Possibly. But the controller needs to be at the other end of the cable closer to the battery, so bypass this controller for a start. Cable looks a bit on the light side as best as one can tell, replace the cable while at it.
I have 12awg on the back of my 20 watt panels & 6awg to the battery, for up to 3.9amps in series.
DeBe said
01:22 PM May 19, 2019
Those type of regulators you connect the battery first, then connect the Solar panel. & disconnect in reverse order. If you don't you run the risk of damaging the regulator (read the instructions)
oldbloke said
08:44 PM May 19, 2019
Not interested in improvements at this stage. Just need to know if the cables should be connected. It came like it is, disconnected.
blaze said
10:07 PM May 19, 2019
yes
again
cheers
blaze
daffyfrancis said
10:42 PM May 19, 2019
DeBe wrote:
Those type of regulators you connect the battery first, then connect the Solar panel. & disconnect in reverse order. If you don't you run the risk of damaging the regulator (read the instructions)
I have also been advised on a previous post to cover my panels or turn them face down so they are producing no charge before first connecting to the battery
David
Izabarack said
06:57 AM May 20, 2019
oldbloke wrote:
Just need to know if the cables should be connected.
No and Yes. Read the comments above if you do not want to, possibly, need to buy a new controller.
I wish to make a permanent connection to the house battery in my motorhome so that I can plug in my portable solar panel. I have gleaned from the forum some of the above and it seems to me that I need to take the controller off the back of the portable and mount it close to the battery and run a lead and Anderson plug to the outside of the MH. At present we have 2 permanent panels on the roof feeding to the house battery via their own small controller (10a) which I don't want to interfere with. Will the fact that I will have 2 controllers connected to the battery at the same time cause any problems? Also the local 12V bloke suggested that I buy a new 10m of cable but I cannot recall if he said a cable size. So a couple more questions what size should I use and is 10m a sensible length of run the portable came with about 4-5m. Lastly does joining cable create significant Voltage drop. Any answers to all my questions will be greatly appreciated. Regards Tony
T1 Terry said
03:32 PM May 24, 2019
Hi Tony, if the solar regulators are the PWM type, no problems, if they are both the MPPT type, I wish you the best of luck. You haven't mentioned the portable solar capacity, if 100w or less, 6mm auto cable (4.35mmsq) will be ok, 200w you need 8 gauge cable (8.5mm sq) and anything more than that you need 6 B&S cable (13.5mm sq) This is for the run from the solar panels to the regulator, so both sides of the Anderson plug. I'd recommend 6 B&S cable from the controller to the battery, it should be a short run and the bigger the cable the better.
T1 Terry
PS These cable sizes are for a PWM controller where the panels are connected in parallel. If you are using an MPPT controller, I'm sure someone from that camp will be along soon to try and help you.
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Friday 24th of May 2019 03:34:08 PM
theberrys said
11:45 AM May 25, 2019
Hi T1 Terry thanks for your excellent reply re cable sizing and yes sorry I did omit the portable capacity which from memory was sold as 140 or 160w and also the regulators are PWM type so it sounds as though I need about 1m of 6 B&S cable and do you agree with the local bloke suggesting I buy about 10m of cable assuming he means 8 gauge this would mean I will use about 2m to the Anderson and that would allow me about 8m to move the panel chasing the sun. One last question the existing cabling on the panel appears to be about the same as the photos at the beginning of this post could you hazard a guess as to the sizing. Thanks again Regards Tony
T1 Terry said
01:46 PM May 25, 2019
Hi Tony, cable size is very hard to estimate from the outside of insulation, it is the conductor size that is important. I have see the Rich Solar 60w panels with 4mm sq conductor cables and I've also seen them with 2.5mm sq conductor cables. To be sure to be sure, replace the cable from each connector box on the back of the panel with 6mm auto cable (4.35mm sq) and run the lengths to an Anderson plug, crimp the 2 positives into one lug and the 2 negatives into the other. If you hold your mouth right, you can get 4 lots of 6mm auto cable into the 50 amp Anderson plug lug, I have fitted 5 cables in each but I did need to flare out the lug to get them in. If you haven't got access to a hydraulic crimper to make a good crimp on the lug, stand it on its end between two bits of wood or bricks, heat the lug and fill it with solder, then push the cables in. Trying to do it the out way round will result in the insulation pulling back or even burning exposing a lot of cable conductor outside the Anderson plug when you assemble it. Never try to solder a lug on with the cable laying flat, the solder will wick up inside the insulation making the cable rigid at the point of connection. This will result in the cable snapping inside the conductor after a while and you'll be left scratching your head as to why it doesn't work any more.
The cable between the panels and the vehicle having an Anderson plug each end makes it much easier to deploy and put away each night. We use 6 B&S cable, because we already carry it on bulk drums and there is no such thing as have the cables too big as long as you can still carry them and roll them up :lol: We have added 4mm stainless cables with crimped eye fittings each end and attached to the cable using pieces on heat shrink. We can then add a padlock to the panels that also have a length of the same stainless cable fitted and we have an anchor point where the Anderson plug into the RV is mounted where we can padlock that end to the vehicle. It won't stop a determined thief with an angle grinder, but it will stop the opportunity thief and they are the most common.
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Saturday 25th of May 2019 01:49:51 PM
Whenarewethere said
10:08 PM May 25, 2019
Drill a hole in a block of wood so the Anderson lug sits in the hole neatly. The wood will also act as insulation while heating up the lug.
I stand a 120 watt soldering iron in the end of the lug, 2/3 fill with solder, also warm up the wire with another iron so the wire does not go into the solder cold.
You have to organise your bench so you can do it all in one process, & a clamp or 2 to hold things in place.
I use 6 awg wire for my extension leads which have a cross sectional area 13.3 mm2. Max current only about 4 amps with panels in series, but I want to keep losses to a minimum.
After I heatshrink the back half of the lug & a reasonable length up each wire.
You might need a bit more than 10 metres of extension depending on camping environment, ie trees, & panels have to reach the far side of the vehicle for connection. You could do extensions in 2 lengths, maybe a second extension 50% the length of the first for a bit of flexibility.
theberrys said
10:36 AM May 26, 2019
Hi T1 Terry and Whenarewethere thank you both very much for your detailed and helpful information and it sure sounds like I have a project for next week. Regards Tony
Ron-D said
09:45 AM May 27, 2019
Pwm is the only regulator to use mppt should not be used , your the expert Terry but most people do use mppt ,when you make comments like that you would lose a lot of respect if you made them on a tecko site, here you can get away with it I guess.your in the business Terry of fitting solar systems maybe the old pwm suit your build ,just about everyone I know have mppt fitted and ditched there pwm no probs excellent results charging the batteries ,That statement would have you look foolish if you stated it elsewhere theres no one here Except poor old mate that can argue with you and your wore him down
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 27th of May 2019 09:50:01 AM
T1 Terry said
12:50 PM May 27, 2019
Ron-D wrote:
Pwm is the only regulator to use mppt should not be used , your the expert Terry but most people do use mppt ,when you make comments like that you would lose a lot of respect if you made them on a tecko site, here you can get away with it I guess.your in the business Terry of fitting solar systems maybe the old pwm suit your build ,just about everyone I know have mppt fitted and ditched there pwm no probs excellent results charging the batteries ,That statement would have you look foolish if you stated it elsewhere theres no one here Except poor old mate that can argue with you and your wore him down
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 27th of May 2019 09:50:01 AM
Not the case at all Ron, we use MPPT controllers on the bigger house off grid systems, just ones that can work together in parallel. On a big system the added cost can be factored over the whole system and off set slightly by the reduced cabling costs.
In the case the OP was asking about, this is a very small capacity system installed on the van and a second very small portable system he wants to run in parallel. This would gain nothing by spending the $$ required for two MPPT controllers that will work in parallel so there was no value in suggesting the system be changed to one with high $$ MPPT controllers.
Why this continual attack thing, why can't assistance be offered to someone who asks for help without having to weather yet another attack.
T1 Terry
theberrys said
05:14 PM May 27, 2019
Well in any case I appreciated the help you gave to a mug and I have jus re-read your reply after I had a panic attack looking again at the regulator to note that one + red wire was coming from the panel and the other going to the battery but the re-read confirmed it was OK to feed both into the same + terminal in the Anderson plug By the way it is good to know "your the expert Terry". Regards Tony
Ron-D said
08:58 AM May 28, 2019
T1 Terry wrote:
Ron-D wrote:
Pwm is the only regulator to use mppt should not be used , your the expert Terry but most people do use mppt ,when you make comments like that you would lose a lot of respect if you made them on a tecko site, here you can get away with it I guess.your in the business Terry of fitting solar systems maybe the old pwm suit your build ,just about everyone I know have mppt fitted and ditched there pwm no probs excellent results charging the batteries ,That statement would have you look foolish if you stated it elsewhere theres no one here Except poor old mate that can argue with you and your wore him down
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 27th of May 2019 09:50:01 AM
Not the case at all Ron, we use MPPT controllers on the bigger house off grid systems, just ones that can work together in parallel. On a big system the added cost can be factored over the whole system and off set slightly by the reduced cabling costs.
In the case the OP was asking about, this is a very small capacity system installed on the van and a second very small portable system he wants to run in parallel. This would gain nothing by spending the $$ required for two MPPT controllers that will work in parallel so there was no value in suggesting the system be changed to one with high $$ MPPT controllers.
Why this continual attack thing, why can't assistance be offered to someone who asks for help without having to weather yet another attack.
T1 Terry
Iam not attacking Terry you obviously think you own this segment of the forum ,I should be entitled to my views if they differ from yours so be it ,although Iam not the so called expert ,some of your stuff on mppt gets up my nose they work great on small solar panels ,and on most sites they would be preferred ,but I cant compete with huge pages of text so why bother if you want to educate people to support your way of thinking Terry and fit the useless thing I threw in garbage good luck to them This my last post on this subject dealing with you and your never ending posts is not worth it.we seem to have lost a lot of good info from oldtrack because of your over the top posts and rants.
Are these two red & black leads meant to be connected on my portable panel?
-- Edited by oldbloke on Sunday 19th of May 2019 12:11:58 PM
Possibly. But the controller needs to be at the other end of the cable closer to the battery, so bypass this controller for a start. Cable looks a bit on the light side as best as one can tell, replace the cable while at it.
I have 12awg on the back of my 20 watt panels & 6awg to the battery, for up to 3.9amps in series.
again
cheers
blaze
I have also been advised on a previous post to cover my panels or turn them face down so they are producing no charge before first connecting to the battery
David
No and Yes. Read the comments above if you do not want to, possibly, need to buy a new controller.
Iza
Hi Tony, if the solar regulators are the PWM type, no problems, if they are both the MPPT type, I wish you the best of luck.
You haven't mentioned the portable solar capacity, if 100w or less, 6mm auto cable (4.35mmsq) will be ok, 200w you need 8 gauge cable (8.5mm sq) and anything more than that you need 6 B&S cable (13.5mm sq) This is for the run from the solar panels to the regulator, so both sides of the Anderson plug. I'd recommend 6 B&S cable from the controller to the battery, it should be a short run and the bigger the cable the better.
T1 Terry
PS These cable sizes are for a PWM controller where the panels are connected in parallel. If you are using an MPPT controller, I'm sure someone from that camp will be along soon to try and help you.
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Friday 24th of May 2019 03:34:08 PM
Hi Tony, cable size is very hard to estimate from the outside of insulation, it is the conductor size that is important. I have see the Rich Solar 60w panels with 4mm sq conductor cables and I've also seen them with 2.5mm sq conductor cables. To be sure to be sure, replace the cable from each connector box on the back of the panel with 6mm auto cable (4.35mm sq) and run the lengths to an Anderson plug, crimp the 2 positives into one lug and the 2 negatives into the other. If you hold your mouth right, you can get 4 lots of 6mm auto cable into the 50 amp Anderson plug lug, I have fitted 5 cables in each but I did need to flare out the lug to get them in.
If you haven't got access to a hydraulic crimper to make a good crimp on the lug, stand it on its end between two bits of wood or bricks, heat the lug and fill it with solder, then push the cables in. Trying to do it the out way round will result in the insulation pulling back or even burning exposing a lot of cable conductor outside the Anderson plug when you assemble it. Never try to solder a lug on with the cable laying flat, the solder will wick up inside the insulation making the cable rigid at the point of connection. This will result in the cable snapping inside the conductor after a while and you'll be left scratching your head as to why it doesn't work any more.
The cable between the panels and the vehicle having an Anderson plug each end makes it much easier to deploy and put away each night. We use 6 B&S cable, because we already carry it on bulk drums and there is no such thing as have the cables too big as long as you can still carry them and roll them up :lol:
We have added 4mm stainless cables with crimped eye fittings each end and attached to the cable using pieces on heat shrink. We can then add a padlock to the panels that also have a length of the same stainless cable fitted and we have an anchor point where the Anderson plug into the RV is mounted where we can padlock that end to the vehicle. It won't stop a determined thief with an angle grinder, but it will stop the opportunity thief and they are the most common.
T1 Terry
PS: If you have a look through this listing https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=10+mtr+6+B%26S+cable+with+Anderson+plugs&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=Magnetic+LED+Flash+Emergency+Safety+Road+Flare+Warning+Light+Safety+%2B+Battery. you can find different lengths with the ends already fitted. We bought the 4mm stainless cable and ends etc from Bunnings.
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Saturday 25th of May 2019 01:49:51 PM
Drill a hole in a block of wood so the Anderson lug sits in the hole neatly. The wood will also act as insulation while heating up the lug.
I stand a 120 watt soldering iron in the end of the lug, 2/3 fill with solder, also warm up the wire with another iron so the wire does not go into the solder cold.
You have to organise your bench so you can do it all in one process, & a clamp or 2 to hold things in place.
I use 6 awg wire for my extension leads which have a cross sectional area 13.3 mm2. Max current only about 4 amps with panels in series, but I want to keep losses to a minimum.
After I heatshrink the back half of the lug & a reasonable length up each wire.
You might need a bit more than 10 metres of extension depending on camping environment, ie trees, & panels have to reach the far side of the vehicle for connection. You could do extensions in 2 lengths, maybe a second extension 50% the length of the first for a bit of flexibility.
Pwm is the only regulator to use mppt should not be used , your the expert Terry but most people do use mppt ,when you make comments like that you would lose a lot of respect if you made them on a tecko site, here you can get away with it I guess.your in the business Terry of fitting solar systems maybe the old pwm suit your build ,just about everyone I know have mppt fitted and ditched there pwm no probs excellent results charging the batteries ,That statement would have you look foolish if you stated it elsewhere theres no one here Except poor old mate that can argue with you and your wore him down
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 27th of May 2019 09:50:01 AM
Not the case at all Ron, we use MPPT controllers on the bigger house off grid systems, just ones that can work together in parallel. On a big system the added cost can be factored over the whole system and off set slightly by the reduced cabling costs.
In the case the OP was asking about, this is a very small capacity system installed on the van and a second very small portable system he wants to run in parallel. This would gain nothing by spending the $$ required for two MPPT controllers that will work in parallel so there was no value in suggesting the system be changed to one with high $$ MPPT controllers.
Try reading the whole post I put up Ron https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65556653/portable-solar-panel-connection/?page=1#comment-65568812 If he did have MPPT controllers there was a perfect opening for you to put forward your knowledge regarding multiple MPPT controllers in parallel.
Why this continual attack thing, why can't assistance be offered to someone who asks for help without having to weather yet another attack.
T1 Terry
Iam not attacking Terry you obviously think you own this segment of the forum ,I should be entitled to my views if they differ from yours so be it ,although Iam not the so called expert ,some of your stuff on mppt gets up my nose they work great on small solar panels ,and on most sites they would be preferred ,but I cant compete with huge pages of text so why bother if you want to educate people to support your way of thinking Terry and fit the useless thing I threw in garbage good luck to them This my last post on this subject dealing with you and your never ending posts is not worth it.we seem to have lost a lot of good info from oldtrack because of your over the top posts and rants.
Mine: 6 x 20 watts > MPPT > up to 11.3 amps!