I just thought I would post my limited experience with lithium batteries and solar panels etc.
Caravan is a 2016 so called "off road" model with a large compressor fridge.
Originally, I had the "standard" 2 x 120ah AGM batteries with 2 x 120W roof mounted solar panels.
A couple of years ago I changed the original PWM solar regulator to a Victron 100/30 bluetooth model, and added a 200W semi flexible solar panel to the roof.
This worked ok most of the time, but often I would need to get a portable 160W solar panel to help on some overcast days.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, over the 5 years I've had the van, I have needed to get my "back up" portables out more and more often.
Ok, time to get some new batteries, and maybe go lithium this time. Well I don't know how much research I did on this subject, but I know it was a lot!!
It come to the stage I was sick of looking at batteries day in day out, so I either had to make up my mind soon, or go down the AGM path again...
Anyway, I ended up getting 2 X 100AH Voltax LifPo4 Plus batteries from eBay, and then proceeded to fit them to find out if I had blown my $1145!
All went well with the fitting, and they are certainly a LOT lighter than the originals!
After fitting, I moved the van out of the carport to see what they could do, and was impressed so far.
Now I am staying at Walker Flat SA to give them a REAL test, and things are looking very good. I haven't had to get the extra panels out. Mind you, the weather has been excellent with probably only one overcast day so far.
I have put a couple of pics up, and some info from the victron to show how things are going.
I have no affiliation with Voltax or Victron, these are just my observations, and to try and give an insight on what you can expect with minimal outlay. I know it's early days yet, and I will update every 6 months or so.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
-- Edited by woofta and precious on Friday 5th of March 2021 02:01:31 PM
Is that an open box on the caravan, wont they get knocked off from there. I would have some sort of locking feature, or enclose them in some way to stop it from happening. Because lithiums are expensive, and some ratbag, is going to have ago at knocking them off mate, I am sure. Another issue, those wires hanging down, if you do some bush work, those wires are sure to get ripped off. Other than that lithiums are what I am going to get for my camper.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 5th of March 2021 03:29:14 PM
Tony LEE said
05:06 PM Mar 5, 2021
Where did you say you were parked?
woofta and precious said
05:21 PM Mar 5, 2021
Sorry, bicycle camper, I took those 2 photos at the time I installed them.
I had the door off the battery compartment with a few wires that I hadn't connected up yet.
The door is normally locked up with a large padlock.
woofta and precious said
05:24 PM Mar 5, 2021
Tony LEE, I am to the left of the boat ramp as you drive in, and first caravan
STRETCH ARMSTRONG said
05:36 PM Mar 5, 2021
Hi woofta and precious, l hope you get a good run out of them. It will be intresting to hear your future thoughts on them.
dorian said
06:50 PM Mar 5, 2021
Are we to understand that you have 440W in 3 panels on your roof (2 x 120W + 1 x 200W), and that these are producing around 250W on a sunny day?
Tony LEE said
07:34 PM Mar 5, 2021
Couple of the panels might be subject to shading
woofta and precious said
02:53 PM Mar 6, 2021
Hi Dorian,
Yes, good pick up on the max. watt output.
The way we are camped up here at Walker Flat has something to do with that, as we are facing north to the river (looking out from awning). There is also a line of trees running along the river, which I have tried stay out from as much as possible, but turns out it partly covers the 2 panels on the door side of the van.
As it turns out, I still get enough to get into float most days, and when I don't, it doesn't seem to matter too much.
Whenarewethere said
09:03 AM Mar 16, 2021
Voltax vs Victron 100ah
9.5kg
330.3 x 173.4 x 215.6mm = 12.348 litres
0.769 kg/litre
Standard charge 40 amps
Maximum charge 100 amps
Discharge 100 amps
15kg
321 x 197 x 152mm = 9.612 litres
1.56 kg/litre
Standard charge 50 amps
Maximum charge 200 amps
Discharge recommend 100 amps
Discharge max continuous 200 amps
It would be interesting to open a Voltax & see what's inside.
I suppose if you were boating at least the battery would float!
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Tuesday 16th of March 2021 09:07:57 AM
Tony LEE said
10:06 AM Mar 16, 2021
Just for another comparison, Battleborn are pretty much the Gold standard drop-ins in the USA
Similar currents to the Victron
Weight 31 lbs/ 14kg
Dimensions 12.76 × 6.86 × 8.95 in
Price, about 900 US$
Whenarewethere said
01:37 PM Mar 16, 2021
Personally I would not touch this stuff with 2 barge poles in series!
If I did get one I would start by drilling a hole in the top at the corner & spy inside. Obviously something that can be plugged.
My personal believe is that there is a smaller battery in a larger outer case.
I am more than happy to be proved wrong.
Tony LEE said
02:37 PM Mar 16, 2021
Battleborn have been pulled apart many times in glorious HD so not much scope for hiding space stuffed with old newspapers, but did see a photo of one that was a fancy case with a half-sized battery inside.
Also recently saw an MCB opened up that had none of the usual magnetic/thermal trip mechanism inside, just a simple on-off mechanism. Quite clever really but you would wonder if it was worth the trouble.
Bit more profit in fake lithiums of course
Tony Bev said
03:03 PM Mar 16, 2021
Thanks for putting that up, woofta and precious
Although it will (hopefully), be a few more years, before I will need to change my AGM batteries
It is always good to know what is out there, and more important, what works and what does not work
The Travelling Dillberries said
04:07 PM Mar 16, 2021
Tony LEE wrote:
Just for another comparison, Battleborn are pretty much the Gold standard drop-ins in the USA Similar currents to the Victron Weight 31 lbs/ 14kg Dimensions 12.76 × 6.86 × 8.95 in Price, about 900 US$
Thanks Tony, interesting reading, especially the 10year warranty. No Aussies producing their outstanding batteries who offer this. No confidence in their own product.
Tony LEE said
05:19 AM Mar 17, 2021
Thing is all (???) lithium cells are made in China including those inside Battleborn batteries so if they can offer 10 year warranty then surely 5 years wouldn't be too much of a stretch if they are crowing about 3000+ full cycle life
It is interesting watching the pissing contests unfold on the US Facebook groups where solar arrays around 2kW are just barely noteworthy and the size of the batteries bigger and bigger. One yesterday had 18 x 100Ah Battleborn batteries
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Wednesday 17th of March 2021 05:23:44 AM
Whenarewethere said
06:29 AM Mar 17, 2021
The problem in the US is that people are being charged wholesale prices plus a margin.
If there is a network issue supply issue prices go through the roof. You need to go to your switchboard & disconnect or you will end up with spot pricing of thousands of dollars per kWh.
So it is better to be self sufficient.
Years ago we were constantly having blackouts. I was working from home & doing 3D rendering where the 6 computers had to run 24/365. If there was a blackout I had to start again.
I spent $5k on a UPS & additional battery backup, This is Manly in Sydney, not the outback! It saved my backside quite a few times.
Looking back, even $20k on extra batteries would have been more peace of mind.
Tony LEE said
09:36 AM Mar 18, 2021
I was referring to motorhomes with the monstrous solar systems in the US
Pretty sure there are australian companies offering wholesale plans for domestic supplies. Seems a good idea until the system falls in a heap and spot pricing is passed on as happened to a few people in Texas recently.
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Thursday 18th of March 2021 09:38:59 AM
Whenarewethere said
10:09 AM Mar 18, 2021
Our setup is basically for the fridge, at 15ah per 24 hour technically it will run the fridge for 7 days. We never stay put that long so the car will charge the batteries.
You need to work out how long you stay put & an inclement weather safety margin that you are comfortable with.
After that use the car or a generator to charge the batteries.
dorian said
04:18 PM Mar 18, 2021
Whenarewethere wrote:
It would be interesting to open a Voltax & see what's inside.
Good catch. The 100Ah Voltax weighs the same as a 60Ah Victron.
I would measure the dimensions of the panels and do some calculations there as well.
Tony LEE said
05:13 PM Mar 18, 2021
"I would measure the dimensions of the panels and do some calculations there as well."
*
*
We know there is a "problem" with panels because of the way they are rated by zapping them with a very brief burst of light and measuring the output before the semiconductor heats up. And battery manufacturers cheat by giving capacity at the 100 hour rate instead of the standard.
But no different to engine manufacturers who measure power output on a totally bare engine and then brag about it
Or fishermen, or drivers who get amazing fuel consumption
Whenarewethere said
01:48 PM Mar 19, 2021
dorian wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
It would be interesting to open a Voltax & see what's inside.
Good catch. The 100Ah Voltax weighs the same as a 60Ah Victron.
'The next generation of power storage is here! These LiFePO4 batteries weigh less than half of their Lead Acid counterparts. They may look fairly similar to lead acid batteries, but internally they're a totally different, next generation concept. They're actually made up of regular 26650 LiFePO4 cells, which are in mass production for many portable devices. An internal battery management system (BMS) ensures all cells are uniformly charged and discharged, as well as providing short circuit, over current, and reverse polarity protection. This provides you with a higher degree of protection than a traditional lead acid battery which is unprotected, and can discharge rapidly under short circuit conditions, causing fire and damage. The internal BMS will also limit discharge and manage cut-off voltage, to further protect the internal cells.'
Hi all,
I just thought I would post my limited experience with lithium batteries and solar panels etc.
Caravan is a 2016 so called "off road" model with a large compressor fridge.
Originally, I had the "standard" 2 x 120ah AGM batteries with 2 x 120W roof mounted solar panels.
A couple of years ago I changed the original PWM solar regulator to a Victron 100/30 bluetooth model, and added a 200W semi flexible solar panel to the roof.
This worked ok most of the time, but often I would need to get a portable 160W solar panel to help on some overcast days.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, over the 5 years I've had the van, I have needed to get my "back up" portables out more and more often.
Ok, time to get some new batteries, and maybe go lithium this time. Well I don't know how much research I did on this subject, but I know it was a lot!!
It come to the stage I was sick of looking at batteries day in day out, so I either had to make up my mind soon, or go down the AGM path again...
Anyway, I ended up getting 2 X 100AH Voltax LifPo4 Plus batteries from eBay, and then proceeded to fit them to find out if I had blown my $1145!
All went well with the fitting, and they are certainly a LOT lighter than the originals!
After fitting, I moved the van out of the carport to see what they could do, and was impressed so far.
Now I am staying at Walker Flat SA to give them a REAL test, and things are looking very good. I haven't had to get the extra panels out. Mind you, the weather has been excellent with probably only one overcast day so far.
I have put a couple of pics up, and some info from the victron to show how things are going.
I have no affiliation with Voltax or Victron, these are just my observations, and to try and give an insight on what you can expect with minimal outlay. I know it's early days yet, and I will update every 6 months or so.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
-- Edited by woofta and precious on Friday 5th of March 2021 02:01:31 PM
Is that an open box on the caravan, wont they get knocked off from there. I would have some sort of locking feature, or enclose them in some way to stop it from happening. Because lithiums are expensive, and some ratbag, is going to have ago at knocking them off mate, I am sure. Another issue, those wires hanging down, if you do some bush work, those wires are sure to get ripped off. Other than that lithiums are what I am going to get for my camper.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 5th of March 2021 03:29:14 PM
Sorry, bicycle camper, I took those 2 photos at the time I installed them.
I had the door off the battery compartment with a few wires that I hadn't connected up yet.
The door is normally locked up with a large padlock.
Tony LEE, I am to the left of the boat ramp as you drive in, and first caravan
Hi Dorian,
Yes, good pick up on the max. watt output.
The way we are camped up here at Walker Flat has something to do with that, as we are facing north to the river (looking out from awning). There is also a line of trees running along the river, which I have tried stay out from as much as possible, but turns out it partly covers the 2 panels on the door side of the van.
As it turns out, I still get enough to get into float most days, and when I don't, it doesn't seem to matter too much.
Voltax vs Victron 100ah
9.5kg
330.3 x 173.4 x 215.6mm = 12.348 litres
0.769 kg/litre
Standard charge 40 amps
Maximum charge 100 amps
Discharge 100 amps
15kg
321 x 197 x 152mm = 9.612 litres
1.56 kg/litre
Standard charge 50 amps
Maximum charge 200 amps
Discharge recommend 100 amps
Discharge max continuous 200 amps
It would be interesting to open a Voltax & see what's inside.
I suppose if you were boating at least the battery would float!
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Tuesday 16th of March 2021 09:07:57 AM
Personally I would not touch this stuff with 2 barge poles in series!
If I did get one I would start by drilling a hole in the top at the corner & spy inside. Obviously something that can be plugged.
My personal believe is that there is a smaller battery in a larger outer case.
I am more than happy to be proved wrong.
Although it will (hopefully), be a few more years, before I will need to change my AGM batteries
It is always good to know what is out there, and more important, what works and what does not work
Thanks Tony, interesting reading, especially the 10year warranty. No Aussies producing their outstanding batteries who offer this. No confidence in their own product.
Thing is all (???) lithium cells are made in China including those inside Battleborn batteries so if they can offer 10 year warranty then surely 5 years wouldn't be too much of a stretch if they are crowing about 3000+ full cycle life
It is interesting watching the pissing contests unfold on the US Facebook groups where solar arrays around 2kW are just barely noteworthy and the size of the batteries bigger and bigger. One yesterday had 18 x 100Ah Battleborn batteries
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Wednesday 17th of March 2021 05:23:44 AM
The problem in the US is that people are being charged wholesale prices plus a margin.
If there is a network issue supply issue prices go through the roof. You need to go to your switchboard & disconnect or you will end up with spot pricing of thousands of dollars per kWh.
So it is better to be self sufficient.
Years ago we were constantly having blackouts. I was working from home & doing 3D rendering where the 6 computers had to run 24/365. If there was a blackout I had to start again.
I spent $5k on a UPS & additional battery backup, This is Manly in Sydney, not the outback! It saved my backside quite a few times.
Looking back, even $20k on extra batteries would have been more peace of mind.
I was referring to motorhomes with the monstrous solar systems in the US
Pretty sure there are australian companies offering wholesale plans for domestic supplies. Seems a good idea until the system falls in a heap and spot pricing is passed on as happened to a few people in Texas recently.
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Thursday 18th of March 2021 09:38:59 AM
Our setup is basically for the fridge, at 15ah per 24 hour technically it will run the fridge for 7 days. We never stay put that long so the car will charge the batteries.
You need to work out how long you stay put & an inclement weather safety margin that you are comfortable with.
After that use the car or a generator to charge the batteries.
Good catch. The 100Ah Voltax weighs the same as a 60Ah Victron.
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-12,8V-&-25,6-Lithium-SuperPack-EN.pdf
I would measure the dimensions of the panels and do some calculations there as well.
This might give some insight into what's inside.
https://www.lithiumbatterypower.com/blogs/news/do-you-know-what-s-inside-of-that-lithium-battery
Inside a Victron:
A teardown of lithium battery.
https://youtu.be/-gH_ZRqHYtk
Powertech battery
https://cometbattery.com.au/shop/commercial-batteries/lithium-deep-cycle-battery-12-8v-100ah/
'The next generation of power storage is here! These LiFePO4 batteries weigh less than half of their Lead Acid counterparts. They may look fairly similar to lead acid batteries, but internally they're a totally different, next generation concept. They're actually made up of regular 26650 LiFePO4 cells, which are in mass production for many portable devices. An internal battery management system (BMS) ensures all cells are uniformly charged and discharged, as well as providing short circuit, over current, and reverse polarity protection. This provides you with a higher degree of protection than a traditional lead acid battery which is unprotected, and can discharge rapidly under short circuit conditions, causing fire and damage. The internal BMS will also limit discharge and manage cut-off voltage, to further protect the internal cells.'
Another teardown.
https://youtu.be/WjPCo7fT0Tw