100Ah battery needs 80, so that's 11.6kg just for the batteries alone.
dorian said
12:39 AM Mar 20, 2021
I've been looking at a lot of LiFePO4 batteries. I found one manufacturer who makes a 100Ah 3.2V battery with a weight of 2.0kg. That's 8kg for 100Ah 12V. Most others are around 12kg for the complete battery. Victron's batteries seem a lot heavier than most of the others. If we compare the 9.6kg Voltax battery against the 12kg average, then it weighs as much as an average 80Ah unit.
A 12.8V 100Ah Tesla equivalent battery would weigh 10.4kg.
114 kg / (14 kWh / 12.8V / 100 Ah) = 10.4kg
-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 20th of March 2021 12:51:57 AM
Jaahn said
05:48 PM Mar 20, 2021
Hmm
Your worst fears come to life !! I guess shopping at the cheap end of the market is always full of surprises. You do need to get up early and do your search for real information diligently. What I fear is that these padded out small batteries will be resold by retailers that do not have any idea, or are just local scammers Similar to the cheap MPPT regulator fakes.
Jaahn
Whenarewethere said
06:04 PM Mar 20, 2021
Before you buy any battery get its specifications. This is for my 4 batteries in parallel for my fridge.
Strangely, there is no mention of LiFePO4 in Winston's datasheet. However, the model names would imply that the chemistry is indeed LiFePO4, eg LFP260AHA. The older product marking is LYP260AHA (what does "Y" mean?)
The max and min limits are 2.5V and 4.0V. Nominal voltage is 3.2V.
The LFP400AHA (3.2V 400Ah) battery weighs 13.7kg, so that would also be the weight of a 12.8V 100Ah battery. That seems to tally with Victron's specs.
It seems very strange that the manufacturer would omit the cell chemistry from the datasheet.
"LiFeYPO4 Battery is created by Winston Chung, Founder of Thunder Sky Winston Battery Limited located in Shenzhen, China. its full name is rare earth yttrium lithium battery."
"Winston LiFeYPO4 Battery is a kind of high power lithium ion battery and its different with the traditional lithium ion battery and lithium iron phosphate battery. Winston LiFeYPO4 Battery has much better performance on high rate discharge and performance on low and high temperate. the range of working temperate is from -45C to 85C. and the cycle life is as much as 7000 times at 70% DOD."
"Yttrium currently has no known biological role, and it can be highly toxic to humans, animals and plants."
"Exposure to yttrium compounds in humans may cause lung disease."
-- Edited by dorian on Sunday 21st of March 2021 07:55:08 AM
Jaahn said
10:31 AM Mar 21, 2021
Hi Dorian :) Here is an Australian manufacturer of batteries they assemble from bought in cells. They just sent me a flyer as I have bought from them in the past. Not cheap but they do offer 10years guarantee and an Australian base ! They have their specs available. I will put up their technical information page for some general information. www.lfp.net.au/technical Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 21st of March 2021 04:10:06 PM
The Travelling Dillberries said
12:35 PM Mar 21, 2021
Jaahn wrote:
Hi Dorian :) Here is an Australian manufacturer of assembled batteries. They just sent me a flyer as I have bought from them in the past. Not cheap but they do offer 10years guarantee and an Australian base ! They have their specs available. I will put up their technical information page for some general information. www.lfp.net.au/technical Jaahn
Hi Jaahn, Is the wording correct, perhaps if they are importing Chinese parts, manufactured in China it should read Chinese manufactured and assembled in Australia.
The 10 year warranty is only if you spend a minimum of $4390.00 on a new battery. The every day Nomad batteries have the usual poor 3 year did I say poor warranty.
Thanks for the link.
Chris.
Whenarewethere said
01:42 PM Mar 21, 2021
This battery pack is 24Ah 2.464kg. Not large enough for an auxiliary battery. But with minimal casing it still works out at 10.266kg for 100Ah.
This is a good video 12m26s, you can whip through parts quicker, but, there is some good explanation & testing of one cell on a testing device icharger X6.
Is was noted that only one cell was tested, nevertheless it had a disappointing capacity. A reasonable BMS but it was covered so cooling is not good.
A bit of insight for us novices to arm ourselves!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=68ypBszeEPs
Whenarewethere said
02:39 PM Aug 14, 2021
Inside a Voltax battery, lots of air & a small battery.
Examples of what one may find if they open up a lithium battery. Good, bad & not even heavy enough for a door stop!
Victron
Some examples at the other end of the spectrum:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ImF1S730bFM
https://youtu.be/-gH_ZRqHYtk
Looking at specs on 32650 batteries 5Ah 145g.
100Ah battery needs 80, so that's 11.6kg just for the batteries alone.
I've been looking at a lot of LiFePO4 batteries. I found one manufacturer who makes a 100Ah 3.2V battery with a weight of 2.0kg. That's 8kg for 100Ah 12V. Most others are around 12kg for the complete battery. Victron's batteries seem a lot heavier than most of the others. If we compare the 9.6kg Voltax battery against the 12kg average, then it weighs as much as an average 80Ah unit.
Here is a Tesla Powerwall:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall%202_AC_Datasheet_en_AU.pdf
Total Energy - 14kWh
Weight - 114kg
A 12.8V 100Ah Tesla equivalent battery would weigh 10.4kg.
114 kg / (14 kWh / 12.8V / 100 Ah) = 10.4kg
-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 20th of March 2021 12:51:57 AM
Hmm
Your worst fears come to life !! I guess shopping at the cheap end of the market is always full of surprises. You do need to get up early and do your search for real information diligently.
What I fear is that these padded out small batteries will be resold by retailers that do not have any idea, or are just local scammers 
Similar to the cheap MPPT regulator fakes.
Jaahn
Before you buy any battery get its specifications. This is for my 4 batteries in parallel for my fridge.
The batteries inside the Victron looks a bit like a Winston.
http://en.winston-battery.com/index.php/products/power-battery
Winston's product range appear to be all Lithium-Ion chemistries with a charging voltage of 4V or 16V. I don't see any LiFePO4 batteries.
Edit:
Datasheet with specs and dimensions for several Winston batteries:
https://www.swiss-green.ch/9043500_datasheet_FR.pdf
Strangely, there is no mention of LiFePO4 in Winston's datasheet. However, the model names would imply that the chemistry is indeed LiFePO4, eg LFP260AHA. The older product marking is LYP260AHA (what does "Y" mean?)
The max and min limits are 2.5V and 4.0V. Nominal voltage is 3.2V.
The LFP400AHA (3.2V 400Ah) battery weighs 13.7kg, so that would also be the weight of a 12.8V 100Ah battery. That seems to tally with Victron's specs.
It seems very strange that the manufacturer would omit the cell chemistry from the datasheet.
Edit #2:
"Y" = yttrium
"LYP" models are LiFeYPO4 cells:
https://www.ev-power.eu/docs/pdf/Winston-InternalResistance.pdf
"Winston LiFeYPO4 Battery"
"LiFeYPO4 Battery is created by Winston Chung, Founder of Thunder Sky Winston Battery Limited located in Shenzhen, China.
its full name is rare earth yttrium lithium battery."
"Winston LiFeYPO4 Battery is a kind of high power lithium ion battery and its different with the traditional lithium ion battery and lithium iron phosphate battery. Winston LiFeYPO4 Battery has much better performance on high rate discharge and performance on low and high temperate. the range of working temperate is from -45C to 85C. and the cycle life is as much as 7000 times at 70% DOD."
Why would a manufacturer underplay yttrium?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yttrium#Precautions
"Yttrium currently has no known biological role, and it can be highly toxic to humans, animals and plants."
"Exposure to yttrium compounds in humans may cause lung disease."
-- Edited by dorian on Sunday 21st of March 2021 07:55:08 AM
Hi Dorian :)
Here is an Australian manufacturer of batteries they assemble from bought in cells. They just sent me a flyer as I have bought from them in the past. Not cheap but they do offer 10years guarantee and an Australian base ! They have their specs available. I will put up their technical information page for some general information.
www.lfp.net.au/technical
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 21st of March 2021 04:10:06 PM
Hi Jaahn, Is the wording correct, perhaps if they are importing Chinese parts, manufactured in China it should read Chinese manufactured and assembled in Australia.
The 10 year warranty is only if you spend a minimum of $4390.00 on a new battery. The every day Nomad batteries have the usual poor 3 year did I say poor warranty.
Thanks for the link.
Chris.
This battery pack is 24Ah 2.464kg. Not large enough for an auxiliary battery. But with minimal casing it still works out at 10.266kg for 100Ah.
https://youtu.be/j88H79qjdqs
This is a good video 12m26s, you can whip through parts quicker, but, there is some good explanation & testing of one cell on a testing device icharger X6.
Is was noted that only one cell was tested, nevertheless it had a disappointing capacity. A reasonable BMS but it was covered so cooling is not good.
A bit of insight for us novices to arm ourselves!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=68ypBszeEPs
Inside a Voltax battery, lots of air & a small battery.