The system a Red Arc BC to DC 12250 12v 25 amp DC to DC 3 stage charger to Be used while travelling to charge the battery,A projector intelli charge 12volt 25 amp 7 stage battery charger when on 240.,a portable 180 watt solar panel with a Victron reg near the battery not attached to the solar panel, thats my set up and it works well..can the lead acid battery in the caravan be simply replaced with a lithium some people think it can....
Bill B said
10:55 AM Feb 8, 2019
Bugger me, someone (but his name is John & lives in NSW) on another forum called Darky2018 has exactly the same set up
Ron-D said
04:42 PM Feb 8, 2019
Only dummies use there real names on the internet dont they Bill
T1 Terry said
01:19 AM Feb 9, 2019
The risk is all yours Ron or John or who ever you are, there are very cheap lithium batteries out there and there are way over priced for what you get. If it isn't as simple as just pulling the old lead acid battery out and putting a lithium battery in its place, what have you got to loose? Well money and ...... Not everyone seems to know what they are doing, even if they think they do and mange to convince a rather well known mob that they knew what they were doing www.youtube.com/watch The brand name is good, just the people doing the job were clueless.
How clued up do you reckon the bloke you are gunna buy your lithium battery from is?
T1 Terry
Ron-D said
04:44 PM Feb 9, 2019
Terry you may not hnow this but its possible for a person to have two names and a surname,my charging system is documented On another site thats very popular you used to frequent it,but your no longer there For some reason,from what Iam reading a change to lithium is indeed possible and very simple as my equipment seems to be up to date and preety much spot on...
Bill B said
05:44 PM Feb 9, 2019
Ron-D wrote:
Terry you may not hnow this but its possible for a person to have two names and a surname,...
Suppose you live in both Wollongong & Victoria as well as per your profiles
-- Edited by Bill B on Saturday 9th of February 2019 05:45:17 PM
Mamil said
10:37 PM Feb 9, 2019
Ron-D wrote:
The system a Red Arc BC to DC 12250 12v 25 amp DC to DC 3 stage charger to Be used while travelling to charge the battery,A projector intelli charge 12volt 25 amp 7 stage battery charger when on 240.,a portable 180 watt solar panel with a Victron reg near the battery not attached to the solar panel, thats my set up and it works well..can the lead acid battery in the caravan be simply replaced with a lithium some people think it can....
Is that a Redarc 1225D?
If so it has a Lithium profile built in, so you should be good.
However, some thoughts...
1. Even though the Redarc 1225D has a Lithium profile, be aware the battery you buy - presumably LiFePO4 - still needs an internal BMS.
2. Might want to add a State of Charge monitor and/or a low voltage load disconnect relay as Lithium don't like to be fully discharged, and they have a much flatter voltage profile so it's not so easy to see the state of charge just by looking at the voltage.
3. Check the current capacity of all your components carefully - fuses, wiring, connections, as Lithium batteries have negligible internal resistance and will suck in full amps from your charger, and push out even more if you get a fault somewhere, so you need to check the rest of your system can handle/is protected from it.
4. The Redarc 1225D has a built-in MPPT controller, so why do you need the separate solar controller? In fact it will accept both start battery and solar inputs simultaneously and give the solar priority as it's the "free" source. I've a fixed panel on the roof of my van and when traveling in daylight the solar is providing most of the power to run my fridge and charge the battery in the van, and it just tops up from the car battery as necessary.
5. Lithium don't like to get hot, especially when charging, so if the old LA battery was in a hot location, you might want to consider relocating it somewhere cooler.
I have a Redarc system in my van, and made the switch from AGM to Lithium more than a year ago, and it was pretty much a direct swap, and I've been very happy with the results since.
Hope that's of some help...
-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 9th of February 2019 10:50:21 PM
T1 Terry said
11:28 PM Feb 9, 2019
Go for it Ron, as a very vocal member on this site told us on the Caravanner site, come back in 4 yrs and tell us how it all went. If you do get it right you can expect more than 8yrs and still counting with 100% of the original stated capacity at the 0.5CA (50% of the stated capacity in amps) discharge rate. Looking forward o the 4 yr report
T1 Terry
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Saturday 9th of February 2019 11:29:37 PM
Ron-D said
05:19 PM Feb 10, 2019
Bill B wrote:
Ron-D wrote:
Terry you may not hnow this but its possible for a person to have two names and a surname,...
Suppose you live in both Wollongong & Victoria as well as per your profiles
-- Edited by Bill B on Saturday 9th of February 2019 05:45:17 PM
only When travelling in the van Bill ,does it really matter anyway,why is my personal info so important to you weird very weird,proves how dumb it would be to be furnish it with foolish people digging to deeply into it...
-- Edited by Ron-D on Sunday 10th of February 2019 05:40:50 PM
Ron-D said
05:29 PM Feb 10, 2019
Mamil wrote:
Ron-D wrote:
The system a Red Arc BC to DC 12250 12v 25 amp DC to DC 3 stage charger to Be used while travelling to charge the battery,A projector intelli charge 12volt 25 amp 7 stage battery charger when on 240.,a portable 180 watt solar panel with a Victron reg near the battery not attached to the solar panel, thats my set up and it works well..can the lead acid battery in the caravan be simply replaced with a lithium some people think it can....
Is that a Redarc 1225D?
If so it has a Lithium profile built in, so you should be good.
However, some thoughts...
1. Even though the Redarc 1225D has a Lithium profile, be aware the battery you buy - presumably LiFePO4 - still needs an internal BMS.
2. Might want to add a State of Charge monitor and/or a low voltage load disconnect relay as Lithium don't like to be fully discharged, and they have a much flatter voltage profile so it's not so easy to see the state of charge just by looking at the voltage.
3. Check the current capacity of all your components carefully - fuses, wiring, connections, as Lithium batteries have negligible internal resistance and will suck in full amps from your charger, and push out even more if you get a fault somewhere, so you need to check the rest of your system can handle/is protected from it.
4. The Redarc 1225D has a built-in MPPT controller, so why do you need the separate solar controller? In fact it will accept both start battery and solar inputs simultaneously and give the solar priority as it's the "free" source. I've a fixed panel on the roof of my van and when traveling in daylight the solar is providing most of the power to run my fridge and charge the battery in the van, and it just tops up from the car battery as necessary.
5. Lithium don't like to get hot, especially when charging, so if the old LA battery was in a hot location, you might want to consider relocating it somewhere cooler.
I have a Redarc system in my van, and made the switch from AGM to Lithium more than a year ago, and it was pretty much a direct swap, and I've been very happy with the results since.
Hope that's of some help...
-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 9th of February 2019 10:50:21 PM
It definitely is red arc 1225 recently fitted ,were managing quite well with the agm battery at the moment ,but others with this system might be interested to hnow it Can be a simple conversion and no doubt mine is .so lithium can be a very economically fitted with a bit of research and theres no need to line the pockets of the professionals...
Mamil said
10:23 PM Feb 10, 2019
Ron-D wrote: It definitely is red arc 1225 recently fitted ,were managing quite well with the agm battery at the moment ,but others with this system might be interested to hnow it Can be a simple conversion and no doubt mine is .so lithium can be a very economically fitted with a bit of research and theres no need to line the pockets of the professionals...
There's two different models of Redarc BCDC 1225. Only the one with suffix 'D' has the Lithium profile and two DC inputs so that solar and car can be run simultaneously. The standard BCDC 1225 does not have a Lithium profile and only has one DC input.
Oh, and the bad news is that according to their website, your Projecta Intellicharge 7-stage charger is not suitable for Lithium, and you'd need the Intellicharge Lithium 5-stage model instead.
So, I guess the answer is it can be that simple and a straight swap if your hardware is already the latest Lithium capable models, but otherwise it can get expensive.
-- Edited by Mamil on Sunday 10th of February 2019 10:46:47 PM
T1 Terry said
11:30 PM Feb 10, 2019
Mamil wrote:
Ron-D wrote: It definitely is red arc 1225 recently fitted ,were managing quite well with the agm battery at the moment ,but others with this system might be interested to hnow it Can be a simple conversion and no doubt mine is .so lithium can be a very economically fitted with a bit of research and theres no need to line the pockets of the professionals...
There's two different models of Redarc BCDC 1225. Only the one with suffix 'D' has the Lithium profile and two DC inputs so that solar and car can be run simultaneously. The standard BCDC 1225 does not have a Lithium profile and only has one DC input.
Oh, and the bad news is that according to their website, your Projecta Intellicharge 7-stage charger is not suitable for Lithium, and you'd need the Intellicharge Lithium 5-stage model instead.
So, I guess the answer is it can be that simple and a straight swap if your hardware is already the latest Lithium capable models, but otherwise it can get expensive.
-- Edited by Mamil on Sunday 10th of February 2019 10:46:47 PM
Or you can pay the money to someone who knows what they are doing and keep all the gear you already have and add an interface in between so any charging device becomes lithium charging suitable.
Remember, a good value battery no matter what chemistry it is can have any individual cell replaced if it fails, not throw the whole battery away and buy a new one because one cell failed. You can't replace an individual cell if the battery is all in one case and you won't know a cell needs attention before it gets murdered unless you can see what the voltage of each cell is at a glance.
Lithium can really be that simple, once you have spent the time and money doing the hands on testing. The real question is, are you simple enough to trust a fast talking salesman that they actually know anything about the product they are selling?
Or put another way, do you know enough to be able to pick out the B/S from the facts, or do you need to pay someone who has actually spent the time and money sorting the facts from the nonsense?
My wife actually makes more money sorting systems for people who didn't know they were being conned than she makes from installing custom designed systems. In the end there is only one that is not a compromise that ended up costing a lot more than the initial purchase price. Only one is backed by a full 3 yr phone/email back up that is renewable every 3 yrs for a further 3 yrs after returning for a full system service.
T1 Terry
Mamil said
12:19 AM Feb 11, 2019
T1 Terry wrote:
Mamil wrote:
Ron-D wrote: It definitely is red arc 1225 recently fitted ,were managing quite well with the agm battery at the moment ,but others with this system might be interested to hnow it Can be a simple conversion and no doubt mine is .so lithium can be a very economically fitted with a bit of research and theres no need to line the pockets of the professionals...
There's two different models of Redarc BCDC 1225. Only the one with suffix 'D' has the Lithium profile and two DC inputs so that solar and car can be run simultaneously. The standard BCDC 1225 does not have a Lithium profile and only has one DC input.
Oh, and the bad news is that according to their website, your Projecta Intellicharge 7-stage charger is not suitable for Lithium, and you'd need the Intellicharge Lithium 5-stage model instead.
So, I guess the answer is it can be that simple and a straight swap if your hardware is already the latest Lithium capable models, but otherwise it can get expensive.
-- Edited by Mamil on Sunday 10th of February 2019 10:46:47 PM
Or you can pay the money to someone who knows what they are doing and keep all the gear you already have and add an interface in between so any charging device becomes lithium charging suitable.
Remember, a good value battery no matter what chemistry it is can have any individual cell replaced if it fails, not throw the whole battery away and buy a new one because one cell failed. You can't replace an individual cell if the battery is all in one case and you won't know a cell needs attention before it gets murdered unless you can see what the voltage of each cell is at a glance.
Lithium can really be that simple, once you have spent the time and money doing the hands on testing. The real question is, are you simple enough to trust a fast talking salesman that they actually know anything about the product they are selling?
Or put another way, do you know enough to be able to pick out the B/S from the facts, or do you need to pay someone who has actually spent the time and money sorting the facts from the nonsense?
My wife actually makes more money sorting systems for people who didn't know they were being conned than she makes from installing custom designed systems. In the end there is only one that is not a compromise that ended up costing a lot more than the initial purchase price. Only one is backed by a full 3 yr phone/email back up that is renewable every 3 yrs for a further 3 yrs after returning for a full system service.
T1 Terry
The thing is Lithium technology is still relatively new, so not all equipment is compatible with it, products are expensive, and vary in quality. The technology has specific characteristics that even the manufacturers struggle with understanding, let alone the average auto sparky or van owner. So, there is a niche for vendors who have the knowledge and have invested in proprietary hardware to overcome the current gaps in the market, to offer conversions, custom built systems, and 'consultancy', and who can blame them for charging accordingly!
However, like every new technology, the exotic will eventually become commonplace, and soon I expect every off the shelf charger will include a Lithium profile, just as they cater for LA, Gel, and AGM already. The cost of the batteries will also come down, and at this point it will be relatively cheap, easy, and safe, for the average van owner to convert to Lithium using off the shelf components, and the window of opportunity starts to close for the specialist vendors. Hopefully by then they will have moved onto the next new thing, where their knowledge and services are required, and so the cycle continues.
-- Edited by Mamil on Monday 11th of February 2019 12:21:18 AM
Ron-D said
05:11 PM Feb 11, 2019
Mamil wrote:
Ron-D wrote: It definitely is red arc 1225 recently fitted ,were managing quite well with the agm battery at the moment ,but others with this system might be interested to hnow it Can be a simple conversion and no doubt mine is .so lithium can be a very economically fitted with a bit of research and theres no need to line the pockets of the professionals...
There's two different models of Redarc BCDC 1225. Only the one with suffix 'D' has the Lithium profile and two DC inputs so that solar and car can be run simultaneously. The standard BCDC 1225 does not have a Lithium profile and only has one DC input.
Oh, and the bad news is that according to their website, your Projecta Intellicharge 7-stage charger is not suitable for Lithium, and you'd need the Intellicharge Lithium 5-stage model instead.
So, I guess the answer is it can be that simple and a straight swap if your hardware is already the latest Lithium capable models, but otherwise it can get expensive.
-- Edited by Mamil on Sunday 10th of February 2019 10:46:47 PM
Thanks Mamil at least I now know what I need I cant verify the BCDC charger yet but thanks for your reply and good info...
T1 Terry said
11:29 PM Feb 11, 2019
Hi Mamil, not sure if you remember when AGM batteries were the latest and greatest and there were promises that all previous battery wows were now solved. Turned out to be utter nonsense and as soon as people went to claim on the fantastic warranties offered there were even more excuses as to why the warranty didn't apply because of something the owner had done wrong.
Enter the latest and greatest that not so long back was the devils spawn according to every battery seller you spoke to, "they catch fire," "they explode", "insurance won't cover any vehicle with lithium batteries." Suddenly they know all about them, every manufacturer has a magic "lithium" setting for their equipment .... and in the small print right at the end they put in a disclaimer that the battery must have its own BMS system.
Anyone who knows anything about battery management (BMS) knows the management must have control of all charging and loads so it can protect the battery. The only lithium charger and inverter manufacturer that has an interface for lithium batteries is Victron, and only if you use their Victron Lithium battery and all the Victron gear required to connect each part into a system. Suddenly not so simple is it?
You can be sure it will because it is already happening now, the battery seller will blame the charger manufacturer and the charger manufacturer will blame the battery manufacturer because they clearly warned a BMS was required.
Quality lithium cells are tough, they will handle a few yrs of abuse before you detect serious problems, well outside the warranty period. Poor quality cell will die within 12 mths, good luck getting a warranty claim, even if the seller is still trading under the same name, you will be handed on to a "national Distributor" who will then tell you it was the way you installed the battery and send off the latest piece of techno-babble blaming everything else other than their product and in ver small writing at the end, these batteries must not be installed in parallel or series connection.
I wish I could get a sticky on this post so it can be referred to when the failed lithium battery screams start. It won't be if, it certainly will be when ....
T1 Terry
T1 Terry said
01:01 AM Feb 22, 2019
A bit of light reading for those that think you can still just drop in a few batteries from evilbay and it will all work fine caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php
The system a Red Arc BC to DC 12250 12v 25 amp DC to DC 3 stage charger to Be used while travelling to charge the battery,A projector intelli charge 12volt 25 amp 7 stage battery charger when on 240.,a portable 180 watt solar panel with a Victron reg near the battery not attached to the solar panel, thats my set up and it works well..can the lead acid battery in the caravan be simply replaced with a lithium some people think it can....
Only dummies use there real names on the internet dont they Bill
How clued up do you reckon the bloke you are gunna buy your lithium battery from is?
T1 Terry
Terry you may not hnow this but its possible for a person to have two names and a surname,my charging system is documented On another site thats very popular you used to frequent it,but your no longer there For some reason,from what Iam reading a change to lithium is indeed possible and very simple as my equipment seems to be up to date and preety much spot on...
Suppose you live in both Wollongong & Victoria as well as per your profiles
-- Edited by Bill B on Saturday 9th of February 2019 05:45:17 PM
Is that a Redarc 1225D?
If so it has a Lithium profile built in, so you should be good.
However, some thoughts...
1. Even though the Redarc 1225D has a Lithium profile, be aware the battery you buy - presumably LiFePO4 - still needs an internal BMS.
2. Might want to add a State of Charge monitor and/or a low voltage load disconnect relay as Lithium don't like to be fully discharged, and they have a much flatter voltage profile so it's not so easy to see the state of charge just by looking at the voltage.
3. Check the current capacity of all your components carefully - fuses, wiring, connections, as Lithium batteries have negligible internal resistance and will suck in full amps from your charger, and push out even more if you get a fault somewhere, so you need to check the rest of your system can handle/is protected from it.
4. The Redarc 1225D has a built-in MPPT controller, so why do you need the separate solar controller? In fact it will accept both start battery and solar inputs simultaneously and give the solar priority as it's the "free" source. I've a fixed panel on the roof of my van and when traveling in daylight the solar is providing most of the power to run my fridge and charge the battery in the van, and it just tops up from the car battery as necessary.
5. Lithium don't like to get hot, especially when charging, so if the old LA battery was in a hot location, you might want to consider relocating it somewhere cooler.
I have a Redarc system in my van, and made the switch from AGM to Lithium more than a year ago, and it was pretty much a direct swap, and I've been very happy with the results since.
Hope that's of some help...
-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 9th of February 2019 10:50:21 PM
Go for it Ron, as a very vocal member on this site told us on the Caravanner site, come back in 4 yrs and tell us how it all went. If you do get it right you can expect more than 8yrs and still counting with 100% of the original stated capacity at the 0.5CA (50% of the stated capacity in amps) discharge rate. Looking forward o the 4 yr report
T1 Terry
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Saturday 9th of February 2019 11:29:37 PM
only When travelling in the van Bill ,does it really matter anyway,why is my personal info so important to you weird very weird,proves how dumb it would be to be furnish it with foolish people digging to deeply into it...
-- Edited by Ron-D on Sunday 10th of February 2019 05:40:50 PM
It definitely is red arc 1225 recently fitted ,were managing quite well with the agm battery at the moment ,but others with this system might be interested to hnow it Can be a simple conversion and no doubt mine is .so lithium can be a very economically fitted with a bit of research and theres no need to line the pockets of the professionals...
-- Edited by Mamil on Sunday 10th of February 2019 10:46:47 PM
Or you can pay the money to someone who knows what they are doing and keep all the gear you already have and add an interface in between so any charging device becomes lithium charging suitable.
Remember, a good value battery no matter what chemistry it is can have any individual cell replaced if it fails, not throw the whole battery away and buy a new one because one cell failed. You can't replace an individual cell if the battery is all in one case and you won't know a cell needs attention before it gets murdered unless you can see what the voltage of each cell is at a glance.
Lithium can really be that simple, once you have spent the time and money doing the hands on testing. The real question is, are you simple enough to trust a fast talking salesman that they actually know anything about the product they are selling?
Or put another way, do you know enough to be able to pick out the B/S from the facts, or do you need to pay someone who has actually spent the time and money sorting the facts from the nonsense?
My wife actually makes more money sorting systems for people who didn't know they were being conned than she makes from installing custom designed systems. In the end there is only one that is not a compromise that ended up costing a lot more than the initial purchase price. Only one is backed by a full 3 yr phone/email back up that is renewable every 3 yrs for a further 3 yrs after returning for a full system service.
T1 Terry
The thing is Lithium technology is still relatively new, so not all equipment is compatible with it, products are expensive, and vary in quality. The technology has specific characteristics that even the manufacturers struggle with understanding, let alone the average auto sparky or van owner. So, there is a niche for vendors who have the knowledge and have invested in proprietary hardware to overcome the current gaps in the market, to offer conversions, custom built systems, and 'consultancy', and who can blame them for charging accordingly!
However, like every new technology, the exotic will eventually become commonplace, and soon I expect every off the shelf charger will include a Lithium profile, just as they cater for LA, Gel, and AGM already. The cost of the batteries will also come down, and at this point it will be relatively cheap, easy, and safe, for the average van owner to convert to Lithium using off the shelf components, and the window of opportunity starts to close for the specialist vendors. Hopefully by then they will have moved onto the next new thing, where their knowledge and services are required, and so the cycle continues.
-- Edited by Mamil on Monday 11th of February 2019 12:21:18 AM
Thanks Mamil at least I now know what I need I cant verify the BCDC charger yet but thanks for your reply and good info...
Enter the latest and greatest that not so long back was the devils spawn according to every battery seller you spoke to, "they catch fire," "they explode", "insurance won't cover any vehicle with lithium batteries." Suddenly they know all about them, every manufacturer has a magic "lithium" setting for their equipment .... and in the small print right at the end they put in a disclaimer that the battery must have its own BMS system.
Anyone who knows anything about battery management (BMS) knows the management must have control of all charging and loads so it can protect the battery. The only lithium charger and inverter manufacturer that has an interface for lithium batteries is Victron, and only if you use their Victron Lithium battery and all the Victron gear required to connect each part into a system. Suddenly not so simple is it?
You can be sure it will because it is already happening now, the battery seller will blame the charger manufacturer and the charger manufacturer will blame the battery manufacturer because they clearly warned a BMS was required.
Quality lithium cells are tough, they will handle a few yrs of abuse before you detect serious problems, well outside the warranty period. Poor quality cell will die within 12 mths, good luck getting a warranty claim, even if the seller is still trading under the same name, you will be handed on to a "national Distributor" who will then tell you it was the way you installed the battery and send off the latest piece of techno-babble blaming everything else other than their product and in ver small writing at the end, these batteries must not be installed in parallel or series connection.
I wish I could get a sticky on this post so it can be referred to when the failed lithium battery screams start. It won't be if, it certainly will be when ....
T1 Terry
T1 Terry