Environmental groups around the world want all fossil fuel production to stop. One by-product of oil production is tar which is distilled from crude oil. The majority of roads and road repairs in Australia are made using tar. What are we going to use in the future for road production. Concrete? Its more expensive and takes longer to build, but is supposedly more durable. But they usually repair concrete cracks and holes with tar.
Rob Driver said
09:57 PM Mar 5, 2022
Derek Barnes wrote:
Environmental groups around the world want all fossil fuel production to stop. One by-product of oil production is tar which is distilled from crude oil. The majority of roads and road repairs in Australia are made using tar. What are we going to use in the future for road production. Concrete? Its more expensive and takes longer to build, but is supposedly more durable. But they usually repair concrete cracks and holes with tar.
Yes, for every solution to the *save the planet* argument there is always another problem created.
dabbler said
10:28 PM Mar 5, 2022
Many materials are being investigated to replace or augment petroleum in road building and in all climates from tropical areas to sub-arctic. Recycled plastic is being used to build roads that incorporate conduits rather than built separately. Trials also include suburban streets and high-speed highways. So far none have failed or produced substandard results. Most programs are aimed at reducing cost or both road building and materials' handling. We don't need petroleum products to build roads.
rgren2 said
10:41 PM Mar 5, 2022
There are Roman built roads still in use today.
Rob Driver said
10:49 PM Mar 5, 2022
There are some good roads that are built with concrete toppings. Even many bitumen roads are sitting on CTCR which is cement treated crushed rock. If I recall there is a section of the Hume Freeway that is or at least was made with a concrete surface. From memory it was a bit north of Goulburn. My very vivid memories of a concrete road was the Parramatta Road. Now that was a road where they tested denture glue.
My thoughts are that before we may even consider concrete over bitumen for the sake of the planet we need to have all mining and construction equipment converted to *save the planet* operating systems and we also will need to have permission from a miriad of *green governments* so we even have permission to build a road or mine the natural materials to build a concrete highway or road.
God (or a greenie) save a green frog or a three legged hopping bird or some other rare rodent that will become extinct the moment we drive in the first peg while surveying the new formation.
dabbler said
11:08 PM Mar 5, 2022
It's laughable that people think concrete is an environmentally friendly product. It's energy intensive and contributes a substantial percentage to CO2 emissions. Changes in asphalt production technology is reducing energy consumption and CO2 emissions a a greater rate than changes in concrete production technology meaning new asphalt 'based" roads will probably be built when concrete road production has pretty much ceased. As more and more re-processing of old road surfaces becomes the norm, we'll still see concrete but in recycled form rather than new resources being thrown at projects. Cost efficiency will drive these developments not the wishes and ambit claims from pressure groups.
Bow said
08:44 AM Mar 6, 2022
Coal is used in the production of cement.
Wanda said
09:07 AM Mar 6, 2022
The saving grace is, they won't be using this forum to get any ideas
Ian
Craig1 said
10:36 AM Mar 6, 2022
Quite a bit of NOISY, Glary concrete on Hume not far North of Albury.
Whenarewethere said
10:43 AM Mar 6, 2022
I have been on that road with acoustic insulation in the car makes a huge difference.
Rob Driver said
10:55 AM Mar 6, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
I have been on that road with acoustic insulation in the car makes a huge difference.
This post is not in the Jokes Section wawt
How planet friendly is that acoustic insulation?
Whenarewethere said
11:49 AM Mar 6, 2022
Romans were making green concrete. Maybe we can learn. Probably not!
Only when one burns tar & plastic is there an issue.
Buzz Lightbulb said
06:27 PM Mar 6, 2022
Plastic can be recycled into which could be used to make year.
There is concrete that doesn't emit CO2.
Greg 1 said
06:43 PM Mar 6, 2022
Plastics, resins and many glues are by products of oil. Shutting down the oil and coal industries without first having viable products to replace them would take us back to the dark ages.
The greens sit in their ivory towers coming up with these thought bubbles without a viable solution.
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:17 PM Mar 6, 2022
Like synthetic oil, plastics can be made form alternative materials if required.
Cheers,
Peter
Derek Barnes said
08:01 PM Mar 6, 2022
It all depends on whether the green alternatives actually work. Its like replacing plastic throw away cutlery with bamboo cutlery. The plastic cutlery usually works and doesnt taint your food whereas the bamboo alternative sucks all the moisture off your tongue, taints the taste of your food and generally is useless. I always take a set of plastic cutlery with me. So which green new road making materials will actually work?
dabbler said
09:57 PM Mar 6, 2022
You've probably driven on roads that are partially constructed from recycled materials as they're fairly common but the first road surface constructed entirely from recycled materials was completed in Adelaide in 2020. When SEQ's Logan Motorway was first resurfaced around 2000 they used a recycled material process from the Northern Hemisphere (Canada ?), it proved dangerous because climatic differences weren't considered and the entire 30km was relaid with a different formulation. Since then it's been worked, reworked and expanded 3 or 4 times. As for road bases, non-petroleum based geotextiles have been used for decades now although I don't know how widely. If you're truly interested there is a wealth of information on the net.
86GTS said
05:46 AM Mar 7, 2022
Coming from a Civil Engineering background including road design, most roads are constructed using the Water Bound Macadam method. Originally designed by a Scotsman.
They can be sealed using a variety of materials. Some sealing materials are longer lasting than others.
The sealing is the top layer that prevents water ingress into the lower compacted layers eventually causing potholes.
The road is made of compacted layers held together by water hence the name Water Bound Macadam.
Buzz Lightbulb said
09:14 AM Mar 7, 2022
Greg 1 wrote:
Plastics, resins and many glues are by products of oil. Shutting down the oil and coal industries without first having viable products to replace them would take us back to the dark ages. The greens sit in their ivory towers coming up with these thought bubbles without a viable solution.
There's probably enough plastic floating around in the waterways and landfill that would last us until we're all killed by climate change.
Environmental groups around the world want all fossil fuel production to stop. One by-product of oil production is tar which is distilled from crude oil. The majority of roads and road repairs in Australia are made using tar. What are we going to use in the future for road production. Concrete? Its more expensive and takes longer to build, but is supposedly more durable. But they usually repair concrete cracks and holes with tar.
Yes, for every solution to the *save the planet* argument there is always another problem created.
There are some good roads that are built with concrete toppings.
Even many bitumen roads are sitting on CTCR which is cement treated crushed rock.
If I recall there is a section of the Hume Freeway that is or at least was made with a concrete surface.
From memory it was a bit north of Goulburn.
My very vivid memories of a concrete road was the Parramatta Road.
Now that was a road where they tested denture glue.
My thoughts are that before we may even consider concrete over bitumen for the sake of the planet we need to have all mining and construction equipment converted to *save the planet* operating systems and we also will need to have permission from a miriad of *green governments* so we even have permission to build a road or mine the natural materials to build a concrete highway or road.
God (or a greenie) save a green frog or a three legged hopping bird or some other rare rodent that will become extinct the moment we drive in the first peg while surveying the new formation.
Ian
I have been on that road with acoustic insulation in the car makes a huge difference.
This post is not in the Jokes Section wawt
How planet friendly is that acoustic insulation?
Romans were making green concrete. Maybe we can learn. Probably not!
Only when one burns tar & plastic is there an issue.
Plastic can be recycled into which could be used to make year.
There is concrete that doesn't emit CO2.
Cheers,
Peter
It all depends on whether the green alternatives actually work. Its like replacing plastic throw away cutlery with bamboo cutlery. The plastic cutlery usually works and doesnt taint your food whereas the bamboo alternative sucks all the moisture off your tongue, taints the taste of your food and generally is useless. I always take a set of plastic cutlery with me. So which green new road making materials will actually work?
They can be sealed using a variety of materials. Some sealing materials are longer lasting than others.
The sealing is the top layer that prevents water ingress into the lower compacted layers eventually causing potholes.
The road is made of compacted layers held together by water hence the name Water Bound Macadam.
There's probably enough plastic floating around in the waterways and landfill that would last us until we're all killed by climate change.