Police powers to hack and disrupt dark web pass Parliament.
Santa said
07:12 PM Aug 25, 2021
Another brick in the wall.
"Federal police and organised crime investigators will be able to take over the online dark web accounts of criminals and terrorists and hack into their networks under new powers that passed Parliament on Wednesday."
They also can add entrapment tools, as well as adding illegal files to your computer, if they want to bust you, because your computer doesn't have incriminating files. It is part of the package, They will be looking at anybody whom uses a computer, and if they don't like you for some reason, like you make a disparaging comment against the government, then Boom you could be gone. This is fact. You have to read the bill and all it's contents to find out what it is all about. I read it on Friday, on the federal Government website
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 26th of August 2021 12:57:01 AM
dorian said
06:08 AM Aug 26, 2021
You just need to see how the government deals with whistle blowers to see why they shouldn't be trusted with such powers.
Mike Harding said
07:59 AM Aug 26, 2021
Now come on people... you know full well that whenever governments pass laws which may seem oppressive and curtailing of freedoms it's always done for our own good and to disrupt criminals, or reduce child pornography or drug trafficking or terrorism and such.
Never is it done because government or the police or the intelligence services simply want more power and control over their subjects.
That's right, isn't it....
Mike Harding said
08:04 AM Aug 26, 2021
You know what the worse thing is: 26,000,000 people and no one cares.
Santa said
12:38 PM Aug 26, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
You know what the worse thing is: 26,000,000 people and no one cares.
I suspect there may well be a message there for you Mike, 26,000,000 people in the parade and I'm the only one in step.
Santa said
12:44 PM Aug 26, 2021
Back to the topic under discussion.
Predictable responses from the (enlightened few) begs the question, what activities are you engaging in that makes you so fearful of government persecution?
I've been around the traps for a long time and have dealt with numerous govt departments, never have I encountered any govt behavior that I have felt threatened by.
On the other hand during my 30 years as a JP I have often come across people living on the fringe that are constantly having altercations with officialdom and wonder why, the answer of course is obvious to any thinking person, clean up your act and the problems will suddenly disappear.
Needless to say if you've gained a dubious reputation you most certainly will be on a data base somewhere so you will of course receive a bit of special treatment until you show it's no longer warranted.
I have no problems whatsoever with police monitoring illegal activity on the (dark web) the internet or anywhere else for that matter, any initiative to protect the community from criminal activity is warranted.
We hear people screaming loud and clear when they have been scammed, slandered or whose lives have been adversely affected by illegal drug activity, Ive had personal experience with young children gaining access to hard core porn, if parents are unable to control what their kids view online then its well and truly timefor the govt to legislate to force service providers to block this type of material, if you feel this is another infringement of your freedom then I strongly suggest you have very close look at your moral compass.
Mike Harding said
01:10 PM Aug 26, 2021
Santa wrote:
if you feel this is another infringement of your freedom then I strongly suggest you have very close look at your moral compass.
The above is exactly why you and I often do not see eye-to-eye Santa:
You believe that if another's "moral compass" differs from yours then they are wrong and you are right.
Santa said
01:24 PM Aug 26, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
Santa wrote:
if you feel this is another infringement of your freedom then I strongly suggest you have very close look at your moral compass.
The above is exactly why you and I often do not see eye-to-eye Santa:
You believe that if another's "moral compass" differs from yours then they are wrong and you are right.
Morals are a bit like facts Mike, you have the facts and as Kellyanne Conway informed us we have alternative facts.
Aristotle has this to say about morality, "Aristotle defines moral virtue as a disposition to behave in the right manner and as a mean between extremes of deficiency and excess, which are vices." His thoughts on morals are valid to this day.
dorian said
01:40 PM Aug 26, 2021
Santa wrote:
Aristotle has this to say about morality, "Aristotle defines moral virtue as a disposition to behave in the right manner ...
That reads like a tautology. Morals are those behaviours which are right, and right behaviours are those which are moral. The statement would only have meaning if what is "right" were some independent, absolute standard, not the subjective opinion of the utterer.
Santa said
01:55 PM Aug 26, 2021
dorian wrote:
Santa wrote:
Aristotle has this to say about morality, "Aristotle defines moral virtue as a disposition to behave in the right manner ...
That reads like a tautology. Morals are those behaviours which are right, and right behaviours are those which are moral. The statement would only have meaning if what is "right" were some independent, absolute standard, not the subjective opinion of the utterer.
Selective quoting is seldom a good idea Dorian, what was said was
"Aristotle defines moral virtue as a disposition to behave in the right manner and as a mean between extremes of deficiency and excess, which are vices."
Not difficult to understand when read in full.
Bicyclecamper said
03:35 PM Aug 26, 2021
So Santa, if you believe it is okay for the Govt> to actively look into everybodies computer, all the time, because if you are doing no wrong, what's wrong with the govt. having access to everything you do. So if that is a fact of a belief of your's why not offer to the govt. to put cameras into your home, because you believe, that I am do nothing wrong, so it is not a problem for the camera's to come into my home. And as law has been passed the camera and microphone on your computer, is now looking and hearing what you are doing. in your home. Maybe a tracker will now be put on your phone to track your every move, But hey, I am not doing anything wrong, so I am quite happy for them to track my every move.
Mike Harding said
03:42 PM Aug 26, 2021
Santa: it seems to me that you have a defined set of morals which you have, no doubt, thoughtfully determined over the years and have decided they are the sole rules by which to live and, therefore, those who do not adhere to your rules are heretics.
I put it to you that morality is flexible:
Once it was moral to buy and sell slaves, now it is not.
I consider myself to be a moral person but I would steal a pen from the office; however I would not steal one from a blind man on the street who was selling pens.
The concept of a "mean" morality is useless - the mean is simply the aggregate between the maximum and the minimum so if I am 1% inside either boundary does that make me moral?
Is it moral to abort the baby of a rape? Does that differ depending upon whether the rape was a "grab off the street" or her ex. husband and father of previous children when they were trying to get back together?
One thing I have learned over the years is that the older I become the less sure of what is right and what is wrong I am.
I commend the following BBC radio programme to you:
Santo, Why do you think, the Government, wants survailence on the whole of the Australian population, answer me that? Think about it?, maybe they will go too far, and the people will rise up, I know you won't, but people will only take so much kicking them down, then they will act. This is the reason for the survailence.
dogbox said
08:08 PM Aug 26, 2021
Bicyclecamper wrote:
Santo, Why do you think, the Government, wants survailence on the whole of the Australian population, answer me that? Think about it?, maybe they will go too far, and the people will rise up, I know you won't, but people will only take so much kicking them down, then they will act. This is the reason for the survailence.
could this be what is happening when people protest against all the lockdowns, are the people starting to rise up?
as far a police surveillance on our internet use, this has been coming since the day we started to put our personal information on the web. prior to that they could intercept our mail, tap our phones(usually only legal with a court order) remember the old party line phones, anything said on the landline phone could become public knowledge if someone else pick the phone up an was listening, or calls thru a switchboard with nosey parker hanging on every word . we are just becoming more sophisticated in how we communicate . i liked the one were all the crims were using a scambler encoder system set up by the cops
with a bit of luck the AUTHORITIES will be to busy using this new power to catch bad guys and won't have time to monitor my coming an goings
oldbloke said
08:50 PM Aug 26, 2021
Um, isn't the dark web primarily the relm of criminals roam? Mainly illegal stuff?
And wouldn't transfering files on my pc be "planting/falsifying evidence"? Unless it's speared I guess.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Thursday 26th of August 2021 08:55:48 PM
oldbloke said
08:59 PM Aug 26, 2021
"with a bit of luck the AUTHORITIES will be to busy using this new power to catch bad guys and won't have time to monitor my coming an goings"
For sure. They have bigger rish to fry. And not a lot of resources.
Mike Harding said
08:09 AM Aug 27, 2021
oldbloke wrote:
Um, isn't the dark web primarily the relm of criminals roam? Mainly illegal stuff?
It is used for that purpose but it's also widely used by dissidents in oppressive countries and people in The West who support them. Indeed the TOR system, upon which the Dark Web runs was developed by the US Navy for exactly that purpose.
dorian said
09:22 AM Aug 27, 2021
Strictly speaking, the "dark web" is anything that a search engine cannot discover by "crawling". Typically this would include those resources (eg datasheets) which are accessed via a web site's own search facility. You can see the result of this when you try to use a web site's search box at the Wayback Machine.
Smudgers said
08:22 AM Aug 28, 2021
Logical and concise. I agree.
if you dont poke the bear and operate illegal activities or borderline illegal activities theres little to fear.
sone people think total freedom is their selfish right, reconsider that after the next terror attack that kills innocents .
-- Edited by Smudgers on Saturday 28th of August 2021 08:23:32 AM
dorian said
09:15 AM Aug 28, 2021
I used to be in Santa's camp years ago, but then along came John Howard, whom his own colleagues called the Lying Rodent. There was his never, never GST, and the children overboard affair, and then the war in Iraq. Alan Wilkie exposed Howard's lies in respect of Iraq, which Howard used to justify Australian involvement, and he passed on this information to SBS reporter, Carmel Travers. Jackboot Johnny then sent an ASIO goon to the office of SBS, where he used a hammer to smash a hard drive belonging to Travers. He told her that he had done this several times before, and he then tried to intimidate her into silence. Fortunately she wasn't cowed, and SBS reported on the incident.
Since then we've experienced Tony Abbot, who is even worse than Howard, and then there was the corrupt NSW Labor government. As I see it, these scumbags have proven that they cannot be entrusted with these wide ranging powers.
Another brick in the wall.
"Federal police and organised crime investigators will be able to take over the online dark web accounts of criminals and terrorists and hack into their networks under new powers that passed Parliament on Wednesday."
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/police-powers-to-hack-and-disrupt-dark-web-pass-parliament-20210825-p58lsr.html
They also can add entrapment tools, as well as adding illegal files to your computer, if they want to bust you, because your computer doesn't have incriminating files. It is part of the package, They will be looking at anybody whom uses a computer, and if they don't like you for some reason, like you make a disparaging comment against the government, then Boom you could be gone. This is fact. You have to read the bill and all it's contents to find out what it is all about. I read it on Friday, on the federal Government website
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 26th of August 2021 12:57:01 AM
Now come on people... you know full well that whenever governments pass laws which may seem oppressive and curtailing of freedoms it's always done for our own good and to disrupt criminals, or reduce child pornography or drug trafficking or terrorism and such.
Never is it done because government or the police or the intelligence services simply want more power and control over their subjects.
That's right, isn't it....
You know what the worse thing is: 26,000,000 people and no one cares.
I suspect there may well be a message there for you Mike, 26,000,000 people in the parade and I'm the only one in step.
Back to the topic under discussion.
Predictable responses from the (enlightened few) begs the question, what activities are you engaging in that makes you so fearful of government persecution?
I've been around the traps for a long time and have dealt with numerous govt departments, never have I encountered any govt behavior that I have felt threatened by.
On the other hand during my 30 years as a JP I have often come across people living on the fringe that are constantly having altercations with officialdom and wonder why, the answer of course is obvious to any thinking person, clean up your act and the problems will suddenly disappear.
Needless to say if you've gained a dubious reputation you most certainly will be on a data base somewhere so you will of course receive a bit of special treatment until you show it's no longer warranted.
I have no problems whatsoever with police monitoring illegal activity on the (dark web) the internet or anywhere else for that matter, any initiative to protect the community from criminal activity is warranted.
We hear people screaming loud and clear when they have been scammed, slandered or whose lives have been adversely affected by illegal drug activity, Ive had personal experience with young children gaining access to hard core porn, if parents are unable to control what their kids view online then its well and truly time for the govt to legislate to force service providers to block this type of material, if you feel this is another infringement of your freedom then I strongly suggest you have very close look at your moral compass.
The above is exactly why you and I often do not see eye-to-eye Santa:
You believe that if another's "moral compass" differs from yours then they are wrong and you are right.
Morals are a bit like facts Mike, you have the facts and as Kellyanne Conway informed us we have alternative facts.
Aristotle has this to say about morality, "Aristotle defines moral virtue as a disposition to behave in the right manner and as a mean between extremes of deficiency and excess, which are vices." His thoughts on morals are valid to this day.
That reads like a tautology. Morals are those behaviours which are right, and right behaviours are those which are moral. The statement would only have meaning if what is "right" were some independent, absolute standard, not the subjective opinion of the utterer.
Selective quoting is seldom a good idea Dorian, what was said was
"Aristotle defines moral virtue as a disposition to behave in the right manner and as a mean between extremes of deficiency and excess, which are vices."
Not difficult to understand when read in full.
Santa: it seems to me that you have a defined set of morals which you have, no doubt, thoughtfully determined over the years and have decided they are the sole rules by which to live and, therefore, those who do not adhere to your rules are heretics.
I put it to you that morality is flexible:
Once it was moral to buy and sell slaves, now it is not.
I consider myself to be a moral person but I would steal a pen from the office; however I would not steal one from a blind man on the street who was selling pens.
The concept of a "mean" morality is useless - the mean is simply the aggregate between the maximum and the minimum so if I am 1% inside either boundary does that make me moral?
Is it moral to abort the baby of a rape? Does that differ depending upon whether the rape was a "grab off the street" or her ex. husband and father of previous children when they were trying to get back together?
One thing I have learned over the years is that the older I become the less sure of what is right and what is wrong I am.
I commend the following BBC radio programme to you:
The Moral Maze
could this be what is happening when people protest against all the lockdowns, are the people starting to rise up?
as far a police surveillance on our internet use, this has been coming since the day we started to put our personal information on the web. prior to that they could intercept our mail, tap our phones(usually only legal with a court order) remember the old party line phones, anything said on the landline phone could become public knowledge if someone else pick the phone up an was listening, or calls thru a switchboard with nosey parker hanging on every word . we are just becoming more sophisticated in how we communicate . i liked the one were all the crims were using a scambler encoder system set up by the cops
with a bit of luck the AUTHORITIES will be to busy using this new power to catch bad guys and won't have time to monitor my coming an goings
Um, isn't the dark web primarily the relm of criminals roam? Mainly illegal stuff?
And wouldn't transfering files on my pc be "planting/falsifying evidence"? Unless it's speared I guess.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Thursday 26th of August 2021 08:55:48 PM
For sure. They have bigger rish to fry. And not a lot of resources.
It is used for that purpose but it's also widely used by dissidents in oppressive countries and people in The West who support them. Indeed the TOR system, upon which the Dark Web runs was developed by the US Navy for exactly that purpose.
Logical and concise. I agree.
if you dont poke the bear and operate illegal activities or borderline illegal activities theres little to fear.
sone people think total freedom is their selfish right, reconsider that after the next terror attack that kills innocents .
-- Edited by Smudgers on Saturday 28th of August 2021 08:23:32 AM
Since then we've experienced Tony Abbot, who is even worse than Howard, and then there was the corrupt NSW Labor government. As I see it, these scumbags have proven that they cannot be entrusted with these wide ranging powers.