No techie here and asking for some help but please help in Solar 101 language.
I have just put in three new AGM 105ah batteries. These are fed by 600w solar. I have a 1500w inverter.
Batteries are powering the fridge beautifully and all 12v lights are fine. However, when I switch the inverter on, the green light comes on for the inverter, I can hear it though it is very quiet, but I don't have 240v to the van lights/power points etc.
I tested the inverter with a small kitchen electrical appliance and appliance worked well.
There is no isolation switch.
What could possibly be the cause of no power through the inverter? I am hoping there is a simple answer to this problem.
I would really appreciate some advice.
With thanks .. Mandi
-- Edited by finleygal on Saturday 6th of March 2021 07:00:50 PM
Tony LEE said
07:22 PM Mar 6, 2021
Is there a circuit breaker hidden on the inverter.
Is it connected via a plug or hard wired.
As always, the make and model of the inverter might get you a better class of advuce
Has the inverter ever worked?
The Travelling Dillberries said
07:25 PM Mar 6, 2021
The power/light circuit breaker has tripped. Try resetting it.
The Travelling Dillberries said
07:37 PM Mar 6, 2021
Sorry, just reread your post. You say the inverter works and the fridge and lights work. So the fridge is 12 volt?
You will not have supply to the power points unless they have been re-wired to the inverter, which is a no no.
Perhaps you need to give us more info re van type, Setec converter or what. Or get professional help.
kesa32 said
08:58 PM Mar 6, 2021
As above ,if it's a charger/ inverter then it should pass 240v when on mains power , otherwise when just using your batteries and no mains you can only get 240v from the inverters output sockets, and yes there's no isolation switch , just power on/ off switch on the inverter
You can run a power board with its own switchs , but yeah it doesn't run through your vans 240v system at all ......
finleygal said
07:51 AM Mar 7, 2021
Thank you all for your replies. I will try and cover the questions in one post.
The van is an older Galaxy by Spaceland, the manufacturers of this now make the Island Star range.
It is a Mishto 1500 sine wave inverter and seems to be hardwired into the van's power system. Has always worked until now lol!
Fridge is 12v/240v so was drawing power from the batteries only. I have tried the inverter with no mains power coming in and it doesn't work. Lights have been wired to work on 12 v with 240v through a switch (something to do with two pole or three pole - qualified electrician did that).
The fridge is new (less than 12 months) and was installed before I intended to go north last year. Also installed was a gas/electric hot water system with internal switches. Border closures put an end to that so I never tested the inverter till yesterday, in preparation to leave in a few weeks.
I have examined the circuit breaker and that has not tripped and mains power works through the van.
There doesn't appear to be a circuit breaker on on the inverter. The output socket has a plug connected and the cord disappears under the inverter. Without unscrewing the inverter from the floor, I don't know where it goes and not sure if should do that.
As a thought, could the wiring for the inverter to the van have been disconnected when the fridge and HWS was connected last year?
Think I am drowning not waving but again, thank you all for your replies. At kesa32 ... think I need professional help after all this ... lolol
Mandi
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 08:00:53 AM
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 08:01:15 AM
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 08:01:56 AM
kesa32 said
08:20 AM Mar 7, 2021
Hi Mandi , lm not an expert by any means , but as mentioned above l m pretty sure it's illegal ? To wire your inverter output into the 24 mains system ,,,,,, lve never explored that , but lm sure there's some ex sparkles on here that would know
Cheers
finleygal said
08:28 AM Mar 7, 2021
Hi Kesa
Marvellous what a few coffees will do to clarify the thinking! I am debating myself as to whether I even need the inverter. I only run a couple of 300-500 w appliances, when it is on, elect blanket if it is cold. I have a honda 2 kva genset if I really need power.
The amount of batteries and solar should enable me to free camp with genset as back-up with a charger if needed after some sunless days. I can always put on an extra blanket on the bed lol and chop the veg by hand and use manual beaters. And free camping doesn't require the use of hair straightener!!!!!
Will check the legality of wiring but at this stage, (hubby did it ... passing the blame here). I am leaning to just not using the inverter as it seems surplus to my requirements and what I have on the van.
Cheers .. Mandi
finleygal said
10:34 AM Mar 7, 2021
Can I please offer my abject apologies to all of you who tried to help me with this problem. My son-in-law (who is obviously used to his brain addled Mother in Law) called this morning to ask if I had connected the external power cord which takes the power from the inverter to the power inlet on the van. Doh!!!
I think a year away from travel and coping with 2020 fused my brain cells! I have just connected said power cord and all 240 v working!! So it is obviously not hardwired anywhere, but installed and connected properly.
I am soooooooo sorry that I asked for a solution when it was there all along. Thank you all for considering my problem and all the offered solutions and advice.
If ever we catch up, I will have cold beer or whiskey for all your help!
Very embarrassed Mandi!
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 10:35:31 AM
The Travelling Dillberries said
12:35 PM Mar 7, 2021
finleygal wrote:
Can I please offer my abject apologies to all of you who tried to help me with this problem. My son-in-law (who is obviously used to his brain addled Mother in Law) called this morning to ask if I had connected the external power cord which takes the power from the inverter to the power inlet on the van. Doh!!!
I think a year away from travel and coping with 2020 fused my brain cells! I have just connected said power cord and all 240 v working!! So it is obviously not hardwired anywhere, but installed and connected properly.
I am soooooooo sorry that I asked for a solution when it was there all along. Thank you all for considering my problem and all the offered solutions and advice.
If ever we catch up, I will have cold beer or whiskey for all your help!
Very embarrassed Mandi!
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 10:35:31 AM
Final advice is to have it all tested by an electrical contractor to ensure it complies with the regulations. It is not just a matter of plugging a lead in from the inverter to the van inlet without having the appropriate safety gear installed.
Cheers, Chris.
Aus-Kiwi said
12:45 PM Mar 7, 2021
I have switches to transfer from one to another . Off/ Generator/ mains/ inverter . . So it keeps both power supplies isolated!!
finleygal said
12:54 PM Mar 7, 2021
Thanks Chris, for your reply but I probably didn't explain properly.
There is an outlet socket and and the normal 15 amp inlet socket on the outside of the van. The power outlet (which I presume connects somehow to the inverter through internal wiring) was installed by an electrician, so the power doesn't actually come directly from the inverter (which I probably described poorly in the above post). I have a short power cord that connects the two points. So if free camping, I just connect the outlet and inlet, and then when I want some 240v power, I switch on the inverter.
When in a park, I just connect the normal 15 amp cord to the inlet point.
Bit hard to explain but I hope this makes sense. I will, however, take your advice as this is an older van, and so will get a sparky to check everything out!
Cheers ... still very embarrassed Mandi
finleygal said
12:57 PM Mar 7, 2021
Thank you Aus Kiwi for good advice. When getting this all checked out by sparky, will see if he will put some switches in for me. I am a solo traveller, so need to know all is well and I can't (hopefully) stuff anything up!
Cheers .. Mandi
Aus-Kiwi said
01:37 PM Mar 7, 2021
Bit of elect info . The reason you cant have two power supplies . Its AC . Alternating current . It has a frequency. If they are opposite each other ? You can get 415v . Doesnt mix or bond like DC power . So you cant have two or more power supplies without fail safe protection !! On the network we have large ( 3 phase )generators it takes quite some time setting them up getting the frequency 100 % !!
finleygal said
02:26 PM Mar 7, 2021
Having dissected that, I don't have a dual power scenario. I either have 240v mains/genset power with 15 amp cord, or 12v through the van with the batteries and the occasional 240v with inverter and small cord while free-camping. The inverter has a switch inside the van that I physically have to turn on to get 240v.
It has to be one or the other for my van. It is not possible with my set-up to have both power options at once. My failsafe is that I have to have one cord or the other.
That was what started this darn thread .. lolol!
But thank you for the explanation
Mandi
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:43 PM Mar 7, 2021
So your inverter has a 15A outlet??????
Cheers,
Peter
finleygal said
07:28 PM Mar 7, 2021
aarrrrghhhhhh ... technical question!! don't do them very well!!!!
I have a short cord which I can plug into a 10amp extension cord and the male is 15amp which goes into the van if ever I am stuck somewhere with only 10 amp power. So I use that small lead to connect the outlet from the inverter to the 15 amp inlet. It is orange and thick. I have a bigger orange thick extension cord that I use in caravan parks with 15 amp power. End of knowledge!
Clear as mud?
I am sorry .. I darn well don't know how all this works but it seems to have worked for me for the last 15 years so if it works, don't fix it?
Sorry I can't be more lucid ... this has been a black hole for me as hubby used to handle all of it, so this is a vertical learning curve.
Mandi
finleygal said
07:46 PM Mar 7, 2021
nope even got that wrong, the male goes into the inverter socket (external) and the female end is 15 amp and connects to the external van socket.
I think I have it right now!
A very befuddled Mandi!
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 07:46:31 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:46 PM Mar 7, 2021
finleygal wrote:
I have a short cord which I can plug into a 10amp extension cord and the male is 15amp which goes into the van if ever I am stuck somewhere with only 10 amp power.
A couple of problems.
That short cord is home made and quite illegal, for lots of valid reasons.
Also you should know that if you plug your inverter into the van inlet as you are, the RCD safety switch will no longer work so there is a significant added risk of electrocution.
Your inverter is designed to be able to run just one devise and that is how it should be used safely.
Cheers,
Peter
finleygal said
07:52 PM Mar 7, 2021
Peter, thank you!
What is an RCD safety switch?
I only ever run one device at a time.
Do I need to have the van rewired to give me a 15 amp outlet from the inverter?
I think I opened a Pandora's box!
Cheers .. Mandi
Aus-Kiwi said
07:53 PM Mar 7, 2021
Mine (2000w) can be used in whole internal circuit !! Depends how its been wired ? Also have seperate inverter for smart TV . The two never meet though !
finleygal said
08:00 PM Mar 7, 2021
just googled and found ampfibian .. is this what I need without re-wiring?
Screed reads ... The Ampfibian RV-PLUS Power Adaptor is specifically designed for caravans/motor homes, allowing you to connect your 15A caravan to any domestic 10A power supply.
Screed reads ... The Ampfibian RV-PLUS Power Adaptor is specifically designed for caravans/motor homes, allowing you to connect your 15A caravan to any domestic 10A power supply.
Mandi
That is the one you need for plugging the van into a 10A supply, but best not to use it for the inverter. Use the inverter directly, one thing at a time.
An RCD safety switch is to protect you (and other members of the family) if something in the 240V wiring goes wrong. There should be one in the van at the inlet box. You will also have them at home in the switch box.
Cheers,
Peter
finleygal said
09:31 AM Mar 8, 2021
Thanks Peter
A simple solution which I can manage. Will investigate and incorporate changes to the van where necessary.
Thank you to all who have helped me.
Cheers .. Mandi
Jaahn said
07:51 AM Mar 9, 2021
finleygal wrote:
Thanks Peter
A simple solution which I can manage. Will investigate and incorporate changes to the van where necessary.
Thank you to all who have helped me.
Cheers .. Mandi
Hi Mandi
Just to backup Peters comments. The electrical system in a caravan has safety features that rely on being plugged into the mains power. They protect you if there is a fault by the earth connection and the RCD in the fuse boxes. All good stuff for your health
When you have an inverter it does not have any of that backup safety like that. So the electrical standard says you should only plug one normal device into the inverter at a time. That works OK and if you need a short cord to get the power to a bench that is OK. You can then just plug in each item when you need it and should be OK. But running the vans whole system from it is not in the standard unless the system has been re-engineered. Also having several normal earthed items plugged in at the same time even when not switched on is also not allowed in the standard. There are technical reasons for this all for your protection.
Jaahn
PS Note for the technical minded you can use double insulated items together but not normal earthed items.
-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 9th of March 2021 07:54:20 AM
kgarnett said
08:56 AM Mar 9, 2021
Hi Jaahn,
Jaahn wrote:
So the electrical standard says you should only plug one normal device into the inverter at a time.
I know and agree that this is good practice, but can you tell me which Standard states that you should only plug one normal (class 1) device into the inverter at a time.
Is it AS/NZS 4763:2011 - Safety of Portable Inverters or something else ?? I don't have a copy of this standard.
Ken
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:59 AM Mar 9, 2021
kgarnett wrote:
Hi Jaahn,
Jaahn wrote:
So the electrical standard says you should only plug one normal device into the inverter at a time.
I know and agree that this is good practice, but can you tell me which Standard states that you should only plug one normal (class 1) device into the inverter at a time.
Is it AS/NZS 4763:2011 - Safety of Portable Inverters or something else ?? I don't have a copy of this standard.
Ken
As far as I know there is nothing specific in the standard about that, but the standards don't tell you not to do lots of other things that are clearly dangerous either.
Cheers,
Peter
BarneyBDB said
08:59 PM Mar 9, 2021
When reading Standards, "shall not" and "should not" have greatly different meanings. Any reference to the standards needs to quote the actual wording, no interpretation.
finleygal said
12:26 PM Mar 13, 2021
Again, thank you all.
Jaahn, son-in-law had already suggested that as a solution, and as the inverter is under the couch, will be using a short extension cord for the few items I use, and in all seriousness, I could probably get away without using the inverter at all, a preference I am leaning towards.
It has been a big learning curve for me, and I appreciate the help and advice and time all of you have given.
Getting ready now to set off before the chilly southern winter starts.
No techie here and asking for some help but please help in Solar 101 language.
I have just put in three new AGM 105ah batteries. These are fed by 600w solar. I have a 1500w inverter.
Batteries are powering the fridge beautifully and all 12v lights are fine. However, when I switch the inverter on, the green light comes on for the inverter, I can hear it though it is very quiet, but I don't have 240v to the van lights/power points etc.
I tested the inverter with a small kitchen electrical appliance and appliance worked well.
There is no isolation switch.
What could possibly be the cause of no power through the inverter? I am hoping there is a simple answer to this problem.
I would really appreciate some advice.
With thanks .. Mandi
-- Edited by finleygal on Saturday 6th of March 2021 07:00:50 PM
The power/light circuit breaker has tripped. Try resetting it.
Sorry, just reread your post. You say the inverter works and the fridge and lights work. So the fridge is 12 volt?
You will not have supply to the power points unless they have been re-wired to the inverter, which is a no no.
Perhaps you need to give us more info re van type, Setec converter or what. Or get professional help.
You can run a power board with its own switchs , but yeah it doesn't run through your vans 240v system at all ......
Thank you all for your replies. I will try and cover the questions in one post.
The van is an older Galaxy by Spaceland, the manufacturers of this now make the Island Star range.
It is a Mishto 1500 sine wave inverter and seems to be hardwired into the van's power system. Has always worked until now lol!
Fridge is 12v/240v so was drawing power from the batteries only. I have tried the inverter with no mains power coming in and it doesn't work. Lights have been wired to work on 12 v with 240v through a switch (something to do with two pole or three pole - qualified electrician did that).
The fridge is new (less than 12 months) and was installed before I intended to go north last year. Also installed was a gas/electric hot water system with internal switches. Border closures put an end to that so I never tested the inverter till yesterday, in preparation to leave in a few weeks.
I have examined the circuit breaker and that has not tripped and mains power works through the van.
There doesn't appear to be a circuit breaker on on the inverter. The output socket has a plug connected and the cord disappears under the inverter. Without unscrewing the inverter from the floor, I don't know where it goes and not sure if should do that.
As a thought, could the wiring for the inverter to the van have been disconnected when the fridge and HWS was connected last year?
Think I am drowning not waving but again, thank you all for your replies. At kesa32 ... think I need professional help after all this ... lolol
Mandi
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 08:00:53 AM
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 08:01:15 AM
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 08:01:56 AM
Cheers
Hi Kesa
Marvellous what a few coffees will do to clarify the thinking! I am debating myself as to whether I even need the inverter. I only run a couple of 300-500 w appliances, when it is on, elect blanket if it is cold. I have a honda 2 kva genset if I really need power.
The amount of batteries and solar should enable me to free camp with genset as back-up with a charger if needed after some sunless days. I can always put on an extra blanket on the bed lol and chop the veg by hand and use manual beaters. And free camping doesn't require the use of hair straightener!!!!!
Will check the legality of wiring but at this stage, (hubby did it ... passing the blame here). I am leaning to just not using the inverter as it seems surplus to my requirements and what I have on the van.
Cheers .. Mandi
Can I please offer my abject apologies to all of you who tried to help me with this problem. My son-in-law (who is obviously used to his brain addled Mother in Law) called this morning to ask if I had connected the external power cord which takes the power from the inverter to the power inlet on the van. Doh!!!
I think a year away from travel and coping with 2020 fused my brain cells! I have just connected said power cord and all 240 v working!! So it is obviously not hardwired anywhere, but installed and connected properly.
I am soooooooo sorry that I asked for a solution when it was there all along. Thank you all for considering my problem and all the offered solutions and advice.
If ever we catch up, I will have cold beer or whiskey for all your help!
Very embarrassed Mandi!
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 10:35:31 AM
Final advice is to have it all tested by an electrical contractor to ensure it complies with the regulations. It is not just a matter of plugging a lead in from the inverter to the van inlet without having the appropriate safety gear installed.
Cheers, Chris.
Thanks Chris, for your reply but I probably didn't explain properly.
There is an outlet socket and and the normal 15 amp inlet socket on the outside of the van. The power outlet (which I presume connects somehow to the inverter through internal wiring) was installed by an electrician, so the power doesn't actually come directly from the inverter (which I probably described poorly in the above post). I have a short power cord that connects the two points. So if free camping, I just connect the outlet and inlet, and then when I want some 240v power, I switch on the inverter.
When in a park, I just connect the normal 15 amp cord to the inlet point.
Bit hard to explain but I hope this makes sense. I will, however, take your advice as this is an older van, and so will get a sparky to check everything out!
Cheers ... still very embarrassed Mandi
Thank you Aus Kiwi for good advice. When getting this all checked out by sparky, will see if he will put some switches in for me. I am a solo traveller, so need to know all is well and I can't (hopefully) stuff anything up!
Cheers .. Mandi
Having dissected that, I don't have a dual power scenario. I either have 240v mains/genset power with 15 amp cord, or 12v through the van with the batteries and the occasional 240v with inverter and small cord while free-camping. The inverter has a switch inside the van that I physically have to turn on to get 240v.
It has to be one or the other for my van. It is not possible with my set-up to have both power options at once. My failsafe is that I have to have one cord or the other.
That was what started this darn thread .. lolol!
But thank you for the explanation
Mandi
Cheers,
Peter
aarrrrghhhhhh ... technical question!! don't do them very well!!!!
I have a short cord which I can plug into a 10amp extension cord and the male is 15amp which goes into the van if ever I am stuck somewhere with only 10 amp power. So I use that small lead to connect the outlet from the inverter to the 15 amp inlet. It is orange and thick. I have a bigger orange thick extension cord that I use in caravan parks with 15 amp power. End of knowledge!
Clear as mud?
I am sorry .. I darn well don't know how all this works but it seems to have worked for me for the last 15 years so if it works, don't fix it?
Sorry I can't be more lucid ... this has been a black hole for me as hubby used to handle all of it, so this is a vertical learning curve.
Mandi
nope even got that wrong, the male goes into the inverter socket (external) and the female end is 15 amp and connects to the external van socket.
I think I have it right now!
A very befuddled Mandi!
-- Edited by finleygal on Sunday 7th of March 2021 07:46:31 PM
A couple of problems.
That short cord is home made and quite illegal, for lots of valid reasons.
Also you should know that if you plug your inverter into the van inlet as you are, the RCD safety switch will no longer work so there is a significant added risk of electrocution.
Your inverter is designed to be able to run just one devise and that is how it should be used safely.
Cheers,
Peter
What is an RCD safety switch?
I only ever run one device at a time.
Do I need to have the van rewired to give me a 15 amp outlet from the inverter?
I think I opened a Pandora's box!
Cheers .. Mandi
ampfibian.com.au/product/mini-15a-to-10a-power-adaptor/
Mandi
ampfibian.com.au/product/rv-plus-15a-caravan-power-adaptor/
Screed reads ... The Ampfibian RV-PLUS Power Adaptor is specifically designed for caravans/motor homes, allowing you to connect your 15A caravan to any domestic 10A power supply.
Mandi
That is the one you need for plugging the van into a 10A supply, but best not to use it for the inverter. Use the inverter directly, one thing at a time.
An RCD safety switch is to protect you (and other members of the family) if something in the 240V wiring goes wrong. There should be one in the van at the inlet box. You will also have them at home in the switch box.
Cheers,
Peter
A simple solution which I can manage. Will investigate and incorporate changes to the van where necessary.
Thank you to all who have helped me.
Cheers .. Mandi
Hi Mandi
Just to backup Peters comments. The electrical system in a caravan has safety features that rely on being plugged into the mains power. They protect you if there is a fault by the earth connection and the RCD in the fuse boxes. All good stuff for your health
When you have an inverter it does not have any of that backup safety like that. So the electrical standard says you should only plug one normal device into the inverter at a time. That works OK and if you need a short cord to get the power to a bench that is OK. You can then just plug in each item when you need it and should be OK. But running the vans whole system from it is not in the standard unless the system has been re-engineered. Also having several normal earthed items plugged in at the same time even when not switched on is also not allowed in the standard. There are technical reasons for this
all for your protection.
Jaahn
PS Note for the technical minded you can use double insulated items together but not normal earthed items.
-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 9th of March 2021 07:54:20 AM
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
I know and agree that this is good practice, but can you tell me which Standard states that you should only plug one normal (class 1) device into the inverter at a time.
Is it AS/NZS 4763:2011 - Safety of Portable Inverters or something else ?? I don't have a copy of this standard.
Ken
As far as I know there is nothing specific in the standard about that, but the standards don't tell you not to do lots of other things that are clearly dangerous either.
Cheers,
Peter
Jaahn, son-in-law had already suggested that as a solution, and as the inverter is under the couch, will be using a short extension cord for the few items I use, and in all seriousness, I could probably get away without using the inverter at all, a preference I am leaning towards.
It has been a big learning curve for me, and I appreciate the help and advice and time all of you have given.
Getting ready now to set off before the chilly southern winter starts.
Safe travel to all!
Mandi