we just wondered what its like to tow and to drive generally
cheers Jill
Knight said
01:15 PM Sep 1, 2019
"Sadly there was no chance to do a towing review this time around, but if you're planning on hauling a horse float or pulling a big boat, you'll be happy to learn all models come fitted with a tow bar as standard.
Towing capability tops out at 4.5 tonnes (braked) for both Express and Laramie models when fitted with a 70mm towball. The Laramie can be had with a higher axle ratio (3.21 compared with 3.92) that reduces the towing capacity to 3.5 tonnes (with a 50mm towball), but also positively affects the vehicle's fuel-consumption rating.
The tub load capacity for the Express model is rated at 845 kilograms, while the Laramie's payload is rated at 800kg - not as much as some of the smaller competitors in the ute segment, but more often than not if you're buying a Ram truck you're more focused on towing than carrying big weight.
The gross vehicle mass (GVM) or gross vehicle weight (GVW) for both models is 3450kg. Gross combination mass (GCM) rating for versions with the 3.92 rear axle is 7237kg, while the 3.21 rear axle model is rated at 6261kg. So make sure you do the maths before you go hooking up a 4.5-tonne trailer - there's not a lot of payload remaining.
Be sure to look at our Ram 1500 problems page for any concerns around automatic transmission problems/transmission issues, engine, clutch or suspension issues, or diesel problems (hey, they might crop up in the future)."
There are two differential ratio choices for the Laramie, which affects towing capacity. With the shorter, 3.92:1 ratio diffs, the 1500 Laramie has a 4500kg towing capacity. With the 3.21:1 ratio final drive ratio, the towing capacity is down 1000kg, at 3500kg. The Express, available with the 3.92:1 only, has a maximum 4500kg towing capacity.
Both towing capacities allow 10 per cent maximum towball download, making it 450kg for the 4500kg-capacity Express/Laramie and 350kg for the 3500kg-capacity Laramie.
Payload pain
While the 4500kg towing capacity puts the Laramie a solid 1000kg above the dual cab utes such as Ranger, it comes at a cost when it comes to carrying gear in or on the RAM.
To not exceed the RAMs 7237kg Gross Combination Mass (the maximum legal weight of the RAM and trailer combined, as it stands on the road with all payload, including occupants) while towing its maximum permitted 4500kg, youre allowed only 87kg payload in the RAM.
-- Edited by Knight on Sunday 1st of September 2019 01:30:00 PM
yobarr said
02:04 PM Sep 1, 2019
Jillie7 wrote:
Hi does anyone use a Dodge Ram to tow their van?
we just wondered what its like to tow and to drive generally
cheers Jill
Hi Jill....you have not stated what size Dodge Ram you are asking about.However,if you are considering a Dodge Ram 1500 you need to be aware that there is no way that you can tow more than 3000kg ATM if the trailer is a PIG trailer.(Van)....NO WAY. Do not believe any of the rubbish in the adverts,or from the salesman.The only way that a heavier trailer can be towed is if the trailer is a DOG trailer,which is a trailer with a steerable front axle and very little towbar weight.(20kg ....simplified description). The 1500 has a rear axle limit of a miserable 1770kg,which is less than that of the popular twin-cab lightweights.Be very careful.Please keep us in the picture before you part with any cash,and feel free to PM me if you would like help.Good luck.Cheers
PM sent to you....
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 1st of September 2019 02:14:14 PM
Jillie7 said
03:22 PM Sep 1, 2019
We are looking at the Laramie or longhorn, we were told that the towing capacity is 4.5 ton... is that not correct cheers
yobarr said
03:31 PM Sep 1, 2019
Jillie7 wrote:
We are looking at the Laramie or longhorn, we were told that the towing capacity is 4.5 ton... is that not correct cheers
NO NO NO....not a snowflakes chance in hell of towing much over 3000kg.FACT. Please respond to my PM (Private message).You can access the message by clicking on your user name,in the top right corner of this page.This will take you to your mailbox,and you simply reply to the message I have sent already.Cheers.
Jillie7 said
03:35 PM Sep 1, 2019
Really!!!
Jillie7 said
03:37 PM Sep 1, 2019
We were told that the towing capacity is 4.5 for the Laramie or longhorn
Jillie7 said
03:38 PM Sep 1, 2019
Sorry I posted twice
yobarr said
03:42 PM Sep 1, 2019
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 1st of September 2019 06:02:47 PM
Noelpolar said
09:28 AM Sep 2, 2019
The rear axle weight rating is a issue if hooking up a largish van and wanting to carry much in the tub.... do yourself a favour and look into this... it's mostly what Yobar is going on about.
Rod Mac said
12:50 PM Sep 2, 2019
Yes good advice from responders, and please be very careful and check out the vehicle thoroughly and look at many reviews re towing with them, I don't believe they are as good they are cracked up to be in regards to towing weights and weight carrying at the same time.
What also does concern me is that in the future when these Dodge Ram 1500 come up on the second hand market you are going to get people buying them(and salesmen selling them) with absolutely no idea of the differences in towing capacity with the different diff ratios, as I see it that is a recipe for trouble.
yobarr said
05:45 PM Sep 2, 2019
Noelpolar wrote:
The rear axle weight rating is a issue if hooking up a largish van and wanting to carry much in the tub.... do yourself a favour and look into this... it's mostly what Yobar is going on about.
Thanks Noel....sometimes I feel that I am flogging a dead horse,as some people do not like to hear facts that burst their bubble! The Dodge Ram 1500 has over 1000kg rear axle weight at tare.A towball weight of 350kg transfers around 500kg (+/-) to the rear axle of the car, Add another 100kg for fuel,and already we are up to 1600kg.....no passengers,no luggage and no hope! And you will never get to your 3450kg because a 350kg towball weight takes about 150kg off the front axle of the car,and transfers it to the rear axle. (Think levers) If you actually want to sit in the car (to drive it!) and carry anything in the tray,the biggest van you can safely,and legally tow,with the generally accepted 10% towball weight,is a van with an ATM of no more than 3000kg. Look elsewhere. A Ranger,(for example) can legally and safely tow a van with up to about 3100kg ATM,and is a lot cheaper.Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 2nd of September 2019 07:18:02 PM
Greg 1 said
08:59 PM Sep 2, 2019
I agree. Don't believe the sales bs. The dual cabs claiming 3500kgs can't do that either in any practical sense. As stated the Ranger which I have one, claims 3500kgs, but if you do the sums about 3100kgs is it unless it has no load no accessories half a tank of fuel and a starving refugee driving it. Which isn't practical although technically it can do it.
.
Jillie7 said
06:47 AM Sep 3, 2019
Thankyou for your responses and info. Its a minefield. We will continue to research it. Cheers
yobarr said
07:21 AM Sep 3, 2019
Jillie7 wrote:
Thankyou for your responses and info. Its a minefield. We will continue to research it. Cheers
Hi Jill....might I respectfully suggest that it is pointless continuing your research if you want to tow more than 3000kg.The Dodge Ram 1500 certainly is a big,beautiful and powerful vehicle,but do not let your wish to own one,or the prevarification of the salesman,lure you into making a decision that you later will regret.If you wish to tow more than 3000kg as a PIG trailer,you will be overloaded,unsafe,and uninsured.Most salesmen have absolutely no understanding of weights,and those that do will certainly not do anything that could jeopardise a sale,and adversely affect their income.Recently I was at a Dodge dealer,being nosey,and I struck up conversation with a chap who advised that he had just bought the very car I was sitting in,having just traded his LC200.After I spent time explaining the folly of this decision,he cancelled his order and drove away in his Cruiser!Let me tell you,he and I were the only two people in the dealership that were happy! Anybody who tells you that that vehicle can tow much more than 3000kg as a PIG trailer is either ignorant of facts,or is a liar.FACT....but good luck with your search.What is wrong with a Ranger,Colorado,D-Max etc,or you could go the whole hog and get an LC79,which has a 2300kg rear axle from new,a massive 530kg MORE than the Dodge Ram 1500.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 3rd of September 2019 09:40:32 AM
Bobdown said
01:32 PM Sep 3, 2019
yobarr wrote:
Jillie7 wrote:
We are looking at the Laramie or longhorn, we were told that the towing capacity is 4.5 ton... is that not correct cheers
NO NO NO....not a snowflakes chance in hell of towing much over 3000kg.FACT. Please respond to my PM (Private message).You can access the message by clicking on your user name,in the top right corner of this page.This will take you to your mailbox,and you simply reply to the message I have sent already.Cheers.
I read your posts with interest Yobarr, but am confused as to why the dealers can say it can tow x amount, when it can't.
I have a LC200 and it is advertised as being capable of 3500 kg, my van is 3200 kg ATM, and it feels safe as houses, has the power and weight to tow comfortably. Most caravan writers call Cruisers legendary and top of the range for towing.
Dodge Ram and Silverados claim they can tow 4500 kg, surely they can tow 3500 kg, if not what can tow 3 +1/2 tonnes as there are plenty of vans around that weight.
I would not feel as safe with a dual cab ute, too light for my van.
I don't disagree with your claims, just trying to come to terms with them.
Cheers Bob
boab said
03:33 PM Sep 3, 2019
your a brave man bobdown owning up to using a 200 series to tow a van that size
Greg 1 said
04:41 PM Sep 3, 2019
Just doing a quick rough check of the math I would say a lc200 series would be quite capable of towing 3200kgs comfortably.
yobarr said
04:43 PM Sep 3, 2019
8Bobdown wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Jillie7 wrote:
We are looking at the Laramie or longhorn, we were told that the towing capacity is 4.5 ton... is that not correct cheers
NO NO NO....not a snowflakes chance in hell of towing much over 3000kg.FACT. Please respond to my PM (Private message).You can access the message by clicking on your user name,in the top right corner of this page.This will take you to your mailbox,and you simply reply to the message I have sent already.Cheers.
I read your posts with interest Yobarr, but am confused as to why the dealers can say it can tow x amount, when it can't.I have a LC200 and it is advertised as being capable of 3500 kg, my van is 3200 kg ATM, and it feels safe as houses, has the power and weight to tow comfortably. Most caravan writers call Cruisers legendary and top of the range for towing.Dodge Ram and Silverados claim they can tow 4500 kg, surely they can tow 3500 kg, if not what can tow 3 +1/2 tonnes as there are plenty of vans around that weight.I would not feel as safe with a dual cab ute, too light for my van.I don't disagree with your claims, just trying to come to terms with them..Cheers Bob
Hi Bob....thanks for your questions.I will first address your question about the Dodge Ram 1500,and later I will explain why you cannot tow a van with an ATM above 3000kg with an LC200,if you wish to carry anything in the car.The major problem that the Dodge Ram 1500 has is that its rear axle is rated at a miserable 1770kg,well below that on many of the popular twin-cabs that are rated to tow 3500kg.Yeah,right.Using the Ram as an example,the rear axle,at tare weight,is over 1000kg.A 350kg ball weight adds around 500kg to the rear axle.(Think levers)Then you add 100kg for fuel,and already you are up to 1600kg on that axle.No passengers,no luggage,no hope. The chances of it legally towing a 4500kg pig trailer (caravan) are zero,zilch,nil,nada. The only way that that car can tow anything over about 3000kgs ATM is if the trailer is a dog trailer which is a trailer with two (or more) axles,and a steerable front axle with minimal (10kg?) weight on the hitch point.(Towball if you like).This is how the 4500kg towing capacity is justified if ever anybody questions that ability.Big,comfortable and powerful that car may be,but not a snowflakes chance in hell of towing 4500kg as a pig trailer. Now for the pain,as the same thing applies to your LC200 which has a rear axle capacity of only 1950kg.Tare weight is around 2750kg (+/-) but GVM is only 3350kg.If you hook your 3200kg van to the car,with 10% towball weight,immediately you are up to 3070kg......still no fuel,no passengers (or driver) no luggage,and no beer.You instantly are overloaded on your cars rear axle as at least 150kg has been transferred from the front axle to the rear axle.(Think levers).The experts then advise that a WDH be used,but all that does is add even more weight to your cars rear axle,as well as increasing your TBO (towball overhang, or distance from rear axle to hitch point). This means that even more weight is transferred from the front axle to the rear.The much-adored McHitch multiplies that weight transfer even further! When the WDH is tensioned in an effort to put some weight back onto the front axle of the car,some weight is indeed taken off the rear axle of the car,and put back onto the front,but there also is weight transferred to the vans axle group,putting you over your ATM (and GTM?) so you are overweight,illegal and uninsured.Many owners of LC200s spend thousands of dollars upgrading their GVM to 3800kg (or is it 3850kg?),but this is a road to nowhere as rear axle capacity increases by a miserable 50kg to 2000kg.This is great if you simply want to carry more stuff in your car,but virtually useless to you if you wish to tow a heavy van,as always you will be overloaded on your lightweight rear axle.If you would like more info,please PM me and I will try to help.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 3rd of September 2019 05:55:57 PM
HandyWalter said
05:49 PM Sep 3, 2019
These are the figures for a LC200. They are not a great tow tug. D4 or D5 Landrover or a Range Rover leave them for dead both in payload and fuel economy. And they are also far more comfortable.
Make/Model LC200 GXL V8 Max towing rating 3,500 Kg TARE 2,612 Kg Plus TBW 350 Kg Fuel 138 Kg 2 Passengers 150 Kg bullbar 100 Kg Mimimum GVM 3,350 Kg GVM 3,350 Kg Mandated GCM 6,850 Kg remaining payload 0 Kg GCM = Minimum GVM + Van weight result 0
Realistically a LC 200 cannot tow 3500kg unless you dont have a bullbar and total passenger weight with that in mind 250Kg. Thats basically 2 adults and 2 kids and nothing else in the car.
-- Edited by HandyWalter on Tuesday 3rd of September 2019 05:56:24 PM
yobarr said
06:22 PM Sep 3, 2019
HandyWalter wrote:
These are the figures for a LC200. They are not a great tow tug. D4 or D5 Landrover or a Range Rover leave them for dead both in payload and fuel economy. And they are also far more comfortable. Make/Model LC200 GXL V8 Max towing rating 3,500 Kg TARE 2,612 Kg Plus TBW 350 Kg Fuel 138 Kg 2 Passengers 150 Kg bullbar 100 Kg Mimimum GVM 3,350 Kg GVM 3,350 Kg Mandated GCM 6,850 Kg remaining payload 0 Kg GCM = Minimum GVM + Van weight result 0 Realistically a LC 200 cannot tow 3500kg unless you dont have a bullbar and total passenger weight with that in mind 250Kg. Thats basically 2 adults and 2 kids and nothing else in the car.
-- Edited by HandyWalter on Tuesday 3rd of September 2019 05:56:24 PM
Walter...interesting post,but the 1950kg rear axle capacity means an LC200 can never tow a 3500kg van,assuming 10% towball weight,unless the fuel tank is empty,there is no luggage,and the driver is good friends with Jenny Craig.And you will never get to the 3350kg GVM because a 350kg towball weight takes much more than 150kg off the front axle......up to 180kg, depending on the TBO that varies with the use of a WDH and/or a McHitch.Overrated in the extreme,I am afraid.Cheers
Bobdown said
08:53 PM Sep 3, 2019
So who tows over 3000 kg and what with, is anyone legal?
yobarr said
09:07 PM Sep 3, 2019
Bobdown wrote:
So who tows over 3000 kg and what with, is anyone legal?
There are a few vehicles out there that can legally and safely tow 3000kg,and sometimes a little more.A Ranger,for example,has 6000kg GCM and 3200kg GVM.If you hook up a 3100kg ATM van,with 10% towball weight,you have van with weight on wheels {GTM}of 2800kg behind a car with weight on wheels of 3200kg (including the 300kg ball weight} All legal,and all safe,with the car being over 10% heavier than the van.Just an example.If you upgrade a DMax,you can run 2150kg on the rear axle,so that is another good option.Or you could buy an LC79 and have a factory rear axle rating of 2300kg,although you would have to use a clutch as there is no factory auto.Cheers
HandyWalter said
07:52 AM Sep 4, 2019
Bobdown wrote:
So who tows over 3000 kg and what with, is anyone legal?
As I said A Landrover D4 or D5 (now called New Discovery) and a Range Rover Sport. All will tow 3.5T. Expensive yes. Comfortable yes. Fuel economy better than just about all mentioned here. Power to get up hills with ease yes. And I dare say although yet to be released the new Landrover Defender will probably be in the same league. Other than anything else I guess an Iveco Daily might also be able to tow 3.5T.
Knight said
08:09 AM Sep 4, 2019
Why is 3,500 kg an issue for the majority of people using caravans when most tow lighter caravans?
Even semi-offload designs with all convenience such as en-suite can be purchased that are under 2,500 kg, single axle under 2,000 kg.
yobarr said
08:29 AM Sep 4, 2019
Knight wrote:
Why is 3,500 kg an issue for the majority of people using caravans when most tow lighter caravans? Even semi-offload designs with all convenience such as en-suite can be purchased that are under 2,500 kg, single axle under 2,000 kg.
Hi Dennis...My ATM is 1540kg more than my plated tare,and I need every bit of it,with 420 litres water for starters....Cheers
yobarr said
09:05 AM Sep 4, 2019
HandyWalter wrote:
Bobdown wrote:
So who tows over 3000 kg and what with, is anyone legal?
As I said A Landrover D4 or D5 (now called New Discovery) and a Range Rover Sport. All will tow 3.5T. Expensive yes. Comfortable yes. Fuel economy better than just about all mentioned here. Power to get up hills with ease yes. And I dare say although yet to be released the new Landrover Defender will probably be in the same league. Other than anything else I guess an Iveco Daily might also be able to tow 3.5T.
Hi Walter....whilst these are no doubt lovely vehicles,they cannot safely tow a 3500kg van,assuming 10% ball weight.First problem is the rear axle capacity,which seems to vary from 1775kg to 1900kg,both weights being even less than that of an LC200.Next is their short wheelbase,which seems to vary from 2740mm to 2885mm,although I did find one model with about 2930mm? The shorter the wheelbase,the more likely the car is to be affected by the van,and the more weight is taken from the front axle and transferred to the rear axle of the car.And the fuel tanks seem to be more suited for a trip around town than any sort of distance travel.Adding a fuel tank to increase range would only exacerbate the rear axle weight issues.The one thing in their favour is that,if you were to hook up a 3500kg van,the cars weight on wheels (GVM) would be slightly more than the vans weight on wheels (GTM).....but 3500kg? Not likely!Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 4th of September 2019 09:46:43 AM
HandyWalter said
10:33 AM Sep 4, 2019
Yobarr
I am unsure of how you get weight figures on axles with the car as it stands. I cannot see anything that says the car weighs XXX on the rear axles as it stands. So not sure why you think the rear end can/cannot take the tow ball weight. But I stand corrected if you can provide such figures. Also the LR have air bag suspension with cross axle and front to rear leveling so weight gets transferred by the cars cpu and varies as soon as you hook up and as you drive along. As soon as my car feels the load of my 2.6t van it raises the rear end and lowers the front to compensate. Not sure what its doing but I am told it is covering the weight, and distributing it I guess much like a WDH does, which LR says not to put on their cars. And as for the pissy fuel tank. When I get 14lphk towing and 9lphk, not towing compared to a LC that gets at best 22 and 14 (yes I have a friend who goes with me on some of my trips) its no wonder they need a 130ltr tank!. Distances per tank are almost identical but my saving is 40+ litres of fuel cost! My weight figures are total for the cars and as such the LC is on the limit whereas the LR are not. Not defending the RAM but if they cannot tow 3.5T then why doesnt some one sue them ie ACCC with false advertising? If its as easy to prove as you say then it should be a simple matter to raise this with the suitable authorities.
Eaglemax said
11:02 AM Sep 4, 2019
HandyWalter wrote:
Yobarr
I am unsure of how you get weight figures on axles with the car as it stands. I cannot see anything that says the car weighs XXX on the rear axles as it stands. So not sure why you think the rear end can/cannot take the tow ball weight. But I stand corrected if you can provide such figures. Also the LR have air bag suspension with cross axle and front to rear leveling so weight gets transferred by the cars cpu and varies as soon as you hook up and as you drive along. As soon as my car feels the load of my 2.6t van it raises the rear end and lowers the front to compensate. Not sure what its doing but I am told it is covering the weight, and distributing it I guess much like a WDH does, which LR says not to put on their cars. And as for the pissy fuel tank. When I get 14lphk towing and 9lphk, not towing compared to a LC that gets at best 22 and 14 (yes I have a friend who goes with me on some of my trips) its no wonder they need a 130ltr tank!. Distances per tank are almost identical but my saving is 40+ litres of fuel cost! My weight figures are total for the cars and as such the LC is on the limit whereas the LR are not. Not defending the RAM but if they cannot tow 3.5T then why doesnt some one sue them ie ACCC with false advertising? If its as easy to prove as you say then it should be a simple matter to raise this with the suitable authorities.
HW, just an observation " Not sure what its doing but I am told it is covering the weight, and distributing it I guess much like a WDH does,...."
I would assume that the weight doesn't go anywhere. That air system would be purely levelling of the tow vehicle. WDH forces down weight on the front axle and lessens down weight to the rear axle....quite different. I stand corrected.
Hi does anyone use a Dodge Ram to tow their van?
we just wondered what its like to tow and to drive generally
cheers Jill
"Sadly there was no chance to do a towing review this time around, but if you're planning on hauling a horse float or pulling a big boat, you'll be happy to learn all models come fitted with a tow bar as standard.
Towing capability tops out at 4.5 tonnes (braked) for both Express and Laramie models when fitted with a 70mm towball. The Laramie can be had with a higher axle ratio (3.21 compared with 3.92) that reduces the towing capacity to 3.5 tonnes (with a 50mm towball), but also positively affects the vehicle's fuel-consumption rating.
The tub load capacity for the Express model is rated at 845 kilograms, while the Laramie's payload is rated at 800kg - not as much as some of the smaller competitors in the ute segment, but more often than not if you're buying a Ram truck you're more focused on towing than carrying big weight.
The gross vehicle mass (GVM) or gross vehicle weight (GVW) for both models is 3450kg. Gross combination mass (GCM) rating for versions with the 3.92 rear axle is 7237kg, while the 3.21 rear axle model is rated at 6261kg. So make sure you do the maths before you go hooking up a 4.5-tonne trailer - there's not a lot of payload remaining.
Be sure to look at our Ram 1500 problems page for any concerns around automatic transmission problems/transmission issues, engine, clutch or suspension issues, or diesel problems (hey, they might crop up in the future)."
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/ram-1500-70733
-- Edited by Knight on Sunday 1st of September 2019 01:16:46 PM
Towing Test
www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/details/tow-test-ram-1500-laramie-2018-review-116136/
There are two differential ratio choices for the Laramie, which affects towing capacity. With the shorter, 3.92:1 ratio diffs, the 1500 Laramie has a 4500kg towing capacity. With the 3.21:1 ratio final drive ratio, the towing capacity is down 1000kg, at 3500kg. The Express, available with the 3.92:1 only, has a maximum 4500kg towing capacity.
Both towing capacities allow 10 per cent maximum towball download, making it 450kg for the 4500kg-capacity Express/Laramie and 350kg for the 3500kg-capacity Laramie.
Payload pain
While the 4500kg towing capacity puts the Laramie a solid 1000kg above the dual cab utes such as Ranger, it comes at a cost when it comes to carrying gear in or on the RAM.
To not exceed the RAMs 7237kg Gross Combination Mass (the maximum legal weight of the RAM and trailer combined, as it stands on the road with all payload, including occupants) while towing its maximum permitted 4500kg, youre allowed only 87kg payload in the RAM.
-- Edited by Knight on Sunday 1st of September 2019 01:30:00 PM
Hi Jill....you have not stated what size Dodge Ram you are asking about.However,if you are considering a Dodge Ram 1500 you need to be aware that there is no way that you can tow more than 3000kg ATM if the trailer is a PIG trailer.(Van)....NO WAY. Do not believe any of the rubbish in the adverts,or from the salesman.The only way that a heavier trailer can be towed is if the trailer is a DOG trailer,which is a trailer with a steerable front axle and very little towbar weight.(20kg ....simplified description). The 1500 has a rear axle limit of a miserable 1770kg,which is less than that of the popular twin-cab lightweights.Be very careful.Please keep us in the picture before you part with any cash,and feel free to PM me if you would like help.Good luck.Cheers
PM sent to you....
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 1st of September 2019 02:14:14 PM
NO NO NO....not a snowflakes chance in hell of towing much over 3000kg.FACT. Please respond to my PM (Private message).You can access the message by clicking on your user name,in the top right corner of this page.This will take you to your mailbox,and you simply reply to the message I have sent already.Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 1st of September 2019 06:02:47 PM
The rear axle weight rating is a issue if hooking up a largish van and wanting to carry much in the tub.... do yourself a favour and look into this... it's mostly what Yobar is going on about.
Yes good advice from responders, and please be very careful and check out the vehicle thoroughly and look at many reviews re towing with them, I don't believe they are as good they are cracked up to be in regards to towing weights and weight carrying at the same time.
What also does concern me is that in the future when these Dodge Ram 1500 come up on the second hand market you are going to get people buying them(and salesmen selling them) with absolutely no idea of the differences in towing capacity with the different diff ratios, as I see it that is a recipe for trouble.
Thanks Noel....sometimes I feel that I am flogging a dead horse,as some people do not like to hear facts that burst their bubble! The Dodge Ram 1500 has over 1000kg rear axle weight at tare.A towball weight of 350kg transfers around 500kg (+/-) to the rear axle of the car, Add another 100kg for fuel,and already we are up to 1600kg.....no passengers,no luggage and no hope! And you will never get to your 3450kg because a 350kg towball weight takes about 150kg off the front axle of the car,and transfers it to the rear axle. (Think levers) If you actually want to sit in the car (to drive it!) and carry anything in the tray,the biggest van you can safely,and legally tow,with the generally accepted 10% towball weight,is a van with an ATM of no more than 3000kg. Look elsewhere. A Ranger,(for example) can legally and safely tow a van with up to about 3100kg ATM,and is a lot cheaper.Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 2nd of September 2019 07:18:02 PM
Hi Jill....might I respectfully suggest that it is pointless continuing your research if you want to tow more than 3000kg.The Dodge Ram 1500 certainly is a big,beautiful and powerful vehicle,but do not let your wish to own one,or the prevarification of the salesman,lure you into making a decision that you later will regret.If you wish to tow more than 3000kg as a PIG trailer,you will be overloaded,unsafe,and uninsured.Most salesmen have absolutely no understanding of weights,and those that do will certainly not do anything that could jeopardise a sale,and adversely affect their income.Recently I was at a Dodge dealer,being nosey,and I struck up conversation with a chap who advised that he had just bought the very car I was sitting in,having just traded his LC200.After I spent time explaining the folly of this decision,he cancelled his order and drove away in his Cruiser!Let me tell you,he and I were the only two people in the dealership that were happy! Anybody who tells you that that vehicle can tow much more than 3000kg as a PIG trailer is either ignorant of facts,or is a liar.FACT....but good luck with your search.What is wrong with a Ranger,Colorado,D-Max etc,or you could go the whole hog and get an LC79,which has a 2300kg rear axle from new,a massive 530kg MORE than the Dodge Ram 1500.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 3rd of September 2019 09:40:32 AM
I read your posts with interest Yobarr, but am confused as to why the dealers can say it can tow x amount, when it can't.
I have a LC200 and it is advertised as being capable of 3500 kg, my van is 3200 kg ATM, and it feels safe as houses, has the power and weight to tow comfortably. Most caravan writers call Cruisers legendary and top of the range for towing.
Dodge Ram and Silverados claim they can tow 4500 kg, surely they can tow 3500 kg, if not what can tow 3 +1/2 tonnes as there are plenty of vans around that weight.
I would not feel as safe with a dual cab ute, too light for my van.
I don't disagree with your claims, just trying to come to terms with them.
Cheers Bob
Hi Bob....thanks for your questions.I will first address your question about the Dodge Ram 1500,and later I will explain why you cannot tow a van with an ATM above 3000kg with an LC200,if you wish to carry anything in the car.The major problem that the Dodge Ram 1500 has is that its rear axle is rated at a miserable 1770kg,well below that on many of the popular twin-cabs that are rated to tow 3500kg.Yeah,right.Using the Ram as an example,the rear axle,at tare weight,is over 1000kg.A 350kg ball weight adds around 500kg to the rear axle.(Think levers)Then you add 100kg for fuel,and already you are up to 1600kg on that axle.No passengers,no luggage,no hope. The chances of it legally towing a 4500kg pig trailer (caravan) are zero,zilch,nil,nada. The only way that that car can tow anything over about 3000kgs ATM is if the trailer is a dog trailer which is a trailer with two (or more) axles,and a steerable front axle with minimal (10kg?) weight on the hitch point.(Towball if you like).This is how the 4500kg towing capacity is justified if ever anybody questions that ability.Big,comfortable and powerful that car may be,but not a snowflakes chance in hell of towing 4500kg as a pig trailer. Now for the pain,as the same thing applies to your LC200 which has a rear axle capacity of only 1950kg.Tare weight is around 2750kg (+/-) but GVM is only 3350kg.If you hook your 3200kg van to the car,with 10% towball weight,immediately you are up to 3070kg......still no fuel,no passengers (or driver) no luggage,and no beer.You instantly are overloaded on your cars rear axle as at least 150kg has been transferred from the front axle to the rear axle.(Think levers).The experts then advise that a WDH be used,but all that does is add even more weight to your cars rear axle,as well as increasing your TBO (towball overhang, or distance from rear axle to hitch point). This means that even more weight is transferred from the front axle to the rear.The much-adored McHitch multiplies that weight transfer even further! When the WDH is tensioned in an effort to put some weight back onto the front axle of the car,some weight is indeed taken off the rear axle of the car,and put back onto the front,but there also is weight transferred to the vans axle group,putting you over your ATM (and GTM?) so you are overweight,illegal and uninsured.Many owners of LC200s spend thousands of dollars upgrading their GVM to 3800kg (or is it 3850kg?),but this is a road to nowhere as rear axle capacity increases by a miserable 50kg to 2000kg.This is great if you simply want to carry more stuff in your car,but virtually useless to you if you wish to tow a heavy van,as always you will be overloaded on your lightweight rear axle.If you would like more info,please PM me and I will try to help.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 3rd of September 2019 05:55:57 PM
These are the figures for a LC200. They are not a great tow tug. D4 or D5 Landrover or a Range Rover leave them for dead both in payload and fuel economy. And they are also far more comfortable.
Make/Model LC200 GXL V8
Max towing rating 3,500 Kg
TARE 2,612 Kg
Plus TBW 350 Kg
Fuel 138 Kg
2 Passengers 150 Kg
bullbar 100 Kg
Mimimum GVM 3,350 Kg
GVM 3,350 Kg
Mandated GCM 6,850 Kg
remaining payload 0 Kg
GCM = Minimum GVM + Van weight result 0
Realistically a LC 200 cannot tow 3500kg unless you dont have a bullbar and total passenger weight with that in mind 250Kg. Thats basically 2 adults and 2 kids and nothing else in the car.
-- Edited by HandyWalter on Tuesday 3rd of September 2019 05:56:24 PM
Walter...interesting post,but the 1950kg rear axle capacity means an LC200 can never tow a 3500kg van,assuming 10% towball weight,unless the fuel tank is empty,there is no luggage,and the driver is good friends with Jenny Craig.And you will never get to the 3350kg GVM because a 350kg towball weight takes much more than 150kg off the front axle......up to 180kg, depending on the TBO that varies with the use of a WDH and/or a McHitch.Overrated in the extreme,I am afraid.Cheers
There are a few vehicles out there that can legally and safely tow 3000kg,and sometimes a little more.A Ranger,for example,has 6000kg GCM and 3200kg GVM.If you hook up a 3100kg ATM van,with 10% towball weight,you have van with weight on wheels {GTM}of 2800kg behind a car with weight on wheels of 3200kg (including the 300kg ball weight} All legal,and all safe,with the car being over 10% heavier than the van.Just an example.If you upgrade a DMax,you can run 2150kg on the rear axle,so that is another good option.Or you could buy an LC79 and have a factory rear axle rating of 2300kg,although you would have to use a clutch as there is no factory auto.Cheers
As I said A Landrover D4 or D5 (now called New Discovery) and a Range Rover Sport. All will tow 3.5T. Expensive yes. Comfortable yes. Fuel economy better than just about all mentioned here. Power to get up hills with ease yes. And I dare say although yet to be released the new Landrover Defender will probably be in the same league. Other than anything else I guess an Iveco Daily might also be able to tow 3.5T.
Even semi-offload designs with all convenience such as en-suite can be purchased that are under 2,500 kg, single axle under 2,000 kg.
Hi Dennis...My ATM is 1540kg more than my plated tare,and I need every bit of it,with 420 litres water for starters....Cheers
Hi Walter....whilst these are no doubt lovely vehicles,they cannot safely tow a 3500kg van,assuming 10% ball weight.First problem is the rear axle capacity,which seems to vary from 1775kg to 1900kg,both weights being even less than that of an LC200.Next is their short wheelbase,which seems to vary from 2740mm to 2885mm,although I did find one model with about 2930mm? The shorter the wheelbase,the more likely the car is to be affected by the van,and the more weight is taken from the front axle and transferred to the rear axle of the car.And the fuel tanks seem to be more suited for a trip around town than any sort of distance travel.Adding a fuel tank to increase range would only exacerbate the rear axle weight issues.The one thing in their favour is that,if you were to hook up a 3500kg van,the cars weight on wheels (GVM) would be slightly more than the vans weight on wheels (GTM).....but 3500kg? Not likely!Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 4th of September 2019 09:46:43 AM
I am unsure of how you get weight figures on axles with the car as it stands. I cannot see anything that says the car weighs XXX on the rear axles as it stands. So not sure why you think the rear end can/cannot take the tow ball weight. But I stand corrected if you can provide such figures. Also the LR have air bag suspension with cross axle and front to rear leveling so weight gets transferred by the cars cpu and varies as soon as you hook up and as you drive along. As soon as my car feels the load of my 2.6t van it raises the rear end and lowers the front to compensate. Not sure what its doing but I am told it is covering the weight, and distributing it I guess much like a WDH does, which LR says not to put on their cars. And as for the pissy fuel tank. When I get 14lphk towing and 9lphk, not towing compared to a LC that gets at best 22 and 14 (yes I have a friend who goes with me on some of my trips) its no wonder they need a 130ltr tank!. Distances per tank are almost identical but my saving is 40+ litres of fuel cost! My weight figures are total for the cars and as such the LC is on the limit whereas the LR are not. Not defending the RAM but if they cannot tow 3.5T then why doesnt some one sue them ie ACCC with false advertising? If its as easy to prove as you say then it should be a simple matter to raise this with the suitable authorities.
HW, just an observation " Not sure what its doing but I am told it is covering the weight, and distributing it I guess much like a WDH does,...."
I would assume that the weight doesn't go anywhere. That air system would be purely levelling of the tow vehicle. WDH forces down weight on the front axle and lessens down weight to the rear axle....quite different. I stand corrected.
Tony