Gross solar feed-in for residential solar installation
dorian said
11:07 AM Apr 14, 2019
Our house has a 1.5kW solar system wired up as a gross feed-in installation. That is, we have 3 meters -- one meter for peak power, a second for off-peak, and a third for solar. The solar output connects to the grid side of the peak and off-peak meters, meaning that we have a gross metering system. However, our energy supplier keeps insisting, without actually physically examining our meter box, that we have a net metering installation. This means that they believe we don't need a smart meter in order to gain the benefits of a net solar tariff (and we don't really).
The reason this is so screwed up is that they charge us 29c for each kWh of peak power, as read by the peak meter, and 12c for each kWh of off-peak power, as read by the off-peak meter. Then they apply a solar credit of 12.5c for each kWh generated by our panels. In other words, they are applying a gross tariff pricing policy.
What they should be doing is subtracting the reading of our solar meter from the readings of the peak and off-peak meters, then applying the 29c per kWh charge to our net consumption. If the solar meter reading exceeds the sum of the peak and off-peak meter readings, then we should receive a credit of 12.5c per kWh for the difference.
Is there anyone here who doesn't understand this? BTW, prior to the solar rebate cutoff date (Dec 31, 2016) we were receiving a 66c per kWh gross tariff for our entire metered solar production. Nothing has changed inside our meter box since then. So why do the desk jockeys think that we now have a net metering setup?
T1 Terry said
01:22 PM Apr 14, 2019
So why do the desk jockeys think that we now have a net metering setup?
That's easy, they can pay you less for your electricity being supplied to the grid for them to resell to the people up the road. They pay you 12.5c/kWh and resell it 100 mtrs up the road for 29c/kWh.
You have 2 options, well 3 really, cop it on the chin, add batteries and resell your solar electricity via one of the power marketing mobs that hold out for the best price, or add more batteries and inverters and tell them where to stick there power cables. Hold on to the meters because it is very likely you had to pay for them in the first place.
Now you pay the same rate for all the power you use, you don't suffer power outages and you don't pay to be connected to the grid. Add up over a yr how much being connected to the grid costs you and the difference between 12.5c/kWh they pay you and the 29c/kWh they resell it and use this to calculate how long it will take to pay for your battery set up and inverters.
The other advantage is you can add as much solar as you want, no one can stop you because you are not selling it back to the grid, you are using your own generated electricity.
T1 Terry
Whenarewethere said
03:40 PM Apr 14, 2019
dorian wrote:
What they should be doing is subtracting the reading of our solar meter from the readings of the peak and off-peak meters
You are selling & buying at different times. To achieve the above you would need a battery & only buy additional electricity when your system does not have enough.
dorian said
08:48 PM Apr 14, 2019
Actually I have a few options, including appealing to the Ombudsman (if their broken web site will let me).
If I can convince the energy company to come and inspect my installation (at their cost), then they will see that I do indeed have a gross metering setup. If I then ask them to move me onto a net feed-in tariff, they will probably insist on installing a "smart meter", with associated costs, both up front and ongoing. That's despite the fact that a smart meter will provide exactly the same information as my existing meters. In fact they tried to sell me a smart meter two years ago. AISI, all I need is for someone with a suitably smart brain to perform a simple subtraction, in exactly the same way that the smart meter would. Is that too much to expect?
T1 Terry said
11:11 AM Apr 15, 2019
The smart meter doesn't just meter what is happening and when it is happening, it also has a direct link back to the electricity supply network so they can switch your solar feed in off if they can get power cheaper else where .... they claim it is for network stability, but it doesn't take much brain power to see through that nonsense.
T1 Terry
Aus-Kiwi said
07:28 PM Apr 15, 2019
Sheesh I have 11kw over 3 phase . I got gas fitted for heating ,cooking . $160 a quarter for natural gas . Eather credit or a few $$. Way under $100 . I rung around . Staying loyal to one electrical supplier doesnt work in your favour . Much the same as banks, Telstra, Foxtel insurance companies . Our power bills where over $1000 per quarter . I worked in the industry. Unlike a butcher etc . You cant bring it home in a bucket !!
dorian said
03:51 PM Apr 18, 2019
Well, I've finally managed to convince them that I am on gross metering for solar. They have now agreed to install a smart meter, at no cost to me. In 2017 they wanted their customers to pay ongoing fees in respect of the smart meter, but this is no longer the case.
As for my off-peak supply, "that supply will not usually be available overnight from 10PM to 7AM and controlled at Endeavour Energy's desecration (sic)".
I have now switched to one of their slightly cheaper plans, with the assurance that I will be better off, without the loss of any existing benefits. Hopefully, there won't be any surprises. In the meantime their accounts department are investigating my complaint of overcharging arising from their net metering misunderstanding.
Aus-Kiwi said
07:46 AM May 15, 2019
Make sure if you have off peak hot water ? To have it ON when solar is efficient . I went natural gas on hot water . My elect usage dropped . Now in credit . Gas is $150 to $200 a quarter . Used a little for house heating and cooking . We mainly have TV and lights on at night . Not much saved there going to batteries . Cant go off grid as the inverters require the mains to keep frequency !! Have not had power bill for 18 months . Since fitting extra panels . 2X 5.6 KW .
stevep1 said
11:29 PM May 17, 2019
Hi Dorian, are you in Vic, if so the 'premium feedin tariff' of $.60 goes to at least 2020.
Your smart meter will count : peak, offpeak, & solar output to grid.
Any solar power consumed within your system won't be known unless you read your own inverter kwhrs and subtract the metered 'to grid' solar.
If you move to a time controlled type tariff eg: peak for daytime and offpeak 2300 to 0700 and all weekend, it may be even more economical. (is for us)
It certainly pays to be aware of the figures and to shop around!!
Our house has a 1.5kW solar system wired up as a gross feed-in installation. That is, we have 3 meters -- one meter for peak power, a second for off-peak, and a third for solar. The solar output connects to the grid side of the peak and off-peak meters, meaning that we have a gross metering system. However, our energy supplier keeps insisting, without actually physically examining our meter box, that we have a net metering installation. This means that they believe we don't need a smart meter in order to gain the benefits of a net solar tariff (and we don't really).
The reason this is so screwed up is that they charge us 29c for each kWh of peak power, as read by the peak meter, and 12c for each kWh of off-peak power, as read by the off-peak meter. Then they apply a solar credit of 12.5c for each kWh generated by our panels. In other words, they are applying a gross tariff pricing policy.
What they should be doing is subtracting the reading of our solar meter from the readings of the peak and off-peak meters, then applying the 29c per kWh charge to our net consumption. If the solar meter reading exceeds the sum of the peak and off-peak meter readings, then we should receive a credit of 12.5c per kWh for the difference.
Is there anyone here who doesn't understand this? BTW, prior to the solar rebate cutoff date (Dec 31, 2016) we were receiving a 66c per kWh gross tariff for our entire metered solar production. Nothing has changed inside our meter box since then. So why do the desk jockeys think that we now have a net metering setup?
That's easy, they can pay you less for your electricity being supplied to the grid for them to resell to the people up the road. They pay you 12.5c/kWh and resell it 100 mtrs up the road for 29c/kWh.
You have 2 options, well 3 really, cop it on the chin, add batteries and resell your solar electricity via one of the power marketing mobs that hold out for the best price, or add more batteries and inverters and tell them where to stick there power cables. Hold on to the meters because it is very likely you had to pay for them in the first place.
Now you pay the same rate for all the power you use, you don't suffer power outages and you don't pay to be connected to the grid. Add up over a yr how much being connected to the grid costs you and the difference between 12.5c/kWh they pay you and the 29c/kWh they resell it and use this to calculate how long it will take to pay for your battery set up and inverters.
The other advantage is you can add as much solar as you want, no one can stop you because you are not selling it back to the grid, you are using your own generated electricity.
T1 Terry
You are selling & buying at different times. To achieve the above you would need a battery & only buy additional electricity when your system does not have enough.
Actually I have a few options, including appealing to the Ombudsman (if their broken web site will let me).
If I can convince the energy company to come and inspect my installation (at their cost), then they will see that I do indeed have a gross metering setup. If I then ask them to move me onto a net feed-in tariff, they will probably insist on installing a "smart meter", with associated costs, both up front and ongoing. That's despite the fact that a smart meter will provide exactly the same information as my existing meters. In fact they tried to sell me a smart meter two years ago. AISI, all I need is for someone with a suitably smart brain to perform a simple subtraction, in exactly the same way that the smart meter would. Is that too much to expect?
T1 Terry
Well, I've finally managed to convince them that I am on gross metering for solar. They have now agreed to install a smart meter, at no cost to me. In 2017 they wanted their customers to pay ongoing fees in respect of the smart meter, but this is no longer the case.
As for my off-peak supply, "that supply will not usually be available overnight from 10PM to 7AM and controlled at Endeavour Energy's desecration (sic)".
I have now switched to one of their slightly cheaper plans, with the assurance that I will be better off, without the loss of any existing benefits. Hopefully, there won't be any surprises. In the meantime their accounts department are investigating my complaint of overcharging arising from their net metering misunderstanding.
Your smart meter will count : peak, offpeak, & solar output to grid.
Any solar power consumed within your system won't be known unless you read your own inverter kwhrs and subtract the metered 'to grid' solar.
If you move to a time controlled type tariff eg: peak for daytime and offpeak 2300 to 0700 and all weekend, it may be even more economical. (is for us)
It certainly pays to be aware of the figures and to shop around!!