On our Scenic Cruise, Amsterdam to Budapest a couple of years ago, at a number of stops we saw a number of motorhomes in some instances 20 or more parked on Tar adjacent to the wharf, similar but not so frequent in France recently, some with a dump point and water with no toilets and big bin rubbish containers. On both trips these locations were close to shops in built up areas.
I understand in Spain there is no difference between leaving your vehicle on the street overnight or overnighting in your motorhome providing the awning is not out, the windows are not out ( sliding windows OK) ditto no chairs and a generator is not in use.
I think some Oz RV'ers in the main are just coming to terms with onboard toilets, a friend who has been caravanning for 50 odd years with a large tandem van for around 5 years, used their on board loo for a No2 for the first time last year. On a regular basis you read of members on forums commenting re they do not use their toilet for that use. From what I have seen in Europe (which is not a lot) to me if you do not use an onboard toilet and do not have a grey water tank, you will have challenges.
Over the years I have come across a number of self contained motorhomes overnighting in Australian cities and would like to see similar legislation to Spain in Australia re Parking/Camping for fully self contained vehicles that meet the local parking regulations.
(Looks like my copy from word did not go as planned with the background)
Peter
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Monday 24th of December 2018 03:18:53 PM
Mamil said
03:30 PM Dec 24, 2018
There are some enlightened towns already, Geraldton in WA being one of them. They have a very nice facility for 24hr stay of self contained motorhomes and caravans with dump station and water, right on the sea front next to the town and shops.
And people comment about having no room on a caravan park site!
I understand it is convenient, but that really is madness to be that close together, and I cannot see anything enjoyable about spending my time in a camp site like that.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 25th of December 2018 07:19:05 AM
Aus-Kiwi said
11:26 PM Dec 24, 2018
We have full black tank toilet . Theres plenty of dump points around Australia. They are listed in Wikicamps, Camps 9 if you google dump point in your area ? Especially if town is a caravan friendly town ? Look out for the blue arrow directing you to dump point . In most cases its at or near local council or recreation ground . Sign up as CMCA member . They will have a list of dump points . The membership goes towards building dump points . Having grey and black tanks is a must to stay in some locations . We dont have issues free camping if we ever want too . We dont and wont stay in close proximity as in above pic !
Desert Dweller said
05:49 AM Dec 25, 2018
That Geraldton overnight area seems like a good idea.
We've lived adjacent to Port Phillip Bay for over 40 years. Here's a shot of Shnapper Point just a short walk away from us.
On our daily early morning walk we find a plethora of stealth campers parked overnight in our local yacht club/boat ramp car parking area.
Our shire could take a leaf out of Geraldton's book & herd them all into a designated area.
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:41 AM Dec 25, 2018
TheHeaths wrote:
I understand it is convenient, but that really is madness to be that close together, and I cannot see anything enjoyable about spending my time in a camp site like that.
Maybe you miss the point?
The objective is spend time in the area, not the "camp site" and when you are asleep, you can't tell how close others are.
Well done those people.
Cheers,
Peter
rockylizard said
09:41 AM Dec 25, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
I understand it is convenient, but that really is madness to be that close together, and I cannot see anything enjoyable about spending my time in a camp site like that.
Maybe you miss the point?
The objective is spend time in the area, not the "camp site" and when you are asleep, you can't tell how close others are.
Well done those people.
Cheers,
Peter
Gday...
Thank heaven our species are so diverse.
The only positive point of being cramped into a carpark like that is it doesn't cost the traveller any money.
I can barely tolerate being cramped into a caravan park. It is only tolerable due to the luxuries of flushing loos, hot endless showers and 240v power to save/charge my batteries. Sure it costs me a few bob but there are usually gardens, trees, grass and some semblance of nature. Thankfully 99% of van parks have much more room than that carpark.
To be crushed so tightly into a car park and have people literally in my pocket, with all their inherent noises and smells, is too high a cost.
Certainly, when one is asleep one doesn't know how close the others are. However, one surely just venture from within one's cocoon and literally rub shoulders with others also exiting their cocoon at such close quarters. One assumes that two vans opening their doors at the same time don't clash.
I fully understand that such places to sleep are well liked by many travellers and to be quite frank, they can have it to their heart's content.
OH - there is one other positive about people being happily cramped into a city car park ... they won't be at my camp spot in the bush.
Cheers - stay well, travel safely, put your ear plugs in and sleep tight - John
TheHeaths said
10:16 AM Dec 25, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
I understand it is convenient, but that really is madness to be that close together, and I cannot see anything enjoyable about spending my time in a camp site like that.
...
The objective is spend time in the area, not the "camp site" and when you are asleep, you can't tell how close others are.
...
Cheers,
Peter
Sorry Peter, but I suspect you would be intimately aware of those who were that close, and I certainly didn't miss the point of people using this sort of site. It certainly isn't to enjoy the ambience of the town or surrounding area, or to meet the nicer people of a free camp!
Anyway, to each their own.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 25th of December 2018 11:19:22 AM
Bryan said
10:35 AM Dec 25, 2018
TheHeaths wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
I understand it is convenient, but that really is madness to be that close together, and I cannot see anything enjoyable about spending my time in a camp site like that.
...
The objective is spend time in the area, not the "camp site" and when you are asleep, you can't tell how close others are.
...
Cheers,
Peter
Sorry Peter, but I suspect you would be intimately aware of those who were that close, and I certainly didn't miss the point of people using this sport of site. It certainly isn't to enjoy the ambience of the town or surrounding area, or to meet the nicer people of a free camp!
Anyway, to each their own.
Like everything else its not a one size fits all. Some will appreciate and others not. In my mind it is a step forward especially these days where more and more rest areas come free camp spots are being closed off. It gives travellers a place to stop and rest, to enjoy the nearby sea and beach and for those who are very tired the opportunity to rest. Most of all and because of the proximity of other travellers it offers safety without the high costs of Caravan Parks for those who are a bit apprehensive of being alone. Although I would feel too cramped to spend the night there, I applaud the efforts of the Geraldton Town Council and who knows in an emergency, I may even sleep over.
I wish other town councils would give this some consideration.
fwdoz said
10:56 AM Dec 25, 2018
To me, the important thing here is that the Council is at least offering something for travellers where they can stop in a safe area close to facilities. Not my idea of a spot to stay as I dont like being in someone else's pocket, especially if they engage in nocturnal activities.
What it does offer is choice, something that is not available in every area. Kudos to the Council for their decision to make an area available.
Tony Bev said
11:21 AM Dec 25, 2018
Usual disclaimer I have never lived/worked/holiday in Geraldton
I was talking to a local Council Ranger, while I was there
I did ask the question, why were the bays very close together
A very simple answer, the caravan park owners do not like free camps, and complain to the council, (never asked him how often), and are probably happy to see us packed in like sardines The idea was to, (once again reading between the lines, of what the Council Ranger said), allow the free campers to see the town, rather than watch them go straight through
Also, the local boating community fills up the rest of the carpark, on good boating days They also complain to the council, if caravans are in their, (it is well signed painted on the ground), boats only area The narrow free camping parking bays also, do not allow the caravan people to spread out, with awnings etc
I suppose that this is the easist way to accomodate each faction, boaties/free campers/caravan parks
I can assure you that each time I have stayed there, it is full by about 2pm I also recall that there is a sign about noise, and travellers seem to respect the place, as there is no rubbish laying around
There is a much better free camp, (once again for self contained only), at the Northampton Golf Course about 50 odd kilometres to the north Nothing there except a bit of shade from the trees From memory Wednesday or Thursday nights, you can participate at their clubhouse
Northampton also has (in the town), a free dump point, and free drinking water, for the traveller This could have been another reason why, Geraldton opened up their free camping, (strictly and policed 24 hours), area
For all thoes who, (for whatever reason), would never stay in a sardine can type free camp It is a good place to park up, if you would like to stretch your legs, and walk around the foreshore
Also as others have said, and (from experience), I agree with It make no difference to me, where I sleep
Mamil said
12:14 PM Dec 25, 2018
Geez, you just can't please some people!
It's not a 'free' campsite to spend your holiday in, it's a bay for you to park up legally for the night right in the centre of the town and use the facilities while on your way to somewhere else!
You have to appreciate the geography here. Geraldton is about half way between Perth and the popular destinations of Shark bay and Ningaloo Reef. A lot of people are just looking for somewhere to break the journey, get fuel and provisions, and an evening meal.
The choice is they park overnight illegally on the town streets, book into a caravan park, use a rest area on the highway, or go bush. Geraldton have taken the initiative to welcome the RVer and give them a spot to rest for the night legally. What's not to like?
If you don't want to be parked next to someone else for a night then by all means camp in the bush, but plenty of people appreciate the effort the Geraldton council have gone to, and personally I think they should be commended.
Izabarack said
12:22 PM Dec 25, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
The objective is spend time in the area, not the "camp site" and when you are asleep, you can't tell how close others are.
As you say, once the lights are out and you are asleep, what is there to be aware of? Have slept in 5 Star and have slept in a swag on the banks of a creek, as long as the mattress is adequate, the quality of my sleep is not different or affected by the surroundings.
If needing to park and sleep somewhere in a city, I have often used the local park facilities until 8 or so then parked in some backstreet to sleep. Always an early riser, I am up and gone before the city dwellers start moving much.
Parking, Camping, and Overnighting are three different things.
Iza
-- Edited by Izabarack on Tuesday 25th of December 2018 08:08:53 PM
LLD said
05:49 PM Dec 25, 2018
Mamil & Iza have the right outlook.
Having just stayed in Geraldton, the common complaint was that Geraldton is just a stopover for a sleep & fuel on the way to Kalbarri & beyond. Tourists just stay at the out of town paid parks and then keep going. The free spot in town is to get vanners to walk around and spend some money without having to unhitch or drive around in your "bus". Strangely enough security was an issue in the paid parks but appeared not to be an issue in the freebie.
PeterD said
12:20 PM Dec 26, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
I understand it is convenient, but that really is madness to be that close together, and I cannot see anything enjoyable about spending my time in a camp site like that.
Maybe you miss the point?
The objective is spend time in the area, not the "camp site" and when you are asleep, you can't tell how close others are.
It is quite obvious a lot of the respondents are missing the point. These places are not set up to be camping for people to settle into to enjoy the camping. They are provided for travelers to spend a night or two whilst traveling between pleasant camp sites. They are there to attract people to do business or shop in town. They are a convenient place to overnight if you wish to be in town to see a show or other tourist attraction. If you are wishing to do many things as you pass through you may have limited time to gather a happy hour group together anyway.
I see them as being great for occasional use, not provided so you can go from one to the next and live in them as a way of life.
TheHeaths said
03:55 PM Dec 26, 2018
As my closing comments, I just wanted to say this.
I haven't missed the point and understand some just look for a place to park while doing some business. Fine, but to be so close together that you would have trouble opening the door is silly in my opinion.
I know people will be out and about during the day P & M, but they eventually come back to sleep, and tv's on only 3 feet away (see the sat dishes deployed?), the curry coming back for another visit, and the odd snorer would combine to add to the ambience.
Mamil, if you are pleased, I am pleased! I was simply expressing my opinion that I consider it as an uninviting and unenjoyable way to spend however long I was staying in Geraldton. I appreciate Geraldton's geography, but would still like to have a modicum of privacy when I settled in the van for the evening. This just doesn't do it for me, and that is all that I was saying. If you enjoy being that close to others overnight, then that is fine. It is not the best set up location I have seen.
As I have said, and as JohnR said, fine if you are happy with it, but not my, or everybodies cup of tea.
On our Scenic Cruise, Amsterdam to Budapest a couple of years ago, at a number of stops we saw a number of motorhomes in some instances 20 or more parked on Tar adjacent to the wharf, similar but not so frequent in France recently, some with a dump point and water with no toilets and big bin rubbish containers. On both trips these locations were close to shops in built up areas.
I understand in Spain there is no difference between leaving your vehicle on the street overnight or overnighting in your motorhome providing the awning is not out, the windows are not out ( sliding windows OK) ditto no chairs and a generator is not in use.
See. Below.
http://n332.es/2015/05/28/motorhomes-parking-or-camping/
I think some Oz RV'ers in the main are just coming to terms with onboard toilets, a friend who has been caravanning for 50 odd years with a large tandem van for around 5 years, used their on board loo for a No2 for the first time last year. On a regular basis you read of members on forums commenting re they do not use their toilet for that use. From what I have seen in Europe (which is not a lot) to me if you do not use an onboard toilet and do not have a grey water tank, you will have challenges.
Over the years I have come across a number of self contained motorhomes overnighting in Australian cities and would like to see similar legislation to Spain in Australia re Parking/Camping for fully self contained vehicles that meet the local parking regulations.
(Looks like my copy from word did not go as planned with the background)
Peter
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Monday 24th of December 2018 03:18:53 PM
There are some enlightened towns already, Geraldton in WA being one of them. They have a very nice facility for 24hr stay of self contained motorhomes and caravans with dump station and water, right on the sea front next to the town and shops.
Before the free camp, I had no reason to stop in Geraldton, now I spend some money in that town
There is a little cafe closeby, probably the building marked the Sail Inn
It makes a good hamburger and chips
Mamil
Some pics of Geraldton RV overnight "free camp".
Very convenient but not every ones cup of tea.
JohnR
-- Edited by JohnR on Tuesday 25th of December 2018 06:17:00 PM
And people comment about having no room on a caravan park site!
I understand it is convenient, but that really is madness to be that close together, and I cannot see anything enjoyable about spending my time in a camp site like that.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 25th of December 2018 07:19:05 AM
That Geraldton overnight area seems like a good idea.
We've lived adjacent to Port Phillip Bay for over 40 years. Here's a shot of Shnapper Point just a short walk away from us.
On our daily early morning walk we find a plethora of stealth campers parked overnight in our local yacht club/boat ramp car parking area.
Our shire could take a leaf out of Geraldton's book & herd them all into a designated area.
Maybe you miss the point?
The objective is spend time in the area, not the "camp site" and when you are asleep, you can't tell how close others are.
Well done those people.
Cheers,
Peter
Gday...
Thank heaven our species are so diverse.
The only positive point of being cramped into a carpark like that is it doesn't cost the traveller any money.
I can barely tolerate being cramped into a caravan park. It is only tolerable due to the luxuries of flushing loos, hot endless showers and 240v power to save/charge my batteries. Sure it costs me a few bob but there are usually gardens, trees, grass and some semblance of nature. Thankfully 99% of van parks have much more room than that carpark.
To be crushed so tightly into a car park and have people literally in my pocket, with all their inherent noises and smells, is too high a cost.
Certainly, when one is asleep one doesn't know how close the others are. However, one surely just venture from within one's cocoon and literally rub shoulders with others also exiting their cocoon at such close quarters. One assumes that two vans opening their doors at the same time don't clash.
I fully understand that such places to sleep are well liked by many travellers and to be quite frank, they can have it to their heart's content.
OH - there is one other positive about people being happily cramped into a city car park ... they won't be at my camp spot in the bush.
Cheers - stay well, travel safely, put your ear plugs in and sleep tight
- John
Sorry Peter, but I suspect you would be intimately aware of those who were that close, and I certainly didn't miss the point of people using this sort of site. It certainly isn't to enjoy the ambience of the town or surrounding area, or to meet the nicer people of a free camp!
Anyway, to each their own.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 25th of December 2018 11:19:22 AM
Like everything else its not a one size fits all. Some will appreciate and others not. In my mind it is a step forward especially these days where more and more rest areas come free camp spots are being closed off. It gives travellers a place to stop and rest, to enjoy the nearby sea and beach and for those who are very tired the opportunity to rest. Most of all and because of the proximity of other travellers it offers safety without the high costs of Caravan Parks for those who are a bit apprehensive of being alone. Although I would feel too cramped to spend the night there, I applaud the efforts of the Geraldton Town Council and who knows in an emergency, I may even sleep over.
I wish other town councils would give this some consideration.
To me, the important thing here is that the Council is at least offering something for travellers where they can stop in a safe area close to facilities. Not my idea of a spot to stay as I dont like being in someone else's pocket, especially if they engage in nocturnal activities.
What it does offer is choice, something that is not available in every area. Kudos to the Council for their decision to make an area available.
Usual disclaimer I have never lived/worked/holiday in Geraldton
I was talking to a local Council Ranger, while I was there
I did ask the question, why were the bays very close together
A very simple answer, the caravan park owners do not like free camps, and complain to the council, (never asked him how often), and are probably happy to see us packed in like sardines
The idea was to, (once again reading between the lines, of what the Council Ranger said), allow the free campers to see the town, rather than watch them go straight through
Also, the local boating community fills up the rest of the carpark, on good boating days
They also complain to the council, if caravans are in their, (it is well signed painted on the ground), boats only area
The narrow free camping parking bays also, do not allow the caravan people to spread out, with awnings etc
I suppose that this is the easist way to accomodate each faction, boaties/free campers/caravan parks
I can assure you that each time I have stayed there, it is full by about 2pm
I also recall that there is a sign about noise, and travellers seem to respect the place, as there is no rubbish laying around
There is a much better free camp, (once again for self contained only), at the Northampton Golf Course about 50 odd kilometres to the north
Nothing there except a bit of shade from the trees
From memory Wednesday or Thursday nights, you can participate at their clubhouse
Northampton also has (in the town), a free dump point, and free drinking water, for the traveller
This could have been another reason why, Geraldton opened up their free camping, (strictly and policed 24 hours), area
For all thoes who, (for whatever reason), would never stay in a sardine can type free camp
It is a good place to park up, if you would like to stretch your legs, and walk around the foreshore
Also as others have said, and (from experience), I agree with
It make no difference to me, where I sleep
It's not a 'free' campsite to spend your holiday in, it's a bay for you to park up legally for the night right in the centre of the town and use the facilities while on your way to somewhere else!
You have to appreciate the geography here. Geraldton is about half way between Perth and the popular destinations of Shark bay and Ningaloo Reef. A lot of people are just looking for somewhere to break the journey, get fuel and provisions, and an evening meal.
The choice is they park overnight illegally on the town streets, book into a caravan park, use a rest area on the highway, or go bush. Geraldton have taken the initiative to welcome the RVer and give them a spot to rest for the night legally. What's not to like?
If you don't want to be parked next to someone else for a night then by all means camp in the bush, but plenty of people appreciate the effort the Geraldton council have gone to, and personally I think they should be commended.
As you say, once the lights are out and you are asleep, what is there to be aware of? Have slept in 5 Star and have slept in a swag on the banks of a creek, as long as the mattress is adequate, the quality of my sleep is not different or affected by the surroundings.
If needing to park and sleep somewhere in a city, I have often used the local park facilities until 8 or so then parked in some backstreet to sleep. Always an early riser, I am up and gone before the city dwellers start moving much.
Parking, Camping, and Overnighting are three different things.
Iza
-- Edited by Izabarack on Tuesday 25th of December 2018 08:08:53 PM
Having just stayed in Geraldton, the common complaint was that Geraldton is just a stopover for a sleep & fuel on the way to Kalbarri & beyond. Tourists just stay at the out of town paid parks and then keep going. The free spot in town is to get vanners to walk around and spend some money without having to unhitch or drive around in your "bus". Strangely enough security was an issue in the paid parks but appeared not to be an issue in the freebie.
It is quite obvious a lot of the respondents are missing the point. These places are not set up to be camping for people to settle into to enjoy the camping. They are provided for travelers to spend a night or two whilst traveling between pleasant camp sites. They are there to attract people to do business or shop in town. They are a convenient place to overnight if you wish to be in town to see a show or other tourist attraction. If you are wishing to do many things as you pass through you may have limited time to gather a happy hour group together anyway.
I see them as being great for occasional use, not provided so you can go from one to the next and live in them as a way of life.
I haven't missed the point and understand some just look for a place to park while doing some business. Fine, but to be so close together that you would have trouble opening the door is silly in my opinion.
I know people will be out and about during the day P & M, but they eventually come back to sleep, and tv's on only 3 feet away (see the sat dishes deployed?), the curry coming back for another visit, and the odd snorer would combine to add to the ambience.
Mamil, if you are pleased, I am pleased! I was simply expressing my opinion that I consider it as an uninviting and unenjoyable way to spend however long I was staying in Geraldton. I appreciate Geraldton's geography, but would still like to have a modicum of privacy when I settled in the van for the evening. This just doesn't do it for me, and that is all that I was saying. If you enjoy being that close to others overnight, then that is fine. It is not the best set up location I have seen.
As I have said, and as JohnR said, fine if you are happy with it, but not my, or everybodies cup of tea.
All for now, enjoy your travels.