Many van owners have difficulty maintaining their weight within the ratings.
I have a couple of theories why I struggle with van weight and am wondering if:
A. Am I correct?
B. Have I miss understood?
c. I'm dumb?
I have a weigh bridge ticket (attached) from the maker that states its tare weight at new. (tare 2010kg) and have a load capacity of 490kg. (ATM 2500kg). Coincidently the 2010kg is precisely the advertised tare.
I recently weighed the van (twice on different weigh bridges) (about 50% loaded) connected to the vehicle and then the TBW separately on weigh bridges. Weights were confirmed. Some basic arithmetic and a bit of estimation tells me that 380kg was in the van. This is way over what I estimate. (230kg) I might add all of my estimates (attached) are on the high side. Sooo, the weigh bridge is telling me my estimate of load is 150kg on the wrong side. (some items have been weighed) That's a lot IMHO.
So, I'm wondering could it be that there are "games" played when new vans are weighed by the maker?
1. They leave some items out, say mattress, gas bottles, battery, spare tyre?
2. Is it possible that the vans are not weighed correctly?
3. Weigh bridge dockets are "edited" or doctored? Sounds crazy.
The man to answer these questions would be Montie,our resident RV dealer,who has vast experience in this area.As far as I can determine,tare weight is the weight of the bare van as it leaves the factory.Can I say that trying to weigh towball on a weighbridge would give wildly inaccurate figures,dependent on weighbridge increments.Most weighbridges weigh in 20kg increments,so,for example,every weight between 21kg and 40kg would display as 40kg.And,if a manufacturer builds 100 examples of caravan model " A-BIG-ONE",I strongly doubt that each would be weighed individually.More likely to weigh a couple,and decide that the average weight of those would be the tare.And,as far as trying to do towball weights on a weighbridge goes,a couple of weeks ago I checked my weights,just because,and the weighbridge I had used showed towball weight of 500kg! Now,the 79 could handle this,no worries,but when I got home I used the simple bathroom scales method,and determined that actual towball weight was around 150kg less than the weighbridge measured,and perfect.Again,doing towball weights on a weighbridge is an exercise in stupidity.If you want to check inaccuracies,weigh your car first,unhitched.Then weigh the towball of the van.Now hook up the van and drive the car only,onto the weighbridge.And I will bet that the total weight that now is shown for the car is not the same as original car weight plus towball weight.Cheers
oldbloke said
08:47 PM Oct 7, 2021
There is no doubt weigh bridges are aprox. But I used 2 weigh bridges to weigh the van and got the same weights.
So they are very close.
In addition I'm talking a huge discrepancy here now 30 or 40 kg.
montie said
08:07 AM Oct 8, 2021
oldbloke wrote:
Many van owners have difficulty maintaining their weight within the ratings.
I have a couple of theories why I struggle with van weight and am wondering if:
A. Am I correct?
B. Have I miss understood?
c. I'm dumb?
I have a weigh bridge ticket (attached) from the maker that states its tare weight at new. (tare 2010kg) and have a load capacity of 490kg. (ATM 2500kg). Coincidently the 2010kg is precisely the advertised tare.
I recently weighed the van (twice on different weigh bridges) (about 50% loaded) connected to the vehicle and then the TBW separately on weigh bridges. Weights were confirmed. Some basic arithmetic and a bit of estimation tells me that 380kg was in the van. This is way over what I estimate. (230kg) I might add all of my estimates (attached) are on the high side. Sooo, the weigh bridge is telling me my estimate of load is 150kg on the wrong side. (some items have been weighed) That's a lot IMHO.
So, I'm wondering could it be that there are "games" played when new vans are weighed by the maker?
1. They leave some items out, say mattress, gas bottles, battery, spare tyre?
2. Is it possible that the vans are not weighed correctly?
3. Weigh bridge dockets are "edited" or doctored? Sounds crazy.
Specs
Tare 2010kg
TBW empty 218kg
ATM 2500kg
Opinions please. And be polite and kind.
I can't speak for all manufacturers but when the van is completed at the factory it is weighed as a dry empty van. No water or gas. It includes empty gas bottle(s) and any requested optional extras.
At the same time the ball weight is measured . Both empty ball weight and measured Tare weight are stamped on the compliance plate. The empty ball weight is subtracted from the ATM to give you the "Axle Weight" or "GTM".
When the van arrives at the dealer it is predelivered which includes filling the gas bottles and water tanks and fitting any further requested optional extras. Obviously this changes both measured Tare and ball weight. Your discrepancy could well be an extra or two fitted by the dealer at customer request...a battery perhaps.. These days items such as awnings and air conditioners are fitted at the factory and most dealers prefer to have all options fitted at the factory and included in the plated tare.
All of the above may now change under the new legislation introduced on July 1.
oldbloke said
03:04 PM Oct 8, 2021
Montie, it purchased direct. All "extras" included. Solar, battery, awning, mattress etc were all included. They were not extras. When I picked up the van there was no water or gas. The variation is huge. Can't be explained.
If you look at my attached list of contents. The water tanks were empty and bottles filled with gas.
Radar said
06:39 PM Oct 8, 2021
yobarr wrote:
The man to answer these questions would be Montie,our resident RV dealer,who has vast experience in this area.As far as I can determine,tare weight is the weight of the bare van as it leaves the factory.Can I say that trying to weigh towball on a weighbridge would give wildly inaccurate figures,dependent on weighbridge increments.Most weighbridges weigh in 20kg increments,so,for example,every weight between 21kg and 40kg would display as 40kg.And,if a manufacturer builds 100 examples of caravan model " A-BIG-ONE",I strongly doubt that each would be weighed individually.More likely to weigh a couple,and decide that the average weight of those would be the tare.And,as far as trying to do towball weights on a weighbridge goes,a couple of weeks ago I checked my weights,just because,and the weighbridge I had used showed towball weight of 500kg! Now,the 79 could handle this,no worries,but when I got home I used the simple bathroom scales method,and determined that actual towball weight was around 150kg less than the weighbridge measured,and perfect.Again,doing towball weights on a weighbridge is an exercise in stupidity.If you want to check inaccuracies,weigh your car first,unhitched.Then weigh the towball of the van.Now hook up the van and drive the car only,onto the weighbridge.And I will bet that the total weight that now is shown for the car is not the same as original car weight plus towball weight.Cheers
Yobarr.
I have owned 3 rv trailers and the tare weights have been closer enough to the mark to say they were weighed on leaving the factory as per the stamped weights.
Now back around 1970 in the good old imperial days, ton, cwt pounds. I worked at as a weighman at a quarry with a bar and slide to check wieghs. We actually had decimal points eg. 5. 55 tons.
Now for you to say most weighbridges have 20 kgs increments would not be anywhere near right.
The local scrap metal dealer printed docket for our ute 2.47 tonnnes.
The last load of steel out of Melbourne to Brisbane, when I was gross loaded I was 95kg over the manifested weight so down comes the supervisor and counts every lenght of angle iron I had on, they would not believe I picked up 5 pieces of dunnage and added to the load, after hour I was allowed to go with a stern warning about picking up timber.
A load of grain out of Gunnedah was a computed generated docket on arrival at Newcastle I was about 20kgs short of over the receiving silos weighbridge and they wanted to dock me the shortage.
I guess what I trying to say is the weighbridges that are fair dinkum can and will do a much better job weighing to the kilogram.
montie said
08:29 PM Oct 8, 2021
oldbloke wrote:
Montie, it purchased direct. All "extras" included. Solar, battery, awning, mattress etc were all included. They were not extras. When I picked up the van there was no water or gas. The variation is huge. Can't be explained.
If you look at my attached list of contents. The water tanks were empty and bottles filled with gas.
Old bloke,
Weight does not magically appear or disappear...Jenny Craig will support that theory!
You say you purchased direct from the manufacturer...so maybe you need to have a discussion.
The plated (and advertised) Tare should be the measured weight of the dry empty van as it leaves the factory which is 2010kg according to your paperwork. I am assuming that that same tare figure is stamped on the compliance plate.
The only logical answer is something has been added after the van left the factory or the 2010kg was incorrect to begin with.
Many smaller builders do not have an in house weighbridge so they tow the finished van to the nearest weighbridge, some may not be all that diligent.
Some manufacturers weigh the first van and stamp all subsequent vans with the same assumed weight...not ideal either.
Bottom line Old Bloke....I can't answer your question.
-- Edited by montie on Friday 8th of October 2021 08:47:31 PM
yobarr said
09:29 PM Oct 8, 2021
Ralph,you claim that yourscrap metal weighbridge docket said your load was 2.47 tonnes.This means that the load weighed 2470kg,and that that particular weighbridge appears to weigh in 10kg increments.This is unusual,and you might also like to know that there is no heavy weighbridge that weighs in 1kg increments,as your 5.39pm post suggests in the last line.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 8th of October 2021 09:30:13 PM
oldbloke said
09:55 PM Oct 8, 2021
montie wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Montie, it purchased direct. All "extras" included. Solar, battery, awning, mattress etc were all included. They were not extras. When I picked up the van there was no water or gas. The variation is huge. Can't be explained.
If you look at my attached list of contents. The water tanks were empty and bottles filled with gas.
Old bloke,
Weight does not magically appear or disappear...Jenny Craig will support that theory!
You say you purchased direct from the manufacturer...so maybe you need to have a discussion.
The plated (and advertised) Tare should be the measured weight of the dry empty van as it leaves the factory which is 2010kg according to your paperwork. I am assuming that that same tare figure is stamped on the compliance plate.
The only logical answer is something has been added after the van left the factory or the 2010kg was incorrect to begin with.
Many smaller builders do not have an in house weighbridge so they tow the finished van to the nearest weighbridge, some may not be all that diligent.
Some manufacturers weigh the first van and stamp all subsequent vans with the same assumed weight...not ideal either.
Bottom line Old Bloke....I can't answer your question.
-- Edited by montie on Friday 8th of October 2021 08:47:31 PM
That's what I'm suggesting. Did go over a weigh bridge but some items were yet to be installed. Eg battery, spare tyre etc. My estimate can't possibly be out 150kg.IMO
Yes had the discussion when I picked up the van.
Donh54 said
07:44 PM Oct 12, 2021
Never believe the plated tare weight! As a few have said, it is often an average, or "ballpark" figure from the maker.
Weighing the van "about 50% loaded" is fraught with peril. Take everything out, then get your own tare weight done. That will be correct (from a registered weighbridge). If there is a major discrepancy, contact the maker.
The van maker will often list the TBM as 10% of the GTM. The car and/or towbar makers limit is the one you need to be aware of.
When selecting the weighbridge you are going to use, enquire first as to the increments it weighs at. Then you can decide how accurate your effort to get the TBM will be, otherwise, for under $100, many autoparts stores will sell you a towball scale.
Remember your front and rear axle weights on the tow car should be checked as well. This is one area where a lot of people come undone.
yobarr said
09:29 PM Oct 12, 2021
Donh54 wrote:
Never believe the plated tare weight! As a few have said, it is often an average, or "ballpark" figure from the maker.
Weighing the van "about 50% loaded" is fraught with peril. Take everything out, then get your own tare weight done. That will be correct (from a registered weighbridge). If there is a major discrepancy, contact the maker.
The van maker will often list the TBM as 10% of the GTM. The car and/or towbar makers limit is the one you need to be aware of.
You no doubt mean 10% of ATM?
When selecting the weighbridge you are going to use, enquire first as to the increments it weighs at. Then you can decide how accurate your effort to get the TBM will be, otherwise, for under $100,many autoparts stores will sell you a towball scale.
Good advice there,Don,but my extensive testing of several models showed huge variances between the,and not one was within cooee of actual weights.Save your money.
Remember your front and rear axle weights on the tow car should be checked as well. This is one area where a lot of people come undone.
Another great observation! From my time on the forum I have noticed that very few people have any idea about weights,claiming that "I'm under my GVM so I'm OK" Nothing could be further from the truth,as you can be sure that if they are towing a van,and they're anywhere near GVM,MOST cars are overloaded on the rear axle.Simple physics.
bomurra said
08:45 PM Oct 27, 2021
By way of input on this topic, my brother purchased a new van from a well established Melbourne manufacturer (still trading today) a number of years ago, with a compliance plate stating the tare weight 230kg less than the actual weight. This was established by the local dealer after complaints from my brother.
The manufacturer replaced the van with a new custom built unt, with a lightweight aluminium chassis and other concessions, to allow him to tow the van with the tow vehicle he had at the time.
Understating the tare does happen, and if you prove it, it is a major issue for the manufacturer under the Australian Retail Trade Practices Legeslation.
If you feel you have a valid complaint, empty your van and weigh it, but dont forget any accessories that may have been added by the dealer after it left the factory or by yourself once you took delivery.
I find that people often underestimate the weight of the equipment, food, tools, clothing etc. they carry, which mostly contribites to this problem.
Many van owners have difficulty maintaining their weight within the ratings.
I have a couple of theories why I struggle with van weight and am wondering if:
A. Am I correct?
B. Have I miss understood?
c. I'm dumb?
I have a weigh bridge ticket (attached) from the maker that states its tare weight at new. (tare 2010kg) and have a load capacity of 490kg. (ATM 2500kg). Coincidently the 2010kg is precisely the advertised tare.
I recently weighed the van (twice on different weigh bridges) (about 50% loaded) connected to the vehicle and then the TBW separately on weigh bridges. Weights were confirmed. Some basic arithmetic and a bit of estimation tells me that 380kg was in the van. This is way over what I estimate. (230kg) I might add all of my estimates (attached) are on the high side. Sooo, the weigh bridge is telling me my estimate of load is 150kg on the wrong side. (some items have been weighed) That's a lot IMHO.
So, I'm wondering could it be that there are "games" played when new vans are weighed by the maker?
1. They leave some items out, say mattress, gas bottles, battery, spare tyre?
2. Is it possible that the vans are not weighed correctly?
3. Weigh bridge dockets are "edited" or doctored? Sounds crazy.
Specs
Tare 2010kg
TBW empty 218kg
ATM 2500kg
Opinions please. And be polite and kind.
The man to answer these questions would be Montie,our resident RV dealer,who has vast experience in this area.As far as I can determine,tare weight is the weight of the bare van as it leaves the factory.Can I say that trying to weigh towball on a weighbridge would give wildly inaccurate figures,dependent on weighbridge increments.Most weighbridges weigh in 20kg increments,so,for example,every weight between 21kg and 40kg would display as 40kg.And,if a manufacturer builds 100 examples of caravan model " A-BIG-ONE",I strongly doubt that each would be weighed individually.More likely to weigh a couple,and decide that the average weight of those would be the tare.And,as far as trying to do towball weights on a weighbridge goes,a couple of weeks ago I checked my weights,just because,and the weighbridge I had used showed towball weight of 500kg! Now,the 79 could handle this,no worries,but when I got home I used the simple bathroom scales method,and determined that actual towball weight was around 150kg less than the weighbridge measured,and perfect.Again,doing towball weights on a weighbridge is an exercise in stupidity.If you want to check inaccuracies,weigh your car first,unhitched.Then weigh the towball of the van.Now hook up the van and drive the car only,onto the weighbridge.And I will bet that the total weight that now is shown for the car is not the same as original car weight plus towball weight.Cheers
So they are very close.
In addition I'm talking a huge discrepancy here now 30 or 40 kg.
I can't speak for all manufacturers but when the van is completed at the factory it is weighed as a dry empty van. No water or gas. It includes empty gas bottle(s) and any requested optional extras.
At the same time the ball weight is measured . Both empty ball weight and measured Tare weight are stamped on the compliance plate. The empty ball weight is subtracted from the ATM to give you the "Axle Weight" or "GTM".
When the van arrives at the dealer it is predelivered which includes filling the gas bottles and water tanks and fitting any further requested optional extras. Obviously this changes both measured Tare and ball weight. Your discrepancy could well be an extra or two fitted by the dealer at customer request...a battery perhaps.. These days items such as awnings and air conditioners are fitted at the factory and most dealers prefer to have all options fitted at the factory and included in the plated tare.
All of the above may now change under the new legislation introduced on July 1.
If you look at my attached list of contents. The water tanks were empty and bottles filled with gas.
Yobarr.
I have owned 3 rv trailers and the tare weights have been closer enough to the mark to say they were weighed on leaving the factory as per the stamped weights.
Now back around 1970 in the good old imperial days, ton, cwt pounds. I worked at as a weighman at a quarry with a bar and slide to check wieghs. We actually had decimal points eg. 5. 55 tons.
Now for you to say most weighbridges have 20 kgs increments would not be anywhere near right.
The local scrap metal dealer printed docket for our ute 2.47 tonnnes.
The last load of steel out of Melbourne to Brisbane, when I was gross loaded I was 95kg over the manifested weight so down comes the supervisor and counts every lenght of angle iron I had on, they would not believe I picked up 5 pieces of dunnage and added to the load, after hour I was allowed to go with a stern warning about picking up timber.
A load of grain out of Gunnedah was a computed generated docket on arrival at Newcastle I was about 20kgs short of over the receiving silos weighbridge and they wanted to dock me the shortage.
I guess what I trying to say is the weighbridges that are fair dinkum can and will do a much better job weighing to the kilogram.
Old bloke,
Weight does not magically appear or disappear...Jenny Craig will support that theory!
You say you purchased direct from the manufacturer...so maybe you need to have a discussion.
The plated (and advertised) Tare should be the measured weight of the dry empty van as it leaves the factory which is 2010kg according to your paperwork. I am assuming that that same tare figure is stamped on the compliance plate.
The only logical answer is something has been added after the van left the factory or the 2010kg was incorrect to begin with.
Many smaller builders do not have an in house weighbridge so they tow the finished van to the nearest weighbridge, some may not be all that diligent.
Some manufacturers weigh the first van and stamp all subsequent vans with the same assumed weight...not ideal either.
Bottom line Old Bloke....I can't answer your question.
-- Edited by montie on Friday 8th of October 2021 08:47:31 PM
Ralph,you claim that yourscrap metal weighbridge docket said your load was 2.47 tonnes.This means that the load weighed 2470kg,and that that particular weighbridge appears to weigh in 10kg increments.This is unusual,and you might also like to know that there is no heavy weighbridge that weighs in 1kg increments,as your 5.39pm post suggests in the last line.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 8th of October 2021 09:30:13 PM
That's what I'm suggesting. Did go over a weigh bridge but some items were yet to be installed. Eg battery, spare tyre etc. My estimate can't possibly be out 150kg.IMO
Yes had the discussion when I picked up the van.
Weighing the van "about 50% loaded" is fraught with peril. Take everything out, then get your own tare weight done. That will be correct (from a registered weighbridge). If there is a major discrepancy, contact the maker.
The van maker will often list the TBM as 10% of the GTM. The car and/or towbar makers limit is the one you need to be aware of.
When selecting the weighbridge you are going to use, enquire first as to the increments it weighs at. Then you can decide how accurate your effort to get the TBM will be, otherwise, for under $100, many autoparts stores will sell you a towball scale.
Remember your front and rear axle weights on the tow car should be checked as well. This is one area where a lot of people come undone.
The manufacturer replaced the van with a new custom built unt, with a lightweight aluminium chassis and other concessions, to allow him to tow the van with the tow vehicle he had at the time.
Understating the tare does happen, and if you prove it, it is a major issue for the manufacturer under the Australian Retail Trade Practices Legeslation.
If you feel you have a valid complaint, empty your van and weigh it, but dont forget any accessories that may have been added by the dealer after it left the factory or by yourself once you took delivery.
I find that people often underestimate the weight of the equipment, food, tools, clothing etc. they carry, which mostly contribites to this problem.