Should Australia stand up to Google a suffer the consequences?
At first I thought they should be thrown out of the sand pit. With their bucket and spade. But I never considered the possible consequences. Should we be worried or is it all bluff?
Tony LEE said
09:38 AM Jan 25, 2021
Several other search engines, a couple of which won't bombard you with "relevant" adverts every time you do a search.
Businesses will suffer a bit because of lack of sponsored adverts.
Nothing we can do will influence the outcome. I stopped buying daily papers many years ago and that is what has led to this situation. I stopped buying print books many years ago too. Get used to it and adapt
bgt said
10:20 AM Jan 25, 2021
Tony the issue I hadn't considered is Google's ownership of Android and all the navigation systems using Google maps.
dorian said
11:14 AM Jan 25, 2021
ISTM that Google should ask all those companies who wish to be paid by Google for using their content, to inform Google so that they can be excluded from their search results. Problem solved.
ISTR that the last time our government tried to control the Internet and IT, they made idiots of themselves. In fact, what did happen to the legislation that required encryption vendors to incorporate backdoors into their products?
Mike Harding said
12:16 PM Jan 25, 2021
bgt wrote:
Tony the issue I hadn't considered is Google's ownership of Android and all the navigation systems using Google maps.
I don't think Google does own Android?
Android is largely based upon Linux which is an open source product under the GNU licence (or a variation thereof) and Google is obliged to release all source code pertaining to Android. NB. This is fairly deep legal stuff and I could be wrong in detail but I'm pretty sure my premise is correct.
However Google certainly does own Google Maps but that is not a big problem, simply switch to Open Street Maps which have the massive advantage of not need an on-going internet connection and downloaded data does not expire and suddenly disappear from your device! This is an excellent navigation programme using OSM:
I will be perfectly happy to see Google exit Australia and we can then be free of their underhand and invasive data harvesting and data matching and if Facebook go too I'll be cheering in the street with joy.
When we travel we take paper maps with us. Also have a Garmin GPS, but prefer physical maps.
Each State in Australia have their own maps & better aerial photos than google. I often look at sixmaps for NSW.
I bought 1 of these maps for Sydney. It still works for most areas which we need!
A few years ago in Morton NP we were comparing 1:25,000 scale topographical map with another walker & our 30 year old map was more accurate on our walk.
We also travelled around Europe for 4 months without a phone, GPS or computer. It's not a problem.
I use DuckDuckGo, Bing and Google for my search engines. When the first two don't deliver, Google nearly always comes to the rescue. As much as I hate their monopolistic attitude and intrusive practices, and their tax avoidance, I'm going to miss their search engine.
In fact I have already tweaked my browsers to rid myself of various Google annoyances (eg redirections, tracking), so Google's intrusiveness is manageable. If you use Microsoft Edge, it automatically filters out Google's redirections (but introduces annoyances of its own).
As for social media, what's that and who needs it?
bgt said
12:35 PM Jan 25, 2021
Mike you know I believe everything I read on the internet !!! Here's what the above link says. "There are also questions about what the exit could mean, if anything, for Android users (Google purchased Android Inc. in 2005)".
I will also hold a party, wake, if Facebook and Twitter went with Google. The thing is that we all dismissed George Orwell's Big Bother. But he was right. We are there. And how do we get out of it?
Every politician and media reporter now scans social media for news. We know the loonies live by social media so that what influences the media and politicians.
I think I dust off my paper maps and find my boy scouts compass.
Mike Harding said
01:05 PM Jan 25, 2021
Dorian: >Google nearly always comes to the rescue.
I agree that Google's search is the best but I am prepared to forego that extra 10% in order not to be data matched and the others will improve their algorithms in due course. It's just not that important to me.
----
bgt: >(Google purchased Android Inc. in 2005)".
I don't know who Android Inc was but I'll guess it was a small company developing an operating system for mobile phones - probably a tech. start-up.
It matters not. Android *is* based upon Linux therefore all Android code *must* be released into the public domain - indeed I am currently running an Android variant on a laptop computer, nothing to do with Google:
In my opinion it's all bluff anyway. Multinationals are only *ever* interested in *one* thing... profit! And I'll bet they can still see a dollar to be made in Oz despite the proposed laws. They are simply trying to grasp every single cent they think they can get away with. Parasites.
Tony LEE said
02:47 PM Jan 25, 2021
"Tony the issue I hadn't considered is Google's ownership of Android and all the navigation systems using Google maps."
Most navigators - osmand, Sygic, mapsme etc etc use open Street maps so Google can go jump.
I used OSM maps on a Garmin navigator and on my google pixel phone all over N and s America, Australia and Greater Europe and it has the same sort of millions of poi that google maps has and they are offline by default.
Actually google has already destroyed a few Android apps that I used to use by raising their access prices for maps data to astronomical levels so not a bat idea to cultivate alternatives anyway. A few of those apps did manage to survive by swapping to other map suppliers or Open Street Maps
BTW google have already won the bluff with a couple of countries - Spain being one
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 25th of January 2021 02:52:14 PM
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 25th of January 2021 02:55:28 PM
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 25th of January 2021 02:57:23 PM
Tony LEE said
03:05 PM Jan 25, 2021
As for blithely suggesting that Google can go jump - I for one am actually quite happy for Google to stalk me in return for providing free -
GMAIL - almost spam free and full of features Photos - free storage for my 100,000 photos Calendar - way better memory than me Pay - if I have my phone, I'm not broke Translate - fantastic app Google fi - worldwide roaming phone service Drive - cloud storage
And that is half of them All free - because I place no value on the info google has about me
Same deal for facebook/youtube/whatsapp
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 25th of January 2021 03:07:21 PM
Greystone said
06:00 PM Jan 25, 2021
Subscribe to a VPN service and connect to a server in the US.
Mike Harding said
08:31 PM Jan 25, 2021
Greystone wrote:
Subscribe to a VPN service and connect to a server in the US.
That won't do you any good.
If Google pulls out of Oz they won't capture or supply Oz data except in the most general terms for overseas travellers perhaps.
bgt said
08:53 AM Jan 26, 2021
I've been playing with DuckDuckGo. Seems ok. Anyone else used DuckDuckGo?
Santa said
09:49 AM Jan 26, 2021
bgt wrote:
I've been playing with DuckDuckGo. Seems ok. Anyone else used DuckDuckGo?
Yep, works fine, been using it for years, Google is way too intrusive for my liking.
Of course Youtube is also owned by Google, they track every thing you do, view a video and your immediately bombarded with suggestions for similar clips, they are also keen for you to stay logged on, to the point that if you log out a short time later they automatically log you on again.
when I was using Google I notice a search was promptly followed by related clips on Youtube, now that I use DDG it never happens.
oldbloke said
07:32 AM Jan 27, 2021
bgt wrote:
I've been playing with DuckDuckGo. Seems ok. Anyone else used DuckDuckGo?
Same here. Faster than Chrome. And I've been blaming my new mobile for being slow.
dorian said
08:03 AM Jan 27, 2021
oldbloke wrote:
bgt wrote:
I've been playing with DuckDuckGo. Seems ok. Anyone else used DuckDuckGo?
Same here. Faster than Chrome. And I've been blaming my new mobile for being slow.
That makes no sense. DuckDuckGo is a search engine, Chrome is a browser.
Mike Harding said
08:08 AM Jan 27, 2021
dorian wrote:
That makes no sense. DuckDuckGo is a search engine, Chrome is a browser.
There is a DuckDuckGo privacy browser available for Android (maybe others?) - it is quite good but still needs work, which is on-going.
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:21 AM Jan 27, 2021
I've used duckduckgo for 17 years for privacy reasons. Some people don't trust it because it's based on Bing but it doesn't track users and I've never been bombarded with ads. There's also Qwant but I find it very slow. There are others.
I also use OSMAnd for navigation. It's address searching is not as good as Google but it's navigation is very good.
I use NewPipe for viewing YouTube videos. It's very good and again, no tracking and no ads.
I use the F-droid repository to access open source apps. Some very good ones for calendar, contacts, photo gallery, email, non - tracking browsers, VPNs, etcetera. If there's an app I like on Google Play Store, I use AuroraStore to anonymously access it. Again, for privacy reasons.
Even though I feel I have nothing to hide I still use Orbot VPN for privacy reasons and the principle that if big data companies like Google, Facebook, Microsoft,, Amazon and Apple, make so much money from that data then they can pay me $20 million for it. Until then, I won't use any of them.
Mike, you are right with your post except Google does own Android but there is the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) which many coders use to develop open source custom Android operating system. I use the LineageOS version on my smart phone. I don't use any Google software other than AOSP for privacy reasons.
I'm very happy for Australia to stand up to Google, Facebook and any multinational companies that think they can bully us to do whatever they like.
Please, please, please Google, go away or pay up, but don't bully us. You've already made billions of dollars from users' data.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Wednesday 27th of January 2021 10:30:23 AM
Mike Harding said
03:24 PM Jan 27, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:Mike, you are right with your post except Google does own Android
I have used Google for years now. I have a Gmail email and use Google Calendar like a diary. I would lose everything I use on a daily basis. I can access both and add entries or delete or change them on my HP Laptop with windows 10 and iPhone X.
All bills etc are done by email too so would lose that capability.
What are others using for Email and Calendar that can be accessed the same way??
Whenarewethere said
04:52 PM Jan 27, 2021
We both still use physical diaries. Paid the last electricity bill with a cheque, also use them for nieces & nephews birthday presents, they can't spend the money straight away! Don't use cloud backup.
I like the 3 dimensional space of physical items that allows you to view many different things at the same time. Even though I have two 30 inch screens.
Craig1 said
05:48 PM Jan 27, 2021
In today's Herald Sun, Terry Mcrann writes there is a lot of censorship by Google and part is directly related to their vast Chinese market that they don't want to upset.
oldbloke said
12:16 AM Jan 28, 2021
Dougwe wrote:
I have used Google for years now. I have a Gmail email and use Google Calendar like a diary. I would lose everything I use on a daily basis. I can access both and add entries or delete or change them on my HP Laptop with windows 10 and iPhone X.
All bills etc are done by email too so would lose that capability.
What are others using for Email and Calendar that can be accessed the same way??
Same here, used Gmail, google and calendar for years.
But.
I've been using duckduckgo app on mobile for 2 days. At this point I give it a big tick. No ad's. But also much faster than Chrome, which has been a real pain for me. Has caused me a lot of pain, time and frustration. I have been blaming the mobile and telstra. But it was Chrome....bastards.
P.S. laptop is faster too.
Keep in mind its only the search engine they are threatening to remove.
Dougwe said
06:25 AM Jan 28, 2021
I spose I could live without the search engine Neil as I really only play with it cos I can.
I wonder if it will effect Google Maps? I use that on my phone as my navigation system. I gave up on Navlady and Garmin as they both lead me up the yellow brick road a few times and don't seem to have that problem with Google Maps.
Keep Safe out there Mate.
bgt said
08:53 AM Jan 28, 2021
You can still access your Gmail via any search engine. I have 3 devices. All different with different browsers and search engines. All get my Gmail.
dorian said
09:06 AM Jan 28, 2021
You can access GMail with an email client, eg ThunderBird.
Buzz Lightbulb said
01:24 PM Jan 28, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
I've used duckduckgo for 17 years
You have done well considering it was launched in 2008:
That's funny. I thought I'd started using it when my son was in primary and now he's 18. Oh yeah. I seem to have forgotten how to subtract. It must have been a 'seniors moment'.
I won't try to calculate it again, but let's say, for years and year.
Read this and see what you think.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-25/google-may-pull-search-engine-from-australia-what-happens-next/13086712
Should Australia stand up to Google a suffer the consequences?
At first I thought they should be thrown out of the sand pit. With their bucket and spade. But I never considered the possible consequences. Should we be worried or is it all bluff?
ISTR that the last time our government tried to control the Internet and IT, they made idiots of themselves. In fact, what did happen to the legislation that required encryption vendors to incorporate backdoors into their products?
I don't think Google does own Android?
Android is largely based upon Linux which is an open source product under the GNU licence (or a variation thereof) and Google is obliged to release all source code pertaining to Android. NB. This is fairly deep legal stuff and I could be wrong in detail but I'm pretty sure my premise is correct.
However Google certainly does own Google Maps but that is not a big problem, simply switch to Open Street Maps which have the massive advantage of not need an on-going internet connection and downloaded data does not expire and suddenly disappear from your device! This is an excellent navigation programme using OSM:
OsmAnd
I will be perfectly happy to see Google exit Australia and we can then be free of their underhand and invasive data harvesting and data matching and if Facebook go too I'll be cheering in the street with joy.
And if you seek another search engine:
DuckDuckGo
When we travel we take paper maps with us. Also have a Garmin GPS, but prefer physical maps.
Each State in Australia have their own maps & better aerial photos than google. I often look at sixmaps for NSW.
I bought 1 of these maps for Sydney. It still works for most areas which we need!
A few years ago in Morton NP we were comparing 1:25,000 scale topographical map with another walker & our 30 year old map was more accurate on our walk.
We also travelled around Europe for 4 months without a phone, GPS or computer. It's not a problem.
We will cope, it's not the end of the world!
In fact I have already tweaked my browsers to rid myself of various Google annoyances (eg redirections, tracking), so Google's intrusiveness is manageable. If you use Microsoft Edge, it automatically filters out Google's redirections (but introduces annoyances of its own).
As for social media, what's that and who needs it?
I will also hold a party, wake, if Facebook and Twitter went with Google. The thing is that we all dismissed George Orwell's Big Bother. But he was right. We are there. And how do we get out of it?
Every politician and media reporter now scans social media for news. We know the loonies live by social media so that what influences the media and politicians.
I think I dust off my paper maps and find my boy scouts compass.
Dorian: >Google nearly always comes to the rescue.
I agree that Google's search is the best but I am prepared to forego that extra 10% in order not to be data matched and the others will improve their algorithms in due course. It's just not that important to me.
----
bgt: >(Google purchased Android Inc. in 2005)".
I don't know who Android Inc was but I'll guess it was a small company developing an operating system for mobile phones - probably a tech. start-up.
It matters not. Android *is* based upon Linux therefore all Android code *must* be released into the public domain - indeed I am currently running an Android variant on a laptop computer, nothing to do with Google:
AndroidOpenSource
In my opinion it's all bluff anyway. Multinationals are only *ever* interested in *one* thing... profit! And I'll bet they can still see a dollar to be made in Oz despite the proposed laws. They are simply trying to grasp every single cent they think they can get away with. Parasites.
"Tony the issue I hadn't considered is Google's ownership of Android and all the navigation systems using Google maps."
Most navigators - osmand, Sygic, mapsme etc etc use open Street maps so Google can go jump.
I used OSM maps on a Garmin navigator and on my google pixel phone all over N and s America, Australia and Greater Europe and it has the same sort of millions of poi that google maps has and they are offline by default.
Actually google has already destroyed a few Android apps that I used to use by raising their access prices for maps data to astronomical levels so not a bat idea to cultivate alternatives anyway. A few of those apps did manage to survive by swapping to other map suppliers or Open Street Maps
BTW google have already won the bluff with a couple of countries - Spain being one
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 25th of January 2021 02:52:14 PM
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 25th of January 2021 02:55:28 PM
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 25th of January 2021 02:57:23 PM
As for blithely suggesting that Google can go jump - I for one am actually quite happy for Google to stalk me in return for providing free -
GMAIL - almost spam free and full of features
Photos - free storage for my 100,000 photos
Calendar - way better memory than me
Pay - if I have my phone, I'm not broke
Translate - fantastic app
Google fi - worldwide roaming phone service
Drive - cloud storage
And that is half of them
All free - because I place no value on the info google has about me
Same deal for facebook/youtube/whatsapp
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 25th of January 2021 03:07:21 PM
That won't do you any good.
If Google pulls out of Oz they won't capture or supply Oz data except in the most general terms for overseas travellers perhaps.
Yep, works fine, been using it for years, Google is way too intrusive for my liking.
Of course Youtube is also owned by Google, they track every thing you do, view a video and your immediately bombarded with suggestions for similar clips, they are also keen for you to stay logged on, to the point that if you log out a short time later they automatically log you on again.
when I was using Google I notice a search was promptly followed by related clips on Youtube, now that I use DDG it never happens.
Same here. Faster than Chrome. And I've been blaming my new mobile for being slow.
That makes no sense. DuckDuckGo is a search engine, Chrome is a browser.
There is a DuckDuckGo privacy browser available for Android (maybe others?) - it is quite good but still needs work, which is on-going.
I've used duckduckgo for 17 years for privacy reasons. Some people don't trust it because it's based on Bing but it doesn't track users and I've never been bombarded with ads. There's also Qwant but I find it very slow. There are others.
I also use OSMAnd for navigation. It's address searching is not as good as Google but it's navigation is very good.
I use NewPipe for viewing YouTube videos. It's very good and again, no tracking and no ads.
I use the F-droid repository to access open source apps. Some very good ones for calendar, contacts, photo gallery, email, non - tracking browsers, VPNs, etcetera. If there's an app I like on Google Play Store, I use AuroraStore to anonymously access it. Again, for privacy reasons.
Even though I feel I have nothing to hide I still use Orbot VPN for privacy reasons and the principle that if big data companies like Google, Facebook, Microsoft,, Amazon and Apple, make so much money from that data then they can pay me $20 million for it. Until then, I won't use any of them.
Mike, you are right with your post except Google does own Android but there is the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) which many coders use to develop open source custom Android operating system. I use the LineageOS version on my smart phone. I don't use any Google software other than AOSP for privacy reasons.
I'm very happy for Australia to stand up to Google, Facebook and any multinational companies that think they can bully us to do whatever they like.
Please, please, please Google, go away or pay up, but don't bully us. You've already made billions of dollars from users' data.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Wednesday 27th of January 2021 10:30:23 AM
I don't think so:
Link1
Link2
You should make a distinction between the operating system and significant Google owned application which run under it ie. Chrome, Play Store etc.
You have done well considering it was launched in 2008:
Wikipedia
All bills etc are done by email too so would lose that capability.
What are others using for Email and Calendar that can be accessed the same way??
We both still use physical diaries. Paid the last electricity bill with a cheque, also use them for nieces & nephews birthday presents, they can't spend the money straight away! Don't use cloud backup.
I like the 3 dimensional space of physical items that allows you to view many different things at the same time. Even though I have two 30 inch screens.
Same here, used Gmail, google and calendar for years.
But.
I've been using duckduckgo app on mobile for 2 days. At this point I give it a big tick.
No ad's. But also much faster than Chrome, which has been a real pain for me. Has caused me a lot of pain, time and frustration. I have been blaming the mobile and telstra. But it was Chrome....bastards.
P.S. laptop is faster too.
Keep in mind its only the search engine they are threatening to remove.
I wonder if it will effect Google Maps? I use that on my phone as my navigation system. I gave up on Navlady and Garmin as they both lead me up the yellow brick road a few times and don't seem to have that problem with Google Maps.
Keep Safe out there Mate.
That's funny. I thought I'd started using it when my son was in primary and now he's 18. Oh yeah. I seem to have forgotten how to subtract. It must have been a 'seniors moment'.
I won't try to calculate it again, but let's say, for years and year.