De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est = Of the dead nothing but good is to be said - Chilon of Sparta c. 600 BC
We assume a special attitude toward the dead, something almost like admiration for one who has accomplished a very difficult feat. We suspend criticism of him, overlooking whatever wrongs he may have done. - Sigmund Freud
Recently, on a Mackay community Facebook group, the untimely accidental death of a young man was reported. Apparently, the young man was well known and well liked amongst skate boarding participants / followers.
The (unofficial) account of the accident is that he was riding his motocross bike, which was not equipped with lights, on a main(ish) road at night, he tried to overtake a car and collided head on with a bus.
Close to 100 posts were made either expressing condolences to the boy's family, extolling the boy's virtues, or both. And, a petition has been started, to be presented to the local council, to have a local skate park renamed in his honour.
One group member posted that the real victim of the accident was the bus driver. She opined that he would have experienced considerable trauma as a result of being involved in the accident which, she further opined, he was not responsible for and was the direct consequences of the reckless actions of the deceased young man.
Well, a torrent of hate has rained down on the woman with one poster going so far as to say that he hopes she loses one of her children in an accident.
I wholeheartedly agree with the woman's commentary, but I wouldn't have posted the comments on that particular thread. It would by like a Buddhist, whilst standing amongst 100 Christians, yelling, "There is no heaven!"
And I strongly disagree with the proposal to rename the skate park in his honour. He may have been a well known and well liked young man but his final actions on this Earth were anything but honourable.
Anyway, I think the thread illustrates the depth of feeling within the general public towards the taboo of not speaking ill of the dead.
What are your feelings on the matter?
-- Edited by Mein on Wednesday 1st of June 2022 01:44:09 PM
Whenarewethere said
01:52 PM Jun 1, 2022
Rename the park & all entrance & management fees go to the bus driver. Two problems solved is one go.
Mike Harding said
02:13 PM Jun 1, 2022
An interesting question.
We should (must) all be responsible for our choices and actions, dying does not, and should not, turn someone into a saint.
We have a saying in English culture; "Do not speak ill of the dead" and there is sense in this because the dead cannot respond and speaking ill will likely distress those who are grieving BUT neither should we shy from truth, I guess what I mean is that there is a time and a place for such things.
Some people are simply evil and their death is of benefit to the rest of the human race. Pol Pot may have been kind to his mum but the world is better off without him.
My very close and dear friend, Eddie, chose to kill himself by walking in front of a truck, I think, at the time, him mind was disturbed but I've never really forgiven him for such a callous disregard of the poor bloody truck driver's feelings.
I suggest it was insensitive of the girl to make her comment in that place at that time (just youth) but I think she is right.
TheHeaths said
02:50 PM Jun 1, 2022
I agree Mike. The sentiment about the bus driver was reasonable, and I also think correct, just the wrong forum to express it.
yobarr said
03:25 PM Jun 1, 2022
No way known should this 'young man' have anything of consequence named for him, certainly not the renaming of an existing park. No matter what his virtues may have been, his final actions were those of a selfish inconsiderate person who had no concern for the safety of others on the road, nor, apparently, his own safety. The big loser here is the bus driver, who may never recover from this 'accident' caused by an irresponsible individual reportedly riding an unlicensed and unlit dirt bike at night on a public road. My sympathies go to the bus driver, and indeed to the young woman involved in this as she was simply voicing what should be abundantly clear to anybody with any idea of common decency. Sob stories about people whose own irresponsible and selfish actions caused their death do not sit well with me. Cheers
dorian said
03:40 PM Jun 1, 2022
There are plenty of people who have done similar things and have been given a Darwin Award ...
Cupie said
03:40 PM Jun 2, 2022
My immediate impulse is not to speak ill of the dead. If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Those who really know me would no doubt find it strange to hear me espousing these time worn sayings (clichés perhaps). LOL
Interesting to see how people trying to express the same or at least similar views choose different language. Just look at a few of the preceding posts.
The group member who highlighted the effect on the bus driver may have avoided the attack on herself by just stopping at that & not highlighting 'the reckless actions of the deceased' etc. Of course that is not excusing the totally unacceptable attack that sadly seemingly is part of todays social media.
Buzz Lightbulb said
02:42 PM Jun 3, 2022
My sympathies go to the bus driver, the young woman and the parents of the young man. Not however, to the young man himself.
yobarr said
02:45 PM Jun 3, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
My sympathies go to the bus driver, the young woman and the parents of the young man. Not however, to the young man himself.
This is the most intelligent comment you've made in days. Cheers
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:59 PM Jun 3, 2022
yobarr wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
My sympathies go to the bus driver, the young woman and the parents of the young man. Not however, to the young man himself.
This is the most intelligent comment you've made in days. Cheers
Is my apparent intelligence related to whether I agree with you or not?
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Saturday 4th of June 2022 11:29:04 AM
Clarky 1 said
12:21 PM Jun 4, 2022
The emotional reaction of the local residents is unfortunately split.
The young man acted foolishly and without any consideration to himself and others.
The bus driver did not go out to work to have to be involved in a fatal road accident and for that she will never be the same.
Have the service for the young man, be kind to the driver and to all others concerned.
Leave the park name as it stands, to honour a silly act be it deliberate or not should not be considered.
The mention of this is again strongly driven by personal emotion.
De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est = Of the dead nothing but good is to be said - Chilon of Sparta c. 600 BC
We assume a special attitude toward the dead, something almost like admiration for one who has accomplished a very difficult feat. We suspend criticism of him, overlooking whatever wrongs he may have done. - Sigmund Freud
Recently, on a Mackay community Facebook group, the untimely accidental death of a young man was reported. Apparently, the young man was well known and well liked amongst skate boarding participants / followers.
The (unofficial) account of the accident is that he was riding his motocross bike, which was not equipped with lights, on a main(ish) road at night, he tried to overtake a car and collided head on with a bus.
Close to 100 posts were made either expressing condolences to the boy's family, extolling the boy's virtues, or both. And, a petition has been started, to be presented to the local council, to have a local skate park renamed in his honour.
One group member posted that the real victim of the accident was the bus driver. She opined that he would have experienced considerable trauma as a result of being involved in the accident which, she further opined, he was not responsible for and was the direct consequences of the reckless actions of the deceased young man.
Well, a torrent of hate has rained down on the woman with one poster going so far as to say that he hopes she loses one of her children in an accident.
I wholeheartedly agree with the woman's commentary, but I wouldn't have posted the comments on that particular thread. It would by like a Buddhist, whilst standing amongst 100 Christians, yelling, "There is no heaven!"
And I strongly disagree with the proposal to rename the skate park in his honour. He may have been a well known and well liked young man but his final actions on this Earth were anything but honourable.
Anyway, I think the thread illustrates the depth of feeling within the general public towards the taboo of not speaking ill of the dead.
What are your feelings on the matter?
-- Edited by Mein on Wednesday 1st of June 2022 01:44:09 PM
Rename the park & all entrance & management fees go to the bus driver. Two problems solved is one go.
An interesting question.
We should (must) all be responsible for our choices and actions, dying does not, and should not, turn someone into a saint.
We have a saying in English culture; "Do not speak ill of the dead" and there is sense in this because the dead cannot respond and speaking ill will likely distress those who are grieving BUT neither should we shy from truth, I guess what I mean is that there is a time and a place for such things.
Some people are simply evil and their death is of benefit to the rest of the human race. Pol Pot may have been kind to his mum but the world is better off without him.
My very close and dear friend, Eddie, chose to kill himself by walking in front of a truck, I think, at the time, him mind was disturbed but I've never really forgiven him for such a callous disregard of the poor bloody truck driver's feelings.
I suggest it was insensitive of the girl to make her comment in that place at that time (just youth) but I think she is right.
No way known should this 'young man' have anything of consequence named for him, certainly not the renaming of an existing park. No matter what his virtues may have been, his final actions were those of a selfish inconsiderate person who had no concern for the safety of others on the road, nor, apparently, his own safety. The big loser here is the bus driver, who may never recover from this 'accident' caused by an irresponsible individual reportedly riding an unlicensed and unlit dirt bike at night on a public road. My sympathies go to the bus driver, and indeed to the young woman involved in this as she was simply voicing what should be abundantly clear to anybody with any idea of common decency. Sob stories about people whose own irresponsible and selfish actions caused their death do not sit well with me. Cheers
My immediate impulse is not to speak ill of the dead. If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Those who really know me would no doubt find it strange to hear me espousing these time worn sayings (clichés perhaps). LOL
Interesting to see how people trying to express the same or at least similar views choose different language. Just look at a few of the preceding posts.
The group member who highlighted the effect on the bus driver may have avoided the attack on herself by just stopping at that & not highlighting 'the reckless actions of the deceased' etc. Of course that is not excusing the totally unacceptable attack that sadly seemingly is part of todays social media.
My sympathies go to the bus driver, the young woman and the parents of the young man. Not however, to the young man himself.
This is the most intelligent comment you've made in days. Cheers
Is my apparent intelligence related to whether I agree with you or not?
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Saturday 4th of June 2022 11:29:04 AM
The young man acted foolishly and without any consideration to himself and others.
The bus driver did not go out to work to have to be involved in a fatal road accident and for that she will never be the same.
Have the service for the young man, be kind to the driver and to all others concerned.
Leave the park name as it stands, to honour a silly act be it deliberate or not should not be considered.
The mention of this is again strongly driven by personal emotion.
I just read about this:
A community undertaking
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/tender-funerals-doing-death-differently/100631330
It maybe something to consider as an alternative.
Yep, absolutely Buzz
Ian