Caravans purchased at a public auction are not covered under the ACA.
Rob Driver said
10:19 AM Mar 16, 2022
montie wrote:
Caravans purchased at a public auction are not covered under the ACA.
Mmm!
So virtually no protection at all.
Rob Driver said
10:27 AM Mar 16, 2022
My thoughts are when someone goes to the auction and buys the flood damaged van, brings it home, gives it a *lick and a spit* and then presents it for sale on
Ghost Gum and sells it to an unsuspecting buyer who thinks he is getting a deal and a van without the 9 month wait.
Is it just Buyer Beware?
montie said
10:54 AM Mar 16, 2022
Rob Driver wrote:
My thoughts are when someone goes to the auction and buys the flood damaged van, brings it home, gives it a *lick and a spit* and then presents it for sale on Ghost Gum and sells it to an unsuspecting buyer who thinks he is getting a deal and a van without the 9 month wait.
Is it just Buyer Beware?
Buy privately or at a public auction......caveat emptor.
DMaxer said
02:43 PM Mar 16, 2022
There are two types of defects in the sale of goods. There are patent defects that are defects that can be discovered by an ordinary inspection and then there are latent defects that would not be discoverable by an ordinary inspection.
If the seller disposes of goods to a buyer and at the time of the sale is aware of the latent defect, such as being in a flood or faulty workmanship, he will be liable to the buyer at common law. If a seller proceeds in the sale and either does not disclose the defect of which he was aware or feigns ignorance then the buyer will have an action.
In certain cases, the seller is also liable even if he didn't know of the latent defects, but should haver known,
Whenarewethere said
03:25 PM Mar 16, 2022
Even if there is some recourse. Is it really worth years of stress & expense, & possibly drop dead from the whole nightmare.
Buy something better & save elsewhere & enjoy your life. It's too short as it is.
dogbox said
03:38 PM Mar 16, 2022
montie wrote:
Rob Driver wrote:
My thoughts are when someone goes to the auction and buys the flood damaged van, brings it home, gives it a *lick and a spit* and then presents it for sale on Ghost Gum and sells it to an unsuspecting buyer who thinks he is getting a deal and a van without the 9 month wait.
Is it just Buyer Beware?
Buy privately or at a public auction......caveat emptor.
i agree ! i would think that the first buyer would know that they are flood damaged as they are sold as such, but the second buyer will be the bunny, the first buyer will have disappeared with the money by the time they discover the hidden damage
montie said
08:08 PM Mar 16, 2022
DMaxer wrote:
There are two types of defects in the sale of goods. There are patent defects that are defects that can be discovered by an ordinary inspection and then there are latent defects that would not be discoverable by an ordinary inspection.
If the seller disposes of goods to a buyer and at the time of the sale is aware of the latent defect, such as being in a flood or faulty workmanship, he will be liable to the buyer at common law. If a seller proceeds in the sale and either does not disclose the defect of which he was aware or feigns ignorance then the buyer will have an action.
In certain cases, the seller is also liable even if he didn't know of the latent defects, but should haver known,
The auctioneer clearly states in his pre auction statement that the van's are water damaged plus the ACA states that auction or private sales are not covered.
The QLD Tribunal QCat cannot rule on auction or private sales.
DMaxer said
08:08 AM Mar 17, 2022
If the auctioneer states that it is flood damaged then it is not a latent defect and therefore the buyer is on notice.
Certain bodies or tribunals exist and can make decisions based on statute law, the laws made by parliament. Unless that particular statute rules that the common law, the law that courts have made, is excluded, there remains a common law action.
Rob Driver said
08:32 AM Mar 17, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
Even if there is some recourse. Is it really worth years of stress & expense, & possibly drop dead from the whole nightmare.
Buy something better & save elsewhere & enjoy your life. It's too short as it is.
I think once again you missed the point.
It is not the buyer that gets it from the auction where everyone knows the van has been damaged by floods, it is the poor second or third hand buyer who becomes stuck with a faulty unit.
Those lining up to purchase at the auction are probably mainly two types.
Those who are or want to be the end user and take the gamble and those unscrupulous groups that will gain profit from the sale of damaged goods and are prepared to pass on these hidden faults to unsuspecting buyers.
I wonder what the law is for a dealer to purchase these vans and then on sell them to walk up customers without disclosure.
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:30 AM Mar 17, 2022
It's already been mentioned. The dealer knows of the food damage so must declare it.
montie said
04:21 PM Mar 17, 2022
DMaxer wrote:
If the auctioneer states that it is flood damaged then it is not a latent defect and therefore the buyer is on notice. Certain bodies or tribunals exist and can make decisions based on statute law, the laws made by parliament. Unless that particular statute rules that the common law, the law that courts have made, is excluded, there remains a common law action.
QCat do not have the power to decide or hear claims resulting from private or auction sales.
I agree, I guess you could always lodge a claim in the magistrates court if the amount of the claim would justify the cost involved in the litigation.
QCat can only hear and decide claims up to $100,000 anyway so any claim above that would have to go to a Magistrates court.
Unfortunately a few $000's of dollars doesn't go very far in a Magistrates court, especially if the claim goes to a full hearing.
I found this out the hard way just recently.
EyeWantItAll said
04:59 PM Jan 15, 2023
I have attached a list of vin numbers from the water damaged van sale if anyone is interested.
Flood damaged vehicles of any kind, caravans included, are considered a "Statutory Write-Off" and can never be re-registered in any state or territory.
It is illegal in all states to sell a write-off vehicle without declaring this to the prospective purchaser.
Their value is for scrap or parts
86GTS said
05:34 AM Jan 23, 2023
Whenarewethere wrote:
Even if there is some recourse. Is it really worth years of stress & expense, & possibly drop dead from the whole nightmare.
Buy something better & save elsewhere & enjoy your life. It's too short as it is.
Totally agree with that statement. A guy came rushing over to us in a free camp with a petition that he wanted us to sign.
He had an photo album full off images showing the faults on his caravan.
On the rear of the caravan was a large lemon motif & the name of the dealer/maker that he'd bought it off.
He looked terrible, his eyes were red & his hands were shaking like a leaf.
Poor bugger.
RickJ said
12:28 PM Jan 23, 2023
If I can ask a question.
Is the caravan or any vehicle for that matter listed as a *permanent write off* if the owner is smart enough not to mention it to his or her insurance company and just tows it home and does his own lick and spit and waits till it dries out and then sells it as you would any other van?
I might suggest that the money the owner of the flood damaged van stands to get from a normal private sale would be of higher value as opposed to the insurance company loss figure which I would imagine would be a lot lower than the potential sale price.
A *smart* owner might opt not to even talk to his insurance company.
yobarr said
12:49 PM Jan 23, 2023
Hylife wrote:
Flood damaged vehicles of any kind, caravans included, are considered a "Statutory Write-Off" and can never be re-registered in any state or territory. It is illegal in all states to sell a write-off vehicle without declaring this to the prospective purchaser. Their value is for scrap or parts
New tags? Nah, we won't go there. Cheers
RickJ said
12:53 PM Jan 23, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Hylife wrote:
Flood damaged vehicles of any kind, caravans included, are considered a "Statutory Write-Off" and can never be re-registered in any state or territory. It is illegal in all states to sell a write-off vehicle without declaring this to the prospective purchaser. Their value is for scrap or parts
New tags? Nah, we won't go there. Cheers
All manufacturers decals gone, a new tag and ID plate and voila we have a home made van.
Ivan 01 said
03:36 PM Jan 23, 2023
RickJ wrote:
If I can ask a question.
Is the caravan or any vehicle for that matter listed as a *permanent write off* if the owner is smart enough not to mention it to his or her insurance company and just tows it home and does his own lick and spit and waits till it dries out and then sells it as you would any other van? I might suggest that the money the owner of the flood damaged van stands to get from a normal private sale would be of higher value as opposed to the insurance company loss figure which I would imagine would be a lot lower than the potential sale price.
A *smart* owner might opt not to even talk to his insurance company.
That happens with cars and trucks all the time. Even back when I was still working it was common to have the owner clean the car up and re sell it particularly if it had little or no body damage,
Billy Cokebottle said
09:47 AM Jan 24, 2023
A fitter where I worked got one that had water through it when the creek flooded out near Marian. He cleaned it inside and out and took it to Bundaberg and sold it.
He said he was happy with the price he got for the van.
I alway wonder how happy the new owner was.
86GTS said
05:14 AM Jan 26, 2023
Billy Cokebottle wrote:
A fitter where I worked got one that had water through it when the creek flooded out near Marian. He cleaned it inside and out and took it to Bundaberg and sold it. He said he was happy with the price he got for the van. I alway wonder how happy the new owner was.
Our Ford Ranger was parked in our driveway one night when it was struck by lightning.
It hit the UHF aerial & fried all of the electrical system of the vehicle. To look at, it looked perfect.
It was ''fixed'' by a local auto electrician who worked on it for 3 months. It had to be re-programmed by the local Ford dealer twice.
It was all claimed on insurance at a cost of around $17,000.
When we picked it up the auto electrician advised us to get rid of it so we traded it in on a run-out model older Nissan Navara.
The sales manager was quite suspicious & could smell a rat because we were trading in a better car than we were purchasing. It only had 70,000kms on the clock & it had a lovely new shiny UHF aerial.
We held our nerve, picked up the new vehicle & never looked back.
The auto electrician had been test driving it to & from his workshop before we got it back.
Almost every day a different warning light appeared on the instrument panel which had been replaced, ABS, cooling system, oil etc.
We pity the poor bugger that bought it off the Nissan dealer.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Thursday 26th of January 2023 05:29:46 AM
I see on news reports at least one big Caravan assembler is having a flood damage sale on a number of vans.
There are some legal requirements with their sale and resale in Qld.
MDC was the brand indicated in the news report. Ch 9.
https://www.qld.gov.au/law/laws-regulated-industries-and-accountability/queensland-laws-and-regulations/fair-trading-services-programs-and-resources/fair-trading-latest-news/disaster-assistance/water-damaged-products
Mmm!
So virtually no protection at all.
Ghost Gum and sells it to an unsuspecting buyer who thinks he is getting a deal and a van without the 9 month wait.
Is it just Buyer Beware?
Buy privately or at a public auction......caveat emptor.
There are two types of defects in the sale of goods. There are patent defects that are defects that can be discovered by an ordinary inspection and then there are latent defects that would not be discoverable by an ordinary inspection.
If the seller disposes of goods to a buyer and at the time of the sale is aware of the latent defect, such as being in a flood or faulty workmanship, he will be liable to the buyer at common law. If a seller proceeds in the sale and either does not disclose the defect of which he was aware or feigns ignorance then the buyer will have an action.
In certain cases, the seller is also liable even if he didn't know of the latent defects, but should haver known,
Even if there is some recourse. Is it really worth years of stress & expense, & possibly drop dead from the whole nightmare.
Buy something better & save elsewhere & enjoy your life. It's too short as it is.
i agree ! i would think that the first buyer would know that they are flood damaged as they are sold as such, but the second buyer will be the bunny, the first buyer will have disappeared with the money by the time they discover the hidden damage
The auctioneer clearly states in his pre auction statement that the van's are water damaged plus the ACA states that auction or private sales are not covered.
The QLD Tribunal QCat cannot rule on auction or private sales.
I think once again you missed the point.
It is not the buyer that gets it from the auction where everyone knows the van has been damaged by floods, it is the poor second or third hand buyer who becomes stuck with a faulty unit.
Those lining up to purchase at the auction are probably mainly two types.
Those who are or want to be the end user and take the gamble and those unscrupulous groups that will gain profit from the sale of damaged goods and are prepared to pass on these hidden faults to unsuspecting buyers.
I wonder what the law is for a dealer to purchase these vans and then on sell them to walk up customers without disclosure.
It's already been mentioned. The dealer knows of the food damage so must declare it.
QCat do not have the power to decide or hear claims resulting from private or auction sales.
I agree, I guess you could always lodge a claim in the magistrates court if the amount of the claim would justify the cost involved in the litigation.
QCat can only hear and decide claims up to $100,000 anyway so any claim above that would have to go to a Magistrates court.
Unfortunately a few $000's of dollars doesn't go very far in a Magistrates court, especially if the claim goes to a full hearing.
I found this out the hard way just recently.
I have attached a list of vin numbers from the water damaged van sale if anyone is interested.
It is illegal in all states to sell a write-off vehicle without declaring this to the prospective purchaser.
Their value is for scrap or parts
Totally agree with that statement. A guy came rushing over to us in a free camp with a petition that he wanted us to sign.
He had an photo album full off images showing the faults on his caravan.
On the rear of the caravan was a large lemon motif & the name of the dealer/maker that he'd bought it off.
He looked terrible, his eyes were red & his hands were shaking like a leaf.
Poor bugger.
Is the caravan or any vehicle for that matter listed as a *permanent write off* if the owner is smart enough not to mention it to his or her insurance company and just tows it home and does his own lick and spit and waits till it dries out and then sells it as you would any other van?
I might suggest that the money the owner of the flood damaged van stands to get from a normal private sale would be of higher value as opposed to the insurance company loss figure which I would imagine would be a lot lower than the potential sale price.
A *smart* owner might opt not to even talk to his insurance company.
New tags? Nah, we won't go there. Cheers
All manufacturers decals gone, a new tag and ID plate and voila we have a home made van.
That happens with cars and trucks all the time. Even back when I was still working it was common to have the owner clean the car up and re sell it particularly if it had little or no body damage,
He said he was happy with the price he got for the van.
I alway wonder how happy the new owner was.
Our Ford Ranger was parked in our driveway one night when it was struck by lightning.
It hit the UHF aerial & fried all of the electrical system of the vehicle. To look at, it looked perfect.
It was ''fixed'' by a local auto electrician who worked on it for 3 months. It had to be re-programmed by the local Ford dealer twice.
It was all claimed on insurance at a cost of around $17,000.
When we picked it up the auto electrician advised us to get rid of it so we traded it in on a run-out model older Nissan Navara.
The sales manager was quite suspicious & could smell a rat because we were trading in a better car than we were purchasing. It only had 70,000kms on the clock & it had a lovely new shiny UHF aerial.
We held our nerve, picked up the new vehicle & never looked back.
The auto electrician had been test driving it to & from his workshop before we got it back.
Almost every day a different warning light appeared on the instrument panel which had been replaced, ABS, cooling system, oil etc.
We pity the poor bugger that bought it off the Nissan dealer.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Thursday 26th of January 2023 05:29:46 AM