Australia must immediately prepare for a hydrogen revolution to win the global race to secure lucrative Asian export contracts. These words were spoken last year by the PM as the Morrison government pledged to be a major player in this burgeoning industry.
In May this year Sco Mo backed up this pledge with a $300 million cash payment to the Clean ENERGY Finance Corporation for investment in the Hydrogen industry. The aim is for Australia to become a major exporter of this clean energy.
Thanks to those brilliant scientists at the world respecteded CSIRO, a hydrogen future may be much sooner than we think. They have created a metal membrane that filters out pure hydrogen gas from ammonia. It can then be dispensed into fuel cell cars, buses and even trucks. And the technology isnt just fantasy. In 2018 they powered fuel cell electric vehicles using locally-produced ultra-high purity hydrogen. Since this success the technology is being commercialised via a partnership with Twiggy Forrest's Fortescue Metals.
The added beauty of this ground breaking technology is that now hydrogen can be transported as ammonia and then reverted to hydrogen for use. This opens up massive export potential for Australia.
-- Edited by Richie148 on Thursday 16th of July 2020 08:05:32 AM
Jaahn said
11:07 AM Jul 16, 2020
Hi Well it is the kiss of death if the pollies are pushing any direction for a new technology. They only react to pressure by lobbyists that have a vested interest. Sorry to say that. Hydrogen has a lot of problems and is yet to show us the road to go down IMHO. It has been in the development phase for 30 years that i know about and still we are not using it. A very difficult gas to work with. Some well respected people suggest it will be twice as expensive to run a car on it than a battery vehicle.
"the world respected CSIRO" would be much better off and have produced many more ideas if the previous liberal governments had not gutted it by various means and thus loosing the expertise it had before. A mere shadow of its previous self and mostly doing industry research to try and support itself. IMHO. Jaahn
Whenarewethere said
11:41 AM Jul 16, 2020
Recently 6 gas wells out of 19,000 in Queensland were tested by CSIRO were "randomly" put forward by the gas industry for testing for benchmarking environmental issues. All was ok!
Others have said this does not pass the pub test.
I tend to believe the latter.
Mamil said
08:31 PM Jul 16, 2020
Hydrogen has long been touted as the "fuel of the future" but that future never seems to arrive! Fifteen years ago there were hydrogen fuel cell busses on the streets of Perth, but it came to nowt.
I hope Hydrogen will still find a place in a cleaner energy future, but I suspect it will be a niche player in a diverse mix of alternative technologies.
-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 16th of July 2020 08:56:56 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
09:36 PM Jul 19, 2020
And a mechanic I know said of my two Nissan that I put gas injection on "LPG belongs in a baby, no-where else."
Well it worked well in both diesel cars, except on very hot days - trying to fill the tank was difficult! One supplier in western QLD cooled his pump with hessian & water.
I have no idea how hydrogen will work under similar conditions! Politicians don't have a good track record, do they? Are they going to suggest we all live in southern states?
Dick0 said
06:04 PM Jul 26, 2020
Yes, Hydrogen is the fuel of the future, the distant future.
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:18 PM Jul 26, 2020
Well, I am optimistic about the hydrogen future in SA. Very soon, they will be adding hydrogen th the household gas supply in the southern suburbs.
Hydrogen is an easy fuel to make using excess solar and wind power and an easy fuel to compress, store and ship. Its energy density is much higher than petrol and diesel.
Cheers,
Peter
2 olestiffs said
07:08 PM Jul 26, 2020
hi, the old assembly line at toyota's altona north melbourne's factory . is changing too a hydrogen factory. they probaly started work approx 2 years ago now there. many cars are parked there in the old car park daily.
Jaahn said
07:14 PM Jul 26, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Well, I am optimistic about the hydrogen future in SA. Very soon, they will be adding hydrogen th the household gas supply in the southern suburbs. Hydrogen is an easy fuel to make using excess solar and wind power and an easy fuel to compress, store and ship. Its energy density is much higher than petrol and diesel. Cheers, Peter
Hi Peter
I respectfully disagree about hydrogen being an "easy fuel to compress, store and ship". That is the crux of the difficulties with hydrogen that everyone is working to overcome. We do hope that it will be produced by excess wind and solar power.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 26th of July 2020 07:16:25 PM
There is plenty of information on Hydrogen but it is swamped by the disinformation by a lot of people who are lobbying or are not practical or have blinkers.
Hydrogen cannot be liquified easily and needs excessive pressures or very low temperatures. Hydrogen is the smallest atom, and that cannot be 'fixed' and if kept as a gas in a steel pressure vessel under normal high pressures it just diffuses out over a period of some days or a month which leads to several serious problems. One you lose it at a serious rate, two it is extremely flamable around the tank area, three the hydrogen causes embrittlement of the metal vessel. Not easy stuff to work with at all.
Cheers Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 27th of July 2020 08:32:06 AM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 27th of July 2020 01:39:16 PM
Brenda and Alan said
07:25 PM Jul 27, 2020
Jaahn your a bit pessimistic about storage life. Many years ago in a lab I worked in we used compressed hydrogen in G sized steel cylinders for chemical analysis. These lasted well over 12 months with daily usage. The proposed transport will not be as compressed hydrogen but as liquid ammonia. The hydrogen will be extracted direct from the ammonia at its usage site then compressed into cylinders fuel tanks etc.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 27th of July 2020 07:26:12 PM
Jaahn said
10:00 AM Jul 28, 2020
Brenda and Alan wrote:
Jaahn your a bit pessimistic about storage life. Many years ago in a lab I worked in we used compressed hydrogen in G sized steel cylinders for chemical analysis. These lasted well over 12 months with daily usage. The proposed transport will not be as compressed hydrogen but as liquid ammonia. The hydrogen will be extracted direct from the ammonia at its usage site then compressed into cylinders fuel tanks etc.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 27th of July 2020 07:26:12 PM
Hi Alan
I probably am pessimistic. I hope you did read the many pages of safety data sheets for bottled hydrogen.
I give a small quote : U.S Department of Energy maintains a hydrogen safety best practices site with a lot of information about tanks and piping.[11] They dryly observe "Hydrogen is a very small molecule with low viscosity, and therefore prone to leakage.".
Note I am not anti hydrogen at all, but my reading over quite a few years leads me to think it will not be common in my life time. Even the Australian Hydrogen Future Plan gives it 30 years. I hope I am wrong and perhaps the breakthrough will be ammonia or metal hydride storage. But what would I know !
Jaahn
Whenarewethere said
10:23 AM Jul 28, 2020
Hydrogen will not leak through a tank quick enough to be of any issue for the normal expected storage life of the fuel. There is no point storing hydrogen for extended periods. Too much money is tied up in the infrastructure to have it in effect sitting idle.
Hydrogen is the ideal fuel as back up for wind & solar. Just have plenty of wind & solar & fill in the gaps with hydrogen, water & batteries as well. Tidal energy if we can solve wear & maintenance issues.
Bagmaker said
02:42 PM Aug 1, 2020
I am pretty sure there remains an embrittlement issue with any metal substances contacting hydrogen.
Whether that can be mitagated within replacements -cost wise- was an issue for its general use.
OK for scientists, not for us phlebs, unfortunately
Hydrogen has been dubbed the fuel of the future.
Australia must immediately prepare for a hydrogen revolution to win the global race to secure lucrative Asian export contracts. These words were spoken last year by the PM as the Morrison government pledged to be a major player in this burgeoning industry.
In May this year Sco Mo backed up this pledge with a $300 million cash payment to the Clean ENERGY Finance Corporation for investment in the Hydrogen industry. The aim is for Australia to become a major exporter of this clean energy.
Thanks to those brilliant scientists at the world respecteded CSIRO, a hydrogen future may be much sooner than we think. They have created a metal membrane that filters out pure hydrogen gas from ammonia. It can then be dispensed into fuel cell cars, buses and even trucks. And the technology isnt just fantasy. In 2018 they powered fuel cell electric vehicles using locally-produced ultra-high purity hydrogen. Since this success the technology is being commercialised via a partnership with Twiggy Forrest's Fortescue Metals.
The added beauty of this ground breaking technology is that now hydrogen can be transported as ammonia and then reverted to hydrogen for use. This opens up massive export potential for Australia.
-- Edited by Richie148 on Thursday 16th of July 2020 08:05:32 AM
Hi
It has been in the development phase for 30 years that i know about and still we are not using it. A very difficult gas to work with. Some well respected people suggest it will be twice as expensive to run a car on it than a battery vehicle.
Well it is the kiss of death if the pollies are pushing any direction for a new technology. They only react to pressure by lobbyists that have a vested interest. Sorry to say that.
Hydrogen has a lot of problems and is yet to show us the road to go down IMHO.
"the world respected CSIRO" would be much better off and have produced many more ideas if the previous liberal governments had not gutted it by various means and thus loosing the expertise it had before. A mere shadow of its previous self and mostly doing industry research to try and support itself. IMHO.
Jaahn
Recently 6 gas wells out of 19,000 in Queensland were tested by CSIRO were "randomly" put forward by the gas industry for testing for benchmarking environmental issues. All was ok!
Others have said this does not pass the pub test.
I tend to believe the latter.
Hydrogen has long been touted as the "fuel of the future" but that future never seems to arrive! Fifteen years ago there were hydrogen fuel cell busses on the streets of Perth, but it came to nowt.
https://www.pta.wa.gov.au/news/media-statements/hydrogen-fuel-cell-bus-trial-draws-to-a-close
I hope Hydrogen will still find a place in a cleaner energy future, but I suspect it will be a niche player in a diverse mix of alternative technologies.
-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 16th of July 2020 08:56:56 PM
Well it worked well in both diesel cars, except on very hot days - trying to fill the tank was difficult! One supplier in western QLD cooled his pump with hessian & water.
I have no idea how hydrogen will work under similar conditions! Politicians don't have a good track record, do they? Are they going to suggest we all live in southern states?
Yes, Hydrogen is the fuel of the future, the distant future.
Hydrogen is an easy fuel to make using excess solar and wind power and an easy fuel to compress, store and ship. Its energy density is much higher than petrol and diesel.
Cheers,
Peter
hi, the old assembly line at toyota's altona north melbourne's factory . is changing too a hydrogen factory. they probaly started work approx 2 years ago now there. many cars are parked there in the old car park daily.
Hi Peter
I respectfully disagree about hydrogen being an "easy fuel to compress, store and ship". That is the crux of the difficulties with hydrogen that everyone is working to overcome.
We do hope that it will be produced by excess wind and solar power.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 26th of July 2020 07:16:25 PM
The SA facility....
www.agig.com.au/pioneering-sa-hydrogen-facility
Calorific comparisons.
www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/facts-and-figures/heat-values-of-various-fuels.aspx
Cheers,
Peter
Peter
There is plenty of information on Hydrogen but it is swamped by the disinformation by a lot of people who are lobbying or are not practical or have blinkers.
Hydrogen cannot be liquified easily and needs excessive pressures or very low temperatures. Hydrogen is the smallest atom, and that cannot be 'fixed' and if kept as a gas in a steel pressure vessel under normal high pressures it just diffuses out over a period of some days or a month which leads to several serious problems. One you lose it at a serious rate, two it is extremely flamable around the tank area, three the hydrogen causes embrittlement of the metal vessel. Not easy stuff to work with at all.
Cheers Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 27th of July 2020 08:32:06 AM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 27th of July 2020 01:39:16 PM
Jaahn your a bit pessimistic about storage life. Many years ago in a lab I worked in we used compressed hydrogen in G sized steel cylinders for chemical analysis. These lasted well over 12 months with daily usage. The proposed transport will not be as compressed hydrogen but as liquid ammonia. The hydrogen will be extracted direct from the ammonia at its usage site then compressed into cylinders fuel tanks etc.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 27th of July 2020 07:26:12 PM
Hi Alan
I probably am pessimistic. I hope you did read the many pages of safety data sheets for bottled hydrogen.
From Wiki; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_tank
I give a small quote : U.S Department of Energy maintains a hydrogen safety best practices site with a lot of information about tanks and piping.[11] They dryly observe "Hydrogen is a very small molecule with low viscosity, and therefore prone to leakage.".
Note I am not anti hydrogen at all, but my reading over quite a few years leads me to think it will not be common in my life time. Even the Australian Hydrogen Future Plan gives it 30 years. I hope I am wrong and perhaps the breakthrough will be ammonia or metal hydride storage. But what would I know !
Jaahn
Hydrogen will not leak through a tank quick enough to be of any issue for the normal expected storage life of the fuel. There is no point storing hydrogen for extended periods. Too much money is tied up in the infrastructure to have it in effect sitting idle.
Hydrogen is the ideal fuel as back up for wind & solar. Just have plenty of wind & solar & fill in the gaps with hydrogen, water & batteries as well. Tidal energy if we can solve wear & maintenance issues.
Whether that can be mitagated within replacements -cost wise- was an issue for its general use.
OK for scientists, not for us phlebs, unfortunately