Just saw an interview with Winston Peters where he suggests the Australian bred terrorist found guilty of the Mosque massacre in NZ could serve out his life sentence in Australia. I have thoughts both ways. Peters' point that having this lowlife out of NZ would help some level of recovery in the victims, triggered some thoughts. There seems to be an opportunity here to reach out to NZ and materially support the country should Australia agree to take the terrorist and keep him in the general population (no special treatment) here. That the terrorist is an Australian citizen is not that important. Taking this crim would be a really outstanding expression of empathy for the NZ victims and would be consistent with the traditions of the ANZAC relationship between the two countries. Cost? Consider it as Foreign Aid and a drop in the bucket compared to that budget. I can make the argument for a Win, Win, Win for both countries if Australia ignores the politics and does something humanistic.
Iza
Kebbin said
07:38 AM Aug 28, 2020
What we we do better than NZ? Probably release the Cretin after 10 years! He would have more supporters here let him rot, I'm sure his fellow inmates will give him comfort and counseling.
outlaw40 said
07:45 AM Aug 28, 2020
As long as we can send NZ ALL the kiwis that are in our prisons in return . I saw somewhere yesterday an estimate of $1.5 million per year to keep him in prison !!!!!!!!
bgt said
07:51 AM Aug 28, 2020
NZ has been complaining about Australia sending NZ criminals back to NZ. Now the boots on the other foot. Need to be consistent.
Rob Driver said
08:02 AM Aug 28, 2020
bgt wrote:
NZ has been complaining about Australia sending NZ criminals back to NZ. Now the boots on the other foot. Need to be consistent.
Yes, Australia has deported NZ convicted criminals back to their home country AFTER they have completed their sentence in Aus at the expense of the Aussie taxpayer.
It may be more comforting to the affected communities in NZ if those communities actually realised that if NZ adopted a similar model of Australias gun laws then there will be a lot less chance of this happening again.
The offender broke the law in NZ not Australia so why would we want to burden our children and grandchildren with yet another unnecessary cost to punish or rehabilitate him.
Regards
Angie
outlaw40 said
08:02 AM Aug 28, 2020
Dont we send them back AFTER they have done there time ? when they have done there time they get deported because they now have a criminal record and no longer meet the visa criteria . NZ is free to do the same they can send him back after he has served his sentence .
dogbox said
08:29 AM Aug 28, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
Dont we send them back AFTER they have done there time ? when they have done there time they get deported because they now have a criminal record and no longer meet the visa criteria . NZ is free to do the same they can send him back after he has served his sentence .
i thought his sentence was life no parole ? he would be coming back in a box or urn
Magnarc said
08:30 AM Aug 28, 2020
Sorry guys and gals but only one action needs to be taken in cases like this. Its called a rope.
outlaw40 said
08:40 AM Aug 28, 2020
Dogbox that was my point , happy enough to take him back then
woolman said
08:57 AM Aug 28, 2020
I would send him on a holiday to Iran.
bgt said
09:22 AM Aug 28, 2020
Give him a canoe. A paddle and a few can of bake beans. Then point him towards Australia!!!
AndyCap100 said
09:34 AM Aug 28, 2020
As a citizen of NZ and living near Christchurch ,i would immediately push him into the lion enclosure at our local wildlife park . At least that gives em a bit of sport and a free feed. Bas---d deserves to suffer .
yobarr said
09:40 AM Aug 28, 2020
Magnarc wrote:
Sorry guys and gals but only one action needs to be taken in cases like this. Its called a rope.
At least someone agrees with me! Why must the Kiwi Govt (taxpayers) pay huge sums of money to house this idiot for maybe 50 years,when a length of rope is probably around $10 at the Big Green Shed? Cheer#
Aus-Kiwi said
09:41 AM Aug 28, 2020
I think we all agree . Wherever he is he can ROT !! I remember the French who bombed the Rainbow warrior got away with it eventually. It wont happen imo in this case !! The deport thing is a little different. Some dont know they are NZ citizens . Look back to politics a few years ago . Came here with their parents .
Collo said
12:09 PM Aug 28, 2020
I would like to bring him back here. Consider the scale of this absolutely horrendous crime, I think it is only fitting that we show our NZ cousins that we are deeply ashamed that a Australian citizen could perpetrate such a terrible crime. I'm sure the surviours, relatives of the victims and the general NZ population would be glad to see him off their shore.
I think its the least we can do. Bring him back to Oz.
Collo.
outlaw40 said
01:13 PM Aug 28, 2020
collo bringing him back is fine as long as NZ are prepared to acceptall there criminals back to serve there time in NZ . LIKE TO KNOW THE % OF KIWIS we have in our gaols costing us an arm and a leg to support .He is a criminal , he commited a crime in NZ serve his time their the same any other country in the world .
Izabarack said
01:14 PM Aug 28, 2020
As usual, I notice the "hit'em harder" brigade avoids any consideration of the victims. The sentence awarded to the crim is Life without Parole. Whether he serves that sentence here or in NZ is not up for argument; he will never be on the streets again. If having this crim (notice I avoid using his name) out of NZ contributes any thing to the healing and getting-on-with-life to the victims, it is simply callous to avoid considering the benefit to those victims. Thee current practice of Australia sending crims back tot NZ after their sentence has had a lot of praise simply because it honours the victims. Jacinda Ardern has won a lot of praise with her empathetic approach to victims, a lot more than the "hang them" or the "thoughts and prayers" approach. Scott Morison has a defining moment in his grasp. I wonder if he will act on it - www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-28/scott-morrison-terrorist-new-zealand-transfer-prison-sentence/12605166
Magnarc said
01:33 PM Aug 28, 2020
"If having this crim (notice I avoid using his name) out of NZ contributes any thing to the healing and getting-on-with-life to the victims, it is simply callous to avoid considering the benefit to those victims."
Izabarack, I would have thought that to know he was six feet under would bring more healing and satisfaction to those people than knowing he was still alive, when their relos and friends are no longer here?????????
Proud to be a member of the "hit em hard brigade".
-- Edited by Magnarc on Friday 28th of August 2020 01:34:49 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
02:09 PM Aug 28, 2020
The crimes here have nothing with this piece of fecies !! Thats giving sh it a bad name !! If he come here to Au Prison its only to assist in good will to keep him
locked up ., If he lives that long ?
outlaw40 said
04:21 PM Aug 28, 2020
No special treatment...did the Bali 9 get to come home to do there time, what about Schepple corby or cocaine cassy all did there time where they did the crime . No special treatment ,put him straight into genpop no protective custody and give him the biggest meanest bloke in the place for a cell mate.
dabbler said
04:39 PM Aug 28, 2020
Australia actually has legislation that covers international prisoner transfer. Lots of reading if anyone is interested and it might actually be illegal to accept a transfer if all the conditions aren't met. Under the Act, NSW (assuming there are family still living in NSW) has a power of veto. In the end, it will be a political decision not a moral decision.
dabbler said
04:42 PM Aug 28, 2020
Outlaw, I strongly suspect the genpop enforcers would put him on a pedestal.
Mike Harding said
06:13 AM Aug 29, 2020
Magnarc wrote:
Sorry guys and gals but only one action needs to be taken in cases like this. Its called a rope.
Be a little cautious here.
Whilst in this case guilt appears to be clear keep in mind that 11% (1 in 9) of accused who are sentenced to death in the USA are later found to be innocent. That's one hell of a lot of people for the state to kill for no good reason - and saying "Sorry" afterwards really isn't sufficient.
I heard Winston Peters discussing this yesterday and his sole motive for transfer is money, the cost of keeping a prisoner for life. In addition NZ is not a signatory to the international prisoner swap deal so, although, I have no real opinion either way it seems a very superficial ground upon which to set a precedent and, if such is done, I think we really do have to expect NZ to take all NZ nationals who commit crimes in Oz.
Izabarack said
08:24 AM Aug 29, 2020
Magnarc wrote:
.....I would have thought that to know he was six feet under would bring more healing and satisfaction to those people than knowing he was still alive,
-- Edited by Magnarc on Friday 28th of August 2020 01:34:49 PM
Not so. The act the survivors concentrate on is the taking of a life. Revenge may suit one person but imposes further penalty on those who see the death penality as state sanctioned murder. Capital Punishment involves taking a life and two wrongs do not make a right. Survivors I have interviewed are, mostly, grateful that the jailed crim gets to know every day that he or she is locked up as a consequence of their actions. A dead crim does not know he or she is being punished. Survivors who have seen a crim get the death penalty sometimes come to see themselves as every bit as bad as the dead crim.
It is all a bit difficult to come up with an attitude that fits everyone.
Iza
bgt said
10:34 AM Aug 29, 2020
Izabarack I agree. 2 wrongs don't make a right. Taking a life, regardless of what they have done, only drags you down to their level. Life without parole will be a daily reminder of the consequences of his actions. Mind you I don't believe these sorts of people ever 'get it'.
outlaw40 said
10:58 AM Aug 29, 2020
As i said in an earlier post estimated cost to keep him in prison is $1.5 million per year ( dont know who came up with this ) is it fair for the public to have to cover this for the next 40 or so years . two wrongs may not make a right but in some cases its easily justified .
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Saturday 29th of August 2020 10:59:08 AM
Magnarc said
11:45 AM Aug 29, 2020
It is obvious that there is a wide diversity of opinion on this as is the case with other controversial topics, this is what forums like this are for so that opinions can be aired. I will stick to what I wrote in my earlier post but I respect the views of others as I would expect them to respect mine.
Izabarack said
01:29 PM Aug 29, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
....... it seems a very superficial ground upon which to set a precedent and, if such is done, I think we really do have to expect NZ to take all NZ nationals who commit crimes in Oz.
Setting such precedent would or could be one good thing to come from of a bit of thinking outside the usual lines. Would also offset the cost of bringing the Mosque massacre terrorist here.
Iza
Tony Bev said
02:28 PM Aug 29, 2020
My opinion (as a layman), has always been
When they removed the death sentence for murder, it sent out a clear message, to the rest of us laymen
We can murder, as many as we want, for whatever reason/excuse we can think of, knowing we can live out our lives, with a roof over our heads, a bed to sleep in, and food in our belly
I also feel that not hanging a person who murders 51 people, is Political Correctness, gone mad
I personally do not wish to donate to this persons welfare, ($M1.5 per year), so he can stay where he is
bgt said
07:50 AM Aug 30, 2020
This may seem a clear cut case to most folks. But is it? He obviously has a mental condition. So where are you going to draw the line with those who claim mental illness for their action? Too many grey areas. And you can't unhang someone. Where's the line for those who are executed and those who aren't? This case is obvious but will the next case? And before anyone makes accusations I think he deserves what he gets. But beware of the lynch mob mentality.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8669287/New-Zealand-demands-Australia-evil-terrorist-Brenton-Tarrant.html
Just saw an interview with Winston Peters where he suggests the Australian bred terrorist found guilty of the Mosque massacre in NZ could serve out his life sentence in Australia. I have thoughts both ways. Peters' point that having this lowlife out of NZ would help some level of recovery in the victims, triggered some thoughts. There seems to be an opportunity here to reach out to NZ and materially support the country should Australia agree to take the terrorist and keep him in the general population (no special treatment) here. That the terrorist is an Australian citizen is not that important. Taking this crim would be a really outstanding expression of empathy for the NZ victims and would be consistent with the traditions of the ANZAC relationship between the two countries. Cost? Consider it as Foreign Aid and a drop in the bucket compared to that budget. I can make the argument for a Win, Win, Win for both countries if Australia ignores the politics and does something humanistic.
Iza
Yes, Australia has deported NZ convicted criminals back to their home country AFTER they have completed their sentence in Aus at the expense of the Aussie taxpayer.
It may be more comforting to the affected communities in NZ if those communities actually realised that if NZ adopted a similar model of Australias gun laws then there will be a lot less chance of this happening again.
The offender broke the law in NZ not Australia so why would we want to burden our children and grandchildren with yet another unnecessary cost to punish or rehabilitate him.
Regards
Angie
i thought his sentence was life no parole ? he would be coming back in a box or urn
Sorry guys and gals but only one action needs to be taken in cases like this. Its called a rope.
At least someone agrees with me! Why must the Kiwi Govt (taxpayers) pay huge sums of money to house this idiot for maybe 50 years,when a length of rope is probably around $10 at the Big Green Shed? Cheer#
I would like to bring him back here. Consider the scale of this absolutely horrendous crime, I think it is only fitting that we show our NZ cousins that we are deeply ashamed that a Australian citizen could perpetrate such a terrible crime. I'm sure the surviours, relatives of the victims and the general NZ population would be glad to see him off their shore.
I think its the least we can do. Bring him back to Oz.
Collo.
"If having this crim (notice I avoid using his name) out of NZ contributes any thing to the healing and getting-on-with-life to the victims, it is simply callous to avoid considering the benefit to those victims."
Izabarack, I would have thought that to know he was six feet under would bring more healing and satisfaction to those people than knowing he was still alive, when their relos and friends are no longer here?????????
Proud to be a member of the "hit em hard brigade".
-- Edited by Magnarc on Friday 28th of August 2020 01:34:49 PM
locked up ., If he lives that long ?
Be a little cautious here.
Whilst in this case guilt appears to be clear keep in mind that 11% (1 in 9) of accused who are sentenced to death in the USA are later found to be innocent. That's one hell of a lot of people for the state to kill for no good reason - and saying "Sorry" afterwards really isn't sufficient.
I heard Winston Peters discussing this yesterday and his sole motive for transfer is money, the cost of keeping a prisoner for life. In addition NZ is not a signatory to the international prisoner swap deal so, although, I have no real opinion either way it seems a very superficial ground upon which to set a precedent and, if such is done, I think we really do have to expect NZ to take all NZ nationals who commit crimes in Oz.
Not so. The act the survivors concentrate on is the taking of a life. Revenge may suit one person but imposes further penalty on those who see the death penality as state sanctioned murder. Capital Punishment involves taking a life and two wrongs do not make a right. Survivors I have interviewed are, mostly, grateful that the jailed crim gets to know every day that he or she is locked up as a consequence of their actions. A dead crim does not know he or she is being punished. Survivors who have seen a crim get the death penalty sometimes come to see themselves as every bit as bad as the dead crim.
It is all a bit difficult to come up with an attitude that fits everyone.
Iza
As i said in an earlier post estimated cost to keep him in prison is $1.5 million per year ( dont know who came up with this ) is it fair for the public to have to cover this for the next 40 or so years . two wrongs may not make a right but in some cases its easily justified .
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Saturday 29th of August 2020 10:59:08 AM
It is obvious that there is a wide diversity of opinion on this as is the case with other controversial topics, this is what forums like this are for so that opinions can be aired. I will stick to what I wrote in my earlier post but I respect the views of others as I would expect them to respect mine.
Setting such precedent would or could be one good thing to come from of a bit of thinking outside the usual lines. Would also offset the cost of bringing the Mosque massacre terrorist here.
Iza
When they removed the death sentence for murder, it sent out a clear message, to the rest of us laymen
We can murder, as many as we want, for whatever reason/excuse we can think of, knowing we can live out our lives, with a roof over our heads, a bed to sleep in, and food in our belly
I also feel that not hanging a person who murders 51 people, is Political Correctness, gone mad
I personally do not wish to donate to this persons welfare, ($M1.5 per year), so he can stay where he is