Yesterday we were travelling along the Bruce Highway inb Nth Qld where I noticed a Toyota Troopie towing a Newlands dual axle caravan about 20 footer.
What caught my attention the troopie appeared to level, but the caravan was very pronounced being as being very tail down compared to the front, it looked like being about 6-9 inches varaiation.
This kind variation is not unusual seeing many tinnies and small trailers towed behind 4WD's, but seeing a caravan being towed with that attitude made me wonder when being towed like that it would have almost zero ball weight. What would the effects of a zero ball weight
Possum3 said
04:48 PM Oct 30, 2020
Possibly tow with a tendency to yaw if light weight on ball - If ball weight was actually negative a disaster waiting to happen. Check Caravan Council of Australia website for technical information www.caravancouncil.com.au/
outlaw40 said
05:41 PM Oct 30, 2020
The main effect of zero ball weight would be the frequent requirement to stop to facilitate a change of underwear .
Whenarewethere said
06:51 PM Oct 30, 2020
So the owner can reach the bikes, water Jerry cans, fuel Jerry cans, spare wheels by stepping up on the toolbox & jumping on the lid to close the full box!
Greg 1 said
07:09 PM Oct 30, 2020
Can be deceptive. If you look at my rig it looks like it is slightly tail down but it is an optical illusion. The chassis is actually slightly nose down with a ball weight of 300kg. I am not sure what gives it that appearance, whether it be the stripes or the way the body is set. I have scratch my head about it ever since I first bought the van.
Tows really well though.
KFT said
07:38 PM Oct 30, 2020
G'day, The thing is it could have an acceptable ball weight but you should appreciate that troopies have truck suspension under them that is quite stiff giving the illusion there is no weight on the ball.
KFT
yobarr said
08:11 PM Oct 30, 2020
Gundog wrote:
Yesterday we were travelling along the Bruce Highway inb Nth Qld where I noticed a Toyota Troopie towing a Newlands dual axle caravan about 20 footer.
What caught my attention the troopie appeared to level, but the caravan was very pronounced being as being very tail down compared to the front, it looked like being about 6-9 inches varaiation.
This kind variation is not unusual seeing many tinnies and small trailers towed behind 4WD's, but seeing a caravan being towed with that attitude made me wonder when being towed like that it would have almost zero ball weight. What would the effects of a zero ball weight
Hi Graham...the fact that the front of the van is 6-9" higher than the tail means little.It may be that the troopie's towbar was way higher than the van's drawbar,and that the van's drawbar had to be lifted to the car's towbar to connect the van to the car? Unless the van had load-sharing suspension,raising the front would actually take weight off the lead axle,and thus increase towball weight.My towball is well above the ground.....I cannot measure it now because it is raining heavily here...but I simply played around with the drawbar to get the van level.Raising the drawbar on a van with non-loadsharing suspension actually increases towball weight,and although it may look stupid,and possibly cause instability because of extra wind currents under the van,I very much doubt that van's towball weight would be of any concern.Cheers
Then we have the other extreme!
P.SStopped raining now.....from ground to top of towbar shank is 630mm.
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 31st of October 2020 08:59:32 AM
G'day, The thing is it could have an acceptable ball weight but you should appreciate that troopies have truck suspension under them that is quite stiff giving the illusion there is no weight on the ball.
KFT
Yes....the 2300kg rear axle certainly helps!
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 30th of October 2020 08:33:10 PM
A few weeks ago, I caught up with an owner of a near identical TD to mine and we compared our setups. The only real difference to running gear was I have an optional 4" lift and a DO35 on mine while the other uses a McHitch. Mine is towed with a stock height 2013 Hilux, the other with a lifted 2009 DMax. Side by side, mine rides level and the other is about 150mm lower at the rear even though hitch height is within mm of each other. Ride height is not an indication of load, tbm or any other mass but almost exclusively geometry.
yobarr said
09:16 AM Oct 31, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
The main effect of zero ball weight would be the frequent requirement to stop to facilitate a change of underwear .
This is the result of zero ball weight....... Notice that the caravan sits level,without a jockey wheel? When the vehicle towing this van was unsettled by an overtaking semi,the whole lot overturned,sadly resulting in three people losing their lives.Cheers
A few weeks ago, I caught up with an owner of a near identical TD to mine and we compared our setups. The only real difference to running gear was I have an optional 4" lift and a DO35 on mine while the other uses a McHitch. Mine is towed with a stock height 2013 Hilux, the other with a lifted 2009 DMax. Side by side, mine rides level and the other is about 150mm lower at the rear even though hitch height is within mm of each other. Ride height is not an indication of load, tbm or any other mass but almost exclusively geometry.
Your last sentence says it all....
Eaglemax said
05:01 PM Oct 31, 2020
I decided long ago not to draw any conclusions on other rigs.
I get approached all the time about mine. "How can you tow that van with that car"? I then ask them how heavy they believe the loaded caravan to be.
They scratch their heads usually and I get responses like "gotta be 1500, maybe 1700kg"
Nope..."950kg"...loaded. Next question usually "you wouldnt have anything in it would ya"? "Yep, full ensuite, kitchen, cupboards, 2 single beds, TV diesel heater- quite comfortable actually mate"!
So I wonder how many people judge my rig when passing it ?
Yep. Don't come to conclusions without all the information. Trailer 1.5 to 2T. Very low yaw inertia. Ball weight well under 50kg. Tug 6T. Result - totally stable (up to 100kph, tested, on any road surface). Cheers, Peter
Yep. Don't come to conclusions without all the information. Trailer 1.5 to 2T. Very low yaw inertia. Ball weight well under 50kg. Tug 6T. Result - totally stable (up to 100kph, tested, on any road surface). Cheers, Peter
Yesterday we were travelling along the Bruce Highway inb Nth Qld where I noticed a Toyota Troopie towing a Newlands dual axle caravan about 20 footer.
What caught my attention the troopie appeared to level, but the caravan was very pronounced being as being very tail down compared to the front, it looked like being about 6-9 inches varaiation.
This kind variation is not unusual seeing many tinnies and small trailers towed behind 4WD's, but seeing a caravan being towed with that attitude made me wonder when being towed like that it would have almost zero ball weight. What would the effects of a zero ball weight
So the owner can reach the bikes, water Jerry cans, fuel Jerry cans, spare wheels by stepping up on the toolbox & jumping on the lid to close the full box!
KFT
Hi Graham...the fact that the front of the van is 6-9" higher than the tail means little.It may be that the troopie's towbar was way higher than the van's drawbar,and that the van's drawbar had to be lifted to the car's towbar to connect the van to the car? Unless the van had load-sharing suspension,raising the front would actually take weight off the lead axle,and thus increase towball weight.My towball is well above the ground.....I cannot measure it now because it is raining heavily here...but I simply played around with the drawbar to get the van level.Raising the drawbar on a van with non-loadsharing suspension actually increases towball weight,and although it may look stupid,and possibly cause instability because of extra wind currents under the van,I very much doubt that van's towball weight would be of any concern.Cheers
Then we have the other extreme!
P.S Stopped raining now.....from ground to top of towbar shank is 630mm.
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 31st of October 2020 08:59:32 AM
Yes....the 2300kg rear axle certainly helps!
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 30th of October 2020 08:33:10 PM
This is the result of zero ball weight....... Notice that the caravan sits level,without a jockey wheel? When the vehicle towing this van was unsettled by an overtaking semi,the whole lot overturned,sadly resulting in three people losing their lives.Cheers
Your last sentence says it all....
I decided long ago not to draw any conclusions on other rigs.
I get approached all the time about mine. "How can you tow that van with that car"? I then ask them how heavy they believe the loaded caravan to be.
They scratch their heads usually and I get responses like "gotta be 1500, maybe 1700kg"
Nope..."950kg"...loaded. Next question usually "you wouldnt have anything in it would ya"? "Yep, full ensuite, kitchen, cupboards, 2 single beds, TV diesel heater- quite comfortable actually mate"!
So I wonder how many people judge my rig when passing it ?
Yep. Don't come to conclusions without all the information.
Trailer 1.5 to 2T. Very low yaw inertia. Ball weight well under 50kg. Tug 6T.
Result - totally stable (up to 100kph, tested, on any road surface).
Cheers,
Peter
As physics (and logic!) would suggest! Cheers