want to connect my current solar panel to a LEAD CRYSTAL BATTERY .. my current regulator settings are for AGM.. GEL .. LEAD ACID .
WHICH SETTING SHOULD I USE ? ON MY SOLAR REGULATOR
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:49 PM Sep 7, 2019
1. What are the battery manufacturer's charging recommendations?
2. What are the regulator charging details?
Impossible to advise unless you can offer some basic information on what you have.
Cheers,
Peter
goldenyears said
06:09 PM Sep 7, 2019
found this ... looks like the AGM setting
Betta Lead Crystal Batteries can be charged faster, perform better than an AGM deep cycle battery and have similar disharge characteristics to Lithium deep cycle batteries at a third of the price.....in most cases. In recent times we have had a lot of inquiries regarding charging a lead crystal battery. Leading brands such as Redarc can confirm their leading 12v BCDC battery charger is compatible with Lead Crystal on the A setting, the current AGM battery profile.
Bang for buck the Lead Crystal Battery represents great value. If you look at the cycle life versus the cost, it is a clear winner over Deep Cycle AGM Batteries. This amazing battery delivers remarkable cycle life (6000 cycles @ 20% and 3800 cycles @ 50% depth of discharge and 1400 cycles @ 80% depth of discharge)
What is a Betta Lead Crystal battery?
The unique Lead Crystal® battery consists of a number of special features including: a micro porous high absorbent mat (AGM), thick plates cast from high purity lead calcium selenium alloy (which ensures an extended life), and a SiO2 based electrolyte solution. During the charge / discharge cycles the electrolyte solidifies and forms a white crystalline powder. This eventually results in a safer, high performing and environmentally friendlier battery. The Lead Crystal® battery can be used as a substitute for most battery technologies in the lead category, such as lead acid, lead gel and AGM.
T1 Terry said
12:29 PM Sep 8, 2019
" the current AGM battery profile." If that is what the battery manufacture says then go with that. Look carefully for the recharging regime required to get a lead crystal battery to fully recharge, it isn't the same as an AGM or flooded cell battery. They need to be fully cycled a number of times to get the charge back into the battery and that is not how other chemistry battery work.
T1 Terry
Fester55 said
03:29 PM Sep 10, 2019
I'd never heard of lead crystal batteries until I came across this article. After a bit of digging I found this data sheet on charging. There's a "Special Note" link there.
Data sheets are an industry standard and contain all the relevant information relating to the battery. Charge voltages, charge currents, temperature compensations, low voltage set points, cycle performance and so forth. Betta Batteries Lead CrystalBatteries are amazing batteries that have many unique features but failing to charge the battery correctly will reduce the performance and capacity of the battery. THE BATTERIES ARE RESILLIANT, BUT THEY ARE NOT INDESTRUCTABLE.LEAD CRYSTALBATTERIES MUST BE CHARGED AT THE FOLLOWING CHARGE CURRENTSCNFJ & CNFT Range0.3C @C10 (or 30% of the C10 rate) EVFJ Range 0.2C @C10 (or 20% or the C10 rate) As an example a 6-CNFJ-100 would require a 30 Amp charger. Two 100s in parallel would require a 60 Amp charger. A 6-EVFJ-80 is 100AH @ the C10 rate. Therefore the 6-EVFJ-80 would require a 20 Amp charge. Two in parallel would require a 40 Amp charge current. Please just keep this in mind when designing your system or considering our batteries. Choosing the correct battery for the application and the correct charge current is critical to maintaining the batteries chemistry and capacity.
I'll have to keep this in mind when my current AGM's finally die.
T1 Terry said
01:43 PM Sep 11, 2019
That sort of rules out solar recharging doesn't it. 2 x 100Ah batteries in parallel requires 40 amps constant charge rate. That is a lot of solar and would need an oversized solar array to ensure a constant 40 amps was supplied for how ever long it took to return the batteries to 100% SOC. 700w for good weather so double that for winter and overcast conditions, forget about trying the recharge if it's heavily overcast or scattered rain.
To me, that doesn't sound like it would really suit RV use.
T1 Terry
Fester55 said
05:20 PM Sep 11, 2019
Terry, question for you. My solar panels definitely wouldn't do the job. As an example, if I were to buy a 200ah battery (and assuming 150amp discharge) that requires a 60A charger would a 1kva generator be up to the job? Or is this a job best left to a 240v supply? My knowledge of electrical matters is very basic which is why I ask.
Thanks.
T1 Terry said
11:21 AM Sep 12, 2019
Fester55 wrote:
Terry, question for you. My solar panels definitely wouldn't do the job. As an example, if I were to buy a 200ah battery (and assuming 150amp discharge) that requires a 60A charger would a 1kva generator be up to the job? Or is this a job best left to a 240v supply? My knowledge of electrical matters is very basic which is why I ask.
Thanks.
OK, end of the boost cycle will be either 14.4v or 14.8v, allow for voltage drop as there will be 60 amps flowing through the cables, best estimate the required voltage is 15v. 15v x 60a = 900w. Allow 10 % losses through the chargers and this brings it to 990w.
A 1kva generator is not necessarily 1000w, but the Honda 1 is an inverter generator so it can produce 1000w ...... but not continuously without overheating. The continuous output is 800w, the peak power required is 990w, but for how long is an unknown. Is the 60 amps continuous until all that has been drawn down is replaced, plus a bit for losses? Or is it 60 amps until the battery terminal voltage reaches 14.4v or 14.8v and then the current reduces to maintain that voltage until the current drops to what ever the manufacturer specifies as the end of charge.
Sorry, not a definite yes or no answer because there are quite a few variables, but I'd say it would be running at the limits.
Something about the usage you estimated has me concerned though, 150Ah out of a 200Ah lead crystal battery will result in a short cycle life. They may be better able to handle deep discharges than an AGM battery, but that isn't saying that the deep discharges won't shorten the cycle life. You are looking for 75% of the battery capacity every day so relying on getting back to 100% SOC every day ready for the next day. Maybe I've read that wrong and yo were planning the pull the battery down to 25% SOC before recharging and that might be 2 or 3 days use. The cycle life would be longer then but keep in mind, just about all lead acid type batteries use 60% of the original capacity still available from the battery when fully charged as the end of cycle life and you are asking for 75% and I expect you still want that at a minimum of 12v. No lead acid chemistry battery can do that, full discharged is around the 10v mark under load, the 50% mark is around 11.8v under load. This means even from new you can't have 75% of the capacity and still maintain 12v under load. Only lithium chemistry battery can do that at the moment so until another amazing chemical compound battery hits the market (not a miniature version in a lab) you will need either 1/3 more battery capacity or start the recharging a lot earlier, or change to lithium batteries and avoid all the hassles the lead crystal battery design creates.
T1 Terry
Fester55 said
10:55 PM Sep 13, 2019
Terry, thanks for your detailed and informative reply. Looks like lithium is the way to go.
Need a bit of help folks ..
want to connect my current solar panel to a LEAD CRYSTAL BATTERY .. my current regulator settings are for AGM.. GEL .. LEAD ACID .
WHICH SETTING SHOULD I USE ? ON MY SOLAR REGULATOR
2. What are the regulator charging details?
Impossible to advise unless you can offer some basic information on what you have.
Cheers,
Peter
found this ... looks like the AGM setting
Betta Lead Crystal Batteries can be charged faster, perform better than an AGM deep cycle battery and have similar disharge characteristics to Lithium deep cycle batteries at a third of the price.....in most cases. In recent times we have had a lot of inquiries regarding charging a lead crystal battery. Leading brands such as Redarc can confirm their leading 12v BCDC battery charger is compatible with Lead Crystal on the A setting, the current AGM battery profile.
Bang for buck the Lead Crystal Battery represents great value. If you look at the cycle life versus the cost, it is a clear winner over Deep Cycle AGM Batteries. This amazing battery delivers remarkable cycle life (6000 cycles @ 20% and 3800 cycles @ 50% depth of discharge and 1400 cycles @ 80% depth of discharge)
What is a Betta Lead Crystal battery?
The unique Lead Crystal® battery consists of a number of special features including: a micro porous high absorbent mat (AGM), thick plates cast from high purity lead calcium selenium alloy (which ensures an extended life), and a SiO2 based electrolyte solution. During the charge / discharge cycles the electrolyte solidifies and forms a white crystalline powder. This eventually results in a safer, high performing and environmentally friendlier battery. The Lead Crystal® battery can be used as a substitute for most battery technologies in the lead category, such as lead acid, lead gel and AGM.
T1 Terry
www.alphaenergy.com.au/Products/Lead-Crystal-Batteries
Here's a copy and paste:
Data sheets are an industry standard and contain all the relevant information relating to the battery. Charge voltages, charge currents, temperature compensations, low voltage set points, cycle performance and so forth. Betta Batteries Lead CrystalBatteries are amazing batteries that have many unique features but failing to charge the battery correctly will reduce the performance and capacity of the battery. THE BATTERIES ARE RESILLIANT, BUT THEY ARE NOT INDESTRUCTABLE.LEAD CRYSTALBATTERIES MUST BE CHARGED AT THE FOLLOWING CHARGE CURRENTSCNFJ & CNFT Range0.3C @C10 (or 30% of the C10 rate) EVFJ Range 0.2C @C10 (or 20% or the C10 rate) As an example a 6-CNFJ-100 would require a 30 Amp charger. Two 100s in parallel would require a 60 Amp charger. A 6-EVFJ-80 is 100AH @ the C10 rate. Therefore the 6-EVFJ-80 would require a 20 Amp charge. Two in parallel would require a 40 Amp charge current. Please just keep this in mind when designing your system or considering our batteries. Choosing the correct battery for the application and the correct charge current is critical to maintaining the batteries chemistry and capacity.
I'll have to keep this in mind when my current AGM's finally die.
To me, that doesn't sound like it would really suit RV use.
T1 Terry
Thanks.
OK, end of the boost cycle will be either 14.4v or 14.8v, allow for voltage drop as there will be 60 amps flowing through the cables, best estimate the required voltage is 15v. 15v x 60a = 900w. Allow 10 % losses through the chargers and this brings it to 990w.
A 1kva generator is not necessarily 1000w, but the Honda 1 is an inverter generator so it can produce 1000w ...... but not continuously without overheating. The continuous output is 800w, the peak power required is 990w, but for how long is an unknown. Is the 60 amps continuous until all that has been drawn down is replaced, plus a bit for losses? Or is it 60 amps until the battery terminal voltage reaches 14.4v or 14.8v and then the current reduces to maintain that voltage until the current drops to what ever the manufacturer specifies as the end of charge.
Sorry, not a definite yes or no answer because there are quite a few variables, but I'd say it would be running at the limits.
Something about the usage you estimated has me concerned though, 150Ah out of a 200Ah lead crystal battery will result in a short cycle life. They may be better able to handle deep discharges than an AGM battery, but that isn't saying that the deep discharges won't shorten the cycle life. You are looking for 75% of the battery capacity every day so relying on getting back to 100% SOC every day ready for the next day. Maybe I've read that wrong and yo were planning the pull the battery down to 25% SOC before recharging and that might be 2 or 3 days use. The cycle life would be longer then but keep in mind, just about all lead acid type batteries use 60% of the original capacity still available from the battery when fully charged as the end of cycle life and you are asking for 75% and I expect you still want that at a minimum of 12v. No lead acid chemistry battery can do that, full discharged is around the 10v mark under load, the 50% mark is around 11.8v under load. This means even from new you can't have 75% of the capacity and still maintain 12v under load. Only lithium chemistry battery can do that at the moment so until another amazing chemical compound battery hits the market (not a miniature version in a lab) you will need either 1/3 more battery capacity or start the recharging a lot earlier, or change to lithium batteries and avoid all the hassles the lead crystal battery design creates.
T1 Terry