I have been recently studying online maps and find that many are sadly lacking in as much as they are not up to date.
It was bought to my attention when I learned that the road from Rolleston to Blackwater in Queensland has been upgraded to bitumen and I believe this work was completed in late 2017 or early 2018.
Maps such as the digital type used by Wiki Camps can be also very outdated in some areas.
The old paper maps were great but for obvious reasons most are not being printed any more probably due to cost.
Does anyone on here have a link or even an app that might be a more accurate resource for trip planning and travel in general?
Possum3 said
10:49 AM Jan 23, 2019
I believe the new Camps 10 book will incorporate the latest HEMA maps - it is due out Feb 2019.
Dickodownunder said
11:22 AM Jan 23, 2019
I have Camps 9 at the moment so here is hoping it has updated info.
I have been looking at apps for trip planning but the free ones I have looked at are old information or not worth the trouble. There may be some good up to date apps available but they are at a cost.
I am not opposed to paying for what I want and need but I was hoping for some input as to their suitability prior to me outlaying any of my hard earned...
-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Wednesday 23rd of January 2019 11:23:35 AM
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:44 AM Jan 23, 2019
There are plenty of paper maps still being printed.
My personal preference is the HEMA 4WD touring atlas of Australia which shows road surfaces and refuelling options in the bush.
I also have a full suite of HEMA digital maps plus 1:250,000, 1:50,000 and some 1:25,000 topographical maps both on my GPS and on my lap top.
Cheers,
Peter
Dickodownunder said
12:04 PM Jan 23, 2019
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the info however when I went to the App Store to view the Explorer App offered by HEMA I was extremely surprised to read the very poor comments posted by current users. I am not opposed to the $50.00 but I would be reluctant to buy any app with such bad reports attached to it. Here is a pic of the one I looked at.
I don't use the app. I use the maps via a HEMA GPS and via OziExplorer software on a lap top.
Cheers,
Peter
Bobdown said
12:09 PM Jan 23, 2019
Be careful about some digital maps for accuracy, copy of news item from Queensland.........
The Queensland government is urging Google to urgently fix its Maps app over claims inflated travel times are deterring tourists to the outback.
Acting premier Cameron Dick said he would send a letter to the head of Google Australia and New Zealand, Mel Silva, asking her to fast-track amendments of the travel times, which outback businesses say add up to six hours to journeys.
One particular drastic example was the trip from Birdsville, on the Queensland border, up to the Western Star Hotel in Windorah.
Google Maps first had the trip, a 380km journey, listed as taking close to 11 hours.
After the company was contacted about the inflated hours, Google dropped the travel time to seven hours, 49 minutes.
While less extreme, the quoted travel time would still leave the driver doing around 50km/h the entire trip.
Local businesses say distances in outback Queensland have been inflated.
We are so dependant on those apps now to get us around cities, to get us around towns, and to get us around big states like Queensland and we need to ensure those apps and the information they are providing are as accurate as possible, Acting premier Cameron Dick told ABC radio today.
Google has already updated some travel times at the request of outback businesses, but even updated journey times are still not accurate.
Outback Queensland Tourism Association General Manager Peter Homan said those planning an outback trip should steer clear of Google Maps until the problem is fixed, and head straight to the source of local knowledge.
Every shire has a Visitor Information Centre, with the best information about travel times, whats going on in the local area, distances, the best watering holes, where to catch fish, Mr Homan told AAP.
They can just give them a call, and theyre also full of local characters so theyll have a good yarn, too.
Mr Homan said tourism was crucial for outback towns struggling with drought, which is entering its eighth year in some regions.
Its incredibly important; its the industry thats keeping a lot of the local communities together, he said.
Its more than money coming into their towns, it gives retailers an opportunity to sell their products, its giving people pride in their towns.
Dickodownunder said
01:46 PM Jan 23, 2019
Yes Bob, I had read about that the other day...I guess it is like most things on the internet.
Radar said
05:41 PM Jan 23, 2019
Dickodownunder wrote:
I have been recently studying online maps and find that many are sadly lacking in as much as they are not up to date.
It was bought to my attention when I learned that the road from Rolleston to Blackwater in Queensland has been upgraded to bitumen and I believe this work was completed in late 2017 or early 2018.
Maps such as the digital type used by Wiki Camps can be also very outdated in some areas.
The old paper maps were great but for obvious reasons most are not being printed any more probably due to cost.
Does anyone on here have a link or even an app that might be a more accurate resource for trip planning and travel in general?
Hi Dicko
We use a app called OsmAnd with some success, in Austraia and overseas. It was real handy in UK on our Samsung 10.1 tablet when wevhired a car and drove around ith no plan.
My wife enjoys using the mapping system, we did pay the small price for it but we run the free version, I can not remember why but was encouraged by our son to pay or donate for app.
When I was planning a tour to Mareeba via Karumba from Brisbane I searhed though paper maps looking for latest sealed roads and found it a bit hit and miss. Did find for Queensland a webb page which allowed me to down load called "a Guide to Queensland Roads". Also had another page with dump points, weighbridges and rest areas. Now all on my tablet, very hany.
Just thinking about it, 8 years now been using the app. Ralph.
-- Edited by Radar on Wednesday 23rd of January 2019 06:08:22 PM
Dickodownunder said
08:13 PM Jan 23, 2019
Thank you Radar, I will have a google look at your suggestion.
Just as a matter of interest with paper maps I went to thr Hema site and had a look and I clicked on a link for a paper map to outback Qld.
I find that this map was actually last updated in 2013 and is for sale currently for $11.95
Not a big cost but no where near up to date either.
I can understand that paper maps need to be printed and would expect this could be a problem with up to date information but 6 years may have updates to roads which would not be included.
On the other hand digital maps on line could quite easily be updated within a much shorter time line but apparently this is generally not happening either.
My search will go on..
Radar said
09:14 PM Jan 23, 2019
Dickodownunder wrote:
Thank you Radar, I will have a google look at your suggestion.
Just as a matter of interest with paper maps I went to thr Hema site and had a look and I clicked on a link for a paper map to outback Qld. I find that this map was actually last updated in 2013 and is for sale currently for $11.95 Not a big cost but no where near up to date either. I can understand that paper maps need to be printed and would expect this could be a problem with up to date information but 6 years may have updates to roads which would not be included. On the other hand digital maps on line could quite easily be updated within a much shorter time line but apparently this is generally not happening either. My search will go on..
Hi Dicko
Do you have state that you are more interested in or all Australia.
I mostly just concentrate on one state or area in particular, that working for me. Ralph.
Radar said
09:17 PM Jan 23, 2019
Dickodownunder wrote:
Thank you Radar, I will have a google look at your suggestion.
Just as a matter of interest with paper maps I went to thr Hema site and had a look and I clicked on a link for a paper map to outback Qld. I find that this map was actually last updated in 2013 and is for sale currently for $11.95 Not a big cost but no where near up to date either. I can understand that paper maps need to be printed and would expect this could be a problem with up to date information but 6 years may have updates to roads which would not be included. On the other hand digital maps on line could quite easily be updated within a much shorter time line but apparently this is generally not happening either. My search will go on..
Hi Dicko
Do you have state that you are more interested in or all Australia.
I mostly just concentrate on one state or area in particular, that working for me. Ralph.
Dickodownunder said
09:29 PM Jan 23, 2019
Hi Radar, At present I am more interested in Queensland rural and outback. There are developmental roads that are being upgraded and other roads improved for mining activities.
From my observations some of the best remote roads in this country are supported by mining activity. I dont know what it is but the companies that construct these mining roads actually know where to hire qualified final trim grader operators.
-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Wednesday 23rd of January 2019 09:30:10 PM
The Belmont Bear said
08:35 AM Jan 24, 2019
Thanks Dicko this topic has come up at just the right time for us as we are planning to leave on a Tassie road trip in a couple of weeks time and I intended going to the NRMA to get some updated paper maps for Victoria and Tassie. When I looked on their website I see that they are no longer supplying road maps to members. We have all that digital stuff on Ipad, iPhone, Apple car play and built in sat nav in the car which are all fine for point to point navigation but you can't beat being able to lay out a paper map when planning your trip. This is especially true planning day to day activities when travelling in a group like we will be on this trip..I have heard a lot about the Camps books from you guys do they have road maps for all areas of Australia and are they a reasonable substitute for a paper map ? The other question I have is should I buy Camps 9 or wait until Camps 10 comes out mid February which may be just after we leave ?
Cheers BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Thursday 24th of January 2019 08:36:20 AM
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Thursday 24th of January 2019 08:37:11 AM
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:24 AM Jan 24, 2019
The Belmont Bear wrote:
..I have heard a lot about the Camps books from you guys do they have road maps for all areas of Australia and are they a reasonable substitute for a paper map ? The other question I have is should I buy Camps 9 or wait until Camps 10 comes out mid February which may be just after we leave ?
Camps books use HEMA maps, but with less information (there is no places index at the back and the refuelling info for outback places is missing) compared with the HEMA Touring Atlas which is similar, but also available in larger format and has more detailed maps for some areas. The HEMA Atlas is the only paper maps that we carry, but a Camps book would generally be sufficient (we carry both).
Camps comes out every second year, so that will be reflected in the accuracy of 10 Vs 9.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Thursday 24th of January 2019 09:27:27 AM
PeterD said
11:47 AM Jan 24, 2019
Bobdown wrote:
Be careful about some digital maps for accuracy, copy of news item from Queensland.........
The Queensland government is urging Google to urgently fix its Maps app over claims inflated travel times are deterring tourists to the outback.
Snip
Call me pedantic if you like. The bit I snipped did not say anything about the accuracy of Google Maps. They were complaining about the timing bit of the navigation calculator accompanying the maps. I actually find the maps to be quite accurate position wise. They do however get a bit muddled in calculating the best routes as the road surface info seems to be inaccurate in certain areas. The complaints made to Google have little to do with map accuracy in my view.
Wit regards to map accuracy, I think the Hema database would be the most accurate of any of the Oz wide systems. They have several cars out there driving most of the roads, that includes many of the 4WD tracks. The big problem is to get the latest updates from that database. Peter (from P-n-M) seems to be getting the best available access to their database. Their printed maps would have the oldest access to their database.
Despite the poor accuracy of the road surface in printed maps I think that 10 - 15 year old printed maps are sufficient to do your wide area planning. Printed maps have never been a particularly good source of road surface info. If you are one of those who likes maps then use the older maps to rough out your journey. Then if you suspect that some roads may have been updated then use other sources that may have later updated info but are fairly useless for wide ares planning. Then cross check the info by asking for info from travelers on this forum or perhaps forums more related to 4WD travelers.
When it comes to estimating times, travel planners are based around solo travelers traveling to the maximum road speeds or driving to the conditions. When we tow a van all that info goes out the door. We have to calculate our own times as they will all be longer than any "accurate" travel planner times.
There is little point in whinging about something that is not likely to be fixed. Be a bit smarter and learn to get around the situation. After a few outback trips you will learn to interpret the maps and get good value from them.
I post this not to have a go at bob but to provide some guidance to the newer members.
PeterD said
11:56 AM Jan 24, 2019
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
The Belmont Bear wrote:
..I have heard a lot about the Camps books from you guys do they have road maps for all areas of Australia and are they a reasonable substitute for a paper map ? The other question I have is should I buy Camps 9 or wait until Camps 10 comes out mid February which may be just after we leave ?
Camps books use HEMA maps, but with less information (there is no places index at the back and the refuelling info for outback places is missing) compared with the HEMA Touring Atlas which is similar, but also available in larger format and has more detailed maps for some areas. The HEMA Atlas is the only paper maps that we carry, but a Camps book would generally be sufficient (we carry both).
Camps comes out every second year, so that will be reflected in the accuracy of 10 Vs 9.
Agreed. They are are my preferred paper maps when on the road. I think that NRMA still provide the Oz wide map. The navigator did get one a year or two back when she went in to see if hey still had any remnants of the more detailed maps.
It's a pity you did not raise this earlier. Around the new year, CAW were offering discounts on pre-ordered editions.
Bobdown said
11:56 AM Jan 24, 2019
No offence taken Peter, I just cut and posted the article that I had read earlier.
Time taken to do a trip is a personal preference, some go flat out, others take all day,
as long as you get there in the end.
I think it doesn't hurt to have a bit of both, digital and paper, and a missus with good eyesight !!
Cheers Bob
The Belmont Bear said
06:56 PM Jan 24, 2019
The wife dropped into the NRMA today to see what they had and they defintely didn't have any touring maps available. Thanks for the tip Peter I think that I will invest in the Hema Australian Road and 4WD Atlas and later on probably pick up Camps 10 after it's been released. We will be hooking up the van and heading to Broken Hill, then down to Kangaroo Island and back along the Murray when we get back from our Tassie road trip so no doubt we will make good use of them then. My paper maps are more sticky tape than paper they have been used so much they tend to split where you fold them.
Cheers
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Thursday 24th of January 2019 06:57:17 PM
Must have driven 50kms around Newcastle today before I finally found a copy of the Hema Road Atlas spiral bound in the larger size. The bigger retailers who advertise it on line like BCF, Auto One etc. said that they never carry the Road Atlas in stock but place orders for it if people want them. Finally found the 2018 edition on the shelf at RTM (Road Tech Marine) for $34 I could have also got Camps 9 but I,ll wait for a couple of weeks and get the new version 10.
Thanks guys for your advice the road atlas looks good.
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Friday 25th of January 2019 07:28:39 PM
Possum3 said
10:24 AM Jan 27, 2019
They charged an extra $9.00 just for keeping it on the shelf.
I have been recently studying online maps and find that many are sadly lacking in as much as they are not up to date.
It was bought to my attention when I learned that the road from Rolleston to Blackwater in Queensland has been upgraded to bitumen and I believe this work was completed in late 2017 or early 2018.
Maps such as the digital type used by Wiki Camps can be also very outdated in some areas.
The old paper maps were great but for obvious reasons most are not being printed any more probably due to cost.
Does anyone on here have a link or even an app that might be a more accurate resource for trip planning and travel in general?
I have Camps 9 at the moment so here is hoping it has updated info.
I have been looking at apps for trip planning but the free ones I have looked at are old information or not worth the trouble.
There may be some good up to date apps available but they are at a cost.
I am not opposed to paying for what I want and need but I was hoping for some input as to their suitability prior to me outlaying any of my hard earned...
-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Wednesday 23rd of January 2019 11:23:35 AM
My personal preference is the HEMA 4WD touring atlas of Australia which shows road surfaces and refuelling options in the bush.
I also have a full suite of HEMA digital maps plus 1:250,000, 1:50,000 and some 1:25,000 topographical maps both on my GPS and on my lap top.
Cheers,
Peter
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the info however when I went to the App Store to view the Explorer App offered by HEMA I was extremely surprised to read the very poor comments posted by current users.
I am not opposed to the $50.00 but I would be reluctant to buy any app with such bad reports attached to it.
Here is a pic of the one I looked at.
Cheers,
Peter
The Queensland government is urging Google to urgently fix its Maps app over claims inflated travel times are deterring tourists to the outback.
Acting premier Cameron Dick said he would send a letter to the head of Google Australia and New Zealand, Mel Silva, asking her to fast-track amendments of the travel times, which outback businesses say add up to six hours to journeys.
One particular drastic example was the trip from Birdsville, on the Queensland border, up to the Western Star Hotel in Windorah.
Google Maps first had the trip, a 380km journey, listed as taking close to 11 hours.
After the company was contacted about the inflated hours, Google dropped the travel time to seven hours, 49 minutes.
While less extreme, the quoted travel time would still leave the driver doing around 50km/h the entire trip.
Local businesses say distances in outback Queensland have been inflated.
We are so dependant on those apps now to get us around cities, to get us around towns, and to get us around big states like Queensland and we need to ensure those apps and the information they are providing are as accurate as possible, Acting premier Cameron Dick told ABC radio today.
Google has already updated some travel times at the request of outback businesses, but even updated journey times are still not accurate.
Outback Queensland Tourism Association General Manager Peter Homan said those planning an outback trip should steer clear of Google Maps until the problem is fixed, and head straight to the source of local knowledge.
Every shire has a Visitor Information Centre, with the best information about travel times, whats going on in the local area, distances, the best watering holes, where to catch fish, Mr Homan told AAP.
They can just give them a call, and theyre also full of local characters so theyll have a good yarn, too.
Mr Homan said tourism was crucial for outback towns struggling with drought, which is entering its eighth year in some regions.
Its incredibly important; its the industry thats keeping a lot of the local communities together, he said.
Its more than money coming into their towns, it gives retailers an opportunity to sell their products, its giving people pride in their towns.
Hi Dicko
We use a app called OsmAnd with some success, in Austraia and overseas. It was real handy in UK on our Samsung 10.1 tablet when wevhired a car and drove around ith no plan.
My wife enjoys using the mapping system, we did pay the small price for it but we run the free version, I can not remember why but was encouraged by our son to pay or donate for app.
When I was planning a tour to Mareeba via Karumba from Brisbane I searhed though paper maps looking for latest sealed roads and found it a bit hit and miss. Did find for Queensland a webb page which allowed me to down load called "a Guide to Queensland Roads". Also had another page with dump points, weighbridges and rest areas. Now all on my tablet, very hany.
Just thinking about it, 8 years now been using the app. Ralph.
-- Edited by Radar on Wednesday 23rd of January 2019 06:08:22 PM
Just as a matter of interest with paper maps I went to thr Hema site and had a look and I clicked on a link for a paper map to outback Qld.
I find that this map was actually last updated in 2013 and is for sale currently for $11.95
Not a big cost but no where near up to date either.
I can understand that paper maps need to be printed and would expect this could be a problem with up to date information but 6 years may have updates to roads which would not be included.
On the other hand digital maps on line could quite easily be updated within a much shorter time line but apparently this is generally not happening either.
My search will go on..
Hi Dicko
Do you have state that you are more interested in or all Australia.
I mostly just concentrate on one state or area in particular, that working for me. Ralph.
Hi Dicko
Do you have state that you are more interested in or all Australia.
I mostly just concentrate on one state or area in particular, that working for me. Ralph.
Hi Radar,
At present I am more interested in Queensland rural and outback.
There are developmental roads that are being upgraded and other roads improved for mining activities.
From my observations some of the best remote roads in this country are supported by mining activity.
I dont know what it is but the companies that construct these mining roads actually know where to hire qualified final trim grader operators.
-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Wednesday 23rd of January 2019 09:30:10 PM
Thanks Dicko this topic has come up at just the right time for us as we are planning to leave on a Tassie road trip in a couple of weeks time and I intended going to the NRMA to get some updated paper maps for Victoria and Tassie. When I looked on their website I see that they are no longer supplying road maps to members. We have all that digital stuff on Ipad, iPhone, Apple car play and built in sat nav in the car which are all fine for point to point navigation but you can't beat being able to lay out a paper map when planning your trip. This is especially true planning day to day activities when travelling in a group like we will be on this trip..I have heard a lot about the Camps books from you guys do they have road maps for all areas of Australia and are they a reasonable substitute for a paper map ? The other question I have is should I buy Camps 9 or wait until Camps 10 comes out mid February which may be just after we leave ?
Cheers
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Thursday 24th of January 2019 08:36:20 AM
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Thursday 24th of January 2019 08:37:11 AM
Camps books use HEMA maps, but with less information (there is no places index at the back and the refuelling info for outback places is missing) compared with the HEMA Touring Atlas which is similar, but also available in larger format and has more detailed maps for some areas. The HEMA Atlas is the only paper maps that we carry, but a Camps book would generally be sufficient (we carry both).
Camps comes out every second year, so that will be reflected in the accuracy of 10 Vs 9.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Thursday 24th of January 2019 09:27:27 AM
Call me pedantic if you like. The bit I snipped did not say anything about the accuracy of Google Maps. They were complaining about the timing bit of the navigation calculator accompanying the maps. I actually find the maps to be quite accurate position wise. They do however get a bit muddled in calculating the best routes as the road surface info seems to be inaccurate in certain areas. The complaints made to Google have little to do with map accuracy in my view.
Wit regards to map accuracy, I think the Hema database would be the most accurate of any of the Oz wide systems. They have several cars out there driving most of the roads, that includes many of the 4WD tracks. The big problem is to get the latest updates from that database. Peter (from P-n-M) seems to be getting the best available access to their database. Their printed maps would have the oldest access to their database.
Despite the poor accuracy of the road surface in printed maps I think that 10 - 15 year old printed maps are sufficient to do your wide area planning. Printed maps have never been a particularly good source of road surface info. If you are one of those who likes maps then use the older maps to rough out your journey. Then if you suspect that some roads may have been updated then use other sources that may have later updated info but are fairly useless for wide ares planning. Then cross check the info by asking for info from travelers on this forum or perhaps forums more related to 4WD travelers.
When it comes to estimating times, travel planners are based around solo travelers traveling to the maximum road speeds or driving to the conditions. When we tow a van all that info goes out the door. We have to calculate our own times as they will all be longer than any "accurate" travel planner times.
There is little point in whinging about something that is not likely to be fixed. Be a bit smarter and learn to get around the situation. After a few outback trips you will learn to interpret the maps and get good value from them.
I post this not to have a go at bob but to provide some guidance to the newer members.
Agreed. They are are my preferred paper maps when on the road. I think that NRMA still provide the Oz wide map. The navigator did get one a year or two back when she went in to see if hey still had any remnants of the more detailed maps.
It's a pity you did not raise this earlier. Around the new year, CAW were offering discounts on pre-ordered editions.
Time taken to do a trip is a personal preference, some go flat out, others take all day,
as long as you get there in the end.
I think it doesn't hurt to have a bit of both, digital and paper, and a missus with good eyesight !!
Cheers Bob
The wife dropped into the NRMA today to see what they had and they defintely didn't have any touring maps available. Thanks for the tip Peter I think that I will invest in the Hema Australian Road and 4WD Atlas and later on probably pick up Camps 10 after it's been released. We will be hooking up the van and heading to Broken Hill, then down to Kangaroo Island and back along the Murray when we get back from our Tassie road trip so no doubt we will make good use of them then. My paper maps are more sticky tape than paper they have been used so much they tend to split where you fold them.
Cheers
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Thursday 24th of January 2019 06:57:17 PM
Must have driven 50kms around Newcastle today before I finally found a copy of the Hema Road Atlas spiral bound in the larger size. The bigger retailers who advertise it on line like BCF, Auto One etc. said that they never carry the Road Atlas in stock but place orders for it if people want them. Finally found the 2018 edition on the shelf at RTM (Road Tech Marine) for $34 I could have also got Camps 9 but I,ll wait for a couple of weeks and get the new version 10.
Thanks guys for your advice the road atlas looks good.
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Friday 25th of January 2019 07:28:39 PM