Seems we need carbon and that more can only be good for life on this planet. A totally different vie from the ones being spruiked for the past 30 years. Someone making money out of carbon credits maybe.
If you search hard enough you can find lots of this sort of bumpkin on the net. Almost entirely from unscientific sources that have a barrow to push.
If you still think climate change is not happening try reading literature from scientists that know what they are talking about instead.
Alan
the rocket said
03:18 PM May 20, 2019
Brenda and Alan wrote:
If you search hard enough you can find lots of this sort of bumpkin on the net. Almost entirely from unscientific sources that have a barrow to push.
If you still think climate change is not happening try reading literature from scientists that know what they are talking about instead.
Alan
Hi alan, i am really concerned about future generations having to live with it. Scarey stuff.
spida said
09:32 AM May 21, 2019
I agree climate change is happening. I am just pointing out that there is another side to the story that simply gets drowned out and that people may not have heard. Read thoughtfully and wonder if all the noise is scare-mongering????
Grandad5 said
10:17 AM May 21, 2019
This is the probably the most spine chilling report on climate change I've personally seen. Four scientists from Australia speak on the subject. It's not what they say about the science that troubles me. They're just confirming what scientists from all around the globe have been saying for 30 years. It's when they start talking about how they personally feel, knowing what they know, about their own private plans for their own futures.
See if you can watch it and NOT be very concerned for your grand children. I wasn't able to.
What a load of rubbish in that link,those people make Archie Bunker look like a Genius.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUEGyaYEGhc
Grandad5 said
10:09 AM May 22, 2019
Let's see now. Who were these 4 "Archie Bunker Clones"
1) Associate Professor University of New South Wales
Director UNSW Climate Change Research Centre
20 years experience in the field
2) Research Fellowship at University of New South Wales
3) PhD student at Melbourne University
4) Works At Sustainable Development Institute at Monash University
Climate Scientist and Atmospheric Physicist
Head of Inter Governmental Panel on Climate Change
Director Hadley Centre for Climate Change
Vice Chairman World Climate Research Program
Yup....Definite similarities there.
Jim
Plain Truth said
10:40 AM May 22, 2019
And these 4 Archie Bunker clones,know where to go to avoid climate change
One is going to Tassie
One is going to Canberra,the days are going to be hot but the nights are cooler,so you can cope.
One has the children learning 3 languages and having 3 passports.so they can be adaptable.Yes they can flit from one place to another when it warms up.Bugger the carbon foot print as they fly to one warm spot to a cooler one.
Where ever that may be.
And the Professer"s computer model says Devon.Cornwell area,good for a hundred years.
So now you all no where to go.
I will stay where I am thanks.
Plain Truth said
02:02 PM May 22, 2019
All you people living in Darwin and Brisbane,time to get out.
The Professor said at the 8.51 mark if you live there you should seriously consider moving.
Come on these experts are gotta be taken seriously.
spida said
06:05 PM May 22, 2019
What I got out of reading the article I posted was that if we reduce carbon too much then the trees and plants wont grow so well, which means less oxygen, less water, less food, more deserts etc. Maybe think instead about the effects on life if we continue in this mad dash to try to reduce carbon in the atmosphere????????? There was so much more carbon in the days of dinosaurs..... in the time when you could grow grapes in Britain.....
Santa said
06:51 PM May 22, 2019
spida wrote:
There was so much more carbon in the days of dinosaurs..... in the time when you could grow grapes in Britain.....
The dinosaurs lived on grapes?
Ron-D said
09:13 AM May 23, 2019
Climate change cant be solved by Australia with its small population when most of the world continues to polute,I suppose we can can throw millions of dollar at it and destroy our economy,but whats the point .not trying to be political because its against forum rules just a commen sense view in my opinion...
-- Edited by Ron-D on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 09:16:21 AM
Grandad5 said
10:02 AM May 23, 2019
Ron-D wrote:
Climate change cant be solved by Australia with its small population when most of the world continues to polute,I suppose we can can throw millions of dollar at it and destroy our economy,but whats the point.
-- Edited by Ron-D on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 09:16:21 AM
I totally agree with your basic sentiment Ron. Whatever we do here in Australia won't change much unless the world as a whole chips in and does their bit. And, so far that hasn't happened, and if history and human nature are any indicators, it never will. Until it's too late.
Lowering of our C02 production hopefully may slow things down. Maybe. Not stop it entirely. Renewable energy sources must and WILL become the norm someday. By necessity, As things get worse we are going to need more electric power to cope. If that is not from renewable sources, the downward spiral will continue.
That's why our efforts as a country today must be, in my opinion, to move towards renewables at a quicker pace. At the start of this cycle, as we are right now, totally reliant on renewables is not feasible. But start making it harder to burn coal and research and development dollars will be channeled into this end, and government infrastructure will have $ invested in it. Lile charging stations for electric cars.
Will all this cost money? Yup. Lots of it. Especially at the start. Get used to it. Change is not optional.
Iva Biggen said
10:24 AM May 23, 2019
Probably should have put this picture here instead of the other post but I recon it still fits both posts.
I have read the original articles, but will admit, that I have been too busy to check all the facts, so will take them at face value
I also, (I suppose like many others), also take other environmental articles at face value
My understanding on the original articles, is that the authors are not denying that the temperature is increasing, but are calling it a natural climate change, and that it is all a hoax saying that we should stop carbon going into the atmosphere, as carbon is good
My understanding after reading other climate change articles, is that if we do not stop the temperature rise, caused by mankind, then we are in trouble
My personal opinion, (so I could be wrong), is that I have seen the temperature rise, in my lifetime
I would therefore prefer to do something to slow the temperature rise, than to do nothing
I also dismiss the argument, that as Australia does not put out as much pollution as other countries, then we do not need to do anything
To my way of thinking, doing nothing is the easy way out, and will accomplish nothing
Doing something is the hard way out, and may also accomplish nothing in the big scheme of things, but at least we can say that we tried
Delta18 said
02:29 PM May 23, 2019
Tony Bev wrote:
My understanding on the original articles, is that the authors are not denying that the temperature is increasing, but are calling it a natural climate change, and that it is all a hoax saying that we should stop carbon going into the atmosphere, as carbon is good
Correct, this planet is going through just 1 of the many 'Climate Changes' it has endured since it became a blob of molten rock billions of years ago.
In relatively recent planet history there was an Ice Age when much of the planet pretty much froze.
It has since thawed and is heading into a much warmer cycle.
Between then and now there have been lesser ups and downs of the warm/cool cycles.
There is more Co2 spewed daily from any large volcano than humans have ever created so if they think that humans can
stop, or even slow the change then they need an ego check.
But, lets tax it, that will make us feel better.
I'm all for cleaning up our collective act to make this a more pleasant place to live for the time we have left to live here but, we will never stop the inevitable.
rockylizard said
02:58 PM May 23, 2019
Gday...
Dunno wot all the angst is about ... since last weekend's election result, there is no climate change ... very few voted for it.
Anyway -
According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the worlds volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by todays human endeavors.
Furthermore, some scientists believe that spectacular volcanic eruptions, like that of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 and Mt. Pinatubo in 1991, actually lead to short-term global cooling, not warming, as sulfur dioxide (SO2), ash and other particles in the air and stratosphere reflect some solar energy instead of letting it into Earths atmosphere. SO2, which converts to sulfuric acid aerosol when it hits the stratosphere, can linger there for as long as seven years and can exercise a cooling effect long after a volcanic eruption has taken place.
There are many scientific articles on that most trusted of resources, the internet, that dismiss the impact of 'climate change pollution' from volcano action.
Cheers - John
Izabarack said
03:16 PM May 23, 2019
I am on tank water and keep an eye on rainfall figures for what should be obvious reasons. Where I am just south and a little west of Brissy, we have received a little more than half the average rainfall expected. Records going back a long way show a steady decrease in the average figure. I believe climate change is happening.
Why and what is causing the change is not clear to me. At the same time I see lots of land clearing and fossil fuel emissions and plastics pollution. Climate change coincides with the destruction of the usual mechanisms the world uses to soak up the emitted carbon. I'm convinced we need to stop doing a lot of things and we need to start doing that about 30 years ago.
Iza
Ron-D said
05:52 PM May 23, 2019
Climate change may well exist but this tiny population in Australia doing it alone with some help from other countries are not going to achieve much alone ,its just a huge waste of taxpayers money we might be climate change heroes I suppose ,but unless most of the world joins in not much will be achieved just my opinion.
Bicyclecamper said
06:44 PM May 23, 2019
Here Here Iza, coming from some0ne whom has a degree in Applied Science (Resource Management) formally employed by Coal and Allied(Rio Tinto, whom promptly after 12 months of employment sent me back to do a degree in Environmental Science). Recently Rio Tinto, unloaded all of it's coal assets, and is moving into renewable assets. It's shareholders demanded it because of Climate Change. Coal and Allied is a company that has been running for 219 years. If they are seeing the light, as the richest Mining company in the world, your deniers should see the light as well. I know you people whom don't believe, will be taught a painful lesson with in 15 years. Their wont be too many places in Australia to live, especially with the lack of rain and drinking water and water for crops and livestock. I have been severely depressed about this problem for the last 20 years. No 0ne will learn and nothing will change in our habits of consistently running a dirty, filthy planet!
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 06:58:55 PM
spida said
08:46 PM May 23, 2019
Thank you Delta. I am so relieved that someone is prepared to think about climate change as an historical thing and that taxing/lowering carbon maybe is not actually the answer. to quote from the article.....
CO2 is the currency of life and the most important building block for all life on Earth. All life is carbon-based, including our own. Surely the carbon cycle and its central role in the creation of life should be taught to our children rather than the demonization of CO2, that carbon is a pollutant that threatens the continuation of life. We know for a fact that CO2 is essential for life and that it must be at a certain level in the atmosphere for the survival of plants, which are the primary food for all the other species alive today. Should we not encourage our citizens, students, teachers, politicians, scientists, and other leaders to celebrate CO2 as the giver of life that it is?
It is a proven fact that plants, including trees and all our food crops, are capable of growing much faster at higher levels of CO2 than present in the atmosphere today. Even at the todays concentration of 400 ppm plants are relatively starved for nutrition. The optimum level of CO2 for plant growth is about 5 times higher, 2000 ppm, yet the alarmists warn it is already too high. They must be challenged every day by every person who knows the truth in this matter. CO2 is the giver of life and we should celebrate CO2 rather than denigrate it as is the fashion today.
We are witnessing the Greening of the Earth as higher levels of CO2, due to human emissions from the use of fossil fuels, promote increased growth of plants around the world. This has been confirmed by scientists with CSIRO in Australia, in Germany, and in North America. Only half of the CO2 we are emitting from the use of fossil fuels is showing up in the atmosphere. The balance is going somewhere else and the best science says most of it is going into an increase in global plant biomass. And what could be wrong with that, as forests and agricultural crops become more productive?
All the CO2 in the atmosphere has been created by outgassing from the Earths core during massive volcanic eruptions. This was much more prevalent in the early history of the Earth when the core was hotter than it is today. During the past 150 million years there has not been enough addition of CO2 to the atmosphere to offset the gradual losses due to burial in sediments.
-- Edited by spida on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 08:57:47 PM
Brenda and Alan said
12:07 AM May 24, 2019
Delta take a good look at the time lines for these historical changes in climate, they occur over thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years. What we are experiencing now has occurred in less than 150 years. Instead of putting your head in the sand try looking at articles from reputed scientists instead of Tony Abbots climate deniers. Start with a Google search of Greenland's ice sheet melting which is fast approaching non reversibility and will lead to a 6 metre sea level rise in the next 30 years. I hope you don't own real estate on the Gold Coast, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth etc.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 24th of May 2019 10:29:48 AM
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 24th of May 2019 10:30:37 AM
Grandad5 said
09:56 AM May 24, 2019
A few people have mentioned personal observations about how temperatures/seasons have changed in their lifetimes. It's reminded me of my own observation that I thought of. Take it as you will. Normal? or otherwise.
I was born on Dec 1st in Canada. The first day of winter. I have a very clear recollection of inviting a friend to my birthday party one year in the late 50's. He queried it because he had observed that my birthday had always coincided with the first snowfalls, and no snow had fallen yet. So, in the late 50's, snow was expected by Dec 1st.
In the late 70's, my daughter travelled to my hometown in December. She was looking forward to experiencing her first white Christmas. My brother was a little concerned because by that time a white Christmas was a 50/50 chance. (It did snow in time that year)
Very early in the new millenium, my nephew wrote that he was hoping it might snow in time for New Years eve that year. It was, at that time a 50/50 chance.
Last winter, the same nephew wrote that it had snowed for the first time that year on New Years eve. He remarked that it had been a long time since they'd had snow 'That early'
But when it does come, it is brutal. Almost as if it was making up for lost time.
All perfectly natural? Happens every billion years or so? You believe what you want to believe. Whatever gets you through the night.
All I am 100% convinced of is, the climate is most definitely changing. Rapidly. We won't stop it, but we best start down the path of coping with it. For every scientist writing that there is nothing to worry about, there are 100 stating the opposite.
Jim
the rocket said
03:49 PM May 24, 2019
Bicyclecamper wrote:
Here Here Iza, coming from some0ne whom has a degree in Applied Science (Resource Management) formally employed by Coal and Allied(Rio Tinto, whom promptly after 12 months of employment sent me back to do a degree in Environmental Science). Recently Rio Tinto, unloaded all of it's coal assets, and is moving into renewable assets. It's shareholders demanded it because of Climate Change. Coal and Allied is a company that has been running for 219 years. If they are seeing the light, as the richest Mining company in the world, your deniers should see the light as well. I know you people whom don't believe, will be taught a painful lesson with in 15 years. Their wont be too many places in Australia to live, especially with the lack of rain and drinking water and water for crops and livestock. I have been severely depressed about this problem for the last 20 years. No 0ne will learn and nothing will change in our habits of consistently running a dirty, filthy planet!
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 06:58:55 PM
Hello biocamper and welcome to the forum.
If i bought a propertu now, it would be on a hill
-- Edited by the rocket on Friday 24th of May 2019 03:50:40 PM
landy said
09:53 PM May 24, 2019
Santa wrote:
spida wrote:
There was so much more carbon in the days of dinosaurs..... in the time when you could grow grapes in Britain.....
The dinosaurs lived on grapes?
No they used the grapes to make wine.
spida said
11:07 AM May 25, 2019
landy wrote:
Santa wrote:
spida wrote:
There was so much more carbon in the days of dinosaurs..... in the time when you could grow grapes in Britain.....
The dinosaurs lived on grapes?
rephrase.... there was so much more carbon in the days of the dinosaurs, and in the time when you could grow grapes in Britain
No they used the grapes to make wine.
dorian said
10:34 AM May 26, 2019
I remember when Bertrand and Conner vied for the America's Cup in 1983. When Bertrand lost a race, people who had never stepped on a boat of any kind were asking, "why didn't he tack?"
It's the same with climate change. I prefer to acknowledge my ignorance of the subject and let myself be guided by the majority opinion of scientists rather than the banter of one-eyed radio talk show jockeys.
Can the learned opinions of climate scientists, based on decades of measurement and research, be trusted? Does anyone remember the hole in the ozone layer? These same scientists told us that humans were responsible for it, and governments subsequently took their advice and banned CFCs. Were they right to do so?
On August 2, 2003, scientists announced that the global depletion of the ozone layer may be slowing down because of the international regulation of ozone-depleting substances. In a study organized by the American Geophysical Union, three satellites and three ground stations confirmed that the upper-atmosphere ozone-depletion rate slowed down significantly during the previous decade. Some breakdown can be expected to continue because of ODSs used by nations which have not banned them, and because of gases which are already in the stratosphere. Some ODSs, including CFCs, have very long atmospheric lifetimes, ranging from 50 to over 100 years. It has been estimated that the ozone layer will recover to 1980 levels near the middle of the 21st century. A gradual trend toward "healing" was reported in 2016.
-- Edited by dorian on Sunday 26th of May 2019 10:37:04 AM
Roy E said
10:55 AM May 27, 2019
Gidday all,
I felt that I had to wade into this discussion and offer my tuppence worth.
The debate rages on about carbon and other "climate change" emissions and, probably, none of us will live long enough to see it proven who was right. Thousands of years ago there was an ice age which wiped out many species of flora and fauna. Thousands of years before that, the world was so warm, fauna found now only in tropical/hot regions, flourished in Europe. Who or what caused those massive climate changes? Certainly not man.
I don't believe man has the ability to effect any considerable alteration to the climate.
I do believe we need to look seriously at the rate we are consuming our natural resources because they are finite.
As the world population increases, seemingly exponentially, we have to clear forests to grow more food.
I think most people realize that on a farm, you can only, safely, home a certain number of animals. Too many animals and disease and starvation occur.
Here we are on our beautiful planet with nowhere else to go, destroying our future and happy way of life with over-population.
When will scientist and politicians face the real problem, population growth?
Cheers,
Roy.
the rocket said
11:44 AM May 27, 2019
Roy E wrote:
Gidday all, I felt that I had to wade into this discussion and offer my tuppence worth. The debate rages on about carbon and other "climate change" emissions and, probably, none of us will live long enough to see it proven who was right. Thousands of years ago there was an ice age which wiped out many species of flora and fauna. Thousands of years before that, the world was so warm, fauna found now only in tropical/hot regions, flourished in Europe. Who or what caused those massive climate changes? Certainly not man. I don't believe man has the ability to effect any considerable alteration to the climate. I do believe we need to look seriously at the rate we are consuming our natural resources because they are finite. As the world population increases, seemingly exponentially, we have to clear forests to grow more food. I think most people realize that on a farm, you can only, safely, home a certain number of animals. Too many animals and disease and starvation occur. Here we are on our beautiful planet with nowhere else to go, destroying our future and happy way of life with over-population. When will scientist and politicians face the real problem, population growth? Cheers, Roy.
Over Population of the earth sure is a problem. Dont know the answer.
Seems we need carbon and that more can only be good for life on this planet. A totally different vie from the ones being spruiked for the past 30 years. Someone making money out of carbon credits maybe.
Long but worth a read.
https://www.thegwpf.org/patrick-moore-should-we-celebrate-/
https://www.thegwpf.org/matt-ridley-global-warming-versus-/
-- Edited by spida on Monday 20th of May 2019 09:29:30 AM
If you search hard enough you can find lots of this sort of bumpkin on the net. Almost entirely from unscientific sources that have a barrow to push.
If you still think climate change is not happening try reading literature from scientists that know what they are talking about instead.
Alan
Hi alan, i am really concerned about future generations having to live with it. Scarey stuff.
This is the probably the most spine chilling report on climate change I've personally seen. Four scientists from Australia speak on the subject. It's not what they say about the science that troubles me. They're just confirming what scientists from all around the globe have been saying for 30 years.
It's when they start talking about how they personally feel, knowing what they know, about their own private plans for their own futures.
See if you can watch it and NOT be very concerned for your grand children. I wasn't able to.
Jim
LINK HERE
1) Associate Professor University of New South Wales
Director UNSW Climate Change Research Centre
20 years experience in the field
2) Research Fellowship at University of New South Wales
3) PhD student at Melbourne University
4) Works At Sustainable Development Institute at Monash University
Climate Scientist and Atmospheric Physicist
Head of Inter Governmental Panel on Climate Change
Director Hadley Centre for Climate Change
Vice Chairman World Climate Research Program
Yup....Definite similarities there.
Jim
And these 4 Archie Bunker clones,know where to go to avoid climate change
One is going to Tassie
One is going to Canberra,the days are going to be hot but the nights are cooler,so you can cope.
One has the children learning 3 languages and having 3 passports.so they can be adaptable.Yes they can flit from one place to another when it warms up.Bugger the carbon foot print as they fly to one warm spot to a cooler one.
Where ever that may be.
And the Professer"s computer model says Devon.Cornwell area,good for a hundred years.
So now you all no where to go.
I will stay where I am thanks.
All you people living in Darwin and Brisbane,time to get out.
The Professor said at the 8.51 mark if you live there you should seriously consider moving.
Come on these experts are gotta be taken seriously.
The dinosaurs lived on grapes?
Climate change cant be solved by Australia with its small population when most of the world continues to polute,I suppose we can can throw millions of dollar at it and destroy our economy,but whats the point .not trying to be political because its against forum rules just a commen sense view in my opinion...
-- Edited by Ron-D on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 09:16:21 AM
I totally agree with your basic sentiment Ron. Whatever we do here in Australia won't change much unless the world as a whole chips in and does their bit. And, so far that hasn't happened, and if history and human nature are any indicators, it never will. Until it's too late.
Lowering of our C02 production hopefully may slow things down. Maybe. Not stop it entirely. Renewable energy sources must and WILL become the norm someday. By necessity,
As things get worse we are going to need more electric power to cope. If that is not from renewable sources, the downward spiral will continue.
That's why our efforts as a country today must be, in my opinion, to move towards renewables at a quicker pace. At the start of this cycle, as we are right now, totally reliant on renewables is not feasible. But start making it harder to burn coal and research and development dollars will be channeled into this end, and government infrastructure will have $ invested in it. Lile charging stations for electric cars.
Will all this cost money? Yup. Lots of it. Especially at the start. Get used to it. Change is not optional.
Probably should have put this picture here instead of the other post but I recon it still fits both posts.
I also, (I suppose like many others), also take other environmental articles at face value
My understanding on the original articles, is that the authors are not denying that the temperature is increasing, but are calling it a natural climate change, and that it is all a hoax saying that we should stop carbon going into the atmosphere, as carbon is good
My understanding after reading other climate change articles, is that if we do not stop the temperature rise, caused by mankind, then we are in trouble
My personal opinion, (so I could be wrong), is that I have seen the temperature rise, in my lifetime
I would therefore prefer to do something to slow the temperature rise, than to do nothing
I also dismiss the argument, that as Australia does not put out as much pollution as other countries, then we do not need to do anything
To my way of thinking, doing nothing is the easy way out, and will accomplish nothing
Doing something is the hard way out, and may also accomplish nothing in the big scheme of things, but at least we can say that we tried
Correct, this planet is going through just 1 of the many 'Climate Changes' it has endured since it became a blob of molten rock billions of years ago.
In relatively recent planet history there was an Ice Age when much of the planet pretty much froze.
It has since thawed and is heading into a much warmer cycle.
Between then and now there have been lesser ups and downs of the warm/cool cycles.
There is more Co2 spewed daily from any large volcano than humans have ever created so if they think that humans can
stop, or even slow the change then they need an ego check.
But, lets tax it, that will make us feel better.
I'm all for cleaning up our collective act to make this a more pleasant place to live for the time we have left to live here but, we will never stop the inevitable.
Gday...
Dunno wot all the angst is about ... since last weekend's election result, there is no climate change ... very few voted for it.
Anyway -
According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the worlds volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by todays human endeavors.
Furthermore, some scientists believe that spectacular volcanic eruptions, like that of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 and Mt. Pinatubo in 1991, actually lead to short-term global cooling, not warming, as sulfur dioxide (SO2), ash and other particles in the air and stratosphere reflect some solar energy instead of letting it into Earths atmosphere. SO2, which converts to sulfuric acid aerosol when it hits the stratosphere, can linger there for as long as seven years and can exercise a cooling effect long after a volcanic eruption has taken place.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/?redirect=1
There are many scientific articles on that most trusted of resources, the internet, that dismiss the impact of 'climate change pollution' from volcano action.
Cheers - John
Why and what is causing the change is not clear to me. At the same time I see lots of land clearing and fossil fuel emissions and plastics pollution. Climate change coincides with the destruction of the usual mechanisms the world uses to soak up the emitted carbon. I'm convinced we need to stop doing a lot of things and we need to start doing that about 30 years ago.
Iza
Climate change may well exist but this tiny population in Australia doing it alone with some help from other countries are not going to achieve much alone ,its just a huge waste of taxpayers money we might be climate change heroes I suppose ,but unless most of the world joins in not much will be achieved just my opinion.
Here Here Iza, coming from some0ne whom has a degree in Applied Science (Resource Management) formally employed by Coal and Allied(Rio Tinto, whom promptly after 12 months of employment sent me back to do a degree in Environmental Science). Recently Rio Tinto, unloaded all of it's coal assets, and is moving into renewable assets. It's shareholders demanded it because of Climate Change. Coal and Allied is a company that has been running for 219 years. If they are seeing the light, as the richest Mining company in the world, your deniers should see the light as well. I know you people whom don't believe, will be taught a painful lesson with in 15 years. Their wont be too many places in Australia to live, especially with the lack of rain and drinking water and water for crops and livestock. I have been severely depressed about this problem for the last 20 years. No 0ne will learn and nothing will change in our habits of consistently running a dirty, filthy planet!
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 06:58:55 PM
Thank you Delta. I am so relieved that someone is prepared to think about climate change as an historical thing and that taxing/lowering carbon maybe is not actually the answer. to quote from the article.....
CO2 is the currency of life and the most important building block for all life on Earth. All life is carbon-based, including our own. Surely the carbon cycle and its central role in the creation of life should be taught to our children rather than the demonization of CO2, that carbon is a pollutant that threatens the continuation of life. We know for a fact that CO2 is essential for life and that it must be at a certain level in the atmosphere for the survival of plants, which are the primary food for all the other species alive today. Should we not encourage our citizens, students, teachers, politicians, scientists, and other leaders to celebrate CO2 as the giver of life that it is?
It is a proven fact that plants, including trees and all our food crops, are capable of growing much faster at higher levels of CO2 than present in the atmosphere today. Even at the todays concentration of 400 ppm plants are relatively starved for nutrition. The optimum level of CO2 for plant growth is about 5 times higher, 2000 ppm, yet the alarmists warn it is already too high. They must be challenged every day by every person who knows the truth in this matter. CO2 is the giver of life and we should celebrate CO2 rather than denigrate it as is the fashion today.
We are witnessing the Greening of the Earth as higher levels of CO2, due to human emissions from the use of fossil fuels, promote increased growth of plants around the world. This has been confirmed by scientists with CSIRO in Australia, in Germany, and in North America. Only half of the CO2 we are emitting from the use of fossil fuels is showing up in the atmosphere. The balance is going somewhere else and the best science says most of it is going into an increase in global plant biomass. And what could be wrong with that, as forests and agricultural crops become more productive?
All the CO2 in the atmosphere has been created by outgassing from the Earths core during massive volcanic eruptions. This was much more prevalent in the early history of the Earth when the core was hotter than it is today. During the past 150 million years there has not been enough addition of CO2 to the atmosphere to offset the gradual losses due to burial in sediments.
-- Edited by spida on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 08:57:47 PM
Delta take a good look at the time lines for these historical changes in climate, they occur over thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years. What we are experiencing now has occurred in less than 150 years. Instead of putting your head in the sand try looking at articles from reputed scientists instead of Tony Abbots climate deniers. Start with a Google search of Greenland's ice sheet melting which is fast approaching non reversibility and will lead to a 6 metre sea level rise in the next 30 years. I hope you don't own real estate on the Gold Coast, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth etc.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 24th of May 2019 10:29:48 AM
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 24th of May 2019 10:30:37 AM
I was born on Dec 1st in Canada. The first day of winter. I have a very clear recollection of inviting a friend to my birthday party one year in the late 50's. He queried it because he had observed that my birthday had always coincided with the first snowfalls, and no snow had fallen yet. So, in the late 50's, snow was expected by Dec 1st.
In the late 70's, my daughter travelled to my hometown in December. She was looking forward to experiencing her first white Christmas. My brother was a little concerned because by that time a white Christmas was a 50/50 chance. (It did snow in time that year)
Very early in the new millenium, my nephew wrote that he was hoping it might snow in time for New Years eve that year. It was, at that time a 50/50 chance.
Last winter, the same nephew wrote that it had snowed for the first time that year on New Years eve. He remarked that it had been a long time since they'd had snow 'That early'
But when it does come, it is brutal. Almost as if it was making up for lost time.
All perfectly natural? Happens every billion years or so? You believe what you want to believe. Whatever gets you through the night.
All I am 100% convinced of is, the climate is most definitely changing. Rapidly. We won't stop it, but we best start down the path of coping with it. For every scientist writing that there is nothing to worry about, there are 100 stating the opposite.
Jim
Hello biocamper and welcome to the forum.
If i bought a propertu now, it would be on a hill
-- Edited by the rocket on Friday 24th of May 2019 03:50:40 PM
No they used the grapes to make wine.
-- Edited by dorian on Sunday 26th of May 2019 10:37:04 AM
I felt that I had to wade into this discussion and offer my tuppence worth.
The debate rages on about carbon and other "climate change" emissions and, probably, none of us will live long enough to see it proven who was right. Thousands of years ago there was an ice age which wiped out many species of flora and fauna. Thousands of years before that, the world was so warm, fauna found now only in tropical/hot regions, flourished in Europe. Who or what caused those massive climate changes? Certainly not man.
I don't believe man has the ability to effect any considerable alteration to the climate.
I do believe we need to look seriously at the rate we are consuming our natural resources because they are finite.
As the world population increases, seemingly exponentially, we have to clear forests to grow more food.
I think most people realize that on a farm, you can only, safely, home a certain number of animals. Too many animals and disease and starvation occur.
Here we are on our beautiful planet with nowhere else to go, destroying our future and happy way of life with over-population.
When will scientist and politicians face the real problem, population growth?
Cheers,
Roy.
Over Population of the earth sure is a problem. Dont know the answer.