There is no guarantee governments, police or armed forces will always be benign - how should we protect ourselves from the possibility of them being repressive?
Edit:
Corrected link target.
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Tuesday 16th of March 2021 12:43:47 PM
Whenarewethere said
06:37 PM Mar 15, 2021
Get a passport for another country & brush up on one's blue water sailing skills!
Possum3 said
06:40 PM Mar 15, 2021
That is why Switzerland population is mandated to own firearms and USA added the 2nd amendment to it's Constitution.
A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Brenda and Alan said
08:25 PM Mar 15, 2021
I would suggest that owning fire arms is not the deterrent you need. I would instead suggest you be very very careful on who you vote for at elections. This includes federal, state and local council. Find out about who is standing and what their beliefs and agenda are before the election and vote accordingly. Ignore totally party politics or you will end up with politicians you cant abide.
Alan
Brenda and Alan said
08:28 PM Mar 15, 2021
Possum3 wrote:
That is why Switzerland population is mandated to own firearms and USA added the 2nd amendment to it's Constitution. A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
That is not why Switzerland have firearms in almost every home it is part or their military service as defense from invasion.
Alan
Craig1 said
09:06 PM Mar 15, 2021
Well, lets stick with our Constitutional Monarchy system for starters. I know, Queen horse face is a probability, but Will and Kate wont be far behind.
Our system is not broken, we have survived several idiots on both sides of politics and still do much much better than most of the world.
I would trust our defence forces better than giving arms to the minority that feature on "their assorted abc", or "current lack of affair".
Over spaced maybe clearer?
Tony LEE said
09:40 PM Mar 15, 2021
Bit of black humour eh Possum
"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Not at all relevant to Switzerland protecting the country from its own government and a total farce in the USA
oldbloke said
10:18 PM Mar 15, 2021
My take.
People need access to firearms. Otherwise we have no defence against a dodgy dictator or party. But not like the USA, need some limitations. What we have is close to what should be.
Don't vote for major parties. They do not represent society.
We need more "normal" people in parliament.
Parliament should reflect society, not professional politicians.
Vote for independents.
Be politically aware or active. Make your vote count.
Need good free journalism like ABC.
oldbloke said
10:25 PM Mar 15, 2021
I'll add.
Social equality is important.
Sup I rt for pensioners and unemployed.
Fairer distribution of wealth
Good medical system
Good mental health system
Social housing
US has problems with all of the above. We are doing a lot better.
Trevor 57 said
06:20 AM Mar 16, 2021
People got all excited about our ADF taking a 'policing' roll during the COVID, fact is they cannot raise arms against their country, it is in the 'rules'
If you are looking at Myanmar, then look closely at their Constitution, the Military is embedded in their constitution, hence the recent military take over. Aung San Suu Kyi was trying to pass legislation that reduced the military powers in the Constitution and they didn't like the idea
Comparing Australian to Myanmar Constitutions is like comparing fresh water to salt water, they are both Constitutions but . . . . . . . .
bgt said
10:45 AM Mar 16, 2021
In the USA the right to bear arms has been hijacked. It was intended as a defence by the population of invaders. Not to have them like toys. Read the US constitution.
Aus-Kiwi said
10:46 AM Mar 16, 2021
Lived in US . Trust me we DONT need military guns in every house !! The type of weapons military use these days . Theres no chance of fighting them ! It will only end up in bloodshed !! Children every day accidentally shoot themselves or each other playing with family guns . It happens so often it doesnt hit the news . The law was fine back in the days of musket guns ! Total different world . Besides would you depend on drug gangs etc they carry guns too !
Mike Harding said
12:58 PM Mar 16, 2021
I don't wish for this to become a:
Guns = good
or
Guns = bad
debate but rather a considered discussion about the real possibility of very bad and repressive government developing and what we can do:
1 - to prevent it
2 - to change it if it happens
I think most Western societies are very lazy when it comes to their freedom, they take it for granted and think it can never be removed - Australia is especially complacent in this regard it seems to me.
Consider how close the recent Melbourne lockdown was to martial law? I'm not suggesting Dan was trying to rule the world and I acknowledge there was good reason for the action but it illustrates how easily such, and more repressive, control may be imposed and how quickly too!
Keep in mind such things will always be done because "there is a good reason", invariably to "protect" us from something and I don't think we have a way of fighting back - under the Covid thing you could not even organise a protest march!
So is our plan to prevent such possible tyranny simply to "hope it doesn't happen" or can we come up with something rather more concrete and practical - I am not hopeful.
----
Trevor57:
>they cannot raise arms against their country, it is in the 'rules'
Trevor: call me a cynic if you will but in such situations I rather think the "rules" will no longer apply. Your faith is touching.
bgt said
03:15 PM Mar 16, 2021
First the lock downs. I'm amazed at how compliant Australians were/are. I would have bet a few more middle fingers would have been noticed by the politicians. The QLD and WA elections prove something. No idea what but scaring people and locking them up worked politically.
I'm not a constitutional expert!!! Who is? But Kerr did something that I'm sure can still be done. Sack a government. But what are the triggers?
I also worry that both Labor and Liberals can't remove their leaders now with just a simple majority. Either party is capable of having a clown as a leader. It's so much harder now to give the clown the flick.
Tony Bev said
03:29 PM Mar 16, 2021
The only way I can think of, is to always use my vote at elections, and support democracy, by smiling if my (flavour of the day) pollie, is not first over the line
If (like Myanmar) some despot had decided that my vote no longer counted, then the only alternative I know, is to use the gun
But I will point out, I would weigh up all the facts and options, before I took up the gun, as civil war is probably the second worst thing, a country can go through
peter67 said
07:21 PM Mar 16, 2021
Mike, I remember hearing John Howards reply to a journalist's question about the newly emerging interweb being available to the general public back in the nineties, we don't think it's a good idea he said, people all over the world will be able to talk to each other.
Tony, anyone who studies what has happened in Africa from the 1960,s onwards would never wish that on anyone.
Bicyclecamper said
12:13 AM Mar 17, 2021
We have a perceived freedom, when you look properly into that, you will realize how much freedom we don't have anymore, as opposed to the 1980's. It is all gone from that era. Look at the 327 new laws made since the liberals have come to power, about freedoms we have lost. It is an eye opener. One law, that I hate, is, we are not allowed as citizens of this country to go to certain other countries in the world. We will be prosecuted if we go there by our own government, no matter how innocent the reason is that we want to go there for. How free are we, really.?
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 17th of March 2021 12:21:10 AM
bgt said
09:46 AM Mar 17, 2021
It's a bit rich blaming the right for loss of our so called freedoms when it's the left pushing all the loonies PC stuff that is silencing free speech.
Our freedom of speech was what made Australia so great. Now the loonies PC mob have banned the Muppets. Dr Seuss. Schools who ban the words 'mum' and 'dad'. Unless we can stop this madness we're all doomed to think like robots. PC robots. Dont blame the politicians. Blame yourself for allowing this crap.
Kebbin said
10:23 AM Mar 17, 2021
Can the Australian Defence Force be called on during domestic unrest?
Recoup said
10:44 AM Mar 17, 2021
bgt wrote:
Don't blame the politicians. Blame yourself for allowing this crap.
And how do we stop allowing this crap ? Cheers
msg said
10:50 AM Mar 17, 2021
Can the Australian Defence Force be called on during domestic unrest?
Try wading through this and then see if you can come to any conclusion.
Msg, Forgotten by me " Bowral Callout ", almost an invasion of Bowral, non violent, but happened. As for the rest of the hundreds of pages, totally dependent on the individuals of the day who are in command.
bgt said
11:23 AM Mar 17, 2021
Recoup you vote for those who stand up against it.
Kebbin said
12:18 PM Mar 17, 2021
It was in responce to the hilton bombing and the need to hold the CHOG meeting away from Sydney, so 1st Task Force provide security & communications.
Recoup said
12:23 PM Mar 17, 2021
bgt wrote:
Recoup you vote for those who stand up against it.
Nahhh ,won't work ,different colour same poop.
bgt said
01:05 PM Mar 17, 2021
Recoup I think you are close to the mark.
dorian said
04:39 PM Mar 17, 2021
bgt wrote:
It's a bit rich blaming the right for loss of our so called freedoms when it's the left pushing all the loonies PC stuff that is silencing free speech. Our freedom of speech was what made Australia so great.
Wrong. Australia has no bill of rights. We do not have the explicit right to freedom of speech. Abbott and company introduced a law that would send me to jail if I publicised the plight of asylum seekers in Nauru or PNG or wherever they are today. He couldn't have done that if our constitution guaranteed us freedom of speech.
bgt said
05:35 PM Mar 17, 2021
Dorian your talking a technical issues. And may well be right. Are right. But throughout Australia's short history the larakin Aussie has always been able to boo at football. Tell a joke. Voice their opinion to any politician. But the PC, majority from the left, is hell bent on telling us what we can say and when we can say it. It's not the technicality that matters but the perception of having free speech taken away. Booing at the football is no longer seen as supporting your team. It's perceived as some sort of discrimination against goodness knows who. Everyone now is offended on behalf of someone else. We are becoming a country where the only safe place to voice an opinion is behind closed doors. And even then risk having your private conversation made public.
peter67 said
06:05 PM Mar 17, 2021
Steven Fry has some worthwhile comments about people who can't seem to have a happy day without being offended. Personally I don't like people who use the 'that's a racist comment' tactic to prevent a full conversation about any topic under discussion, they have a hard time understanding that your are disagreeing with the point they are making, not who they are.
Myanmar - Burma
There is no guarantee governments, police or armed forces will always be benign - how should we protect ourselves from the possibility of them being repressive?
Edit:
Corrected link target.
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Tuesday 16th of March 2021 12:43:47 PM
Get a passport for another country & brush up on one's blue water sailing skills!
A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I would suggest that owning fire arms is not the deterrent you need. I would instead suggest you be very very careful on who you vote for at elections. This includes federal, state and local council. Find out about who is standing and what their beliefs and agenda are before the election and vote accordingly. Ignore totally party politics or you will end up with politicians you cant abide.
Alan
That is not why Switzerland have firearms in almost every home it is part or their military service as defense from invasion.
Alan
Our system is not broken, we have survived several idiots on both sides of politics and still do much much better than most of the world.
I would trust our defence forces better than giving arms to the minority that feature on "their assorted abc", or "current lack of affair".
Over spaced maybe clearer?
People need access to firearms. Otherwise we have no defence against a dodgy dictator or party. But not like the USA, need some limitations. What we have is close to what should be.
Don't vote for major parties. They do not represent society.
We need more "normal" people in parliament.
Parliament should reflect society, not professional politicians.
Vote for independents.
Be politically aware or active. Make your vote count.
Need good free journalism like ABC.
Social equality is important.
Sup I rt for pensioners and unemployed.
Fairer distribution of wealth
Good medical system
Good mental health system
Social housing
US has problems with all of the above. We are doing a lot better.
If you are looking at Myanmar, then look closely at their Constitution, the Military is embedded in their constitution, hence the recent military take over. Aung San Suu Kyi was trying to pass legislation that reduced the military powers in the Constitution and they didn't like the idea
Comparing Australian to Myanmar Constitutions is like comparing fresh water to salt water, they are both Constitutions but . . . . . . . .
I don't wish for this to become a:
Guns = good
or
Guns = bad
debate but rather a considered discussion about the real possibility of very bad and repressive government developing and what we can do:
1 - to prevent it
2 - to change it if it happens
I think most Western societies are very lazy when it comes to their freedom, they take it for granted and think it can never be removed - Australia is especially complacent in this regard it seems to me.
Consider how close the recent Melbourne lockdown was to martial law? I'm not suggesting Dan was trying to rule the world and I acknowledge there was good reason for the action but it illustrates how easily such, and more repressive, control may be imposed and how quickly too!
Keep in mind such things will always be done because "there is a good reason", invariably to "protect" us from something and I don't think we have a way of fighting back - under the Covid thing you could not even organise a protest march!
So is our plan to prevent such possible tyranny simply to "hope it doesn't happen" or can we come up with something rather more concrete and practical - I am not hopeful.
----
Trevor57:
>they cannot raise arms against their country, it is in the 'rules'
Trevor: call me a cynic if you will but in such situations I rather think the "rules" will no longer apply. Your faith is touching.
If (like Myanmar) some despot had decided that my vote no longer counted, then the only alternative I know, is to use the gun
But I will point out, I would weigh up all the facts and options, before I took up the gun, as civil war is probably the second worst thing, a country can go through
Tony, anyone who studies what has happened in Africa from the 1960,s onwards would never wish that on anyone.
We have a perceived freedom, when you look properly into that, you will realize how much freedom we don't have anymore, as opposed to the 1980's. It is all gone from that era. Look at the 327 new laws made since the liberals have come to power, about freedoms we have lost. It is an eye opener. One law, that I hate, is, we are not allowed as citizens of this country to go to certain other countries in the world. We will be prosecuted if we go there by our own government, no matter how innocent the reason is that we want to go there for. How free are we, really.?
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 17th of March 2021 12:21:10 AM
And how do we stop allowing this crap ? Cheers
Can the Australian Defence Force be called on during domestic unrest?
Try wading through this and then see if you can come to any conclusion.
www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/RP9798/98rp08
Nahhh ,won't work ,different colour same poop.
Wrong. Australia has no bill of rights. We do not have the explicit right to freedom of speech. Abbott and company introduced a law that would send me to jail if I publicised the plight of asylum seekers in Nauru or PNG or wherever they are today. He couldn't have done that if our constitution guaranteed us freedom of speech.