I remember the "Four minute warning" in the UK in the 1960s and doing school practice for it.
I sometimes wonder which Australian towns the Chinese have pre-targeted to destroy as an initial strike to indicate to us not to resist their forthcoming invasion; Townsville, Albury, Wagga Wagga maybe....
This is why we should *currently* have nuclear armed submarines.
dorian said
03:26 PM Jan 8, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
I remember the "Four minute warning" in the UK in the 1960s and doing school practice for it.
I sometimes wonder which Australian towns the Chinese have pre-targeted to destroy as an initial strike to indicate to us not to resist their forthcoming invasion; Townsville, Albury, Wagga Wagga maybe....
This is why we should *currently* have nuclear armed submarines.
But 26 million people can't all fit on nuclear submarines.
dogbox said
03:36 PM Jan 8, 2022
we had to practice hiding under our desks , probably made us feel better
Corndoggy said
04:32 PM Jan 8, 2022
Nuclear bombs destroy everything leaving the land uninhabitable for many decades. No good for the Chinese, they want to move in straight away. Think about it. Where did the Covid come from. Just hasn't worked like it should have. But has worked as good as some other cheap Chinese **** that's brought into Australia that's broken in a couple of weeks.
Corndoggy said
04:33 PM Jan 8, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
I remember the "Four minute warning" in the UK in the 1960s and doing school practice for it.
I sometimes wonder which Australian towns the Chinese have pre-targeted to destroy as an initial strike to indicate to us not to resist their forthcoming invasion; Townsville, Albury, Wagga Wagga maybe....
This is why we should *currently* have nuclear armed submarines.
I'll support them if they do Canberra during a sitting time.
landy said
09:42 PM Jan 8, 2022
dorian wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
I remember the "Four minute warning" in the UK in the 1960s and doing school practice for it.
I sometimes wonder which Australian towns the Chinese have pre-targeted to destroy as an initial strike to indicate to us not to resist their forthcoming invasion; Townsville, Albury, Wagga Wagga maybe....
This is why we should *currently* have nuclear armed submarines.
But 26 million people can't all fit on nuclear submarines.
Who said anything about 26 million. They are just for our top politicians to slip away in.
oldbloke said
10:22 PM Jan 8, 2022
Dont worry, you can bet your right knacker every major city has been taegeted for the last 30 years. And some of the targets just might surprise you.
Covid was never germ warfare. If it was the death rate would be more like 80%
-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 8th of January 2022 10:24:40 PM
Mike Harding said
07:15 AM Jan 9, 2022
dorian wrote:
But 26 million people can't all fit on nuclear submarines.
Oh Dorian, don't be obtuse, it's tiresome.
dorian said
08:05 AM Jan 9, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
dorian wrote:
But 26 million people can't all fit on nuclear submarines.
Oh Dorian, don't be obtuse, it's tiresome.
I'm just being realistic. A handful of nukes landing on our major cities would kill 80% of us. The same number landing on a country of 1.4 billion people would give them a bloody nose.
If AUKUS is to be effective in standing up to the Chinese bully, we need to look for allies in Asia. Presumably these allies would need to have nuclear deterrents, too.
The reality is that China could shut down Australia in minutes with a cyber attack. Or it could kill our economy by controlling our access to their manufacturing sector, or by banning our exports.
In fact I contacted several politicians and agencies, explaining how tools produced by the NSA's Equation Group were now all over the Internet. I have a copy of one of these tools. These are designed to attack the firmware of storage devices and cannot be detected or removed by antimalware software. I only received two automated responses, nothing more.
Bicyclecamper said
11:06 AM Jan 9, 2022
Doing the range of 7000km of the Chinese nukes, puts our little town formally in the rockets range, and I would guess, we would be a good target as a warning. It would only kill 400 people and that would be enough to scare Morrison into selling his soul.
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:31 AM Jan 9, 2022
Dorian's right. Any country that wishes to invade Australia would use a cyber attack. It costs very little and more importantly, it is difficult to trace. A nuclear attack would be very obvious and a sensible attacking country would save its nuclear weapons for opposing countries that also have nuclear weapons. The worst thing Australia could do is have nuclear weapons. We'd then be a target for nuclear attack.
A cyber attack could easily destroy a society. First, the government couldn't govern without communication, not that the government is effectively doing that now. Second, just bringing down a few infrastructures would destroy Australia. No electricity => no fuel => no food => anarchy, riots and decimation of the population.
Corndoggy said
12:08 PM Jan 9, 2022
Just look at what happen in the supermarket now. 5 minutes after word that there is transport trouble in deliveries supermarkets are flooded and shelves stripped. But would a cyber attack on Australis by China (the most likely one) just stop with that? Would it escalate internationally? Where and how would any retaliation come from? How much will be destroyed? Scarey stuff.
Mike Harding said
12:17 PM Jan 9, 2022
I'll let the government know:
"Buzz Lightbulb and Dorian have no doubt the Chinks will make a cyber attack, so cut spending on conventional and increase IT and don't worry about their nukes because Corndoggy knows they won't use them.
No,no... I don't think any of them have any military or strategic planning experience at all but I have it in mind Dorian may have been in the Boy Scouts, it that helps...? Oh! No, sorry I don't think I'm allowed to write that on the forum."
Honestly! Why do you people make such fanciful assertions without a shred of evidence?
dorian said
01:16 PM Jan 9, 2022
It seems to me that China could build 100 submarines for the cost of one of ours, and they could probably do it in years rather than decades.
As for cyberwarfare, this is what the Russians are capable of:
I remember the "Four minute warning" in the UK in the 1960s and doing school practice for it.
I sometimes wonder which Australian towns the Chinese have pre-targeted to destroy as an initial strike to indicate to us not to resist their forthcoming invasion; Townsville, Albury, Wagga Wagga maybe....
This is why we should *currently* have nuclear armed submarines.
I'll support them if they do Canberra during a sitting time.
Remember the Russian agricultural machinery !!!
Mike Harding said
01:53 PM Jan 9, 2022
Dorian:
The major powers on the planet don't make this up as they go along: they each have thousands of very smart people and lots of very super computers which wargame this stuff, they continuously do strategic planning regarding possible attacks and they take into account stuff you and I are not, and never will be, aware of.
To assert that "The Chinese will do x" is stupidity of the highest order. They may do x but they may also do y and not z or they may delay z until the results of x are clear.
FFS Dorian - you should know this!
What I do know is that if we, like the UK, had a few nuclear armed submarines floating around in the depths with dead man handle links to Canberra or Pine Gap, wherever, then any adversary would be a bit cautious about what the results of a strike on this country would be.
bowiebd said
06:10 PM Jan 9, 2022
Why would China attack Australia when they own us?
oldbloke said
10:35 PM Jan 9, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
Dorian:
The major powers on the planet don't make this up as they go along: they each have thousands of very smart people and lots of very super computers which wargame this stuff, they continuously do strategic planning regarding possible attacks and they take into account stuff you and I are not, and never will be, aware of.
To assert that "The Chinese will do x" is stupidity of the highest order. They may do x but they may also do y and not z or they may delay z until the results of x are clear.
FFS Dorian - you should know this!
What I do know is that if we, like the UK, had a few nuclear armed submarines floating around in the depths with dead man handle links to Canberra or Pine Gap, wherever, then any adversary would be a bit cautious about what the results of a strike on this country would be.
Yep, they are a deterrent
dorian said
07:49 AM Jan 10, 2022
Far be it from me to proffer my views on Australia's defence strategy, but it seems to me that we have simply switched from ordering a fleet of conventional submarines to a fleet of nuclear armed ones. How would the original strategy have protected Australia?
Santa said
08:48 AM Jan 10, 2022
dorian wrote:
Far be it from me to proffer my views on Australia's defence strategy, but it seems to me that we have simply switched from ordering a fleet of conventional submarines to a fleet of nuclear armed ones. How would the original strategy have protected Australia?
Morning Dorian, our new submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear armed.
dorian said
08:52 AM Jan 10, 2022
Santa wrote:
Morning Dorian, our new submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear armed.
Now I'm really confused. Where is the deterrent, then?
Mike Harding said
09:08 AM Jan 10, 2022
dorian wrote:
Now I'm really confused. Where is the deterrent, then?
Emmm, eerrr... we don't have one.
dogbox said
10:24 AM Jan 10, 2022
can't really imagine CHINA or anyone else( maybe nth Korea) wanting to nuke us.
would they not want our natural resources and our infrastructure to remove them ?
a barren toxic landscape would be of no use to them , how long would we last if our supply lines were cut, we would be short of fuel in a matter of weeks
DeBe said
11:26 AM Jan 10, 2022
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Pipeline_ransomware_attack If fuel suplies can be affected so easily in America with a cyber atack. Then it wouldnt take mutch to slow Australia down as we dont realy have a reserve as such. Apart from suposed fuel purchased & stored in America.
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:46 AM Jan 10, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
I'll let the government know:
"Buzz Lightbulb and Dorian have no doubt the Chinks will make a cyber attack, so cut spending on conventional and increase IT and don't worry about their nukes because Corndoggy knows they won't use them.
No. I didn't say that. You are speculating.
No,no... I don't think any of them have any military or strategic planning experience at all but I have it in mind Dorian may have been in the Boy Scouts, it that helps...? Oh! No, sorry I don't think I'm allowed to write that on the forum."
Honestly! Why do you people make such fanciful assertions without a shred of evidence?
Probably, just like you, we have opinions and so express those opinions. I also have had a career in IT and know how easy it is to create a major disruption to a country via hacking from another country.
You, typically Mike, on the other hand, seem to find it easier to attack people's opinions rather than provide facts.
dogbox said
01:04 PM Jan 10, 2022
DeBe wrote:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Pipeline_ransomware_attack If fuel suplies can be affected so easily in America with a cyber atack. Then it wouldnt take mutch to slow Australia down as we dont realy have a reserve as such. Apart from suposed fuel purchased & stored in America.
not being much of an IT person ,would all the people who are working from home on their computers make it easier for these cyber attacks to happen to government sites
Mike Harding said
02:15 PM Jan 10, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
You, typically Mike, on the other hand, seem to find it easier to attack people's opinions rather than provide facts.
If you feel sufficiently confident in the veracity and worth of your opinion to publish it in order the world may benefit from your wisdom then, quite simply, you must expect criticism: and if that criticism stings you to the core them your mummy didn't bring you up to be anywhere near resilient enough.
peter67 said
08:50 PM Jan 10, 2022
Possum3 wrote:
Just reposting the OP, I think it started out as a joke :)
oldbloke said
09:46 PM Jan 10, 2022
dogbox wrote:
can't really imagine CHINA or anyone else( maybe nth Korea) wanting to nuke us. would they not want our natural resources and our infrastructure to remove them ? a barren toxic landscape would be of no use to them , how long would we last if our supply lines were cut, we would be short of fuel in a matter of weeks
Umm, i think you will find there are plenty of people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I remember the "Four minute warning" in the UK in the 1960s and doing school practice for it.
I sometimes wonder which Australian towns the Chinese have pre-targeted to destroy as an initial strike to indicate to us not to resist their forthcoming invasion; Townsville, Albury, Wagga Wagga maybe....
This is why we should *currently* have nuclear armed submarines.
But 26 million people can't all fit on nuclear submarines.
I'll support them if they do Canberra during a sitting time.
Who said anything about 26 million. They are just for our top politicians to slip away in.
Dont worry, you can bet your right knacker every major city has been taegeted for the last 30 years. And some of the targets just might surprise you.
Covid was never germ warfare. If it was the death rate would be more like 80%
-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 8th of January 2022 10:24:40 PM
Oh Dorian, don't be obtuse, it's tiresome.
I'm just being realistic. A handful of nukes landing on our major cities would kill 80% of us. The same number landing on a country of 1.4 billion people would give them a bloody nose.
If AUKUS is to be effective in standing up to the Chinese bully, we need to look for allies in Asia. Presumably these allies would need to have nuclear deterrents, too.
The reality is that China could shut down Australia in minutes with a cyber attack. Or it could kill our economy by controlling our access to their manufacturing sector, or by banning our exports.
In fact I contacted several politicians and agencies, explaining how tools produced by the NSA's Equation Group were now all over the Internet. I have a copy of one of these tools. These are designed to attack the firmware of storage devices and cannot be detected or removed by antimalware software. I only received two automated responses, nothing more.
Dorian's right. Any country that wishes to invade Australia would use a cyber attack. It costs very little and more importantly, it is difficult to trace. A nuclear attack would be very obvious and a sensible attacking country would save its nuclear weapons for opposing countries that also have nuclear weapons. The worst thing Australia could do is have nuclear weapons. We'd then be a target for nuclear attack.
A cyber attack could easily destroy a society. First, the government couldn't govern without communication, not that the government is effectively doing that now.
Second, just bringing down a few infrastructures would destroy Australia. No electricity => no fuel => no food => anarchy, riots and decimation of the population.
I'll let the government know:
"Buzz Lightbulb and Dorian have no doubt the Chinks will make a cyber attack, so cut spending on conventional and increase IT and don't worry about their nukes because Corndoggy knows they won't use them.
No,no... I don't think any of them have any military or strategic planning experience at all but I have it in mind Dorian may have been in the Boy Scouts, it that helps...? Oh! No, sorry I don't think I'm allowed to write that on the forum."
Honestly! Why do you people make such fanciful assertions without a shred of evidence?
It seems to me that China could build 100 submarines for the cost of one of ours, and they could probably do it in years rather than decades.
As for cyberwarfare, this is what the Russians are capable of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_cyberattacks_on_Estonia
Remember the Russian agricultural machinery !!!
Dorian:
The major powers on the planet don't make this up as they go along: they each have thousands of very smart people and lots of very super computers which wargame this stuff, they continuously do strategic planning regarding possible attacks and they take into account stuff you and I are not, and never will be, aware of.
To assert that "The Chinese will do x" is stupidity of the highest order. They may do x but they may also do y and not z or they may delay z until the results of x are clear.
FFS Dorian - you should know this!
What I do know is that if we, like the UK, had a few nuclear armed submarines floating around in the depths with dead man handle links to Canberra or Pine Gap, wherever, then any adversary would be a bit cautious about what the results of a strike on this country would be.
Yep, they are a deterrent
Morning Dorian, our new submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear armed.
Now I'm really confused. Where is the deterrent, then?
Emmm, eerrr... we don't have one.
would they not want our natural resources and our infrastructure to remove them ?
a barren toxic landscape would be of no use to them , how long would we last if our supply lines were cut, we would be short of fuel in a matter of weeks
not being much of an IT person ,would all the people who are working from home on their computers make it easier for these cyber attacks to happen to government sites
If you feel sufficiently confident in the veracity and worth of your opinion to publish it in order the world may benefit from your wisdom then, quite simply, you must expect criticism: and if that criticism stings you to the core them your mummy didn't bring you up to be anywhere near resilient enough.
Just reposting the OP, I think it started out as a joke :)
Umm, i think you will find there are plenty of people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.