years.
Plain Truth said
07:18 PM Jul 6, 2022
Will check it out Mike. Hope you have a good spot at Wentworth
Whenarewethere said
08:58 PM Jul 6, 2022
I was in the chemist today & bought some really nice looking pink coloured tweezers. They have a good profile for building scale models. Have bought them previously.
dorian said
04:18 AM Jul 7, 2022
God works in mysterious ways, or so I'm told. Perhaps s/he inspires the vaccine researchers to do his/her work on earth?
A man prays to God.
He prays: "God, please let me win the lottery."
A week passes. Nothing happens. He prays again.
"God, please let me win the lottery."
Again, nothing.
"God, please let me win the lottery."
After a couple weeks of this, he prays once more.
"God, please let me win the lottery." Suddenly, he hears a voice from the heavens.
"For heaven's sake, would you just go and buy a lottery ticket?"
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 7th of July 2022 04:23:50 AM
Corndoggy said
11:50 AM Jul 7, 2022
I have to have a laugh at some of these religious fanatics. Won't they be SO disappointed when they die that they will see the light, an angel will take them by the hand, and after a short walk will be in heaven, sitting at the table with God and all the others that have made it there. That's one bloody massive table, or do they do it in sitting sessions. Imagine how many meals that have to be cooked. How many rocks needed for bread. Problem is that when your dead you don't know your dead. If you don't know your dead how do you know you go anywhere.
Anyway, current news has had members of their own religious group have been arrested and charged, along with the parents, of a young child that died. The group prayed for God to heal this type 1 diabetic and denied this child ife saving medication for 6 days. Hopefully they will all be locked up for a lot longer than they will get. Bet they will all be praying for a light sentence. I imagine their God to be throwing his hands in the air saying " Leave me out of this one". Once convicted they can have years to prey for release. Won't they be disappointed when they serve every day.
Pity they couldn't see that the medication was given by God. If he didn't want us to have it, we wouldn't have it.
Buzz Lightbulb said
01:46 PM Jul 7, 2022
Although this is a forbidden topic I quite like it.
I can't find it now but there's a video or something about professor Brian Cox explaining that ghosts or spirits can't exist according to the laws of thermodynamics, but that's science for you.
Ivan 01 said
01:50 PM Jul 7, 2022
God help you blokes when Cindy sees this.
Mike Harding said
02:35 PM Jul 7, 2022
I'll make it clear I am an atheist but I am a supporter of most religions and people's right to follow them - religions generally bring good to the world, please don't mock what other people hold dear and, at the end of the day... you don't *know* whether there is a god or not, do you?
As for science: it cannot explain quantum entanglement but such a mechanism most certainly exists. Despite our current arrogance we do not know everything.
----
PT: Thank you, yes I am camped in a delightful spot in forest and right on the water, pelicans are regular visitors and I think I glimpsed a platypus the other day also it's close to Wentworth and not far to Mildura so a delightful location with all facilities nearby... for what more could a nomad ask? :)
Plain Truth said
03:10 PM Jul 7, 2022
Sounds like you are down past lock 10
dorian said
03:29 PM Jul 7, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
I can't find it now but there's a video or something about professor Brian Cox explaining that ghosts or spirits can't exist according to the laws of thermodynamics, but that's science for you.
Not what you're looking for but ...
Is Hell exothermic or endothermic?
Hell from an engineering approach
The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington engineering mid term. The answer was so profound that the Professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.
Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or Endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
"First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:
If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year, "...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you." and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then, #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze."
This student received the only A.
Plain Truth said
07:25 PM Jul 7, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Although this is a forbidden topic I quite like it.
I can't find it now but there's a video or something about professor Brian Cox explaining that ghosts or spirits can't exist according to the laws of thermodynamics, but that's science for you.
I wonder who made the rule of thermodynamics for the scientists to find.
Blues Man said
08:06 AM Jul 8, 2022
Corndoggy wrote:
I have to have a laugh at some of these religious fanatics. Won't they be SO disappointed when they die that they will see the light, an angel will take them by the hand, and after a short walk will be in heaven, sitting at the table with God and all the others that have made it there. That's one bloody massive table, or do they do it in sitting sessions. Imagine how many meals that have to be cooked. How many rocks needed for bread. Problem is that when your dead you don't know your dead. If you don't know your dead how do you know you go anywhere. Anyway, current news has had members of their own religious group have been arrested and charged, along with the parents, of a young child that died. The group prayed for God to heal this type 1 diabetic and denied this child ife saving medication for 6 days. Hopefully they will all be locked up for a lot longer than they will get. Bet they will all be praying for a light sentence. I imagine their God to be throwing his hands in the air saying " Leave me out of this one". Once convicted they can have years to prey for release. Won't they be disappointed when they serve every day. Pity they couldn't see that the medication was given by God. If he didn't want us to have it, we wouldn't have it.
Pity they couldn't see that the medication was given by God. If he didn't want us to have it, we wouldn't have
So true.
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:45 PM Jul 8, 2022
dorian wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
I can't find it now but there's a video or something about professor Brian Cox explaining that ghosts or spirits can't exist according to the laws of thermodynamics, but that's science for you.
Not what you're looking for but ...
Is Hell exothermic or endothermic?
Hell from an engineering approach
The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington engineering mid term. The answer was so profound that the Professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.
Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or Endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
"First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:
If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year, "...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you." and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then, #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze."
This student received the only A.
LOL
Izabarack said
01:25 PM Jul 8, 2022
Plain Truth wrote:
I wonder who made the rule of thermodynamics for the scientists to find.
Simply emergent knowledge from distributed neural networks. No one person involved. Kinda like all science, hey?
-- Edited by Izabarack on Friday 8th of July 2022 01:26:41 PM
Mike Harding said
02:32 PM Jul 8, 2022
It seems to me Izabarck you have missed PT's point:
If I understand him correctly he was asking why are the laws of physics (as we currently understand them) what they are and to extend his question I would ask are they the same in all universes?
Indeed, are there any other universes?
You don't know, I don't know nor does anyone else on this planet know so we should bide a while before we allow our cultural arrogance with the current belief that we know everything to overtake us.
Plain Truth said
03:56 PM Jul 8, 2022
Yes I was talking about the Law of Physics.
In the Scientific American Sept 2019 Vol 321 No3 there is an article called "Virtually Reality"
There is a contributor George Musser who put it this way
"Physics seems to be one of the only domains of human life where truth is clear cut The laws of physics describe hard reality.they are grounded in mathematical rigor and experimental proof.They give answers,not endless muddles.there is not physics for you and one for me but a single physics for everyone and everywhere.Physics often seems weird but that's a good sign - it is not beholden to preconceptions "(p.30)
When you look up and see all these Galaxies and Nebula that can only exist in a universe in which predictable and absolute laws of physics that are operating. If there are laws,where did these laws come from ? there must be a lawgiver.
If you want to believe it happened by chance,that is up to you. But when I am out camping,be it the Bush ,near the ocean or river or on a mountain or desert.
I stand still and have a good look around and what I see and take in didn't come from some primeval swamp.
-- Edited by Plain Truth on Friday 8th of July 2022 03:57:11 PM
dorian said
05:02 PM Jul 8, 2022
Plain Truth wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Although this is a forbidden topic I quite like it.
I can't find it now but there's a video or something about professor Brian Cox explaining that ghosts or spirits can't exist according to the laws of thermodynamics, but that's science for you.
I wonder who made the rule of thermodynamics for the scientists to find.
Here is thermodynamic proof that Heaven is hotter than Hell, based on evidence from the Bible:
The temperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads:
Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days.
Thus, heaven receives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from the sun, and in addition seven times seven (forty nine) times as much as the earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light we receive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute the temperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth power law for radiation:
(H/E)^4 = 50, where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300°K (273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798° absolute (525°C).
The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6°C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone [sulfur] means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, which is 444.6°C. (Above that point, it would be a vapor, not a lake.)
We have then, temperature of heaven, 525°C. Temperature of hell, less than 445°C.
Therefore heaven is hotter than hell.
-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 9th of July 2022 08:10:59 AM
dorian said
05:36 PM Jul 8, 2022
Plain Truth wrote:
When you look up and see all these Galaxies and Nebula that can only exist in a universe in which predictable and absolute laws of physics that are operating. If there are laws,where did these laws come from ? there must be a lawgiver.
If you want to believe it happened by chance,that is up to you. But when I am out camping,be it the Bush ,near the ocean or river or on a mountain or desert.
I stand still and have a good look around and what I see and take in didn't come from some primeval swamp.
Here is my take on the philosophy of religion.
We all understand that humans are constrained by physical and mental limitations. We perceive the universe through our senses and our intellect. Some people are born blind or deaf, so they will never understand sight or colour or sound. That is, there are aspects of their world which they are biologically incapable of understanding.
I would argue that there are fundamental aspects of our universe whose understanding is beyond our human biological and intellectual limitations. We are biologically programmed to expect that living things are born and die, inanimate objects erode and decay, cars break down, etc. If we could accept that the universe has no beginning and no end, either in space or in time, or in any other dimension, then we wouldn't need a deity to create it for us. That is, we wouldn't need to create something unexplainable to explain that which we cannot explain.
To put it another way, we are biologically incapable of understanding the concept of infinity unless we call it "God", and then we relieve ourselves of the need to understand it.
-- Edited by dorian on Friday 8th of July 2022 05:45:08 PM
Mike Harding said
05:50 PM Jul 8, 2022
dorian wrote:
I would argue that there are fundamental aspects of our universe whose understanding is beyond our human biological and intellectual limitations.
What are they then?
Oh Dorian! Your argument is logically flawed at a fundamental level and is simply a belief inversion of religious people arguing that there is a god. Neither you nor they can ever prove their point.
I reckon Mr Heisenberg has a lot to answer for.
dorian said
06:26 PM Jul 8, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
dorian wrote:
I would argue that there are fundamental aspects of our universe whose understanding is beyond our human biological and intellectual limitations.
What are they then?
Oh Dorian! Your argument is logically flawed at a fundamental level and is simply a belief inversion of religious people arguing that there is a god. Neither you nor they can ever prove their point.
I reckon Mr Heisenberg has a lot to answer for.
Either the universe has a beginning and an end, or it doesn't. If it does, then what existed before the beginning, and what will exist after the end? If it doesn't, then we are biologically incapable of understanding it.
Whenarewethere said
07:10 PM Jul 8, 2022
At the (for arguments sake) beginning, the universe was almost infinitely dense so time stops.
There was a stuff up & it all went wrong & there is stuff scattered everywhere.
It is slowing collecting in the far corners in black holes.
Eventually these masses will find each other & collect in one lump.
Then there will be another stuff up!
Izabarack said
08:46 PM Jul 8, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
It seems to me Izabarck you have missed PT's point:
If I understand him correctly he was
You clearly have a different understanding but as I replied as a reaction to my understanding, I am correct. Any understanding is correct from the perspective of the one comprehending what is put to them. Trying to persuade another to your understanding is always patronising and insulting as if anothers understanding is inferior or lacking in logic. If PT has transmitted a comment where the sent message has not been received in the way intended, then it is up to to PT to explain. First principle of effective communication is to review any response to a communication and clarify if necessary unless confusion is to reign off track.
Izabarack said
08:58 PM Jul 8, 2022
dorian wrote:
then we are biologically incapable of understanding it.
Like the example of Shakespeares monkeys and their infinite number of typewriters, when enough human minds (wet wear) collectively work on the problem, an understanding will emerge. In the meantime, not understanding should not result in anxiety at a level that simple explanations using supernatural entities are necessary.
Buzz Lightbulb said
08:01 AM Jul 9, 2022
I deleted my post.
I didn't realise that some people felt so strongly about ghosts. I thought that superstition mostly died out in Arthur Conan Doyle's era.
dorian said
08:06 AM Jul 9, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
I deleted my post.
I didn't realise that some people felt so strongly about ghosts. I thought that superstition mostly died out in Arthur Conan Doyle's era.
Eh? Were these feelings expressed publicly or privately?
I was in the pharmacy today, waiting for a prescription, and heard two ladies (also waiting for prescriptions) in their sixties chatting about flu and covid inoculations; lady A was telling how she had had all four covid shots and a flu shot. Lady B replied that she had not had any of those shots are preferred to trust in The Lord rather than put all this chemical muck into your body because you never knew what they were giving you.
In the fullness of time lady B's prescription arrived and contained enough boxes of medication to half fill a shopping bag. :)
Could be she was getting prescriptions for non - believing members of her family.
Yes, unfortunately these types of people with an apparent inability to think logically, abound in society. Perhaps some of her medication contained brain-food? Cheers
It could be at that PT: perhaps I should amend my heretic ways?
Tongue in cheek reply,Bless you my son, say three hail whatsits,and make a large donation to the poor box on the way out.
And all is forgiven.
They have been out of print for many years but if you can find them (check your library) may I commend the Don Camillo short stories by Giovanni Guareschi to you, they concern the daily life of a Catholic priest in the Po Valley in Italy and are beautiful, funny, and tolerant of human nature - they have been a good friend to me for over 50 years.
Will check it out Mike. Hope you have a good spot at Wentworth
I was in the chemist today & bought some really nice looking pink coloured tweezers. They have a good profile for building scale models. Have bought them previously.
God works in mysterious ways, or so I'm told. Perhaps s/he inspires the vaccine researchers to do his/her work on earth?
A man prays to God.
He prays: "God, please let me win the lottery."
A week passes. Nothing happens. He prays again.
"God, please let me win the lottery."
Again, nothing.
"God, please let me win the lottery."
After a couple weeks of this, he prays once more.
"God, please let me win the lottery." Suddenly, he hears a voice from the heavens.
"For heaven's sake, would you just go and buy a lottery ticket?"
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 7th of July 2022 04:23:50 AM
Anyway, current news has had members of their own religious group have been arrested and charged, along with the parents, of a young child that died. The group prayed for God to heal this type 1 diabetic and denied this child ife saving medication for 6 days. Hopefully they will all be locked up for a lot longer than they will get. Bet they will all be praying for a light sentence. I imagine their God to be throwing his hands in the air saying " Leave me out of this one". Once convicted they can have years to prey for release. Won't they be disappointed when they serve every day.
Pity they couldn't see that the medication was given by God. If he didn't want us to have it, we wouldn't have it.
Although this is a forbidden topic I quite like it.
I can't find it now but there's a video or something about professor Brian Cox explaining that ghosts or spirits can't exist according to the laws of thermodynamics, but that's science for you.
God help you blokes when Cindy sees this.
I'll make it clear I am an atheist but I am a supporter of most religions and people's right to follow them - religions generally bring good to the world, please don't mock what other people hold dear and, at the end of the day... you don't *know* whether there is a god or not, do you?
As for science: it cannot explain quantum entanglement but such a mechanism most certainly exists. Despite our current arrogance we do not know everything.
----
PT: Thank you, yes I am camped in a delightful spot in forest and right on the water, pelicans are regular visitors and I think I glimpsed a platypus the other day also it's close to Wentworth and not far to Mildura so a delightful location with all facilities nearby... for what more could a nomad ask? :)
Sounds like you are down past lock 10
Not what you're looking for but ...
Is Hell exothermic or endothermic?
Hell from an engineering approach
The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington engineering mid term. The answer was so profound that the Professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.
Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or Endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
"First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:
So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year, "...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you." and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then, #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze."
This student received the only A.
I wonder who made the rule of thermodynamics for the scientists to find.
Pity they couldn't see that the medication was given by God. If he didn't want us to have it, we wouldn't have
So true.
LOL
Simply emergent knowledge from distributed neural networks. No one person involved. Kinda like all science, hey?
-- Edited by Izabarack on Friday 8th of July 2022 01:26:41 PM
It seems to me Izabarck you have missed PT's point:
If I understand him correctly he was asking why are the laws of physics (as we currently understand them) what they are and to extend his question I would ask are they the same in all universes?
Indeed, are there any other universes?
You don't know, I don't know nor does anyone else on this planet know so we should bide a while before we allow our cultural arrogance with the current belief that we know everything to overtake us.
Yes I was talking about the Law of Physics.
In the Scientific American Sept 2019 Vol 321 No3 there is an article called "Virtually Reality"
There is a contributor George Musser who put it this way
"Physics seems to be one of the only domains of human life where truth is clear cut The laws of physics describe hard reality.they are grounded in mathematical rigor and experimental proof.They give answers,not endless muddles.there is not physics for you and one for me but a single physics for everyone and everywhere.Physics often seems weird but that's a good sign - it is not beholden to preconceptions "(p.30)
When you look up and see all these Galaxies and Nebula that can only exist in a universe in which predictable and absolute laws of physics that are operating. If there are laws,where did these laws come from ? there must be a lawgiver.
If you want to believe it happened by chance,that is up to you. But when I am out camping,be it the Bush ,near the ocean or river or on a mountain or desert.
I stand still and have a good look around and what I see and take in didn't come from some primeval swamp.
-- Edited by Plain Truth on Friday 8th of July 2022 03:57:11 PM
Here is thermodynamic proof that Heaven is hotter than Hell, based on evidence from the Bible:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hell-endothermic-exothermic/
HEAVEN IS HOTTER THAN HELL
The temperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads:
Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days.
Thus, heaven receives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from the sun, and in addition seven times seven (forty nine) times as much as the earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light we receive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute the temperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth power law for radiation:
(H/E)^4 = 50, where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300°K (273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798° absolute (525°C).
The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6°C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone [sulfur] means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, which is 444.6°C. (Above that point, it would be a vapor, not a lake.)
We have then, temperature of heaven, 525°C. Temperature of hell, less than 445°C.
Therefore heaven is hotter than hell.
-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 9th of July 2022 08:10:59 AM
Here is my take on the philosophy of religion.
We all understand that humans are constrained by physical and mental limitations. We perceive the universe through our senses and our intellect. Some people are born blind or deaf, so they will never understand sight or colour or sound. That is, there are aspects of their world which they are biologically incapable of understanding.
I would argue that there are fundamental aspects of our universe whose understanding is beyond our human biological and intellectual limitations. We are biologically programmed to expect that living things are born and die, inanimate objects erode and decay, cars break down, etc. If we could accept that the universe has no beginning and no end, either in space or in time, or in any other dimension, then we wouldn't need a deity to create it for us. That is, we wouldn't need to create something unexplainable to explain that which we cannot explain.
To put it another way, we are biologically incapable of understanding the concept of infinity unless we call it "God", and then we relieve ourselves of the need to understand it.
-- Edited by dorian on Friday 8th of July 2022 05:45:08 PM
What are they then?
Oh Dorian! Your argument is logically flawed at a fundamental level and is simply a belief inversion of religious people arguing that there is a god. Neither you nor they can ever prove their point.
I reckon Mr Heisenberg has a lot to answer for.
Either the universe has a beginning and an end, or it doesn't. If it does, then what existed before the beginning, and what will exist after the end? If it doesn't, then we are biologically incapable of understanding it.
At the (for arguments sake) beginning, the universe was almost infinitely dense so time stops.
There was a stuff up & it all went wrong & there is stuff scattered everywhere.
It is slowing collecting in the far corners in black holes.
Eventually these masses will find each other & collect in one lump.
Then there will be another stuff up!
You clearly have a different understanding but as I replied as a reaction to my understanding, I am correct. Any understanding is correct from the perspective of the one comprehending what is put to them. Trying to persuade another to your understanding is always patronising and insulting as if anothers understanding is inferior or lacking in logic. If PT has transmitted a comment where the sent message has not been received in the way intended, then it is up to to PT to explain. First principle of effective communication is to review any response to a communication and clarify if necessary unless confusion is to reign off track.
Like the example of Shakespeares monkeys and their infinite number of typewriters, when enough human minds (wet wear) collectively work on the problem, an understanding will emerge. In the meantime, not understanding should not result in anxiety at a level that simple explanations using supernatural entities are necessary.
I deleted my post.
I didn't realise that some people felt so strongly about ghosts. I thought that superstition mostly died out in Arthur Conan Doyle's era.
Eh? Were these feelings expressed publicly or privately?