Nothing has been "proven right". All this result means is that,out of the 3540 contributors,3500 'liked' it and there were 40 'no likes'. If a survey was conducted among all those persons who receive welfare,asking "Do you think welfare payments should be increased?" there would likely be close to a 100% "yes" vote.BUT,if the same question was asked of those of us who are forced to fund these welfare payments,the results would be perhaps be different....a whole lot different,I suspect? "Surveys" such as this mean little,with the last Federal election being a case in point.The majority of the members of the voting public were a lot smarter than the pre-election polls had suggested that they were.Cheers
bgt said
03:04 PM Sep 9, 2020
When looking at polls you always have to look at who is asking the question and what the question is.
The ABC does a lot of on line polls. But the ABC attracts a lot of left leaning readers. So the results are biased. Do the same with Sky and you get the bias.
Trump, Johnson and Morrison are all there despite what the polls said.
outlaw40 said
03:16 PM Sep 9, 2020
Proves nothing , about as reliable as a product revue in a caravan magazine .
Recoup said
03:26 PM Sep 9, 2020
Forget the poll , has anyone watched the video ? Ron Paul is pointing out some important news we don't hear in the media.
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:26 PM Sep 9, 2020
To the question "Is the lockdown a mistake"?
Australia has had 762 deaths from Covid-19, that is 30 deaths per 1 million population.
Sweden has not had lock downs. Their death rate per 1 million population is 577. If that was the same for Australia's population, that would be 14,425 deaths (so far). www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Whether you think that is OK or not depends on whether any of those deaths are you or your loved ones.
None of those numbers take into account any of the other long term health issues that will afflict some of the survivors for the rest of their lives.
Cheers,
Peter
Tony Bev said
09:06 PM Sep 9, 2020
I watched the video, from start to finish
It seemed to be very selective reporting
I got the impression, (so I could be wrong), that they were both pushing the anti lockdown/mask wheelbarrow
landy said
10:22 PM Sep 9, 2020
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" It was once believed by the majority that the world was flat but that did not make them right.
Landy
-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 9th of September 2020 10:33:09 PM
Gundog said
10:26 PM Sep 9, 2020
The Victorian lockdown has been brought into question, since it was revealed by Prof Sutton who threw Dictator Dan under the bus, it appears that the curfew and lockdown were not on medical advice, but solely to aid police enforcement.
oldbloke said
11:13 PM Sep 9, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
To the question "Is the lockdown a mistake"?
Australia has had 762 deaths from Covid-19, that is 30 deaths per 1 million population.
Sweden has not had lock downs. Their death rate per 1 million population is 577. If that was the same for Australia's population, that would be 14,425 deaths (so far). www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Whether you think that is OK or not depends on whether any of those deaths are you or your loved ones. None of those numbers take into account any of the other long term health issues that will afflict some of the survivors for the rest of their lives. Cheers, Peter
Absolutely 100% correct. I myself on another forum have said same. But the anti lock down clowns do not accept the simple grade 3 arithmetic. Perhaps an indication of their IQ.
Mike Harding said
04:15 AM Sep 10, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
To the question "Is the lockdown a mistake"?
Australia has had 762 deaths from Covid-19, that is 30 deaths per 1 million population.
Sweden has not had lock downs. Their death rate per 1 million population is 577. If that was the same for Australia's population, that would be 14,425 deaths (so far). www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
And Japan, with no lockdown, has had 1400 deaths in a population of 126M or 11 deaths per million - so, clearly, lockdowns down work.
Moral: Simply quoting figures in complex situations without considering all the other data is pointless and misleading.
dorian said
05:40 AM Sep 10, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
And Japan, with no lockdown, has had 1400 deaths in a population of 126M or 11 deaths per million - so, clearly, lockdowns down work.
Moral: Simply quoting figures in complex situations without considering all the other data is pointless and misleading.
How many deaths per million in Victoria? If there were no lockdowns in Victoria, would the the death rate have declined, or would it have skyrocketed? Or do you think that the death/infection rate came down all by itself? If the Victorian borders were not locked down, what would be the death rates in the neighbouring states?
If you really want to know whether properly implemented lockdowns work, look at Wuhan. China bit the bullet and by doing so, they dodged a recession.
Whenarewethere said
06:48 AM Sep 10, 2020
I've been to Japan & they have a culture of social distancing. They do have an issue with crowded trains. If they shook hands & doing the hugging & kissing we do thing would have been a lot worse.
bgt said
07:05 AM Sep 10, 2020
No one here is changing their minds regardless of polls or who said what. When someone calls some with a different opinion a "clown" then discussion is a waste of time.
Rob Driver said
07:44 AM Sep 10, 2020
Here are the figures that Old Bloke May be alluding to.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone can not see the benefit of a lockdown.
I would not believe any report of how China handled the virus. There are very valid reasons why journalists have been removed from that country.
Angie those figures/charts have been around for ages. It's theory and doesn't include many other factors. There are numerous examples of how lockdown hasn't been used and the viruse has been controlled.
For pro lockdown advocates I ask one simple question, again. "What is the acceptable number of new cases before the lockdown is gone?"
Australia was the envy of the world without a lockdown. So what happened?
dorian said
08:37 AM Sep 10, 2020
bgt wrote:
Angie those figures/charts have been around for ages. It's theory and doesn't include many other factors.
Exactly. In fact, if we didn't include those "other factors", the projections would be a lot worse, making your anti-lockdown arguments a lot weaker.
If one person infects 0.625 people in 5 days, and if these people are free to mingle with others, then after 10 days we would expect that the number of infections would have risen to 1.625 x 1.625. So after 30 days, the number would be 1.625 ^ 6 = 18.4.
Similarly, in the first case the number would be 3.5 ^ 6 = 1838. Clearly there are mitigating factors at play. No doubt the most important of these would be the "sociability" of each infected individual. Less sociable people would be less likely to pass on the infection, irrespective of the social distancing standard. Clearly this demonstrates the benefit of isolation.
bgt said
08:48 AM Sep 10, 2020
Ok a dumb question. If lockdowns are so essential then why aren't they being imposed in other states?
It's all about management. We don't ban cars to stop road deaths. We manage it.
I know I'm talking to myself but the lack of common sense and logical thinking is beyond my pay scale.
the rocket said
10:34 AM Sep 10, 2020
Every one i speak to says they are sick of it and just want to get back to close to normal life. Open the shops, and businesses but wear masks and social distance where possible n have good hygiene. This virus is with us now forever, we need to learn how to live with it.
Hendo said
11:27 AM Sep 10, 2020
Padlock coming soon me thinks
Rob Driver said
11:29 AM Sep 10, 2020
Thank you for your comments gentlemen,
The chart above is old now and there may be many variables with the figures. A mathematical prediction is no more accurate than the estimated social contact example as in the chart.
A simple explanation would be that a person or group of people in a rural area would for the most part not have the number of social contacts than someone in a city. To use the figures against the total population numbers is not a true indication of the spread of the virus. Just by its nature a city will always have more contact and transfer than those in rural locations.
Hence the argument from those country people who feel that they are being harshly treated.
The problem any authority has is the people who feel the that the rules dont apply to them.
This is evident on almost a daily basis.
The original lockdown procedures in Vic would have worked had all the recommended procedures were followed.
After all, it did, and has worked in other states when the population were basically compliant.
BGT the numbers of over 700 new cases every day is why the strict lockdown exists in Vic but is not believed to be necessary in the other states. To compare Vic figures with some other states and argue that lockdown is not needed in Vic would be detrimental to achieving management. The figures today are down to 50...
It is working so hang in there Vics
Regards
Angie
Rob Driver said
11:35 AM Sep 10, 2020
Here is a video that might generate some more healthy discussion on the forum. There are some very good points included in it.
France 6000 new cases, UK 2000 overnight. India 60,000.
We were told by neighbours who have family in China. Its not so.
Recoup said
12:05 PM Sep 10, 2020
Peter- Margaret
I don't understand how some countries count the death toll ?
Here we have Sweden without lock down 580 death /M
US with lockdown 590 death /M
Spain with lockdown 630 death /M
UK with lockdown 610 death /M
Belgium with lockdown 850 death / m
Brett Sutton confirms Melbourne covid deaths are not covid deaths ??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQFRUzYMEyA
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:16 PM Sep 10, 2020
Whenarewethere wrote:
I've been to Japan & they have a culture of social distancing. They do have an issue with crowded trains. If they shook hands & doing the hugging & kissing we do thing would have been a lot worse.
They also wear masks as a general practice in public.
Cheers,
Peter
msg said
11:28 AM Sep 11, 2020
How about building special COVID safe cities like China are doing? Bann the experimentation and eating of live animals and clean up their wet markets. Wouldn't that be a better starting place to cope with these virus'?
Recoup said
01:39 PM Sep 11, 2020
My last comment
Alan Jones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1qPyB0fKCM
Once again, (same as the first vid the Original Poster put up), I thought that it was very selective reporting
I got the impression that Mr Jones, was pushing the, stop lockdowns/open borders/business as usual/national advertising campaign, wheelbarrow
dogbox said
02:17 PM Sep 11, 2020
bgt wrote:
Ok a dumb question. If lockdowns are so essential then why aren't they being imposed in other states?
It's all about management. We don't ban cars to stop road deaths. We manage it.
I know I'm talking to myself but the lack of common sense and logical thinking is beyond my pay scale.
we have speed limits .stop signs , traffic lights and if we don't obey we get fined an people will still speed run red lights ect ,can you imagine the carnage if their where no rules. there will always be people who think the rules don't apply to themselves. wonder what it would look like if there where no restriction on travel, caravan people could have been one of the main spreaders if we where allowed to travel north for the winter
Recoup said
03:10 PM Sep 11, 2020
Tony You know what it's like to hear Neil Mitchel on Melbourne Radio every morning for the last 8 Month ? Just Covid, Covid, Covid, I think this bloke gets high on it.( no I can't turn it off because the wife listens to him) :))) I was glad to hear that somebody was having a differend view on all this.cheers
-- Edited by Recoup on Friday 11th of September 2020 03:11:35 PM
Check this out 3.5k likes and 40 no likes
Pandemics Sceptics .. Proven Right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JqH0Y_jcT4
Nothing has been "proven right". All this result means is that,out of the 3540 contributors,3500 'liked' it and there were 40 'no likes'. If a survey was conducted among all those persons who receive welfare,asking "Do you think welfare payments should be increased?" there would likely be close to a 100% "yes" vote.BUT,if the same question was asked of those of us who are forced to fund these welfare payments,the results would be perhaps be different....a whole lot different,I suspect? "Surveys" such as this mean little,with the last Federal election being a case in point.The majority of the members of the voting public were a lot smarter than the pre-election polls had suggested that they were.Cheers
Australia has had 762 deaths from Covid-19, that is 30 deaths per 1 million population.
Sweden has not had lock downs. Their death rate per 1 million population is 577. If that was the same for Australia's population, that would be 14,425 deaths (so far).
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Whether you think that is OK or not depends on whether any of those deaths are you or your loved ones.
None of those numbers take into account any of the other long term health issues that will afflict some of the survivors for the rest of their lives.
Cheers,
Peter
It seemed to be very selective reporting
I got the impression, (so I could be wrong), that they were both pushing the anti lockdown/mask wheelbarrow
-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 9th of September 2020 10:33:09 PM
Absolutely 100% correct. I myself on another forum have said same. But the anti lock down clowns do not accept the simple grade 3 arithmetic. Perhaps an indication of their IQ.
And Japan, with no lockdown, has had 1400 deaths in a population of 126M or 11 deaths per million - so, clearly, lockdowns down work.
Moral: Simply quoting figures in complex situations without considering all the other data is pointless and misleading.
How many deaths per million in Victoria? If there were no lockdowns in Victoria, would the the death rate have declined, or would it have skyrocketed? Or do you think that the death/infection rate came down all by itself? If the Victorian borders were not locked down, what would be the death rates in the neighbouring states?
If you really want to know whether properly implemented lockdowns work, look at Wuhan. China bit the bullet and by doing so, they dodged a recession.
I've been to Japan & they have a culture of social distancing. They do have an issue with crowded trains. If they shook hands & doing the hugging & kissing we do thing would have been a lot worse.
Here are the figures that Old Bloke May be alluding to.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone can not see the benefit of a lockdown.
I would not believe any report of how China handled the virus. There are very valid reasons why journalists have been removed from that country.
Regards
Angie
Exactly. In fact, if we didn't include those "other factors", the projections would be a lot worse, making your anti-lockdown arguments a lot weaker.
If one person infects 0.625 people in 5 days, and if these people are free to mingle with others, then after 10 days we would expect that the number of infections would have risen to 1.625 x 1.625. So after 30 days, the number would be 1.625 ^ 6 = 18.4.
Similarly, in the first case the number would be 3.5 ^ 6 = 1838. Clearly there are mitigating factors at play. No doubt the most important of these would be the "sociability" of each infected individual. Less sociable people would be less likely to pass on the infection, irrespective of the social distancing standard. Clearly this demonstrates the benefit of isolation.
Every one i speak to says they are sick of it and just want to get back to close to normal life. Open the shops, and businesses but wear masks and social distance where possible n have good hygiene. This virus is with us now forever, we need to learn how to live with it.
The chart above is old now and there may be many variables with the figures. A mathematical prediction is no more accurate than the estimated social contact example as in the chart.
A simple explanation would be that a person or group of people in a rural area would for the most part not have the number of social contacts than someone in a city. To use the figures against the total population numbers is not a true indication of the spread of the virus. Just by its nature a city will always have more contact and transfer than those in rural locations.
Hence the argument from those country people who feel that they are being harshly treated.
The problem any authority has is the people who feel the that the rules dont apply to them.
This is evident on almost a daily basis.
The original lockdown procedures in Vic would have worked had all the recommended procedures were followed.
After all, it did, and has worked in other states when the population were basically compliant.
BGT the numbers of over 700 new cases every day is why the strict lockdown exists in Vic but is not believed to be necessary in the other states. To compare Vic figures with some other states and argue that lockdown is not needed in Vic would be detrimental to achieving management. The figures today are down to 50...
It is working so hang in there Vics
Regards
Angie
youtu.be/Qi0edf_nJDo
Regards
Angie
Hi recoup and everyone,
No. The new figures out from Europe over night.
France 6000 new cases, UK 2000 overnight. India 60,000.
We were told by neighbours who have family in China.
Its not so.
Peter- Margaret
I don't understand how some countries count the death toll ?
Here we have Sweden without lock down 580 death /M
US with lockdown 590 death /M
Spain with lockdown 630 death /M
UK with lockdown 610 death /M
Belgium with lockdown 850 death / m
Brett Sutton confirms Melbourne covid deaths are not covid deaths ??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQFRUzYMEyA
They also wear masks as a general practice in public.
Cheers,
Peter
My last comment
Alan Jones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1qPyB0fKCM
Once again, (same as the first vid the Original Poster put up), I thought that it was very selective reporting
I got the impression that Mr Jones, was pushing the, stop lockdowns/open borders/business as usual/national advertising campaign, wheelbarrow
we have speed limits .stop signs , traffic lights and if we don't obey we get fined an people will still speed run red lights ect ,can you imagine the carnage if their where no rules. there will always be people who think the rules don't apply to themselves.
wonder what it would look like if there where no restriction on travel, caravan people could have been one of the main spreaders if we where allowed to travel north for the winter
Tony
You know what it's like to hear Neil Mitchel on Melbourne Radio every morning for the last 8 Month ? Just Covid, Covid, Covid, I think this bloke gets high on it.( no I can't turn it off because the wife listens to him) :))) I was glad to hear that somebody was having a differend view on all this.cheers
-- Edited by Recoup on Friday 11th of September 2020 03:11:35 PM