Thanks. This thread is yet another example where people allow their personal prejudices to blind them to the facts. The obvious red flag in this case was the absence of context.
Dougwe said
06:59 AM Jun 16, 2021
Bugga, I was expecting to see dead green cars and green batteries.
I thought you had found an Alien grave yard. Aliens! They are out there.
Craig1 said
09:29 AM Jun 16, 2021
Guilty, Dorian. but watch out Victoria for power. I hope not but can easily happen. I will also send your link to my provider
peter67 said
10:40 AM Jun 16, 2021
Well the context for me is that yet again it's a huge waste of taxpayers money on a technology that is not financially viable, a common thread for the "woke" ev proponents. We all need to wait for the next huge step in battery technology. I wonder what the taxpayers over there think of wasting 293 million euros ( 462 million Aussie dollars ) on that well thought out plan ?
DMaxer said
10:45 AM Jun 16, 2021
When they land I am going to tell them all the things you have been saying about them Doug.
Both you and Mike will be beamed up and taken to the planet Zorb and forced to work in a galactic WDH factory.
bgt said
11:07 AM Jun 16, 2021
Take all government money, ALL subsidies, from all sides of the debate, and let the market decide what will happen. The whole issues is so distorted by subsidies and biased reporting that none of us mere mortals have any real idea of what is happening. The majority of folks are simply repeating the side of the debate that suites their philosophy.
dorian said
11:52 AM Jun 16, 2021
Craig1 wrote:
Guilty, Dorian. but watch out Victoria for power. I hope not but can easily happen. I will also send your link to my provider
I can't see any economic sense in buying an EV. I'll only buy one if there is no ICE alternative.
landy said
12:08 PM Jun 16, 2021
Thanks dabbler for the link. I wish I had had it a couple of months ago when a friend sent me that photo and land fill contamination story. Apparently Still plenty of useful life in an electric car battery when it is no longer fit for powering an EV. From some of the research I have done if repurposed enough to power the average home for a day or two. The battery modules inside can also be built into custom shaped units for convenient fitting into Motor homes and caravans. Plenty of info on you tube if anyone is interested. I'm not really sure why some people are so against EV's, after all the EV of today is just the cordless drill of the 90's, a useful tool for odd jobs, now for most people it is our drill of choice. Landy
-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 12:10:41 PM
Are We Lost said
12:29 PM Jun 16, 2021
landy wrote:
.......
I'm not really sure why some people are so against EV's, after all the EV of today is just the cordless drill of the 90's, a useful tool for odd jobs, now for most people it is our drill of choice. Landy
-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 12:10:41 PM
I think you have just answered your own pondering. It would have been a foolish person in the 90's to rely on a cordless drill. Now 25-30 years later they have evolved into useful and reliable tools .... but still nowhere near as good as a 240v volt one where sustained power is required.
So maybe in 25-30 years time, electric vehicles will have been developed to the point that they do satisfy most requirements. There is no other viable alternative to oil or battery at present.
While I believe they must become mainstream at one point because the earth's supply of oil is not endless, I would not choose one at present. And assuming battery and EV technology does move ahead in leaps and bounds, what will that do to the resale of the current electric vehicles?
dabbler said
12:43 PM Jun 16, 2021
There are plenty of verifiable sources to give more comprehensive information on the points being raised if only people would research them. The idea that EV are heavily subsidized in Australia is sheer nonsense and easily checked and dispelled for instance. Total cost of ownership reports by Australian motoring writers might surprise people too. Of course it's horses for courses but the issue is the choice of horses is changing. Failing to recognise and explore this to the full extent is a poor personal decision.
peter67 said
05:58 PM Jun 16, 2021
Ok I'm going to ask a poor question as well. What is the difference in power consumed overnight recharging of your typical EV vehicle at home, and say, the power consumed at at home by the average family over a WHOLE day? because right now a lot of states are struggling re power generation, imagine trying to keep the grid alive with say 25% of people taking up an EV tomorrow? (subject to availability and gummint subsidies) kinda pulling your leg.
peter67 said
06:08 PM Jun 16, 2021
ps I'm picking we are going to be digging more coal out of the ground and recommissioning old coal fired generators to supply enough power :) for this EV dream...
bgt said
07:30 PM Jun 16, 2021
peter67 don't worry about it. It has all been worked out. There's a bunch of folks currently in mid NSW rounding up mice. The Greens apparently organized it. Bob Brown is the co-ordinator. They will take them back to the various wind farms. When the winds not blowing they are going to get all those mice to peddle like hell and keep the wind turbines turning. Using mice is a guaranteed solution. They breed so fast that there will always be a constant supply of mice to turn the wheels.
It's a win win. Farmers get rid of the mice. Mice get to breed to their little hearts content. And we all get renewable power without that dirty black stuff.
Craig1 said
08:48 PM Jun 16, 2021
Bruce,
You are so wrong, PETA will be all over that little windmill
landy said
09:25 PM Jun 16, 2021
Are We Lost wrote:
landy wrote:
.......
I'm not really sure why some people are so against EV's, after all the EV of today is just the cordless drill of the 90's, a useful tool for odd jobs, now for most people it is our drill of choice. Landy
-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 12:10:41 PM
I think you have just answered your own pondering. It would have been a foolish person in the 90's to rely on a cordless drill. Now 25-30 years later they have evolved into useful and reliable tools .... but still nowhere near as good as a 240v volt one where sustained power is required.
So maybe in 25-30 years time, electric vehicles will have been developed to the point that they do satisfy most requirements. There is no other viable alternative to oil or battery at present.
While I believe they must become mainstream at one point because the earth's supply of oil is not endless, I would not choose one at present. And assuming battery and EV technology does move ahead in leaps and bounds, what will that do to the resale of the current electric vehicles?
No you seem to have missed my point Are We Lost. Its nothing to do with how far EV's still have to go in there evolution, but why people seem to feel so threatened by them ( Shares in an oil company maybe ). I'm sure as they get more fit for purpose, cost, infrastructure, etc Just like the cordless drill they will get more and more market share. So why all the paranoia, If it doesn't fit your purpose just don't buy one simples.
When it comes to the resale of current EV,s I cant see it being a lot different to any other form of the motor car over the last hundred years, the more you pay for a vehicle the more you lose unless it happens to be a true collectors model like our Morris eight (: which is now worth a lot lot more now than when it was new.
As far as 240 volt drills go after having several large construction jobs done on my property over the last few years the only 240 volt drill cord I have seen was connected to the charger for the spare battery. Landy
Mike Harding said
08:17 AM Jun 17, 2021
landy wrote:
but why people seem to feel so threatened by them
Threatened is too strong a word but I have a concern about their effect upon conventional cars.
In the main; Australia is only suitable for electric vehicles in its cities and there is some merit in encouraging their use there - although the grid is not currently able to support them. What concerns me is that governments (state and federal) will put in place measures which disadvantage conventional cars in order to force market uptake of EVs - increase petrol and registration taxes etc, they'll do this because EVs are currently sexy and the green (small g) vote, which mainly lives in the cities, thinks they are wonderful and will save the planet. This will seriously disadvantage country dwellers and travellers who have no EV option for 90% of their driving and who probably don't wish to dump a perfectly good $60k car.
I plan to keep my diesel vehicle for the next 20+ years and don't wish to see an unreasonable tax burden heaped upon me in order that batteries from EVs may be recycled, which is currently a very difficult and expensive process.
If/when EVs are good enough to cope with Australian country conditions then the market will naturally morph towards them - don't push it unreasonably in the meantime simply to make the greenies feel good.
landy said
10:17 PM Jun 17, 2021
I don't think we need to have any concern about that for a long time yet Mike before the government can apply any pressure to make the EV swap they need to first provide the the infrastructure to recharge them. At the moment If there was any significant uptake of EV's I do not believe our power grid could sustain it as you rightly point out. Just yesterday I had an email from my power company trying to bribe me into turning off appliances whenever they send me a text message. Secondly when these vehicles are on the road, being as they take 4 times as long to refuel as a standard vehicle we conservatively would need twice as many electric bowsers than we currently use for our petrol and diesel vehicles.
What concerns me is that governments (state and federal) will put in place measures which disadvantage conventional cars in order to force market uptake of EVs - increase petrol and registration taxes etc,
It would appear that at the moment that exactly the opposite is happening with state governments increasing rego fee's on electric vehicles ( extra $300 in Victoria) and unlike other country's no government incentives to purchase a vehicle that is often 15 - $20,000. dearer than its petrol /diesel equivalent. I would call these things disincentives.
Yes the Federal government is under pressure to reduce emissions but I think that comes more from our over sea,s trading partners ( who have no idea of Australia's needs ) using trade deals as a leaver , than it does from the squeaking of our greens party.
Like you I have no intentions of trading tugs for a long long time.
Landy
oldbloke said
07:35 AM Jun 18, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
landy wrote:
but why people seem to feel so threatened by them
Threatened is too strong a word but I have a concern about their effect upon conventional cars.
In the main; Australia is only suitable for electric vehicles in its cities and there is some merit in encouraging their use there - although the grid is not currently able to support them. What concerns me is that governments (state and federal) will put in place measures which disadvantage conventional cars in order to force market uptake of EVs - increase petrol and registration taxes etc, they'll do this because EVs are currently sexy and the green (small g) vote, which mainly lives in the cities, thinks they are wonderful and will save the planet. This will seriously disadvantage country dwellers and travellers who have no EV option for 90% of their driving and who probably don't wish to dump a perfectly good $60k car.
I plan to keep my diesel vehicle for the next 20+ years and don't wish to see an unreasonable tax burden heaped upon me in order that batteries from EVs may be recycled, which is currently a very difficult and expensive process.
If/when EVs are good enough to cope with Australian country conditions then the market will naturally morph towards them - don't push it unreasonably in the meantime simply to make the greenies feel good.
lots of them
In Paris, the barttery dies, a new one costs more than the car, landfill will not take batteries. They belong to City of Paris.
Thanks. This thread is yet another example where people allow their personal prejudices to blind them to the facts. The obvious red flag in this case was the absence of context.
I thought you had found an Alien grave yard. Aliens! They are out there.
When they land I am going to tell them all the things you have been saying about them Doug.
Both you and Mike will be beamed up and taken to the planet Zorb and forced to work in a galactic WDH factory.
I can't see any economic sense in buying an EV. I'll only buy one if there is no ICE alternative.
Apparently Still plenty of useful life in an electric car battery when it is no longer fit for powering an EV. From some of the research I have done if repurposed enough to power the average home for a day or two. The battery modules inside can also be built into custom shaped units for convenient fitting into Motor homes and caravans. Plenty of info on you tube if anyone is interested.
I'm not really sure why some people are so against EV's, after all the EV of today is just the cordless drill of the 90's,
a useful tool for odd jobs, now for most people it is our drill of choice.
Landy
-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 12:10:41 PM
I think you have just answered your own pondering. It would have been a foolish person in the 90's to rely on a cordless drill. Now 25-30 years later they have evolved into useful and reliable tools .... but still nowhere near as good as a 240v volt one where sustained power is required.
So maybe in 25-30 years time, electric vehicles will have been developed to the point that they do satisfy most requirements. There is no other viable alternative to oil or battery at present.
While I believe they must become mainstream at one point because the earth's supply of oil is not endless, I would not choose one at present. And assuming battery and EV technology does move ahead in leaps and bounds, what will that do to the resale of the current electric vehicles?
It's a win win. Farmers get rid of the mice. Mice get to breed to their little hearts content. And we all get renewable power without that dirty black stuff.
You are so wrong, PETA will be all over that little windmill
No you seem to have missed my point Are We Lost. Its nothing to do with how far EV's still have to go in there evolution, but why people seem to feel so threatened by them ( Shares in an oil company maybe ). I'm sure as they get more fit for purpose, cost, infrastructure, etc Just like the cordless drill they will get more and more market share. So why all the paranoia, If it doesn't fit your purpose just don't buy one simples.
When it comes to the resale of current EV,s I cant see it being a lot different to any other form of the motor car over the last hundred years, the more you pay for a vehicle the more you lose unless it happens to be a true collectors model like our Morris eight (: which is now worth a lot lot more now than when it was new.
As far as 240 volt drills go after having several large construction jobs done on my property over the last few years the only 240 volt drill cord I have seen was connected to the charger for the spare battery.
Landy
Threatened is too strong a word but I have a concern about their effect upon conventional cars.
In the main; Australia is only suitable for electric vehicles in its cities and there is some merit in encouraging their use there - although the grid is not currently able to support them. What concerns me is that governments (state and federal) will put in place measures which disadvantage conventional cars in order to force market uptake of EVs - increase petrol and registration taxes etc, they'll do this because EVs are currently sexy and the green (small g) vote, which mainly lives in the cities, thinks they are wonderful and will save the planet. This will seriously disadvantage country dwellers and travellers who have no EV option for 90% of their driving and who probably don't wish to dump a perfectly good $60k car.
I plan to keep my diesel vehicle for the next 20+ years and don't wish to see an unreasonable tax burden heaped upon me in order that batteries from EVs may be recycled, which is currently a very difficult and expensive process.
If/when EVs are good enough to cope with Australian country conditions then the market will naturally morph towards them - don't push it unreasonably in the meantime simply to make the greenies feel good.
What concerns me is that governments (state and federal) will put in place measures which disadvantage conventional cars in order to force market uptake of EVs - increase petrol and registration taxes etc,
It would appear that at the moment that exactly the opposite is happening with state governments increasing rego fee's on electric vehicles ( extra $300 in Victoria) and unlike other country's no government incentives to purchase a vehicle that is often 15 - $20,000. dearer than its petrol /diesel equivalent. I would call these things disincentives.
Yes the Federal government is under pressure to reduce emissions but I think that comes more from our over sea,s trading partners ( who have no idea of Australia's needs ) using trade deals as a leaver , than it does from the squeaking of our greens party.
Like you I have no intentions of trading tugs for a long long time.
Landy
You read my mind.