Sorry, but removing the link, it was posted on the understanding it would not be broadcast.
One wonders how organisations can get the figures that make up the graphs. Does Jo Blow and family inform the data collection agency before going on a camping trip.
One wonders if the same group has done a study on the Impact of providing "Chalets and Holiday Cabins" have had on the Motel and Hotel industry. Or is that being unfair.
-- Edited by iana on Saturday 12th of January 2019 08:17:54 AM
meetoo said
10:49 PM Jan 11, 2019
Seems like a very one sided argument. According to that report, we are a dying breed, hardly to be considered.
Cheers, John.
Desert Dweller said
04:45 AM Jan 12, 2019
If your only income was owning a CP in a town would you like the shire to set up a free camp near you, probably not?
As someone in another thread stated recently, people that use CP's spend money in town, probably more than free campers.
Izabarack said
07:09 AM Jan 12, 2019
Desert Dweller wrote:
......., people that use CP's spend money in town, probably more than free campers.
Free campers spend their money all over town rather than the first part of it in one place only. I see the Caravan Park's push to get first bite on any money coming into a town as taking advantage over the other businesses in a town.
Iza
iana said
08:00 AM Jan 12, 2019
What is "Non-Compliant" camping ?
Kebbin said
08:52 AM Jan 12, 2019
Whatever you deleted makes this thread nonsensical to those of us that didn't see the original post.
moamajohn said
08:54 AM Jan 12, 2019
Yes Kebbin.A waste of print .
Ron-D said
08:54 AM Jan 12, 2019
The huge volume of caravans and mobile homes that are on the road now and growing everyday,need other options to caravan parks ,why Do people buying modern rigs that are fully self contained need to be paying paying for facilities that they dont need , just to line the pockets of caravan park owners,most dont need there toilates,there showers,there electricity ,there pools.there jumping castles there camp kitchens ect,why be forced to pay for it ,we dont mind paying a small fee for the use of there ground , water supply ,dump point .a small fee is fair seeing we dont need facilities that require much expenditure there should be low cost grounds made available to cater for the modern rigs.
Knightrider said
09:57 AM Jan 12, 2019
I am amazed about the many whingers regarding Caravan Park Owners. When I spend money at a caravan park in a town, then there is a very good chance I have helped that Caravan park owner to keep people employed which in turn spend money at the local supermarket, butcher, bakery newsagent etc which also helps them keep locals employed. In fact, those caravanners staying in caravan parks will spend more in that town than the "free campers" outside of town. Free campers & caravanners all need food, fuel etc, so those using caravan parks actually spend more money than the "free campers". So you "free campers", get off your whinging high ground because caravan park owners & their customers are actually doing more for the town than what you are.
Hewy54 said
12:19 PM Jan 12, 2019
Ron-D wrote:
The huge volume of caravans and mobile homes that are on the road now and growing everyday,need other options to caravan parks ,why Do people buying modern rigs that are fully self contained need to be paying paying for facilities that they dont need , just to line the pockets of caravan park owners,most dont need there toilates,there showers,there electricity ,there pools.there jumping castles there camp kitchens ect,why be forced to pay for it ,we dont mind paying a small fee for the use of there ground , water supply ,dump point .a small fee is fair seeing we dont need facilities that require much expenditure there should be low cost grounds made available to cater for the modern rigs.
Very simple. If you do not need the facilities of a caravan park, do not go there.
Seems to be a few people who seem to think they are entitled to free camping. If anyone use a bin or a dump point, someone has to pay for that facility.
Desert Dweller said
03:36 PM Jan 12, 2019
Izabarack wrote:
Desert Dweller wrote:
......., people that use CP's spend money in town, probably more than free campers.
Free campers spend their money all over town rather than the first part of it in one place only. I see the Caravan Park's push to get first bite on any money coming into a town as taking advantage over the other businesses in a town.
Iza
When we stay in a CP we unhitch, shop at the supermarket, top up with gas & deisel, go out for dinner at a club or pub etc.
Our caravan is secure back in the CP which is far better than not unhitching in a non-secure free camp.
What are you trying to say? If you pay to stay in a CP you can't afford to spend any other money in that town?
Recently while staying in Cobar CP we went to the bowling club for dinner (two free drink vouchers from the CP), the club was packed with people staying at the CP. We ran into them all in the supermarket the next morning as well.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Saturday 12th of January 2019 03:42:14 PM
Ron-D said
04:27 PM Jan 12, 2019
Hewy54 wrote:
Ron-D wrote:
The huge volume of caravans and mobile homes that are on the road now and growing everyday,need other options to caravan parks ,why Do people buying modern rigs that are fully self contained need to be paying paying for facilities that they dont need , just to line the pockets of caravan park owners,most dont need there toilates,there showers,there electricity ,there pools.there jumping castles there camp kitchens ect,why be forced to pay for it ,we dont mind paying a small fee for the use of there ground , water supply ,dump point .a small fee is fair seeing we dont need facilities that require much expenditure there should be low cost grounds made available to cater for the modern rigs.
Very simple. If you do not need the facilities of a caravan park, do not go there.
Seems to be a few people who seem to think they are entitled to free camping. If anyone use a bin or a dump point, someone has to pay for that facility.
Hewy freecamping and caravan parks are both good we use both ,but I think caravan parks that are set up without all the silly frills that nomads dont need would have a huge market and they would be more economic ,they would be cheaper to build for the owners and fill the gap that nomads need,it wont happen of course....
Hewy54 said
04:53 PM Jan 12, 2019
Ron-D
On a recent trip from Adelaide north and west, we were able to find a good mix of caravan parks, national parks, low cost camping and free camping.
It hurt the hip pocket when we decided to have a bit of luxury at Cable beach and paid $48 for a non powered postage stamp site. Lesson learned and we moved out of town.
We found some great low cost parks (eg Ceduna Foreshore for $32 and fantastic facilities) and just stayed away from Big 4 and the like.
Average cost of parks was around the $40 mark, but overall average for the trip was around $22 per night.
I do feel for caravan parks in some of the bigger places. They have to cater for all and try to turn a profit.
Brenda and Alan said
10:24 PM Jan 12, 2019
If you want a caravan park that doesn't have all the Bells & Whistles try Kui van parks, They are a growing group of van parks that seem to realise there is money in grey nomads.
Alan
PeterX said
07:41 AM Jan 13, 2019
Is this the document? Found with extensive google searching.
Is this the document? Found with extensive google searching.
Yep, that's the one Peter, nothing more than hysterical self serving propaganda and misinformation from the Caravan Industry Assoc of Australia.
Talk about fake news and biased alternative facts, guess the association members loved it.
Unsure why the original link was deleted when the report is freely available (was it meant to be confidential?)
Bit of a storm in a tea cup really, wait until super markets etc open their car parks to overnight stays as many do in the US, I can hear the screams from van park owners already.
The following businesses most often allow RVers to spend the night.
"As night falls, the motels and R.V. parks along Americas highways begin to fill up with travelers needing a place for the night.
But to untold thousands of motorists each year some with a sense of adventure, others looking to save a buck, still more with no other place to go Walmart is often a willing host for overnight guests.
Its not pretty: no pine trees, no bubbling brook, no ocean beach, Chuck Woodbury, the editor of RVTravel.com, said in a tutorial video intended for casual travelers. The idea of staying at Walmart is to park for the night, to get some sleep and then move on.
Walmarts practice of letting people populate many of its parking lots has made the retail giants stores a reliable, if somewhat improvised, destination and a place where an informal culture emerges before and after dark."
Very interesting reading PeterD. It is good to see a definition of resting which allows a 20 hour stay.
montie said
12:10 PM Jan 14, 2019
Don't know about fake news but this is certainly now old news.
A recent court ruling in Rockhampton regarding free camping at Kershaw gardens ordered that the site be closed because it was non compliant with urban regulations. Any free camping area within an urban area will now be required to meet the same compliancing regulations as caravan parks.
This topic was beaten to death in another thread just recently.
madaboutled said
03:58 PM Jan 14, 2019
iana wrote:
What is "Non-Compliant" camping ?
After reading the document my interpretation is according to the Caravan Parks Association its ANY camping that's not done in a caravan park. This includes National Parks, State Forests, Private Property, Free Camps, Rest Areas and or anything that's not a caravan park.
iana said
04:40 PM Jan 14, 2019
If a caravan park only allowed fully contained vans into its premises, to comply would it only have to have a dump point?
Dick0 said
06:05 PM Jan 14, 2019
Izabarack wrote:
Desert Dweller wrote:
......., people that use CP's spend money in town, probably more than free campers.
Free campers spend their money all over town rather than the first part of it in one place only. I see the Caravan Park's push to get first bite on any money coming into a town as taking advantage over the other businesses in a town.
Iza
A good point Iza.
I would like to hear from long term travellers...those out and about in the Playground for 9 months or more...who frequent, support and stay only at CP's. Doing the sums, 270 nights x average $40pn aquates to $10,800 for 9 months accommodation alone, then double that for local shopping and eating out then additional for fuel. (Going by the expense accounts of some posting here). Good luck to you if you have that cash to splash...I would say most long term travellers don't. I don't. But I don't look at free camping as a right...it is a privilege and if it is provided I use the facilities whenever I can and respect that privilege of facilities.
My spending goes directly to the businesses that support my needs. Furthermore, as a free camper, I believe that I support towns in a greater capacity by staying longer in the area than most CP stayers. Yes, I do stay at CP's but only for security and safety in places that warrant it, and I don't care how much I spend at these CP's for that security.
The argument for or against CP's is ridiculous...as is the argument of which red wines are the best!
You choose what best serves your lifestyle and budget.
Just putting it out there.
brickies said
07:38 PM Jan 14, 2019
Dicko you are so right but nobody will win these debates which have been going on since I join the forum in 2007 and the red wine and white wine is a good point .
montie said
08:29 PM Jan 14, 2019
As I posted earlier, unfortunately the precedent has been set by a court ruling.
Nothing to do with your camping preferences,how much it costs, your opinion about local councils or the caravan association or what you think should happen......all camping facilities in an Urban area must now meet the same compliancing regulations....that's the reality.
We had 5 pages of debate in another thread on this topic which I tried to copy but was unable to do so. That thread was closed by admin.
PeterX said
09:17 AM Jan 15, 2019
Hi , does any one have a link to actual court case decision?
rockylizard said
09:56 AM Jan 15, 2019
PeterX wrote:
Hi , does any one have a link to actual court case decision?
Gday...
Here ya go - it has been posted a couple of times on posts regarding Kershaw Gardens ... get a cuppa and sit down and digest it slowly
Sorry, but removing the link, it was posted on the understanding it would not be broadcast.
One wonders how organisations can get the figures that make up the graphs. Does Jo Blow and family inform the data collection agency before going on a camping trip.
One wonders if the same group has done a study on the Impact of providing "Chalets and Holiday Cabins" have had on the Motel and Hotel industry. Or is that being unfair.
-- Edited by iana on Saturday 12th of January 2019 08:17:54 AM
Seems like a very one sided argument. According to that report, we are a dying breed, hardly to be considered.
Cheers, John.
As someone in another thread stated recently, people that use CP's spend money in town, probably more than free campers.
Free campers spend their money all over town rather than the first part of it in one place only. I see the Caravan Park's push to get first bite on any money coming into a town as taking advantage over the other businesses in a town.
Iza
The huge volume of caravans and mobile homes that are on the road now and growing everyday,need other options to caravan parks ,why Do people buying modern rigs that are fully self contained need to be paying paying for facilities that they dont need , just to line the pockets of caravan park owners,most dont need there toilates,there showers,there electricity ,there pools.there jumping castles there camp kitchens ect,why be forced to pay for it ,we dont mind paying a small fee for the use of there ground , water supply ,dump point .a small fee is fair seeing we dont need facilities that require much expenditure there should be low cost grounds made available to cater for the modern rigs.
I am amazed about the many whingers regarding Caravan Park Owners. When I spend money at a caravan park in a town, then there is a very good chance I have helped that Caravan park owner to keep people employed which in turn spend money at the local supermarket, butcher, bakery newsagent etc which also helps them keep locals employed. In fact, those caravanners staying in caravan parks will spend more in that town than the "free campers" outside of town. Free campers & caravanners all need food, fuel etc, so those using caravan parks actually spend more money than the "free campers". So you "free campers", get off your whinging high ground because caravan park owners & their customers are actually doing more for the town than what you are.
Very simple. If you do not need the facilities of a caravan park, do not go there.
Seems to be a few people who seem to think they are entitled to free camping. If anyone use a bin or a dump point, someone has to pay for that facility.
When we stay in a CP we unhitch, shop at the supermarket, top up with gas & deisel, go out for dinner at a club or pub etc.
Our caravan is secure back in the CP which is far better than not unhitching in a non-secure free camp.
What are you trying to say? If you pay to stay in a CP you can't afford to spend any other money in that town?
Recently while staying in Cobar CP we went to the bowling club for dinner (two free drink vouchers from the CP), the club was packed with people staying at the CP. We ran into them all in the supermarket the next morning as well.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Saturday 12th of January 2019 03:42:14 PM
Hewy freecamping and caravan parks are both good we use both ,but I think caravan parks that are set up without all the silly frills that nomads dont need would have a huge market and they would be more economic ,they would be cheaper to build for the owners and fill the gap that nomads need,it wont happen of course....
On a recent trip from Adelaide north and west, we were able to find a good mix of caravan parks, national parks, low cost camping and free camping.
It hurt the hip pocket when we decided to have a bit of luxury at Cable beach and paid $48 for a non powered postage stamp site. Lesson learned and we moved out of town.
We found some great low cost parks (eg Ceduna Foreshore for $32 and fantastic facilities) and just stayed away from Big 4 and the like.
Average cost of parks was around the $40 mark, but overall average for the trip was around $22 per night.
I do feel for caravan parks in some of the bigger places. They have to cater for all and try to turn a profit.
If you want a caravan park that doesn't have all the Bells & Whistles try Kui van parks, They are a growing group of van parks that seem to realise there is money in grey nomads.
Alan
Is this the document?
Found with extensive google searching.
Here is another one.
All publicly available on internet.
Yep, that's the one Peter, nothing more than hysterical self serving propaganda and misinformation from the Caravan Industry Assoc of Australia.
Talk about fake news and biased alternative facts, guess the association members loved it.
Unsure why the original link was deleted when the report is freely available (was it meant to be confidential?)
Bit of a storm in a tea cup really, wait until super markets etc open their car parks to overnight stays as many do in the US, I can hear the screams from van park owners already.
By The New York Times
"As night falls, the motels and R.V. parks along Americas highways begin to fill up with travelers needing a place for the night.
But to untold thousands of motorists each year some with a sense of adventure, others looking to save a buck, still more with no other place to go Walmart is often a willing host for overnight guests.
Its not pretty: no pine trees, no bubbling brook, no ocean beach, Chuck Woodbury, the editor of RVTravel.com, said in a tutorial video intended for casual travelers. The idea of staying at Walmart is to park for the night, to get some sleep and then move on.
Walmarts practice of letting people populate many of its parking lots has made the retail giants stores a reliable, if somewhat improvised, destination and a place where an informal culture emerges before and after dark."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/us/walmart-parking-rv.html
I didn't see the thread ,what are we all talking about.
Have a read through the thread, the link was re posted by Peter D four posts down.
-- Edited by Santa on Sunday 13th of January 2019 10:22:59 AM
-- Edited by Santa on Sunday 13th of January 2019 12:41:03 PM
There is another interesting link - A guide for local government in developing camping options - This is a guide for local councils to provide campsites and get around caravan parks objections to the sites.
Don't know about fake news but this is certainly now old news.
A recent court ruling in Rockhampton regarding free camping at Kershaw gardens ordered that the site be closed because it was non compliant with urban regulations. Any free camping area within an urban area will now be required to meet the same compliancing regulations as caravan parks.
This topic was beaten to death in another thread just recently.
After reading the document my interpretation is according to the Caravan Parks Association its ANY camping that's not done in a caravan park. This includes National Parks, State Forests, Private Property, Free Camps, Rest Areas and or anything that's not a caravan park.
A good point Iza.
I would like to hear from long term travellers...those out and about in the Playground for 9 months or more...who frequent, support and stay only at CP's. Doing the sums, 270 nights x average $40pn aquates to $10,800 for 9 months accommodation alone, then double that for local shopping and eating out then additional for fuel. (Going by the expense accounts of some posting here). Good luck to you if you have that cash to splash...I would say most long term travellers don't. I don't. But I don't look at free camping as a right...it is a privilege and if it is provided I use the facilities whenever I can and respect that privilege of facilities.
My spending goes directly to the businesses that support my needs. Furthermore, as a free camper, I believe that I support towns in a greater capacity by staying longer in the area than most CP stayers. Yes, I do stay at CP's but only for security and safety in places that warrant it, and I don't care how much I spend at these CP's for that security.
The argument for or against CP's is ridiculous...as is the argument of which red wines are the best!
You choose what best serves your lifestyle and budget.
Just putting it out there.
Nothing to do with your camping preferences,how much it costs, your opinion about local councils or the caravan association or what you think should happen......all camping facilities in an Urban area must now meet the same compliancing regulations....that's the reality.
We had 5 pages of debate in another thread on this topic which I tried to copy but was unable to do so. That thread was closed by admin.
Gday...
Here ya go - it has been posted a couple of times on posts regarding Kershaw Gardens ... get a cuppa and sit down and digest it slowly
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2018/QPEC18-052.pdf
Cheers - John