Blue water pipe splitting laterally and circumferentially
Wingnut79 said
06:38 PM Jan 4, 2022
Hi All. Im new to the Forum. I have a Ranger 17ft van, 2012 model. Over the last 2 years I have had 3 breaks in the blue PVC pressure pipe under my van. I have cut out the section with the break and replaced it. I now carry spare pipe, couplings and elbows.
I de-pressure the water system when not in use. I often find the breaks when I test the water system just prior to traveling. Have other caravaners encountered this problem?
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:30 PM Jan 4, 2022
Genuine John Guest pipe, or a copy?
I have JG pipe in my MH that is 17 years old and never a problem.
Cheers,
Peter
Possum3 said
09:08 PM Jan 4, 2022
Welcome to GN's Wingnut, I would suspect that the entire blue tubing needs replacement - could be quite a job, but it is better done at leisure rather than as an emergency.
Perhaps Colin Young (Chief Engineer at Caravan Council of Australia) could advise of any problems with other vans and how to replace. www.caravancouncil.com.au/
or contact; CARAVAN COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIA
3 Margaret Street
Parkdale VIC 3195
T: 0409 865 399
F: 03 9587 1828
Welcome to the gang Hardnut, enjoy here and out in the playground.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:55 AM Jan 5, 2022
Genuine JH pipe costs $2 per m.
Black is probably more durable than the colours.
The fittings may also need replacing as they don't like being disturbed. I actually prefer some Chinese pneumatic fittings. They are cheaper and better than the JG, in my view, but stick with the JG tube.
Cheers,
Peter
SoloMC said
09:01 AM Jan 5, 2022
Welcome
I had several pipes do the same.
It usually happens when inferior pipe is used instead of guest pipes.
It also happens when manufacturers skimp on fittings and bend the pipework instead of using a 90 degree bens to change direction. The pipe is in tension on the outside of the bens and will usually fail there.
Your task is now to replace the entire pipes and remove all bends and use fittings instead
Tony Bev said
01:40 PM Jan 5, 2022
A warm welcome from me also, Wingnut79
I have a 2006 RV, and I have only had one fitting fail, (it cracked)
No pipes have cracked
As others have already said, you may have some non genuine piping
And it would be better to replace it, than have to make emergency repairs, on the road
Wingnut79 said
06:50 PM Jan 10, 2022
As SoloMC said I have had breaking in the blue pressure pipe where the slack caravan manufacturer bent the pipe instead of using a a compression elbo at the bending point. But I have also had breaks in a straight section of pipe. Obviously inferior pipe
Cupie said
02:14 PM Jan 11, 2022
Hi ..
When you replace your John Guest pipes be absolutely sure to use the collars at every fitting. They are cheap & IMHO essential.
Many RV manufacturers don't use them (just another example of the crap practices of our RV manufacturers), but I can assure you that these cheap collars are essential for maintaining the perfectly round shape of the pipe (this allows the water sealing 'O' ring to sit fully on the pipe & also ensures that the joint securing blade fingers dig securely into the pipe without distorting it. They also provide a perfectly square end to the pipe. All of these actions ensure the long term integrity of the fitting especially as the pipe looses its flexibility over time as well as during movement of the joint.
A repair person of long standing went to great lengths to impress on me that he was frequently called on to repair JG water systems and in his experience the fault was usually because no collar had been fitted at a push on fitting, or excessive force had been used on threaded fittings that had nut shaped profiles. eg where the JG 'push fit' connection transitions to a 'screw on' fitting. (Don't be tempted to use a spanner on these .. just ensure that the pieces are correctly aligned with no end burrs and perhaps a squirt of 'slippery' on the thread & tighten by hand. I reckon that they should be manufactured with a knurled, rather than a nut profile finish. But then I think that the collars should be included with the push on fittings too.)
Rob Driver said
03:56 PM Jan 11, 2022
Cupie wrote:
Hi ..
When you replace your John Guest pipes be absolutely sure to use the collars at every fitting. They are cheap & IMHO essential.
Many RV manufacturers don't use them (just another example of the crap practices of our RV manufacturers), but I can assure you that these cheap collars are essential for maintaining the perfectly round shape of the pipe (this allows the water sealing 'O' ring to sit fully on the pipe & also ensures that the joint securing blade fingers dig securely into the pipe without distorting it. They also provide a perfectly square end to the pipe. All of these actions ensure the long term integrity of the fitting especially as the pipe looses its flexibility over time as well as during movement of the joint.
A repair person of long standing went to great lengths to impress on me that he was frequently called on to repair JG water systems and in his experience the fault was usually because no collar had been fitted at a push on fitting, or excessive force had been used on threaded fittings that had nut shaped profiles. eg where the JG 'push fit' connection transitions to a 'screw on' fitting. (Don't be tempted to use a spanner on these .. just ensure that the pieces are correctly aligned with no end burrs and perhaps a squirt of 'slippery' on the thread & tighten by hand. I reckon that they should be manufactured with a knurled, rather than a nut profile finish. But then I think that the collars should be included with the push on fittings too.)
X 2
Apparently many van manufacturers are loathed or just too cheap to fit those collars.
Some instructions for the assembly of JG pipe fittings recommend not using the internal sleeve for cold water. Well nothing incorrect with the advice considering JG were or maybe still are a company based in the UK.
However here in Australia particularly in regions above the Tropic of Capricorn the cold water from the tap when connected to a van and laying in a supply hose attached is hot particularly during summer. Quite often too hot to touch. The longer the hose the more hot water is going through the cold pipe. Anyone in NQ in summer rarely uses hot water for showers etc in their vans. Even the supply in many areas up north comes from pipes which are not insulated against the heat of the day.
Here is such an instruction advice. Just fit the sleeves to all joints not only the Hot supply connections.
-- Edited by Rob Driver on Tuesday 11th of January 2022 04:12:20 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:41 PM Jan 11, 2022
I have not used the JG tube inserts generally, for cold water with no problems, but they are necessary for hot water.
It should be noted though that JG pipe and fittings are limited to a maximum of 70C. Beyond that there is a seperate range of fittings (and pipe) for hotter applications. They are considerably more expensive.
Cheers,
Peter
Rob Driver said
08:14 PM Jan 11, 2022
I was put onto the cold water pipe being hot and needing the sleeves from a caravan repairer in Cairns. He also advised that every length of pipe should be mounted securely with pipe saddles and be installed without twists or sharp bends. Unfortunately this standard does not apply to a lot of van manufacturers.
If you arent staying in van parks where, at least in NQ and Darwin the cold water supply can be hot from the tap then this probably would not apply. Free camping would be drawing from vehicle tanks or maybe creeks or dams which from my observations in most cases would not be a worry..
If the cold water supply got over 70 deg C then you would have a problem.
-- Edited by Rob Driver on Tuesday 11th of January 2022 08:17:22 PM
Ivan 01 said
08:36 PM Jan 12, 2022
Before I took ill I was in a park in Bowen and a guy came into a site just down from me with a reasonably new van.
He hooked up the water which was from a tap from some distance away as it was the only tap. It was in February two years ago.
On about the second day in the afternoon there was water leaking from under his van.
I gave him a bit of a hand by sliding underneath to see where the leak was.
The water came into the fitting on the van chassis and then went to the pressure limiter thing.
There was a JG push fitting that connected the blue pipe and it was leaking from that connector.
What happened was the water pressure pushed the pipe out of the connector but not all the way, only enough so it was no longer sealing.
The pipe moved back a few millimetres because it was not mounted with saddles but just ran along the floor in a large curve from the inlet to the pressure valve.
The owner phoned the nearest dealer in Mackay and when he explained to there workshop what was happening the service guy told the owner to go to a plumber and get the sleeve and a couple of pipe saddles.
He advised us to fit that little sleeve and secure the pipe with saddles. We did that and then as far as I know he had no more troubles. He was fine for the few days he was at that park.
The service guy said the same thing that the vans were built in Victoria and they rarely had trouble with JG fittings in the cold weather but as he said, when vans are in the north of Australia then the cold water pipes get hot and easily go soft and then flex themselves undone. The service guy said that the little sleeve stops the pipe from collapsing when it is contacting hot water. He said that it was common on the inlet before the pressure was reduced as well.
If I do get myself another van it will be something that I will check before possibly getting caught with a leak.
Mike Harding said
02:23 PM Jan 20, 2022
I have no idea about your question but I do want to say how impressed I am by your invention of the word "circumferentially" and, even more so, your ability to spell it! :)
Santa said
09:48 AM Jan 21, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
I have no idea about your question but I do want to say how impressed I am by your invention of the word "circumferentially" and, even more so, your ability to spell it! :)
Had a smile at this Mike, even read it out to the better half, "circumferentially" may well be the best new word for 2022.
As an aside, pinged you an email at your Gmail address the other day, did you receive it?
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:26 AM Jan 21, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
I have no idea about your question but I do want to say how impressed I am by your invention of the word "circumferentially" and, even more so, your ability to spell it! :)
I have JG pipe in my MH that is 17 years old and never a problem.
Cheers,
Peter
Perhaps Colin Young (Chief Engineer at Caravan Council of Australia) could advise of any problems with other vans and how to replace. www.caravancouncil.com.au/
or contact; CARAVAN COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIA
3 Margaret Street
Parkdale VIC 3195
T: 0409 865 399
F: 03 9587 1828
caravancouncil@optusnet.com.au
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Black is probably more durable than the colours.
The fittings may also need replacing as they don't like being disturbed. I actually prefer some Chinese pneumatic fittings. They are cheaper and better than the JG, in my view, but stick with the JG tube.
Cheers,
Peter
I had several pipes do the same.
It usually happens when inferior pipe is used instead of guest pipes.
It also happens when manufacturers skimp on fittings and bend the pipework instead of using a 90 degree bens to change direction. The pipe is in tension on the outside of the bens and will usually fail there.
Your task is now to replace the entire pipes and remove all bends and use fittings instead
I have a 2006 RV, and I have only had one fitting fail, (it cracked)
No pipes have cracked
As others have already said, you may have some non genuine piping
And it would be better to replace it, than have to make emergency repairs, on the road
Hi ..
When you replace your John Guest pipes be absolutely sure to use the collars at every fitting. They are cheap & IMHO essential.
Many RV manufacturers don't use them (just another example of the crap practices of our RV manufacturers), but I can assure you that these cheap collars are essential for maintaining the perfectly round shape of the pipe (this allows the water sealing 'O' ring to sit fully on the pipe & also ensures that the joint securing blade fingers dig securely into the pipe without distorting it. They also provide a perfectly square end to the pipe. All of these actions ensure the long term integrity of the fitting especially as the pipe looses its flexibility over time as well as during movement of the joint.
A repair person of long standing went to great lengths to impress on me that he was frequently called on to repair JG water systems and in his experience the fault was usually because no collar had been fitted at a push on fitting, or excessive force had been used on threaded fittings that had nut shaped profiles. eg where the JG 'push fit' connection transitions to a 'screw on' fitting. (Don't be tempted to use a spanner on these .. just ensure that the pieces are correctly aligned with no end burrs and perhaps a squirt of 'slippery' on the thread & tighten by hand. I reckon that they should be manufactured with a knurled, rather than a nut profile finish. But then I think that the collars should be included with the push on fittings too.)
X 2
Apparently many van manufacturers are loathed or just too cheap to fit those collars.
Some instructions for the assembly of JG pipe fittings recommend not using the internal sleeve for cold water.
Well nothing incorrect with the advice considering JG were or maybe still are a company based in the UK.
However here in Australia particularly in regions above the Tropic of Capricorn the cold water from the tap when connected to a van and laying in a supply hose attached is hot particularly during summer.
Quite often too hot to touch. The longer the hose the more hot water is going through the cold pipe. Anyone in NQ in summer rarely uses hot water for showers etc in their vans. Even the supply in many areas up north comes from pipes which are not insulated against the heat of the day.
Here is such an instruction advice. Just fit the sleeves to all joints not only the Hot supply connections.
https://www.caravansplus.com.au/guides/how-to-use-john-guest-push-on-fittings-a-11.html
Thanks Cupie
A great post with very good advice.
-- Edited by Rob Driver on Tuesday 11th of January 2022 04:12:20 PM
It should be noted though that JG pipe and fittings are limited to a maximum of 70C. Beyond that there is a seperate range of fittings (and pipe) for hotter applications. They are considerably more expensive.
Cheers,
Peter
I was put onto the cold water pipe being hot and needing the sleeves from a caravan repairer in Cairns. He also advised that every length of pipe should be mounted securely with pipe saddles and be installed without twists or sharp bends. Unfortunately this standard does not apply to a lot of van manufacturers.
If you arent staying in van parks where, at least in NQ and Darwin the cold water supply can be hot from the tap then this probably would not apply.
Free camping would be drawing from vehicle tanks or maybe creeks or dams which from my observations in most cases would not be a worry..
If the cold water supply got over 70 deg C then you would have a problem.
-- Edited by Rob Driver on Tuesday 11th of January 2022 08:17:22 PM
He hooked up the water which was from a tap from some distance away as it was the only tap. It was in February two years ago.
On about the second day in the afternoon there was water leaking from under his van.
I gave him a bit of a hand by sliding underneath to see where the leak was.
The water came into the fitting on the van chassis and then went to the pressure limiter thing.
There was a JG push fitting that connected the blue pipe and it was leaking from that connector.
What happened was the water pressure pushed the pipe out of the connector but not all the way, only enough so it was no longer sealing.
The pipe moved back a few millimetres because it was not mounted with saddles but just ran along the floor in a large curve from the inlet to the pressure valve.
The owner phoned the nearest dealer in Mackay and when he explained to there workshop what was happening the service guy told the owner to go to a plumber and get the sleeve and a couple of pipe saddles.
He advised us to fit that little sleeve and secure the pipe with saddles. We did that and then as far as I know he had no more troubles. He was fine for the few days he was at that park.
The service guy said the same thing that the vans were built in Victoria and they rarely had trouble with JG fittings in the cold weather but as he said, when vans are in the north of Australia then the cold water pipes get hot and easily go soft and then flex themselves undone. The service guy said that the little sleeve stops the pipe from collapsing when it is contacting hot water. He said that it was common on the inlet before the pressure was reduced as well.
If I do get myself another van it will be something that I will check before possibly getting caught with a leak.
I have no idea about your question but I do want to say how impressed I am by your invention of the word "circumferentially" and, even more so, your ability to spell it! :)
Had a smile at this Mike, even read it out to the better half, "circumferentially" may well be the best new word for 2022.
As an aside, pinged you an email at your Gmail address the other day, did you receive it?
It is a genuine word. An adverb.
Cheers,
Peter