Way back when Servce Stations were just that, you drove in and it was full drive way service, and it had a full mechanics workshop. Then it evolved with self service pumps, a few goodies in the shop, the workshop was still there, on the major arterial roads some had diners.
The evolution saw the workshop disappear, the amount of spare like fan belts etc etc were replaced with more drinks and snacks, then the diner went and the service station evolved into a mini mart or a what mum forgot shop, which a lot of pressure on the old corner store. Then they evolved into a Service Center by attaching big chain fast food outlets.
Through the entire evolution employment in the industry grew, be it the mechanics Bay just moved off site, instead of driveway attendants they became console operators, diners, fast food stores short order cooks and waitresses, became food technicians, assemblers, sandwich artists order takers etc.
What becomes of that supply chain when the EV'S become the dominate mode of transport, gonski are the servos, mechanics workshop, auto parts stores, a majority of the fuel manufacturing and distribution system. What happens to those oil rich nations in the Middle East, Russia, Venezuela and many more whose economy is built around.
Once Australia rode on the sheep's back, now mining is a big contributor to our wealth, I'm lucky that I'm in the twilight of my life, I have little to worry about, but where will all those lost jobs go?
Whenarewethere said
07:50 AM Jun 26, 2022
Most of them closed in my area 10, 20, 30 years ago. My local one in Balgowlah Heights Sydney closed a couple of decades ago. Then my mechanic from Mosman in Sydney started servicing there which was more convenient for me but he stopped selling fuel in that location.
In 2018 the site was rezoned & turned into apartments.
Petrol stations here will get EV charging like the 14,118 petrol stations in Germany.
In Manly in Sydney a new laundromat opened with a café inside, it is flat out with sales. The same will happen with refueling charging, people will go to the café or shops instead of breathing in fumes.
My previous cars I had each for 18 years. My current car for 8 & it is had been the most reliable car. All it's needed is air & oil filters. Petrol filer gets replaced at the 10 year service. Replaced rear brake pads, front are still ok.
The dirtiest filter is the cabin air filter from all those polluting diesel engines. Probably I should sent then an invoice!
dorian said
08:10 AM Jun 26, 2022
Arab oil money has already invested in Western enterprises. They've seen the future.
The job market will no doubt adjust to the changes. For example, the labour unions predicted doom and gloom when computers became ubiquitous, but if anything they have created more work.
As for the sheep's back, there is a new technology on the horizon which may do away with shearers.
Biological defleecing trials produce promising results in 'potential game changer' for wool industry:
Service Stations will diversify unlike naysayers, I would say that most if not all fossil fuel companies are hedging their bets on the future right now if they are not they will disappear like everything else that tries to hang on when it's already gone.
Whenarewethere said
09:43 AM Jun 26, 2022
Kebbin wrote:
Service Stations will diversify unlike naysayers, I would say that most if not all fossil fuel companies are hedging their bets on the future right now if they are not they will disappear like everything else that tries to hang on when it's already gone.
I agree.
A bit like all those car wash facilities. They now provide all levels of cleaning. There is a cafe, restaurant, shop, kids play area. Next they will all have charging.
It's infinitely easier to install EV charging in all these places than the endless regulations of volatile fuel, even the way a fuel tanker has to be parked while filling up the underground tanks.
Less fuel tankers running around will be a good thing. Simply from security risks where drivers are required to contact police for safety & security issues. Even from being followed.
Another industry that has completely changed is banking. Decades ago there were armoured vehicles everywhere, I can't recall the last time I have seen one. Banking is doing better than ever. There is a plethora of new jobs, which have far more cross industry skills. & you are less likely to get shot!
It's also going to be more difficult to steal amps than steal petrol. Even if you do it is far simpler to fill the battery than fix a hole in the tank.
dorian said
09:55 AM Jun 26, 2022
How many of us miss "the good old days"? Not many, I suspect, at least not from a technology point of view.
smwhiskey said
10:51 AM Jun 26, 2022
Gundog wrote:
Way back when Servce Stations were just that, you drove in and it was full drive way service, and it had a full mechanics workshop. Then it evolved with self service pumps, a few goodies in the shop, the workshop was still there, on the major arterial roads some had diners.
What becomes of that supply chain when the EV'S become the dominate mode of transport, gonski are the servos, mechanics workshop, auto parts stores, a majority of the fuel manufacturing and distribution system. What happens to those oil rich nations in the Middle East, Russia, Venezuela and many more whose economy is built around.
from Wikipedia
"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by the English naturalist Charles Darwin (18091882) and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce."
Realistically the same applies to the good old service station. They will need to continue to evolve with the times or perish.
But personally, I'm still not convinced that EVs in their current form are the future. Based on a current technology that is realistically no more sustainable than fossil fuels. (as far as I know lithium is finite and when it runs out theres no more), its no more that a temporary stopgap measure. . So changing all the Fuel pumps with Charging stations may or may not be the best evolution path to continued survival. Future technical advancements may render the "Service Station" as we remember it completely obsolete.
But what do I know? In the early 80s I had to do a school project on what we thought the future would hold. So far I've completely missed the mark on 100% of my predictions. #clueless
Simon
Mike Harding said
11:09 AM Jun 26, 2022
smwhiskey wrote:
But what do I know? In the early 80s I had to do a school project on what we thought the future would hold. So far I've completely missed the mark on 100% of my predictions. #clueless
Don't feel lonely... an large proportion of today's acknowledged "experts" in many different fields must have been in your class too....
Gundog said
11:29 AM Jun 26, 2022
I don't know your involvement in the fuel industry my station on the rim of Melbourne had 36 bowsers, we sold between 7-900,000 litres of fuel a week, I had 3 consoles 42 staff includining 2 assistant managers, between 6am and 8pm I had 4-5 team members working 8pm to midnight 2, midnight to 5am 1 and 5 to 6am 2. I had 2 to 3 fuel tankers every day not including LPG and Adblue deliveries, I had up to !0 pallets of stock delivered Mon to Fri plus a number of other cold chain suppliers. We had a standalone H/Jacks inderpendantly managed and staffed on site.
If you converted to an e station, you would need zero staff the 15 minute to 1 hour charging time would not warrant the stock level and equipment as the customer through put would very low.
The heavy transport forecourt could remain open but they would be card operated no cash.
An example of evolution of fuel supply is unmanned sites, which can be found in many small towns.
Whenarewethere said
12:10 PM Jun 26, 2022
The last time I crossed Australia most of the petrol stations were fully automated. Even the ones in my local area at night are card only bowsers.
Fuel sales jobs is a Darwinian entity being replaced by a far broader range of services.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a charger at the vet or at the cemetery for us dinosaurs so our inheritors can charge their EVs while they drop us into the ground.
Whenarewethere said
12:29 PM Jun 26, 2022
Not to forget there has been a steady & substantial decline in people getting a driver's licence. I have a nephew who doesn't seem interested. They have a different view of the world.
NSW has previously had 2 Premieres who never had a driver's licence. Not that they need one as Premiere.
Craig1 said
02:39 PM Jun 26, 2022
Which two , when, might help explain some of the things they did or didnt do. Maybe like some our pollies who have never had a real job ?
Whenarewethere said
03:50 PM Jun 26, 2022
One of them was Nathan Rees & he did garbage collecting as a job in his life. A good apprenticeship for politics (which we are not allowed to discuss)!
So that is one, I'm not going to spoon feed all answers.
Buzz Lightbulb said
03:55 PM Jun 26, 2022
Service stations will have to install rapid EV chargers if they want to survive. There is a great opportunity for the service stations to take advantage of the captive audience for the 20 minutes or more whilst people wait for their EVs to be charged.
Food and drinks is the obvious one as long as the food is of reasonable quality. Drivers will bypass the poorer quality food options and stop to charge their EVs at the better food options.
There's also the opportunity to provide services such as WiFi, phone charging stations, Netflix type services, et cetera. People will take the opportunity of having to wait for their EVs to be charged to catch up on their social media and show watching using their phones.
There may even be shower and of course toilet services. Dunno points and water refills will attract caravans and motorhomes. It's a great opportunity as long as service station owners see those opportunities.
PeterInSa said
04:08 PM Jun 26, 2022
In southern Adelaide within 10Km's or so from where we live there is another 5 Fuel stations built in the last year, most have space for future charging points. Still is not something that I would invest our Superannuation in.
86GTS said
07:58 PM Jun 26, 2022
Why are they called Service Stations, they're fuel & food outlets?
Have you seen a guy with a pair of overalls working at one lately?
Why are they called Service Stations, they're fuel & food outlets? Have you seen a guy with a pair of overalls working at one lately?
If you read the origional post you could see that was covered
Gundog said
05:33 AM Jun 27, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Service stations will have to install rapid EV chargers if they want to survive. There is a great opportunity for the service stations to take advantage of the captive audience for the 20 minutes or more whilst people wait for their EVs to be charged.
Buzz you will go broke real quick, say $20 for a 20minute recharge, that's $60 an hour, $720 for 12 hours and that's if you had a 100% usage, wages electricity etc etc
Food and drinks is the obvious one as long as the food is of reasonable quality. Drivers will bypass the poorer quality food options and stop to charge their EVs at the better food options.
The popular option is one of the big fast food companies.
There's also the opportunity to provide services such as WiFi, phone charging stations, Netflix type services, et cetera. People will take the opportunity of having to wait for their EVs to be charged to catch up on their social media and show watching using their phones.
No money to be made from, all those things can be done in your car while recharging.
There may even be shower and of course toilet services. Dunno points and water refills will attract caravans and motorhomes. It's a great opportunity as long as service station owners see those opportunities.
That would be fantastic free water fills, empty you dunny, go and take a shower all free, and then drive off without spending a cent, yeah that's going to be profitable.
dorian said
07:10 AM Jun 27, 2022
I think EV charging stations will only be used by long distance travellers. The rest would be charged from home base via an overnight umbilical cord. In the worst case, if you're caught with a low battery, you would only need a quick charge to get you home. Perhaps EV charging outlets could be operated as a public service, like public phone booths.
Ivan 01 said
08:42 AM Jun 27, 2022
It is becoming fairly obvious that none of these logistics have been thought out and it also seems that some just dont have a clue as to business costs.
I think it is obvious that most of these cars will be regularly charged at home as per the topic that was locked, with the top up situation being from workplace and retail outlets.
The opportunity for retail outlets to target vehicle recharging as main core business is just not feasible unless those using the facilities to charge actually pay for the service
Although I do not in any way agree with this it may be realised that state governments will need to set up charging outlets en mass, with payments by credit card or client card. These facilities need not be a bricks and mortar building as such except maybe for shelter awnings over the charging poles. They do not need to sell milk and lollies and one appointed manager / supervisor could look after several sites. The cost to manage and maintain these outlets should be calculated into the price of the power that they are serving.
I am personally against this as I dont believe any government has the ability to actually run any business on a profitable basis but at least the respective governments would have the ability to allocate land for the size of the facilities needed. They would also be in control of the electricity tax that will be introduced contrary to those who think this tax wont happen.
Then this raises the problem of how the electricity for car charging will be taxed appropriately when charged from home. Once again, I cant see how this will be fair. Will those with electric cars be required to install a bowser type meter at home so that the other power consumers arent forced to pay for those who choose to drive an electric car.
In the meantime lets all rush headlong into disaster.
Looking at Plugshare one can see the petrol stations are not doing themselves any favours.
Not that there is a charger yet, but I can see a petrol station near me close & nearby a large fruit shop, which itself adapted years ago as they said they would die if they didn't do things differently, we know the manager. They are now busier than ever after adding a butcher, seafood & expanding groceries. They would have folded.
They have a large car park & could easily install some chargers. They have also installed a mini café & are always busy.
Every entity has to adapt. I had to learn new skills & change, I was a bit slow at the time & missed out on work but in the end it paid off providing new services.
Ivan 01 said
08:54 AM Jun 27, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
Looking at Plugshare one can see the petrol stations are not doing themselves any favours.
Not that there is a charger yet, but I can see a petrol station near me close & nearby a large fruit shop, which itself adapted years ago as they said they would die if they didn't do things differently, we know the manager. They are now busier than ever after adding a butcher, seafood & expanding groceries. They would have folded.
They have a large car park & could easily install some chargers. They have also installed a mini café & are always busy.
Every entity has to adapt. I had to learn new skills & change, I was a bit slow at the time & missed out on work but in the end it paid off providing new services.
It is good that many of these power supply outlets are independent and to have them fitted into carparks is not a bad idea either.
It may be a problem as with most carparks the owners of that land want a return on the money to buy and establish it and therein will be another cost.
Private enterprise will always want a profitable return, it is just the way of business.
One off power charging outlets similar to those we have in NQ just wont hack it when the volume of cars needing power increases.
No one wants to address the tax.
Tax could be easily applied at a public charger but how is it applied from home.
Whenarewethere said
08:56 AM Jun 27, 2022
In Manly Sydney there are a lot of Units without parking. My street alone over 100 Units do not have any form of off street parking.
If a location has charging people will shop there.
Whenarewethere said
08:59 AM Jun 27, 2022
EVs are far more expensive & the tax is being paid up front on the purchase of the car. A bit like stamp duty on property.
Ivan 01 said
09:07 AM Jun 27, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
In Manly Sydney there are a lot of Units without parking. My street alone over 100 Units do not have any form of off street parking.
If a location has charging people will shop there.
The need to shop exists even without having to charge a car.
That is why the carparks are there in the first place.
Many shopping centres charge for parking now.
I believe an EV takes 15 to 20 minutes on a fast charge.
I also believe from experience that when we shop with a female we may be in that shopping centre for 2 plus hours.
Will these carparks have a valet service to move vehicles to longer term parking.?
As I said, a lot more thought needs to be applied.
In a perfect Australia, we would have large public charging facilities where many cars can be handled at once and those charging at home or at work will only be permitted if suitable Stand Alone Solar systems are installed and used.
Power theft will be the new normal.
Whenarewethere said
09:14 AM Jun 27, 2022
Ivan 01 wrote:
I also believe from experience that when we shop with a female we may be in that shopping centre for 2 plus hours.
Decades ago I very quickly learnt not to shop with females.
Kebbin said
09:17 AM Jun 27, 2022
Servo's will be more than EV charging points, Hydrogen will also be in the mix and maybe even replacement batteries in the less expensive cars as well as motorbikes. Restaurants & Cafes, car washes would be another along with petrol & diesel for a fair while yet.
So no need to panic Gundog it may never affect you except in price, that may go thru the roof and give a few Boomers early exits.
Whenarewethere said
09:25 AM Jun 27, 2022
When lead free petrol came in there was a long transition period.
It also wasn't the end of the world as a lot suggested. Actually the health of the population improved.
Way back when Servce Stations were just that, you drove in and it was full drive way service, and it had a full mechanics workshop. Then it evolved with self service pumps, a few goodies in the shop, the workshop was still there, on the major arterial roads some had diners.
The evolution saw the workshop disappear, the amount of spare like fan belts etc etc were replaced with more drinks and snacks, then the diner went and the service station evolved into a mini mart or a what mum forgot shop, which a lot of pressure on the old corner store. Then they evolved into a Service Center by attaching big chain fast food outlets.
Through the entire evolution employment in the industry grew, be it the mechanics Bay just moved off site, instead of driveway attendants they became console operators, diners, fast food stores short order cooks and waitresses, became food technicians, assemblers, sandwich artists order takers etc.
What becomes of that supply chain when the EV'S become the dominate mode of transport, gonski are the servos, mechanics workshop, auto parts stores, a majority of the fuel manufacturing and distribution system. What happens to those oil rich nations in the Middle East, Russia, Venezuela and many more whose economy is built around.
Once Australia rode on the sheep's back, now mining is a big contributor to our wealth, I'm lucky that I'm in the twilight of my life, I have little to worry about, but where will all those lost jobs go?
Most of them closed in my area 10, 20, 30 years ago. My local one in Balgowlah Heights Sydney closed a couple of decades ago. Then my mechanic from Mosman in Sydney started servicing there which was more convenient for me but he stopped selling fuel in that location.
In 2018 the site was rezoned & turned into apartments.
Petrol stations here will get EV charging like the 14,118 petrol stations in Germany.
In Manly in Sydney a new laundromat opened with a café inside, it is flat out with sales. The same will happen with refueling charging, people will go to the café or shops instead of breathing in fumes.
My previous cars I had each for 18 years. My current car for 8 & it is had been the most reliable car. All it's needed is air & oil filters. Petrol filer gets replaced at the 10 year service. Replaced rear brake pads, front are still ok.
The dirtiest filter is the cabin air filter from all those polluting diesel engines. Probably I should sent then an invoice!
Arab oil money has already invested in Western enterprises. They've seen the future.
The job market will no doubt adjust to the changes. For example, the labour unions predicted doom and gloom when computers became ubiquitous, but if anything they have created more work.
As for the sheep's back, there is a new technology on the horizon which may do away with shearers.
Biological defleecing trials produce promising results in 'potential game changer' for wool industry:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/biological-defleecing-wool-industry-game-changer/101161834
I agree.
A bit like all those car wash facilities. They now provide all levels of cleaning. There is a cafe, restaurant, shop, kids play area. Next they will all have charging.
It's infinitely easier to install EV charging in all these places than the endless regulations of volatile fuel, even the way a fuel tanker has to be parked while filling up the underground tanks.
Less fuel tankers running around will be a good thing. Simply from security risks where drivers are required to contact police for safety & security issues. Even from being followed.
Another industry that has completely changed is banking. Decades ago there were armoured vehicles everywhere, I can't recall the last time I have seen one. Banking is doing better than ever. There is a plethora of new jobs, which have far more cross industry skills. & you are less likely to get shot!
It's also going to be more difficult to steal amps than steal petrol. Even if you do it is far simpler to fill the battery than fix a hole in the tank.
from Wikipedia
"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by the English naturalist Charles Darwin (18091882) and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce."
Realistically the same applies to the good old service station. They will need to continue to evolve with the times or perish.
But personally, I'm still not convinced that EVs in their current form are the future. Based on a current technology that is realistically no more sustainable than fossil fuels. (as far as I know lithium is finite and when it runs out theres no more), its no more that a temporary stopgap measure. . So changing all the Fuel pumps with Charging stations may or may not be the best evolution path to continued survival. Future technical advancements may render the "Service Station" as we remember it completely obsolete.
But what do I know? In the early 80s I had to do a school project on what we thought the future would hold. So far I've completely missed the mark on 100% of my predictions. #clueless
Simon
Don't feel lonely... an large proportion of today's acknowledged "experts" in many different fields must have been in your class too....
I don't know your involvement in the fuel industry my station on the rim of Melbourne had 36 bowsers, we sold between 7-900,000 litres of fuel a week, I had 3 consoles 42 staff includining 2 assistant managers, between 6am and 8pm I had 4-5 team members working 8pm to midnight 2, midnight to 5am 1 and 5 to 6am 2. I had 2 to 3 fuel tankers every day not including LPG and Adblue deliveries, I had up to !0 pallets of stock delivered Mon to Fri plus a number of other cold chain suppliers. We had a standalone H/Jacks inderpendantly managed and staffed on site.
If you converted to an e station, you would need zero staff the 15 minute to 1 hour charging time would not warrant the stock level and equipment as the customer through put would very low.
The heavy transport forecourt could remain open but they would be card operated no cash.
An example of evolution of fuel supply is unmanned sites, which can be found in many small towns.
The last time I crossed Australia most of the petrol stations were fully automated. Even the ones in my local area at night are card only bowsers.
Fuel sales jobs is a Darwinian entity being replaced by a far broader range of services.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a charger at the vet or at the cemetery for us dinosaurs so our inheritors can charge their EVs while they drop us into the ground.
Not to forget there has been a steady & substantial decline in people getting a driver's licence. I have a nephew who doesn't seem interested. They have a different view of the world.
NSW has previously had 2 Premieres who never had a driver's licence. Not that they need one as Premiere.
One of them was Nathan Rees & he did garbage collecting as a job in his life. A good apprenticeship for politics (which we are not allowed to discuss)!
So that is one, I'm not going to spoon feed all answers.
Service stations will have to install rapid EV chargers if they want to survive. There is a great opportunity for the service stations to take advantage of the captive audience for the 20 minutes or more whilst people wait for their EVs to be charged.
Food and drinks is the obvious one as long as the food is of reasonable quality. Drivers will bypass the poorer quality food options and stop to charge their EVs at the better food options.
There's also the opportunity to provide services such as WiFi, phone charging stations, Netflix type services, et cetera. People will take the opportunity of having to wait for their EVs to be charged to catch up on their social media and show watching using their phones.
There may even be shower and of course toilet services. Dunno points and water refills will attract caravans and motorhomes. It's a great opportunity as long as service station owners see those opportunities.
Have you seen a guy with a pair of overalls working at one lately?
When the Lithium runs out.
That is American rubbish, we can leave them in the dust.
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/the-lost-tales-of-henry-hoke-ep-2---henry-hoke,-bush-mechanic/9653392
If you read the origional post you could see that was covered
It is becoming fairly obvious that none of these logistics have been thought out and it also seems that some just dont have a clue as to business costs.
I think it is obvious that most of these cars will be regularly charged at home as per the topic that was locked, with the top up situation being from workplace and retail outlets.
The opportunity for retail outlets to target vehicle recharging as main core business is just not feasible unless those using the facilities to charge actually pay for the service
Although I do not in any way agree with this it may be realised that state governments will need to set up charging outlets en mass, with payments by credit card or client card.
These facilities need not be a bricks and mortar building as such except maybe for shelter awnings over the charging poles.
They do not need to sell milk and lollies and one appointed manager / supervisor could look after several sites.
The cost to manage and maintain these outlets should be calculated into the price of the power that they are serving.
I am personally against this as I dont believe any government has the ability to actually run any business on a profitable basis but at least the respective governments would have the ability to allocate land for the size of the facilities needed.
They would also be in control of the electricity tax that will be introduced contrary to those who think this tax wont happen.
Then this raises the problem of how the electricity for car charging will be taxed appropriately when charged from home.
Once again, I cant see how this will be fair.
Will those with electric cars be required to install a bowser type meter at home so that the other power consumers arent forced to pay for those who choose to drive an electric car.
In the meantime lets all rush headlong into disaster.
Looking at Plugshare one can see the petrol stations are not doing themselves any favours.
Not that there is a charger yet, but I can see a petrol station near me close & nearby a large fruit shop, which itself adapted years ago as they said they would die if they didn't do things differently, we know the manager. They are now busier than ever after adding a butcher, seafood & expanding groceries. They would have folded.
They have a large car park & could easily install some chargers. They have also installed a mini café & are always busy.
Every entity has to adapt. I had to learn new skills & change, I was a bit slow at the time & missed out on work but in the end it paid off providing new services.
It is good that many of these power supply outlets are independent and to have them fitted into carparks is not a bad idea either.
It may be a problem as with most carparks the owners of that land want a return on the money to buy and establish it and therein will be another cost.
Private enterprise will always want a profitable return, it is just the way of business.
One off power charging outlets similar to those we have in NQ just wont hack it when the volume of cars needing power increases.
No one wants to address the tax.
Tax could be easily applied at a public charger but how is it applied from home.
In Manly Sydney there are a lot of Units without parking. My street alone over 100 Units do not have any form of off street parking.
If a location has charging people will shop there.
EVs are far more expensive & the tax is being paid up front on the purchase of the car. A bit like stamp duty on property.
The need to shop exists even without having to charge a car.
That is why the carparks are there in the first place.
Many shopping centres charge for parking now.
I believe an EV takes 15 to 20 minutes on a fast charge.
I also believe from experience that when we shop with a female we may be in that shopping centre for 2 plus hours.
Will these carparks have a valet service to move vehicles to longer term parking.?
As I said, a lot more thought needs to be applied.
In a perfect Australia, we would have large public charging facilities where many cars can be handled at once and those charging at home or at work will only be permitted if suitable Stand Alone Solar systems are installed and used.
Power theft will be the new normal.
Decades ago I very quickly learnt not to shop with females.
So no need to panic Gundog it may never affect you except in price, that may go thru the roof and give a few Boomers early exits.
When lead free petrol came in there was a long transition period.
It also wasn't the end of the world as a lot suggested. Actually the health of the population improved.