Hi 

we are newbies to the forum and are seeking some advice on new van that we are considering purchasing.

The van is a Provincial Salute Senator 22ft,sold by Melbourne City Caravans.They have only been trading since 2016,we were wondering if any one has information on the quality of their vans and the service the company provides.

cheers

I don't think the poster is after an opinion on What to buy?????????????

Welcome, sorry mate, but you get a lot of posts here that go straight off the topic!!

Hopefully someone with that make of van will post soon
cheers and good luck
Ian

Rowey wrote:

Hi we are newbies to the forum and are seeking some advice on new van that we are considering purchasing.The van is a Provincial Salute Senator 22ft,sold by Melbourne City Caravans.They have only been trading since 2016,we were wondering if any one has information on the quality of their vans and the service the company provides.cheers

 Hi Robert...whilst I do not have any experience with that van,a quick internet search of reviews showed that the only things the reviewers found of any concern were the need for a big car (must be heavy?),exposed fittings underneath and tricky access to underseat storage areas.Overall,the reviewers seemed most impressed.Good luck with your search.Cheers

P.S They ARE indeed heavy,with a tare of 2850kg and an ATM of 3500kg,so you will need a BIG car. Do not even think of using an LC200,Dodge Ram 1500 any of the 6000kg GCM twin-cab utes to tow one.....they all have not a snowflakes chance in hell of safely towing 3500kg. What car do you propose to tow with?

P.P.S Where do you live....

The caravan council of Australia is making info available to caravan buyers. They have suggested thus question sheet be filled in by caravan dealers prior to purchase. I know it looks lengthey but coppy it out and give them a list of question that you feel you need to ask.

Th council recommends that it be back to you completed before money changes hand......Good luck with that.

Don't rib me with the obvious I am only passing on the info.

VSB1 Compliance Check-List  -  

Caravan & Camper-Trailer Auditing

Compliance with ADR / VSB-1 Regulations

Type of RV:  Brand: ..........................

 Serial No:

Audit Date:

 Audit Address: ...........

Name & Signature of Manufacturer:

Name & Signature of Auditor: ..

Does the Aggregate Trailer Mass Rating (ATM Rating) not exceed 4.5 tonnes (4,500 kg): YES / NO

Does the Aggregate Trailer Mass Rating (ATM Rating) not exceed 3.5 tonnes (3,500 kg): YES / NO

Are ADR/Compliance records retained for ten (10) years: YES / NO

Is the vehicle plate durable, non-corrosive metal, and positioned as prescribed: YES / NO

Is the vehicle plate permanently affixed as prescribed: YES / NO

Does the vehicle plate show at least the following information:

Manufacturer's or Importers Name: YES / NO .

Trailer Model: YES / NO 

Vehicle Identification Number: YES / NO

Date of Manufacture: YES / NO

Aggregate Trailer Mass Rating (kg): YES / NO ..

The Certification Statement: YES / NO

This trailer was manufactured to comply with the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989

Is the information legible, not less than 2.5 mm high, and marked as prescribed: YES / NO

Is the vehicle identified by means of a 17 character Vehicle Identification Number (VIN): YES / NO

Is the VIN also stamped, in at least 7 mm-high digits, on the drawbar: YES / NO

Is the VIN provided in a secondary location: YES / NO   (Recommended)

Is provision made for mounting a 372 mm x 136 mm registration plate on the rear: YES / NO

Is no part of the registration plate more than 1300 mm above the ground: YES / NO


Lighting:

Do all lamps and reflectors have an E-Mark or CRN: YES / NO   (All CRNs to be listed)



Are all lamps and reflectors orientated and located correctly: YES / NO

Are the prescribed number of lamps and reflectors fitted: YES / NO

Front Position (Side) Lamps: 2 must be fitted if trailer is more than 1600 mm wide and over 4 metres long, or over 1800 mm wide.
For trailers 2100 mm wide or less, may be combined with 2 prescribed side-marker lamps YES / NO

Rear Position (Side) Lamps (Tail Lamps): 2 must be fitted YES / NO

Rear Stop Lamps (Brake Lamps): 2 must be fitted YES / NO

Direction Indicator Lamps (Turn Signals): 2 must be fitted YES / NO

Rear Registration Plate (Number Plate) Lamp: 1 or 2 must be fitted YES / NO

Hazard Warning Signal Lamps: Must operate simultaneously with tow-vehicle lamps YES / NO

End-Outline Marker Lamps: 2 must be fitted, front & rear, if more than 2100 mm wide YES / NO

Side-Marker Lamps: Option 1: YES / NO   Option 2: YES / NO

Front Retro (Reflex) Reflectors: 2 must be fitted YES / NO

Rear Retro (Reflex) Reflectors: 2 must be fitted YES / NO

Side Retro (Reflex) Reflectors: Must be fitted as prescribed YES / NO

Trailer & Tow-vehicle Wiring: Correct: YES / NO


Connector Pin No: Circuit Colour

7 Pin
1 Left turn-signal lamp Yellow
2 Reversing lamp Black
3 Earth return White
4 Right turn-signal lamp Green
5 Service brakes Blue
6 Stop lamp Red
7 Position, side-marker & E-O lamp Brown

12 Pin  
8 Batter charger - winch Orange
9 Auxiliaries / battery feed Pink
10 Earth return White
11 Fog lamp Grey
12 Spare Violet


Is the trailer wiring:

supported at intervals of not more than 600 millimetres along its length: YES / NO

insulated at joints: YES / NO

located so that it can neither become overheated nor contact moving parts: YES / NO

protected from chafing: YES / NO

fitted with an earth return wire between the trailer and its hauling vehicle: YES / NO


If there is a 230-volt AC electrical system, does it comply with AS 3000/3001: YES / NO

Electrical Certificate Details: .

.


Braking:

Is the GTM Rating marked on the vehicle: YES / NO

Is the GTM Rating over 2.0 tonne: YES / NO

Is the prescribed braking system fitted: YES / NO

Number of Brakes: ...

Type of braking system: . Drum/Disc Size:

If required, is an approved break-away system fitted: YES / NO

If required, can the condition of the caravan battery reasonably be expected to be observable from the driving position of a tow-vehicle: YES / NO


Coupling & A-Frame:

Is there a compliance certificate for ADR 62 / VSB-1: YES / NO

Note: The assessment must include the strength of the welding, and state the grade of steel used, along
with the sectional dimensions of the A-Frame members.

Engineering Certificate Details:

.

Is the Drawbar securely attached to a substantial portion of the vehicle: YES / NO

Are Safety Chains correctly marked and Approved to the prescribed Standard: YES / NO

Are the correct number fitted: YES / NO

Are they of the correct size: YES / NO .. mm

Are the Safety Chain attachment points of sufficient strength and fitted as prescribed: YES / NO

Is the Coupling of the correct rating and design, and Approved as prescribed: YES / NO

50 mm Ball Coupling:

Does the coupling comply with AS 4177: YES / NO

If not, does it comply with ECE R55: YES / NO

If the coupling is a 50 mm ball, is it designed to comply with the ADR 61/01 or ADR 62/02 height
requirements of the ball height of the tow vehicle (350-420 mm or 350-460 mm): YES / NO

Load Rating on Coupling: kg    

Ball Diameter on Coupling: mm    Provide details if an imperial size:

If another type of coupling is fitted, is it Approved: YES / NO

Do the wheel (mud) guards provide the prescribed protection: YES / NO

Are the wheels Approved and marked with all prescribed information: YES / NO

Do the wheels make a solid metal-to-metal contact with the hub flange: YES / NO

Are the tyres Approved and marked with the prescribed information: YES / NO


Tyre Placard:

If the GTM Rating does not exceed 3.5 tonnes, is there a prescribed tyre placard: YES / NO / NA

Is at least the following must be shown:

the manufacturer's recommended tyre size: ..

tyre load rating: ..

speed rating: ..

cold inflation pressures:

either the statement: YES / NO

'The tyres fitted to this vehicle shall have a speed category not less than 'L' (120km/h)':

or if the recommended maximum vehicle operating speed is less than 120km/h,

'The tyres fitted to this vehicle shall have a speed category at least equal to the recommended maximum
vehicle operating speed,'....'km/h.', where '....' is the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum vehicle operating speed.

If the GTM Rating does exceed 3.5 tonnes, are the prescribed requirements met: YES / NO / NA

Rim Size: Diameter: . ;   Width: .. mm;   Profile: .. ;   Off-set: + / - ....

Is the tyre/rim combination in accordance with the Tyre & Rim Association requirements: YES / NO


Dimensions:

Does the overall length not exceed 12.5 metres: YES / NO

Does the rear overhang not exceed the lesser of 3.7 m, or the front load space: YES / NO

Does the maximum width not exceed 2.5 metres: YES / NO

Does the height not exceed 4.3 metres: YES / NO

Does the ground clearance exceed the minimum permitted requirements: YES / NO

If required, is there an outward opening or sliding door: YES / NO  

If so, is it located on the left-hand side or at the rear: YES / NO


If there is an LPG installation, is there a valid Certificate of Compliance with AS 5601:2  YES / NO

Gas Certificate Details: ...




Is an approved fire-extinguisher fitted: YES / NO

Is an approved smoke-detector fitted: YES / NO   (Recommended)

Is an approved CO-detector fitted: YES / NO   (Recommended)

Is an approved fire-blanket fitted: YES / NO   (Recommended)

Is the vehicle free of unduly sharp edges or projections: YES / NO

Is the structure capable of supporting the designed payload with a Safety Factor of at least 3 for
highway use and a safety factor of 5 for off-road use: YES / NO


VSB-1:   www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/index.aspx



Caravan Ratings & Masses


The GTM & ATM are Ratings allocated by the Manufacturer

The Tare Mass and Ball-Loading are Actual Masses that must be measured

The Tare Mass is the actual measured mass of the vehicle as it leaves the Supplier.

The vehicle is fitted with everything that was stated on the Sales Contract.

The vehicle is empty. The gas cylinder(s) and the water tank(s) are empty.

The Axle-Loading must not exceed the GTM Rating

The All-Up Mass must not exceed the ATM Rating

Legal Load-Carrying Capacity = ATM Rating Tare Mass


The GTM Rating must not exceed the lowest of the Axle-Group Ratings.

The Axle-Group comprises the:

Wheels & Tyres

Suspension Structure

Springs

 Axles & Wheel-Bearings


Tow-Vehicle:

GVM: Gross Vehicle Mass (Rating)

GCM: Gross Combination Mass (Rating)

RAC: Rear Axle Capacity (Rating)

Maximum Permitted Towing Capacity: (Rating)

Maximum Permitted Coupling Down-load Capacity: (Rating)


Tow-Bar: 

Maximum Permitted Towing & Down-load Limits: (Ratings)

Knight wrote:

---

www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/details/the-truth-about-3500kg-tow-ratings-52864/

---

 Thanks Dennis.Perhaps that will help people understand weights? What it is essential to remember is that the weight on the wheels of the car must be at least 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van,if safety is of any concern.If you hook a 3500kg van,with towball weight 10%,to any of the twin-cab,6000kg GCM, lightweights,you will have 3150kg GTM (weight on van wheels) behind a car with weight on wheels of 2850kg. The van is thus 10% heavier than the car,and this set-up is an accident looking for a place to happen. We now will no doubt get the usual waffle from people telling us how they have travelled a million kms towing a 3500kg van behind a light car with no trouble at all because they are safe drivers and drive to the conditions etc etc.Any such achievement is a result more of good luck than good management.Cheers

blaze wrote:

---

most likely wont see the OP again, He just asked about 1 type of van
cheers.blaze

---

 That he most certainly did,and after doing a little research I reported back that that the van he is considering is very heavy,and that he would need to be very careful in his selection of a suitable tow vehicle.Forewarned is forearmed,and to that end Paul submitted a detailed list of points to ponder when considering his purchase.If he does end up trying to tow said van with an unsuitable vehicle,we can be comfortable that we did at least do what we could to help.Cheers

Hi Rowey

It depends on what you want to do with your van there is a big differance between going to caravan parks or being totally self sufficent and or sticking to the tar going off road and by going off road I mean corrugated roads like Gibb river road and cape York.If you are not in hurry go to the shows or factories and look for manufacturers that give you back up service and more than one year warranty as there a lot  of new caravans come into the market in the past few years .A caravan company that has been building for three years I personally would like to some research on as they are new to the market and if do you are really keen on there product go to there factory that will make your mind up cheers

I doubt you would get a response about the van you are considering on this site you would be better off checking out caravan parks or travellers with that brand and asking the info you are after

MThanks everyone for your assistance,advice,checklists and weights. I guess at the end of the day that these vans are still revertilly new and theres not many out in the market place. We have arranged a tour of the factory where they are maunfactured , then a demo tow .Guess then its entirely up to us, weather its a YES or NO. The dealer seems quite open about any questions,concerns that we have put forward so far.
Thanks again ,we keep you posted on the outcome