Just listening to ABC RN LNL, Bruce Shapiro saying that gun shops are an essential service & will stay open. Surprise surprise!
Mike Harding said
06:41 AM Apr 1, 2020
Unlike our police state of Victoria which yesterday banned all sales of firearms and ammunition - no doubt so the population may be more readily controlled.
Whenarewethere said
07:03 AM Apr 1, 2020
In Victoria people's weapon of choice unfortunately has been shifting to four wheels!
Gundog said
11:25 AM Apr 1, 2020
Pie in sky response from a crooked government, it's also a bit of stupid response responsible gun owners have sufficient ammunition on hand also guns, it's the black market trade he cannot control.
dogbox said
12:57 PM Apr 1, 2020
i'm of the thought why would gun owners need to buy more guns, ammo here in Australia with travel restrictions ect they can't travel to go shooting/hunting and i would guess that any competitions would be cancelled.
unless they were planning to on sell it on the black market??!!
-- Edited by dogbox on Wednesday 1st of April 2020 12:59:29 PM
Mike Harding said
01:53 PM Apr 1, 2020
dogbox wrote:
i'm of the thought why would gun owners need to buy more guns, ammo here in Australia with travel restrictions ect they can't travel to go shooting/hunting and i would guess that any competitions would be cancelled. unless they were planning to on sell it on the black market??!!
I'll assume you are not stupid but simply naive.
Each legally owned firearm is registered and required to be shown to police during the regular inspections of firearms and storage they perform - if I can not account for one of my firearms I will be in *BIG* trouble.
"Sell it on the black market ..." - for Goodness sake....
boab said
02:31 PM Apr 1, 2020
Mike Harding i think dog box would of been referring to selling ammo not so much guns but maybe you could educate the rest of us stupid people and explain why any one would need to buy a gun during this shut down
dogbox said
03:26 PM Apr 1, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
dogbox wrote:
i'm of the thought why would gun owners need to buy more guns, ammo here in Australia with travel restrictions ect they can't travel to go shooting/hunting and i would guess that any competitions would be cancelled. unless they were planning to on sell it on the black market??!!
I'll assume you are not stupid but simply naive.
Each legally owned firearm is registered and required to be shown to police during the regular inspections of firearms and storage they perform - if I can not account for one of my firearms I will be in *BIG* trouble.
"Sell it on the black market ..." - for Goodness sake....
i have been called worse, but if you could enlighten me on why ammo could not be on sold, i might not be so naive. the last time i bought ammo i can't remember seeing any serial numbers on the cartridges. i got rid of any fire arms i owned when it became to much of a hassel to own them.
for those who may not remember how easy it was buy firearms k-mart use to sell them
Mike Harding said
04:08 PM Apr 1, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:I'll assume you are not stupid but simply naive
I'm not sure I was correct with that statement.
Sarco Harris said
08:05 PM Apr 1, 2020
According to recent comments by both the Firearms industry and the SSAA, the most likely reason for the increase in Permit To Acquire applications (at least in Vic), was that with effect of today (1 Apr 20) all imported firearms and ammunition, due to the fall in the $AU are going up 15%.
As for ammunition, while not all but many shooters, particularly competition shooters, generally make their own ammunition. Why wouldn't criminals do the same, noting to purchase ammunition (and some of the components to make it), you must show a valid licence for firearms.
I also note that apparently the matter of closing down and restricting sales for dealers, is now going to be heading to court.
dogbox said
09:19 PM Apr 1, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:I'll assume you are not stupid but simply naive
I'm not sure I was correct with that statement.
thank you for expressing your doubt
dogbox said
09:46 PM Apr 1, 2020
Sarco Harris wrote:
According to recent comments by both the Firearms industry and the SSAA, the most likely reason for the increase in Permit To Acquire applications (at least in Vic), was that with effect of today (1 Apr 20) all imported firearms and ammunition, due to the fall in the $AU are going up 15%.
As for ammunition, while not all but many shooters, particularly competition shooters, generally make their own ammunition. Why wouldn't criminals do the same, noting to purchase ammunition (and some of the components to make it), you must show a valid licence for firearms.
I also note that apparently the matter of closing down and restricting sales for dealers, is now going to be heading to court.
as far as criminals loading their own ammunition it is most likely very few have had any firearms training by the number of HITS that are unsuccessful if the price goes up on the 1/04/2020 i think they may have missed out now where would people buying up firearms/ ammo use it in the foreseeable . if it was known that you had a large supply of gun/ammo would that not make you a target from undesirables ,most of the home invasion are as a result of people knowing that a particular location has something that other people want whether it is drugs ,cash ,valuables of some description guns/ammo can go on that list
maybe they are expecting a total breakdown of law and order maybe guns/ammo should go on the other list with toilet paper
back to you
landy said
09:58 PM Apr 1, 2020
With a lot of my friends who shoot competitively it is not unusual to buy ammunition 2500 to 5000 rounds at a time with the threat of a 15% increase they would of been keen to buy up for the year ahead.
The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (Victoria) Response to Temporary Changes to Firearm and Ammunition Regulations.
The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (Victoria) (SSAA Victoria) has stated its objection to the decision to halt the sale of firearms and ammunition for sporting and recreational purposes. Not only is the action not justified, it attacks the integrity and values of the Victorian public and law abiding, licensed firearm owners.
What the government has done sends a terrible message about fellow Victorians, said Jack Wegman, CEO, SSAA (Victoria). No credible evidence has been put forward to justify the decision to ban a legal product obtained in a lawful manner, by responsible people who have been carefully vetted by Victoria Police. This act makes absolutely no sense. It is based on some hypothetical situation that does not exist. Theres enough uncertainty in the general public because of COVID-19. We dont need the State Government to compound the issue, while damaging the reputation of law-abiding firearm owners.
The SSAA understands the decision made by the Victorian government is based on a recent spike in applications for Category A/B firearms licenses. However, this decision has not taken into consideration that application numbers always increase in the weeks leading to the official hunting seasons. This is not a new trend. So it should be no surprise that with the 2020 Hound Season, Hog Deer Season, Stubble Quail and Duck Season to begin shortly, those wishing to participate have submitted their applications.
Concurrently, ammunition and firearm sales also increase in the weeks leading up to the hunting season. Ammunition and firearms are expensive, so too the cost of proper storage facilities. Therefore, it makes financial sense to purchase ammunition and new equipment just before the start of the hunting season. Most firearms and ammunition are imported. With the drop in the Australian dollar future shipments are likely to be significantly more expensive. It makes perfect sense for people to purchase goods now given those factors.
It is nothing more than unfounded aspersion to suggest that Victorians are seeking to obtain a firearm license in order to stockpile ammunition because of the COVID-19 virus.
What is deeply upsetting to all registered sporting and recreational shooters are the comments made to media outlets implying that community safety is at risk, and that there is concern surrounding the possibility of domestic violence issues during these stressful times. These remarks are offensive to the character and maturity of licensed recreational and sporting shooters.
To obtain a Category A/B license, applicants have to undergo thorough checks and vetting procedures. Approval is not guaranteed and certainly not immediate. SSAA Victoria endorses these procedures, which is why the Association has legitimate concerns regarding this decision and the baseless assumptions used to make it. Furthermore, there has been no consultation with relevant industry associations, individuals or businesses, in order to obtain the facts or address any possible concerns.
To obtain a firearms licence all applicants must complete an approved firearms safety course. Currently, all firearms safety courses have been suspended due to the COVID-19 outbreak and will not resume until restrictions are lifted. New firearms applications will not be able to be made until that occurs. The only license applications that will be processed are for people who have already completed the safety course.
People should be worried that at a stroke of a pen, and without valid justification, the opportunity has been taken away from law-abiding citizens following a lawful process to obtain legal products, said Jack. People should ask themselves, Where is this going to end. Can people in Australia really be punished just for being suspected of something?
Whilst always supportive of the need to protect the health and wellbeing of Victorians, especially in this current period, SSAA Victoria will ask the State Government to reconsider this matter. These restrictions go far beyond anything necessary to prevent the spread of the COVID-19 virus. The Association calls on government to show some faith in the good character of Victorians, especially licensed sporting and recreational shooters who follow every measure of the law.
About SSAA Victoria The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (Victoria) was incorporated as a public company on October 1, 1973. We exist to promote the shooting sports and protect firearm owners' interests. With more than 40,000 members, SSAA Victoria is a leading body representing licensed firearm owners in Victoria. SSAA Victoria has more than a dozen branches and more than 30 sub-clubs and disciplines within the organisation.
-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 1st of April 2020 10:08:28 PM
-- Edited by landy on Thursday 2nd of April 2020 04:33:35 PM
dogbox said
10:37 AM Apr 2, 2020
in stating that the restrictions have nothing to do with the corona virus my thought was they where trying to minimize the chance any use of firearms in what could become a stressful time.
even with the effort required to obtain a gun licence some slip thru the cracks. recently a person held the police off in a domestic situation and only gave up when he ran out of ammo so not all gun owners are responsible or for that matter licensed
there is a sunset clause the restrictions end when the current situation is over
as i stated previously shooters can't go anywhere to use their ammo.
how many guns have been reported stolen in the last year?
landy said
04:57 PM Apr 2, 2020
True Dogbox there are in fact some unlicensed gun owners out there but these are in fact criminals just buy the fact of being in possession of a firearm while unlicensed. these are not the people who are being affected by these changes as without a license they could not have applied to buy a firearm or ammunition anyway. I also agree that the odd bad egg may as you say slip through the cracks though in my experience and I have been a shooter for many many years these are few and far between, more so these days with rigmarole and expense of holding a gun license. Also if these people have a license they probably already have a firearm and ammunition. May I take this chance to point out a lot permissions to purchase often do not equate to more firearms going into the community as shooters will often trade there used firearms into the dealer when updating to a latter model or flatter shooting caliber as with used cars, there is in fact in Victoria a limit on the number of guns you can keep on a premises without having an approved alarm system fitted. Just to finish off I don't understand why you would think at present shooters can't go any where to use their ammunition when one of the reasons given to leave the house is to get exercise. I personally can't think of any better exercise or stress relief than taking the shotgun and walking up a few bunny's (by your self of coarse)on a friends property and I am sure I am not the only one. or maybe or maybe they have clamped down on that now. I realize i may see this from a different side off the fence to some and don't mean to be confrontational but this treatment of law abiding shooters doe's get a bit tiresome after a while Landy.
-- Edited by landy on Thursday 2nd of April 2020 07:31:09 PM
i have no problem with shooters and they have probably become more responsible in recent times i don't see so many road signs full of holes as i use to.
i think the restrictions at the moment are more about avoiding a potential problem than anything else there are many business that are struggling at the moment . if their business has been affected they can apply for assistance like everyone else.
boab said
06:45 PM Apr 2, 2020
i love fishing but at the moment i cant go. suck it up do the right thing and with some luck we will get back to our hobbies sooner rather than later
landy said
07:27 PM Apr 2, 2020
Good news for you Boab, In the News this morning they announced fishing has been declared as passive exercise as long as social distancing is observed, now we can both go.
dogbox said
07:41 PM Apr 2, 2020
now legal to go on beach but only if you have a rod in your hand
landy said
08:00 PM Apr 2, 2020
Just reread that news story it appears it may only apply to N.S.W. Dam.
oldbloke said
09:26 PM Apr 7, 2020
dogbox wrote:
in stating that the restrictions have nothing to do with the corona virus my thought was they where trying to minimize the chance any use of firearms in what could become a stressful time. even with the effort required to obtain a gun licence some slip thru the cracks. recently a person held the police off in a domestic situation and only gave up when he ran out of ammo so not all gun owners are responsible or for that matter licensed there is a sunset clause the restrictions end when the current situation is over as i stated previously shooters can't go anywhere to use their ammo.
how many guns have been reported stolen in the last year?
So, what are you saying. They are worried about domestic violence? If thats the case close down every shop selling alcohol. Alcohol is involved in over 50% of DV incidents. Firearms close to 0%
dogbox said
07:18 AM Apr 8, 2020
oldbloke wrote:
dogbox wrote:
in stating that the restrictions have nothing to do with the corona virus my thought was they where trying to minimize the chance any use of firearms in what could become a stressful time. even with the effort required to obtain a gun licence some slip thru the cracks. recently a person held the police off in a domestic situation and only gave up when he ran out of ammo so not all gun owners are responsible or for that matter licensed there is a sunset clause the restrictions end when the current situation is over as i stated previously shooters can't go anywhere to use their ammo.
how many guns have been reported stolen in the last year?
So, what are you saying. They are worried about domestic violence? If thats the case close down every shop selling alcohol. Alcohol is involved in over 50% of DV incidents. Firearms close to 0%
the sale of alcohol was restricted but doesn't seem to be in short supply . due to confinement a lot of domestic situations and people with mental health issues will be put under a lot of stress, alcohol will no doubt be a factor.
landy said
10:17 PM Apr 8, 2020
dogbox wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
dogbox wrote:
in stating that the restrictions have nothing to do with the corona virus my thought was they where trying to minimize the chance any use of firearms in what could become a stressful time. even with the effort required to obtain a gun licence some slip thru the cracks. recently a person held the police off in a domestic situation and only gave up when he ran out of ammo so not all gun owners are responsible or for that matter licensed there is a sunset clause the restrictions end when the current situation is over as i stated previously shooters can't go anywhere to use their ammo.
how many guns have been reported stolen in the last year?
So, what are you saying. They are worried about domestic violence? If thats the case close down every shop selling alcohol. Alcohol is involved in over 50% of DV incidents. Firearms close to 0%
the sale of alcohol was restricted but doesn't seem to be in short supply . due to confinement a lot of domestic situations and people with mental health issues will be put under a lot of stress, alcohol will no doubt be a factor.
This is why I think sensible recreation outside the home should be allowed in my opinion Victoria in particular ( trying not to be political here maybe call it a topical coment instead ) has gone to far with some of the ridiculous fines that have been handed out to people that although technically may have been breaking the new restrictions. are acting well within the spirit of social distancing. Closing people up either in solitary or crowded situations with no pressure release can be more dangerous than the virus itself. lets have some common sense here al the way round. Landy
dogbox said
08:07 AM Apr 9, 2020
as the spread of the virus slows restrictions will will be lifted to keep the rate of infection to a level that can be serviced by the hospitals for those who need them, until the majority of the population has been exposed
common sense does not seem to be all that common in this day and age. a lot of people on this forum are in the higher risk level due to age or underlying health issued (some are just plain worn out) if the virus gets out of control we may not be here at the end
landy said
11:06 AM Apr 9, 2020
Dogbox I think we all understand the added risk to our age group and have enough common sense to take extra care, but there is no uniformity in our national approach and no common sense from our law enforcement in the way these rules are applied. I'm sure we all understand why restrictions are are needed at the moment.
-- Edited by landy on Thursday 9th of April 2020 11:30:42 AM
Just listening to ABC RN LNL, Bruce Shapiro saying that gun shops are an essential service & will stay open. Surprise surprise!
Unlike our police state of Victoria which yesterday banned all sales of firearms and ammunition - no doubt so the population may be more readily controlled.
In Victoria people's weapon of choice unfortunately has been shifting to four wheels!
with travel restrictions ect they can't travel to go shooting/hunting and i would guess that any competitions would be cancelled. unless they were planning to on sell it on the black market??!!
-- Edited by dogbox on Wednesday 1st of April 2020 12:59:29 PM
I'll assume you are not stupid but simply naive.
Each legally owned firearm is registered and required to be shown to police during the regular inspections of firearms and storage they perform - if I can not account for one of my firearms I will be in *BIG* trouble.
"Sell it on the black market ..." - for Goodness sake....
i have been called worse, but if you could enlighten me on why ammo could not be on sold, i might not be so naive. the last time i bought ammo i can't remember seeing any serial numbers on the cartridges.
i got rid of any fire arms i owned when it became to much of a hassel to own them.
for those who may not remember how easy it was buy firearms k-mart use to sell them
I'm not sure I was correct with that statement.
As for ammunition, while not all but many shooters, particularly competition shooters, generally make their own ammunition. Why wouldn't criminals do the same, noting to purchase ammunition (and some of the components to make it), you must show a valid licence for firearms.
I also note that apparently the matter of closing down and restricting sales for dealers, is now going to be heading to court.
thank you for expressing your doubt
as far as criminals loading their own ammunition it is most likely very few have had any firearms training by the number of HITS that are unsuccessful
if the price goes up on the 1/04/2020 i think they may have missed out now
where would people buying up firearms/ ammo use it in the foreseeable . if it was known that you had a large supply of gun/ammo would that not make you a target from undesirables ,most of the home invasion are as a result of people knowing that a particular location has something that other people want whether it is drugs ,cash ,valuables of some description guns/ammo can go on that list
maybe they are expecting a total breakdown of law and order
maybe guns/ammo should go on the other list with toilet paper
back to you
The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (Victoria) Response to Temporary Changes to Firearm and Ammunition Regulations.
The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (Victoria) (SSAA Victoria) has stated its objection to the decision to halt the sale of firearms and ammunition for sporting and recreational purposes. Not only is the action not justified, it attacks the integrity and values of the Victorian public and law abiding, licensed firearm owners.
What the government has done sends a terrible message about fellow Victorians, said Jack Wegman, CEO, SSAA (Victoria). No credible evidence has been put forward to justify the decision to ban a legal product obtained in a lawful manner, by responsible people who have been carefully vetted by Victoria Police. This act makes absolutely no sense. It is based on some hypothetical situation that does not exist. Theres enough uncertainty in the general public because of COVID-19. We dont need the State Government to compound the issue, while damaging the reputation of law-abiding firearm owners.
The SSAA understands the decision made by the Victorian government is based on a recent spike in applications for Category A/B firearms licenses. However, this decision has not taken into consideration that application numbers always increase in the weeks leading to the official hunting seasons. This is not a new trend. So it should be no surprise that with the 2020 Hound Season, Hog Deer Season, Stubble Quail and Duck Season to begin shortly, those wishing to participate have submitted their applications.
Concurrently, ammunition and firearm sales also increase in the weeks leading up to the hunting season. Ammunition and firearms are expensive, so too the cost of proper storage facilities. Therefore, it makes financial sense to purchase ammunition and new equipment just before the start of the hunting season. Most firearms and ammunition are imported. With the drop in the Australian dollar future shipments are likely to be significantly more expensive. It makes perfect sense for people to purchase goods now given those factors.
It is nothing more than unfounded aspersion to suggest that Victorians are seeking to obtain a firearm license in order to stockpile ammunition because of the COVID-19 virus.
What is deeply upsetting to all registered sporting and recreational shooters are the comments made to media outlets implying that community safety is at risk, and that there is concern surrounding the possibility of domestic violence issues during these stressful times. These remarks are offensive to the character and maturity of licensed recreational and sporting shooters.
To obtain a Category A/B license, applicants have to undergo thorough checks and vetting procedures. Approval is not guaranteed and certainly not immediate. SSAA Victoria endorses these procedures, which is why the Association has legitimate concerns regarding this decision and the baseless assumptions used to make it. Furthermore, there has been no consultation with relevant industry associations, individuals or businesses, in order to obtain the facts or address any possible concerns.
To obtain a firearms licence all applicants must complete an approved firearms safety course. Currently, all firearms safety courses have been suspended due to the COVID-19 outbreak and will not resume until restrictions are lifted. New firearms applications will not be able to be made until that occurs. The only license applications that will be processed are for people who have already completed the safety course.
People should be worried that at a stroke of a pen, and without valid justification, the opportunity has been taken away from law-abiding citizens following a lawful process to obtain legal products, said Jack. People should ask themselves, Where is this going to end. Can people in Australia really be punished just for being suspected of something?
Whilst always supportive of the need to protect the health and wellbeing of Victorians, especially in this current period, SSAA Victoria will ask the State Government to reconsider this matter. These restrictions go far beyond anything necessary to prevent the spread of the COVID-19 virus. The Association calls on government to show some faith in the good character of Victorians, especially licensed sporting and recreational shooters who follow every measure of the law.
About SSAA Victoria
The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (Victoria) was incorporated as a public company on October 1, 1973. We exist to promote the shooting sports and protect firearm owners' interests.
With more than 40,000 members, SSAA Victoria is a leading body representing licensed firearm owners in Victoria. SSAA Victoria has more than a dozen branches and more than 30 sub-clubs and disciplines within the organisation.
-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 1st of April 2020 10:08:28 PM
-- Edited by landy on Thursday 2nd of April 2020 04:33:35 PM
even with the effort required to obtain a gun licence some slip thru the cracks. recently a person held the police off in a domestic situation and only gave up when he ran out of ammo so not all gun owners are responsible or for that matter licensed
there is a sunset clause the restrictions end when the current situation is over
as i stated previously shooters can't go anywhere to use their ammo.
how many guns have been reported stolen in the last year?
-- Edited by landy on Thursday 2nd of April 2020 07:31:09 PM
i think the restrictions at the moment are more about avoiding a potential problem than anything else there are many business that are struggling at the moment . if their business has been affected they can apply for assistance like everyone else.
So, what are you saying. They are worried about domestic violence? If thats the case close down every shop selling alcohol. Alcohol is involved in over 50% of DV incidents. Firearms close to 0%
the sale of alcohol was restricted but doesn't seem to be in short supply .
due to confinement a lot of domestic situations and people with mental health issues will be put under a lot of stress, alcohol will no doubt be a factor.
common sense does not seem to be all that common in this day and age. a lot of people on this forum are in the higher risk level due to age or underlying health issued (some are just plain worn out) if the virus gets out of control we may not be here at the end
-- Edited by landy on Thursday 9th of April 2020 11:30:42 AM