My Mum always pointed out the burnt trees, towering above the present growth, as we went up the Black Spur and down the other side
JayDee said
06:32 PM Jan 14, 2020
It is almost impossible to be able to comprehend what happened back in 1939.
Firstly, the then population in the region.
Secondly, what would have been the fire fighting equipment that the people of the day would have at their disposal compared to today''s modern equipment.
Apple with apples this would have been far worse than any modern day bush fires.
And today's bush fires have people saying it is That two letter word C.C.....
As I have hinted before the only climate change I respect is the 4 seasons.
Spring, summer autumn and winter.
Jay&Dee
Mobi Condo said
08:31 AM Jan 15, 2020
Thanks for this post and the news clip. MOST useful data which leads me to another divergence of topic, but hopefully not to go off topic.
If any one can please assist, I recall a point in time maybe 10 years back when a news item showed the scientific world in weather etc. told us that old records were inaccurate and that from that point n time onward they would not be using " them" any more. "Them" being the old records and data collections as they were inaccurate.
Maybe if this is considered to have gone off topic, please forgive me and then could there be suggestions of how I can put it to a new topic with wording suitable for such.
Thanks
Phillipn said
08:46 AM Jan 15, 2020
Mobi Condo wrote:
Thanks for this post and the news clip. MOST useful data which leads me to another divergence of topic, but hopefully not to go off topic. If any one can please assist, I recall a point in time maybe 10 years back when a news item showed the scientific world in weather etc. told us that old records were inaccurate and that from that point n time onward they would not be using " them" any more. "Them" being the old records and data collections as they were inaccurate. Maybe if this is considered to have gone off topic, please forgive me and then could there be suggestions of how I can put it to a new topic with wording suitable for such. Thanks
The so called scientific people of this world do not let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Possum3 said
08:52 AM Jan 15, 2020
Mobi Condo wrote:
If any one can please assist, I recall a point in time maybe 10 years back when a news item showed the scientific world in weather etc. told us that old records were inaccurate and that from that point n time onward they would not be using " them" any more. "Them" being the old records and data collections as they were inaccurate.
Since Colonial Days most recording/s of weather has been done at the same locations, utilising the same barometers, thermometers and gauges - Remote properties, Post Office/Exchanges, Police Stations still forward there information to their State Dept of Meteorology where it is collated. Basic difference in modern meteorology is Radar, Satellites allowing better/faster communications, Political influence and Broadcasting biases.
Brenda and Alan said
12:03 AM Jan 16, 2020
Philipn if you know more about climate and how it has been changing since the industrial revolution about 150 years ago, please inform us of your insights, instead of pouring scorn on scientists who have studied what is happening to climate. Tell us about how your particular knowledge about climate is right and not just your wishful thinking. What are your qualifications for your contrary point of view.
Alan
Brenda and Alan said
12:11 AM Jan 16, 2020
What the hell does ONE event back in 1939 have to do with what is happening now all over this country. Get a life and wake up to yourselves, Climate change that you have been told about for years IS REAL and is happening in spite of your prejudices or opinions.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Thursday 16th of January 2020 12:14:03 AM
Phillipn said
09:49 AM Jan 16, 2020
Brenda and Alan wrote:
What the hell does ONE event back in 1939 have to do with what is happening now all over this country. Get a life and wake up to yourselves, Climate change that you have been told about for years IS REAL and is happening in spite of your prejudices or opinions.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Thursday 16th of January 2020 12:14:03 AM
Alan, you have taken my comment out of contents. You are like a sheep back in the mob, you are running but don`t know why, and don`t know where you are going and the leaders don`t either.
Over hundreds of years their have been fires, floods, droughts and high and low temperatures. It is recorded in our history.
So why are these so called experts dismissing these records? They don`t like the truth getting in the way of a good story.
They most likely don`t believe that Captain Cook discovered the east coast of Australia.
Cloudy said
09:44 PM Jan 16, 2020
@Phillipn
Records are not being dismissed; consistency of the recording method is the key to the (poorly reported) story.
Early temperature records, particularly in the 19c, were made using thermometers that were often poorly located. On walls of varying materials, in full sun, even inside buildings.The use of Stevenson Screens which was the preferred option was rather piecemeal at this time. Some sites used Glaisher Stands but the drawback with these was that if they weren't rotated during the day full sunlight would fall onto the thermometer thus giving a false high reading.
In the first decade of the the 20c, as a result of the work of the new nations's first Commonwealth Meteorologist, Henry Hunt, improved Stevenson Screens became the standard across Australia.
The reference by Mobi Condo above in his/her post that early records were considered inaccurate is correct. That is why 1910 is the "starting point" as the data collection methods were known to be consistent from that point on.
This explanation is rather meagre I know but a little time spent Googling Stevenson Screens will open up some good explanations. Also, look at the work done by Clement Wragge in Queensland during the 1880s who found the temperature records overall to be of little value. .
Phillipn said
10:31 PM Jan 16, 2020
Cloudy wrote:
@Phillipn
Records are not being dismissed; consistency of the recording method is the key to the (poorly reported) story.
Early temperature records, particularly in the 19c, were made using thermometers that were often poorly located. On walls of varying materials, in full sun, even inside buildings.The use of Stevenson Screens which was the preferred option was rather piecemeal at this time. Some sites used Glaisher Stands but the drawback with these was that if they weren't rotated during the day full sunlight would fall onto the thermometer thus giving a false high reading.
In the first decade of the the 20c, as a result of the work of the new nations's first Commonwealth Meteorologist, Henry Hunt, improved Stevenson Screens became the standard across Australia.
The reference by Mobi Condo above in his/her post that early records were considered inaccurate is correct. That is why 1910 is the "starting point" as the data collection methods were known to be consistent from that point on.
This explanation is rather meagre I know but a little time spent Googling Stevenson Screens will open up some good explanations. Also, look at the work done by Clement Wragge in Queensland during the 1880s who found the temperature records overall to be of little value. .
-- Edited by Phillipn on Thursday 16th of January 2020 10:32:03 PM
-- Edited by Phillipn on Thursday 16th of January 2020 10:33:37 PM
Records are not being dismissed; consistency of the recording method is the key to the (poorly reported) story.
Early temperature records, particularly in the 19c, were made using thermometers that were often poorly located. On walls of varying materials, in full sun, even inside buildings.The use of Stevenson Screens which was the preferred option was rather piecemeal at this time. Some sites used Glaisher Stands but the drawback with these was that if they weren't rotated during the day full sunlight would fall onto the thermometer thus giving a false high reading.
In the first decade of the the 20c, as a result of the work of the new nations's first Commonwealth Meteorologist, Henry Hunt, improved Stevenson Screens became the standard across Australia.
The reference by Mobi Condo above in his/her post that early records were considered inaccurate is correct. That is why 1910 is the "starting point" as the data collection methods were known to be consistent from that point on.
This explanation is rather meagre I know but a little time spent Googling Stevenson Screens will open up some good explanations. Also, look at the work done by Clement Wragge in Queensland during the 1880s who found the temperature records overall to be of little value. .
Ah! Thank you for a date of reference here - when Stevenson screen were introduced - that makes some sense. I do recall a more recent date than that though and am looking for any reference to that. Gee forums are very useful. my poor old brain is limited, coz I am just one, but a forum has lots of brains to source!
bgt said
11:38 AM Jan 17, 2020
If we accept that the old records were inaccurate then it would/could also mean the temperatures recorded were hotter than it really was. Or maybe, just maybe, they weren't as hot as they really were!!! So how can anyone say that the inaccurate devises used were always over and not always under? Or maybe equally under or over? Just saying.
Phillipn said
01:03 PM Jan 17, 2020
bgt wrote:
If we accept that the old records were inaccurate then it would/could also mean the temperatures recorded were hotter than it really was. Or maybe, just maybe, they weren't as hot as they really were!!! So how can anyone say that the inaccurate devises used were always over and not always under? Or maybe equally under or over? Just saying.
So all of the brains that dismiss old records think that thermometers were in the sun at night. And their were no deaths from the heat.
Just goes to show how far out of touch that these people are.
Kebbin said
03:57 PM Jan 17, 2020
With every post your confirming what we have known about the closed mind attitude since the conversation began many moons ago.
Cupie said
11:44 AM Jan 18, 2020
Cloudy wrote:
@Phillipn
Records are not being dismissed; consistency of the recording method is the key to the (poorly reported) story.
Early temperature records, particularly in the 19c, were made using thermometers that were often poorly located. On walls of varying materials, in full sun, even inside buildings.The use of Stevenson Screens which was the preferred option was rather piecemeal at this time. Some sites used Glaisher Stands but the drawback with these was that if they weren't rotated during the day full sunlight would fall onto the thermometer thus giving a false high reading.
In the first decade of the the 20c, as a result of the work of the new nations's first Commonwealth Meteorologist, Henry Hunt, improved Stevenson Screens became the standard across Australia.
The reference by Mobi Condo above in his/her post that early records were considered inaccurate is correct. That is why 1910 is the "starting point" as the data collection methods were known to be consistent from that point on.
This explanation is rather meagre I know but a little time spent Googling Stevenson Screens will open up some good explanations. Also, look at the work done by Clement Wragge in Queensland during the 1880s who found the temperature records overall to be of little value. .
I can testify first hand on how (in)accurate some of the weather records were.
As part of my job as a 21 year old Technician in Charge of a small one man station circa 1962, I was required to call in the daily readings of weather instruments housed in what I now believe was an early Stevenson Screen cabinet located in the front yard of my main Telephone exchange.
I can assure you that the readings were at best a good guess as they were taken at various times of the day if at all & recorded in the log book for calling in at the end of the week. Missed readings were a frequent occurrence & you were scolded if any recordings were absent.
I was not alone in putting this task towards the bottom of my list of important jobs. It was common practice in many larger stations for the job to be given to the most junior trainee, who would take the opportunity to sit in the shade & have a smoke and then copy a previous set of readings into the log.
I remember my Dad telling me about that day.
Aussie Paul.
It is almost impossible to be able to comprehend what happened back in 1939.
Firstly, the then population in the region.
Secondly, what would have been the fire fighting equipment that the people of the day would have at their disposal compared to today''s modern equipment.
Apple with apples this would have been far worse than any modern day bush fires.
And today's bush fires have people saying it is That two letter word C.C.....
As I have hinted before the only climate change I respect is the 4 seasons.
Spring, summer autumn and winter.
Jay&Dee
If any one can please assist, I recall a point in time maybe 10 years back when a news item showed the scientific world in weather etc. told us that old records were inaccurate and that from that point n time onward they would not be using " them" any more. "Them" being the old records and data collections as they were inaccurate.
Maybe if this is considered to have gone off topic, please forgive me and then could there be suggestions of how I can put it to a new topic with wording suitable for such.
Thanks
The so called scientific people of this world do not let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Since Colonial Days most recording/s of weather has been done at the same locations, utilising the same barometers, thermometers and gauges - Remote properties, Post Office/Exchanges, Police Stations still forward there information to their State Dept of Meteorology where it is collated. Basic difference in modern meteorology is Radar, Satellites allowing better/faster communications, Political influence and Broadcasting biases.
Philipn if you know more about climate and how it has been changing since the industrial revolution about 150 years ago, please inform us of your insights, instead of pouring scorn on scientists who have studied what is happening to climate. Tell us about how your particular knowledge about climate is right and not just your wishful thinking. What are your qualifications for your contrary point of view.
Alan
What the hell does ONE event back in 1939 have to do with what is happening now all over this country. Get a life and wake up to yourselves, Climate change that you have been told about for years IS REAL and is happening in spite of your prejudices or opinions.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Thursday 16th of January 2020 12:14:03 AM
Alan, you have taken my comment out of contents. You are like a sheep back in the mob, you are running but don`t know why, and don`t know where you are going and the leaders don`t either.
Over hundreds of years their have been fires, floods, droughts and high and low temperatures. It is recorded in our history.
So why are these so called experts dismissing these records? They don`t like the truth getting in the way of a good story.
They most likely don`t believe that Captain Cook discovered the east coast of Australia.
Records are not being dismissed; consistency of the recording method is the key to the (poorly reported) story.
Early temperature records, particularly in the 19c, were made using thermometers that were often poorly located. On walls of varying materials, in full sun, even inside buildings.The use of Stevenson Screens which was the preferred option was rather piecemeal at this time. Some sites used Glaisher Stands but the drawback with these was that if they weren't rotated during the day full sunlight would fall onto the thermometer thus giving a false high reading.
In the first decade of the the 20c, as a result of the work of the new nations's first Commonwealth Meteorologist, Henry Hunt, improved Stevenson Screens became the standard across Australia.
The reference by Mobi Condo above in his/her post that early records were considered inaccurate is correct. That is why 1910 is the "starting point" as the data collection methods were known to be consistent from that point on.
This explanation is rather meagre I know but a little time spent Googling Stevenson Screens will open up some good explanations. Also, look at the work done by Clement Wragge in Queensland during the 1880s who found the temperature records overall to be of little value. .
-- Edited by Phillipn on Thursday 16th of January 2020 10:32:03 PM
-- Edited by Phillipn on Thursday 16th of January 2020 10:33:37 PM
Ah! Thank you for a date of reference here - when Stevenson screen were introduced - that makes some sense. I do recall a more recent date than that though and am looking for any reference to that. Gee forums are very useful. my poor old brain is limited, coz I am just one, but a forum has lots of brains to source!
So all of the brains that dismiss old records think that thermometers were in the sun at night. And their were no deaths from the heat.
Just goes to show how far out of touch that these people are.
I can testify first hand on how (in)accurate some of the weather records were.
As part of my job as a 21 year old Technician in Charge of a small one man station circa 1962, I was required to call in the daily readings of weather instruments housed in what I now believe was an early Stevenson Screen cabinet located in the front yard of my main Telephone exchange.
I can assure you that the readings were at best a good guess as they were taken at various times of the day if at all & recorded in the log book for calling in at the end of the week. Missed readings were a frequent occurrence & you were scolded if any recordings were absent.
I was not alone in putting this task towards the bottom of my list of important jobs. It was common practice in many larger stations for the job to be given to the most junior trainee, who would take the opportunity to sit in the shade & have a smoke and then copy a previous set of readings into the log.