Alternative to retirement home. Would you be interested in being part of a 'multiple occupancy' home base?
sealady said
09:51 AM Dec 13, 2018
Recently I have become aware of 'shared occupancy' situations and am wondering if others would be interested in exploring setting something up for people like us?
My idea is to set up a group of like minded people to buy a property together and we run it how we like.
At this stage I have many ideas but one is to have it as a home base for people who want the convenience of having a home base, living near like minded people, whatever shared facilities we want e.g swimming pool, spa, gymnasium, tennis courts, vegie garden, workshop, visitor accommodation, maintenance and perhaps even nursing and home care if/when we need it.
For me I would probably like a small 'house' with storage for my campervan, cars, boat and other toys and pets plus the security of knowing it will all be OK when I am away.
If/when I need care, rather than go into a nursing home or live alone and isolated in my house, I can have like minded neighbours and live how I want.
This has been done before. The ones I know of are:
1. A group of 'families' (I use the word family as some people were a mixture of adults and children, just adults, singles, all sorts)purchased a large acreage property and set aside a few acres for each of them. They each built a separate council approved home and live there full time. They have a set of by laws to cover shared facilities. This has been running for over 20 years. Have only had one nasty issue and the 'family' sold their share, including the house to another 'family' who were approved by the shareholders.
2. Set up in the 1970's, more as a caravan park for people wanting to live a specific lifestyle. There are shareholders and site owners. Officially people can only live there for 6 months each year (I think this is a council requirement) but a blind eye is turned. Some people have caravans with annexes, some have mobile or demountable homes. They only allow residents who align with their specific / alternative lifestyle.
These two examples have stood the test of time and come up with solutions for the multitude of potential problems.
They are run by the residents. Not by a company.
I welcome discussion.
Diana
-- Edited by sealady on Thursday 13th of December 2018 09:52:34 AM
-- Edited by sealady on Thursday 13th of December 2018 09:54:07 AM
Rip and Rosie said
11:06 AM Dec 13, 2018
Not for me.
My limited experience with body corporates makes me wary......great opportunity to be bullied if not done properly.
At least retirement villages have attracted the attention of governments and regulators, and this while perhaps not perfect, makes me feel more secure.
If and when I need to go into care, it will be because I need equipment or services that wont fit in a caravan, or a unit or a house.
No, not for me, but interested in the discussion.
mezza56 said
11:20 AM Dec 13, 2018
Gotta wonder why you have never been on this forum b4 then you crop up with this scheme
sealady said
11:20 AM Dec 13, 2018
Interesting comments Rosie.
I agree about Body Corporates.
My experiences with them going bad is when people with different aims and ethics are involved. Which is why I currently live in a separate house.
The examples of multiple occupancy I have looked into start with and insist on people with matching ideals.
Perhaps that is why they have worked so well for decades.
As well as what we have seen in the media about poor aged services they can be very expensive.
My mother's mid range facility needed a bond of $450,000 plus $6,000 a month. This does not cover everything.
When she first moved in it was brand new with good staff and facilities.
Four years later the staff numbers have dropped and the facilities are wearing out.
They keep building more and more self care units with rising prices and the people who need higher care have their services cut.
Hence my reason for opening this discussion.
Diana
sealady said
11:29 AM Dec 13, 2018
Hi Mezza56.
I am happy to answer any questions.
I am a 59 year old single woman.
Live at Lake Macquarie.
Work full time.
Travel in my AVAN part time, sail part time and have thought about something like this for years.
Recently have had the benefit of chatting with people who own property in the two examples I cite and thought it would be a great idea.
I have been a 'member' on here for a while reading posts to learn about life travelling full time and my personal experiences have convinced me that full time on the road or sailing is not for me.
My ideal is what I have now. A permanent home base and enjoy my 'toys'.
But I am getting older and none of the 'normal' options suit my ideals for retirement and thought this may be a good place to start the discussion.
Other than my own circle of friends, who have different plans for their lives.
Diana
Desert Dweller said
11:31 AM Dec 13, 2018
In a word NO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET2zQ6-HkWw
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Thursday 13th of December 2018 03:22:48 PM
LLD said
11:42 AM Dec 13, 2018
I know quite a few over 55s who have moved into something like this for a home-base and like it. In this park there is a yard for van or boat storage. I think there is also a mens shed. The particular unit advertised has no garage but many do.
Some advantages are that the unit is secure when absent, and your kids cannot move back home.
There are cheaper and dearer depending on location. I know a few in the park in this pic. Its just a gophers hop to a bowling club, supermarket, chemist, bank etc.
Definitely not plugging this particular place, just using it as a relatively affordable example of a home base out there now.
To me this is not quite a retirement home. My mother (94) is in a retirement home that cost a small fortune to get into and lots to stay there.
Great idea Diana in theory...but how to make it work...full power to you and your idea if you can make it "work"...
I had mates in the late 70's who were into back to earth festivals etc...some purchased a large Nursing Home on acreage at Mt Barker S.A....and took separate multiple rooms etc....theory was the kids were better raised in Community etc...they purchased their Groceries Wholesale and set up small Supermarket within the 'Home'...I was their Banker who oversaw their 'Enterprise'...going swimmingly and the intention being they could all grow old together...many were Highly Educated...Chemist, Academics, etc etc..the ONE thing that brought the whole Enterprise undone was their ages...Human Nature being what it invariably can be....they all started 'Argy Bargy' with each others wives etc......terrible situations developed and it all unravelled/ disbanded..
My point being: it was their ages and the stage of their lives that brought them undone.....we won't have those same problems now will we???.....or we will certainly be more discreet..Lol
I always harboured the thought that one of the small Victorian Towns which were going backwards, and houses were going for a 'song'/unwanted....a group of 'like minded' could have quietly gone in and started purchasing homes discreetly so as not to raise prices....set up dam for water....alternative power off the grid.....have a carrot growing specialist, tomato,potato, onions specialists....learn all about One thing and become a specialist....not hard that way..at our ages.. ...etc etc...barter systems....our own Representatives on local Council to represent 'Our' interests....not the greedy vested etc...
Only rules would be no former Politicians...no big heads/egomaniacs.....there for the right reasons....all could look after each other whilst you travel etc....and even later in life actually caring about each other's health issues.....Trust/Genuine Caring.....seems to be so hard to find today.....why?...greed/power/Its all about 'Me'....
It could work.....Baby Boomer Underachievers....rich in life's capacity if not rich financially....""We're in"!....which Town?.....hopefully one near Goldfields..I'll teach you all how to prospect for Gold...another little possible earner...keep you all fit anyways....
Good luck Diana....don't let the 'Sooth Sayers' bring you down..Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Thursday 13th of December 2018 11:49:04 AM
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Thursday 13th of December 2018 11:53:33 AM
sealady said
12:04 PM Dec 13, 2018
Thank you Goldfinger and LLD.
The existing over 55's places I have looked at give me the heebie geebies. Standard box type houses and certainly don't allow a kelpie. No room for my 2 cars, camper trailer, kayak, box trailer and other toys.
Plus even though I would like neighbours. Not quote that close. Plus everyone is over 55.
My thought is people of differing ages. Not just us Golden Oldies.
But we all have similar ideals and morals.
That argy bargy and unravelling has been what has stopped me from considering this in the past.
But my two examples seem to have sorted that out.
I like the idea of alternative off power, greenie type place.
No idea of location.. have not got that far yet.
Diana
Possum3 said
12:40 PM Dec 13, 2018
Back in the seventies, there were several properties each around the hundred acres down in the Oberon Shire set up by a group of women where the members bought land as Tenants in Common - there were some very down to Earth women amongst them - some built Adobe type dwellings, humpies and shacks, complete with a gasometer that made methane gas from pig manure. Solar power was unheard of commercially other than water heating. Some may remember an American soldier that went AWOL in Vietnam and was found living with five (from memory) "wives" complete with multiple children each, those women were part of the group. It ended up as a hippie commune and original owners sold or gifted their lots. It was a great area but really totally "öff grid" in more ways than one - I still see some of the originals occasionally, they all appear to be fit and well living with herbs and potions as their only medical system. And of course they are all recipients of age pension now, so life is a little easier for them.
Mike Harding said
01:03 PM Dec 13, 2018
Oh Diana... I feel like I'm kicking a kitten.... :(
It is, of course, a wonderful concept and if only the vagaries of human nature could be removed it would be ideal.
Whilst I'm sure the examples you offer, and probably a few others, have worked satisfactorily I suspect there are many such ventures which have ended in acrimony, bitterness and probably in the courts.
Fifty percent of married couples (including me) cannot manage to stay in a working relationship with a single partner so I have serious doubts half a dozen families/couples would work.
My experience of communal living is that it only has a chance of working if there is a clear and defined source of authority and that authority, in the final analysis, has total and unchallengeable power - that's why armies work.
So, sorry, but no I think it's a loser and I suggest you investigate other avenues.
palaceboy said
01:11 PM Dec 13, 2018
Be great if it could work, but for most it cant. Human nature gets in the way, always someone dominates, always someone ends up down the bottom end of the pecking order.
There are loads of options in theory for this, from on call nurses shared amongst a group of 6 individuals, through to cooks, drivers, the whole kit and kaboodle. Quite simply the more people the more room for conflict.
Shame innit!
Good luck finding people you can fully trust implicitly with your whole lifestyle for the next 30 years or so. Even couples fail at the rate of circa 40 to 50 pct.
Got to admit personally I think sharing "things/lifestyle/costs" in later life is far more difficult than in ones earlier years. I took a look at a couple of over 55 places and the proximity to neighbours/shared facilites/contained world, totally freaked me out. Was surprised at my own intense flight and run reaction actually.
Santa said
02:56 PM Dec 13, 2018
Certainly not my cup of tea.
Whenarewethere said
03:49 PM Dec 13, 2018
I have lived on a smallish block of units for 3 decades. It is well run but it is tough due to the politics, but in the end most things work well but you have to keep on top of things. Have also been on the Committee for a very long time. Even though we have an administrator we quite often get our own quotes, better work & cheaper prices.
We also had a third world war with the admistrator over building insurance. We reduced our building insurance from over $7k to a bit over $4k. The administrator didn't like it as they were not getting their commission any more! Also make sure you have plenty in the sinking fund, most buildings don't have anywhere near enough. You will need, safety report, asbestos report, valuation report, fire safety report etc on a regular basic. Fire extinguishers etc checked every 6 months & certificate sent to council annually. I had to follow 6 monthly check-up as is had not been done for over a year.
If you can't change you own light globes you will need to get the electrician in everytime at great expense, same with smoke alarms batteries. Not to forget to change the actual smoke alarm every 8 years as they also have a use by date stamped on them. Leaking taps & blocked plumbing or leaking roof, a plumber everytime.
We do our own garden & these days with a hand push mower, works really well. Did use a gardener & cleaner, it was a constant battle as after a few months the quality of work dropped then we would replace them again. I could not live where I do without living in a unit so have to make sure things work well put the effort in. Luckily a new recent owner is good but that is not generally the case.
Desert Dweller said
05:08 AM Dec 14, 2018
A member of our family lived in retirement village.
Like others have stated it had a DOMINANT group & the remainder were treated as UNDERLINGS.
They were very unhappy & they paid an enormous financial penalty to get back out into normality.
They were treated like LEPPERS when they indicated that they wanted to leave.
2-Smiths said
08:52 AM Dec 14, 2018
Some interesting ideas in here.
Not completely sure the model would work, but the "through life stage" discussion is one worthy of having.
As an E.g. You might start with a "community" of aging (but not necessarily "aged") people, who put a certain portion of their income into a central (properly managed and accounted for) "pot". As they age, this "pot" is then used to provide for assisted in-home care, and group activities, allowing people to stay in their own home for longer, while still enjoying the company of others.
Later, via a "transition to care" arrangement, these people might progressively move into *something* else, whether it be a communal-style thing as mentioned by the OP, or into a retirement home (initially independent living, but with on-call care and in-home assistance, and later into full-time care).
*shrugs*
The biggest issues (as alluded to by others) are:
1) Finances. How do you set something up so that people pay a small proportion of their incomes, say from later working life, so that it can be invested on behalf of the group, and then returned in the form of accommodation "bonds" or similar?
2) Human nature: There are always people who want to impose their will on others. There will always be people who form "cliques" and ostracise others. What starts out with the best of intentions, can quickly break down, as in one of the examples cited above.
3) Regulatory: How the venture is "framed" will impact on how it is regulated. There will always be some do-gooder Department or other wantin to stick an oar in, and add red tape (and hence cost) to pretty much ANY venture, so that also needs to be considered.
4) Lead time: The time to be setting something like this up is well before it's needed. Get the finances sorted and invested TODAY, so that with contributions and returns, it is available for use when people are aging (rather than having people needing to sell up/liquidate in order to afford large up-front sums, or pay "break costs" later. Trouble is, how many "younger" people have the foresight - or even the ability - to plan for and finance something that far out on the horizon...?
Still, some kind of community along the lines of what Goldfinger suggested sounds interesting. Not sure about having single "specialists" in certain fields (sounds like several single points of failure to me), and there would still have to be provision to pay for younger, more able "help" for certain things as the general cohort ages, but still...
Definitely an interesting discussion.
Whenarewethere said
10:04 AM Dec 14, 2018
Worth reading this from ABC before thinking about a retirement home of any kind. Frightening stuff!
We had a close look at the 'over xx' village market earlier this year and decided that it was not for us.
The ABC link in this post refers mainly to Federal Legislation.
In Queensland there is a set of strong legislation that covers these villages. I have a copy of it somewhere & at the time studied it very closely. The villages that we visited provided copies of their contracts or the then required Public Information Documents, that complied with the legislation.
Despite this, there is absolutely no way that WE would be happy with this option, though we have several friends who are very happy in their villages.
Points that we didn't like included ..
On exit sale, the Operator was entitled to 9% of the Sale price for the first 4 years of occupancy. (ie 36%)
As well they were entitled to 50% of any capital gain but no exposure to capital loss.
They were to be the sole Sale Agent.
The property was to be returned to 'as new' condition ready for sale with any non-wear & tare work at sellers cost.
Monthly fees to continue until sale (But limited to perhaps 3 mths . but not sure of that time frame).
The unit that we were interested in was on the market at circa $700,000 with monthly fees of $700, which didn't include power of communications.
And on & on it goes.
Oh yes .. If you were assessed at not being self-sufficient, even with the aid of in-home care then you were required to move out.
A great investment for the 'Operator' especially with the over 60's Village.
As to the OP's proposal that seems to seek to be outside the ambit of the legislation, I would be very wary of any arrangement that relied on goodwill/nature of ageing occupants on such a vital part of my life. A very strong legal (and therefore costly) framework would be required before I would even consider it. Then there would be the previously mentioned likely future intervention by Government Instrumentalities.
Sorry to be so negative. But that's how we feel.
Whenarewethere said
10:46 AM Dec 14, 2018
Sorry a little of topic:
At the latter end of retirement village life, or otherwise.
If you are bed bound one of the best things you can get is an alternating pneumatic mattress to prevent bed sores. They have rows of air tubes and every third row moves in a wave upwards to move the blood to maintain circulation. They more very gently so you do not really notice any movement.
My Mum was in bead for a year and did not have a single bed sore. Stopping bed sores in the first place is one of the best thing one can do. Also a simple sheet of plastic cloth (similar to boat sail cloth) to turn patient works a treat.
Lily2018 said
11:03 AM Dec 14, 2018
Great idea but can't see it working, at least for me. When you get too old/ill to look after yourself, you will have to move somewhere with help unless you have someone devoted who will care for you. I did this for my mother but don't expect anyone will do it for me.
-- Edited by Lily2018 on Friday 14th of December 2018 11:18:20 AM
Whenarewethere said
11:14 AM Dec 14, 2018
Cupie wrote:
Oh yes .. If you were assessed at not being self-sufficient, even with the aid of in-home care then you were required to move out.
You may as well stay in your own home and get the government in house help. It's not a lot but they shower you and do other personal care. The government is trying to keep people in their own house as it is a lot cheaper than in a hospital.
With all the money saved not moving into a money bleeding village, hire a carer to take you to the doctor or shopping. This is what our 95 year old neighbour has been doing for years, & she is not in good shape by any stretch of the imagination. She wants to maintain her independence!
By the time our neighbour cannot manage she will be completely bed bound. So it will be a high care unit and the government pays for this. This happened to my Father due to Parkinson's.
Mike Harding said
11:53 AM Dec 14, 2018
Whenarewethere wrote:If you are bed bound one of the best things you can get is an alternating pneumatic mattress to prevent bed sores. They have rows of air tubes and every third row moves in a wave upwards to move the blood to maintain circulation. They more very gently so you do not really notice any movement
I have to say: I designed the control electronics and software for the original patent unit and subsequent production version sometime around 1986 in the UK - we called them "ripple beds" at that time. The company later also produced a similar principle cushion for wheelchair users. They are a truly wonderful device for people who are prone for long periods. I used an Intel 8048 microcontroller and wrote the code in assembler.
sealady said
01:08 PM Dec 14, 2018
Some more personal information about my family.... and why I am seeking alternatives.
Mum and dad divorced decades ago and have been living a single life in separate towns.
Mum: with dementia, there comes a point that a specialist, secure facility is essential. Yes those ripple beds are awesome.
Dad: Lives in a regional town, (off grid), away from me, has his marbles, but is not capable of caring for himself.
I have arranged for a 'carer' to call in to see him twice a day, 7 days a week. This works brilliantly.
His carer prefers to be addressed as his "Butler".
The Butler was on the dole and now he is a Butler he gets the carer's benefit which is more money.
Plus using his own words "Gives his life meaning"
I move in when the Butler has holidays or just needs a break. Or I should say take my campervan on a trip and camp on his property.
I have found having a full time carer like this is awesome.
The other carer services are great for other things like transport to out of town, medical appointments.
But they won't carry in anything heavy like water or the diesel for the generator let alone fill said generator.
They will do light cleaning. This does not include moving any furniture.
For my dad the ideal situation is his current one plus a doting daughter who fills in the gaps.
Dad and the Butler get on very well. This butler is a country bloke who brings in firewood and keeps the fire going plus all the other things that are needed for this type of living.
One couple I met on the road had been travelling for a while, no home base.
She became ill and needed regular hospital treatment for over a year.
Not having a home base made this extremely difficult for them.
The day I met them was their first night in a free camping spot in an outback town.
They were lovely people.
I am single, no children, no nieces nor nephews. So no back up that many others have.
There must be a lot of people like me out there. I have met quite a few single women travelling around.
I presume there are single blokes as well.
Goldfinger said
02:21 PM Dec 14, 2018
Diana + Mike =problemo solvered...however you can no longer contribute to the Solo Threads.....Lmao...Good luck.....I think Jules and Billleeee teamed up on here..=great relationship.....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Friday 14th of December 2018 02:31:05 PM
Mike Harding said
02:47 PM Dec 14, 2018
Goldfinger wrote:
Diana + Mike =problemo solvered...however you can no longer contribute to the Solo Threads.....Lmao..
Goldfinger: I thank you for the thought and I have no doubt Diana is a gorgeous and highly companionable lady... but I doubt she, or any other woman, would put up with me for more than one week... at most! :)
Blues Man said
03:11 PM Dec 14, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
Goldfinger wrote:
Diana + Mike =problemo solvered...however you can no longer contribute to the Solo Threads.....Lmao..
Goldfinger: I thank you for the thought and I have no doubt Diana is a gorgeous and highly companionable lady... but I doubt she, or any other woman, would put up with me for more than one week... at most! :)
Hey Mike ,are you saying you're hard to get on with .
Mike Harding said
03:46 PM Dec 14, 2018
Blues Man wrote:Hey Mike ,are you saying you're hard to get on with
I am an "individual" BM :)
sealady said
02:18 PM Dec 15, 2018
We are all individuals.
Just like everyone else. lol
All this being said, I will continue with my current plan and who knows what can happen in the future.
For the record I am an heiress, underwear model and my dad owns a brewery!!!!
Diana :)
Goldfinger said
03:11 PM Dec 15, 2018
Diana, may I apply for the position?.....any position will do.....Lmao....I'm an itinerant Gold Prospector... down on my luck....and I look like Gabby Hayes's Burro's arrse...however Trustworthy with a riveting Poisonality.........Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Saturday 15th of December 2018 03:13:59 PM
Mike Harding said
03:31 PM Dec 15, 2018
sealady wrote:For the record I am an heiress, underwear model and my dad owns a brewery!!!!
Diana: Upon reflection I do think Goldfinger's suggestion may have merit.... :)
Recently I have become aware of 'shared occupancy' situations and am wondering if others would be interested in exploring setting something up for people like us?
My idea is to set up a group of like minded people to buy a property together and we run it how we like.
At this stage I have many ideas but one is to have it as a home base for people who want the convenience of having a home base, living near like minded people, whatever shared facilities we want e.g swimming pool, spa, gymnasium, tennis courts, vegie garden, workshop, visitor accommodation, maintenance and perhaps even nursing and home care if/when we need it.
For me I would probably like a small 'house' with storage for my campervan, cars, boat and other toys and pets plus the security of knowing it will all be OK when I am away.
If/when I need care, rather than go into a nursing home or live alone and isolated in my house, I can have like minded neighbours and live how I want.
This has been done before. The ones I know of are:
1. A group of 'families' (I use the word family as some people were a mixture of adults and children, just adults, singles, all sorts)purchased a large acreage property and set aside a few acres for each of them. They each built a separate council approved home and live there full time. They have a set of by laws to cover shared facilities. This has been running for over 20 years. Have only had one nasty issue and the 'family' sold their share, including the house to another 'family' who were approved by the shareholders.
2. Set up in the 1970's, more as a caravan park for people wanting to live a specific lifestyle. There are shareholders and site owners. Officially people can only live there for 6 months each year (I think this is a council requirement) but a blind eye is turned. Some people have caravans with annexes, some have mobile or demountable homes. They only allow residents who align with their specific / alternative lifestyle.
These two examples have stood the test of time and come up with solutions for the multitude of potential problems.
They are run by the residents. Not by a company.
I welcome discussion.
Diana
-- Edited by sealady on Thursday 13th of December 2018 09:52:34 AM
-- Edited by sealady on Thursday 13th of December 2018 09:54:07 AM
My limited experience with body corporates makes me wary......great opportunity to be bullied if not done properly.
At least retirement villages have attracted the attention of governments and regulators, and this while perhaps not perfect, makes me feel more secure.
If and when I need to go into care, it will be because I need equipment or services that wont fit in a caravan, or a unit or a house.
No, not for me, but interested in the discussion.
Gotta wonder why you have never been on this forum b4 then you crop up with this scheme
I agree about Body Corporates.
My experiences with them going bad is when people with different aims and ethics are involved. Which is why I currently live in a separate house.
The examples of multiple occupancy I have looked into start with and insist on people with matching ideals.
Perhaps that is why they have worked so well for decades.
As well as what we have seen in the media about poor aged services they can be very expensive.
My mother's mid range facility needed a bond of $450,000 plus $6,000 a month. This does not cover everything.
When she first moved in it was brand new with good staff and facilities.
Four years later the staff numbers have dropped and the facilities are wearing out.
They keep building more and more self care units with rising prices and the people who need higher care have their services cut.
Hence my reason for opening this discussion.
Diana
I am happy to answer any questions.
I am a 59 year old single woman.
Live at Lake Macquarie.
Work full time.
Travel in my AVAN part time, sail part time and have thought about something like this for years.
Recently have had the benefit of chatting with people who own property in the two examples I cite and thought it would be a great idea.
I have been a 'member' on here for a while reading posts to learn about life travelling full time and my personal experiences have convinced me that full time on the road or sailing is not for me.
My ideal is what I have now. A permanent home base and enjoy my 'toys'.
But I am getting older and none of the 'normal' options suit my ideals for retirement and thought this may be a good place to start the discussion.
Other than my own circle of friends, who have different plans for their lives.
Diana
In a word NO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET2zQ6-HkWw
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Thursday 13th of December 2018 03:22:48 PM
I know quite a few over 55s who have moved into something like this for a home-base and like it. In this park there is a yard for van or boat storage. I think there is also a mens shed. The particular unit advertised has no garage but many do.
Some advantages are that the unit is secure when absent, and your kids cannot move back home.
There are cheaper and dearer depending on location. I know a few in the park in this pic. Its just a gophers hop to a bowling club, supermarket, chemist, bank etc.
Definitely not plugging this particular place, just using it as a relatively affordable example of a home base out there now.
To me this is not quite a retirement home. My mother (94) is in a retirement home that cost a small fortune to get into and lots to stay there.
Great idea Diana in theory...but how to make it work...full power to you and your idea if you can make it "work"...
I had mates in the late 70's who were into back to earth festivals etc...some purchased a large Nursing Home on acreage at Mt Barker S.A....and took separate multiple rooms etc....theory was the kids were better raised in Community etc...they purchased their Groceries Wholesale and set up small Supermarket within the 'Home'...I was their Banker who oversaw their 'Enterprise'...going swimmingly and the intention being they could all grow old together...many were Highly Educated...Chemist, Academics, etc etc..the ONE thing that brought the whole Enterprise undone was their ages...Human Nature being what it invariably can be....they all started 'Argy Bargy' with each others wives etc......terrible situations developed and it all unravelled/ disbanded..
My point being: it was their ages and the stage of their lives that brought them undone.....we won't have those same problems now will we???.....or we will certainly be more discreet..Lol
I always harboured the thought that one of the small Victorian Towns which were going backwards, and houses were going for a 'song'/unwanted....a group of 'like minded' could have quietly gone in and started purchasing homes discreetly so as not to raise prices....set up dam for water....alternative power off the grid.....have a carrot growing specialist, tomato,potato, onions specialists....learn all about One thing and become a specialist....not hard that way..at our ages.. ...etc etc...barter systems....our own Representatives on local Council to represent 'Our' interests....not the greedy vested etc...
Only rules would be no former Politicians...no big heads/egomaniacs.....there for the right reasons....all could look after each other whilst you travel etc....and even later in life actually caring about each other's health issues.....Trust/Genuine Caring.....seems to be so hard to find today.....why?...greed/power/Its all about 'Me'....
It could work.....Baby Boomer Underachievers....rich in life's capacity if not rich financially....""We're in"!....which Town?.....hopefully one near Goldfields..I'll teach you all how to prospect for Gold...another little possible earner...keep you all fit anyways....
Good luck Diana....don't let the 'Sooth Sayers' bring you down..Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Thursday 13th of December 2018 11:49:04 AM
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Thursday 13th of December 2018 11:53:33 AM
The existing over 55's places I have looked at give me the heebie geebies. Standard box type houses and certainly don't allow a kelpie. No room for my 2 cars, camper trailer, kayak, box trailer and other toys.
Plus even though I would like neighbours. Not quote that close. Plus everyone is over 55.
My thought is people of differing ages. Not just us Golden Oldies.
But we all have similar ideals and morals.
That argy bargy and unravelling has been what has stopped me from considering this in the past.
But my two examples seem to have sorted that out.
I like the idea of alternative off power, greenie type place.
No idea of location.. have not got that far yet.
Diana
Oh Diana... I feel like I'm kicking a kitten.... :(
It is, of course, a wonderful concept and if only the vagaries of human nature could be removed it would be ideal.
Whilst I'm sure the examples you offer, and probably a few others, have worked satisfactorily I suspect there are many such ventures which have ended in acrimony, bitterness and probably in the courts.
Fifty percent of married couples (including me) cannot manage to stay in a working relationship with a single partner so I have serious doubts half a dozen families/couples would work.
My experience of communal living is that it only has a chance of working if there is a clear and defined source of authority and that authority, in the final analysis, has total and unchallengeable power - that's why armies work.
So, sorry, but no I think it's a loser and I suggest you investigate other avenues.
There are loads of options in theory for this, from on call nurses shared amongst a group of 6 individuals, through to cooks, drivers, the whole kit and kaboodle. Quite simply the more people the more room for conflict.
Shame innit!
Good luck finding people you can fully trust implicitly with your whole lifestyle for the next 30 years or so. Even couples fail at the rate of circa 40 to 50 pct.
Got to admit personally I think sharing "things/lifestyle/costs" in later life is far more difficult than in ones earlier years. I took a look at a couple of over 55 places and the proximity to neighbours/shared facilites/contained world, totally freaked me out. Was surprised at my own intense flight and run reaction actually.
Certainly not my cup of tea.
I have lived on a smallish block of units for 3 decades. It is well run but it is tough due to the politics, but in the end most things work well but you have to keep on top of things. Have also been on the Committee for a very long time. Even though we have an administrator we quite often get our own quotes, better work & cheaper prices.
We also had a third world war with the admistrator over building insurance. We reduced our building insurance from over $7k to a bit over $4k. The administrator didn't like it as they were not getting their commission any more! Also make sure you have plenty in the sinking fund, most buildings don't have anywhere near enough. You will need, safety report, asbestos report, valuation report, fire safety report etc on a regular basic. Fire extinguishers etc checked every 6 months & certificate sent to council annually. I had to follow 6 monthly check-up as is had not been done for over a year.
If you can't change you own light globes you will need to get the electrician in everytime at great expense, same with smoke alarms batteries. Not to forget to change the actual smoke alarm every 8 years as they also have a use by date stamped on them. Leaking taps & blocked plumbing or leaking roof, a plumber everytime.
We do our own garden & these days with a hand push mower, works really well. Did use a gardener & cleaner, it was a constant battle as after a few months the quality of work dropped then we would replace them again. I could not live where I do without living in a unit so have to make sure things work well put the effort in. Luckily a new recent owner is good but that is not generally the case.
Like others have stated it had a DOMINANT group & the remainder were treated as UNDERLINGS.
They were very unhappy & they paid an enormous financial penalty to get back out into normality.
They were treated like LEPPERS when they indicated that they wanted to leave.
Not completely sure the model would work, but the "through life stage" discussion is one worthy of having.
As an E.g. You might start with a "community" of aging (but not necessarily "aged") people, who put a certain portion of their income into a central (properly managed and accounted for) "pot". As they age, this "pot" is then used to provide for assisted in-home care, and group activities, allowing people to stay in their own home for longer, while still enjoying the company of others.
Later, via a "transition to care" arrangement, these people might progressively move into *something* else, whether it be a communal-style thing as mentioned by the OP, or into a retirement home (initially independent living, but with on-call care and in-home assistance, and later into full-time care).
*shrugs*
The biggest issues (as alluded to by others) are:
1) Finances. How do you set something up so that people pay a small proportion of their incomes, say from later working life, so that it can be invested on behalf of the group, and then returned in the form of accommodation "bonds" or similar?
2) Human nature: There are always people who want to impose their will on others. There will always be people who form "cliques" and ostracise others. What starts out with the best of intentions, can quickly break down, as in one of the examples cited above.
3) Regulatory: How the venture is "framed" will impact on how it is regulated. There will always be some do-gooder Department or other wantin to stick an oar in, and add red tape (and hence cost) to pretty much ANY venture, so that also needs to be considered.
4) Lead time: The time to be setting something like this up is well before it's needed. Get the finances sorted and invested TODAY, so that with contributions and returns, it is available for use when people are aging (rather than having people needing to sell up/liquidate in order to afford large up-front sums, or pay "break costs" later. Trouble is, how many "younger" people have the foresight - or even the ability - to plan for and finance something that far out on the horizon...?
Still, some kind of community along the lines of what Goldfinger suggested sounds interesting. Not sure about having single "specialists" in certain fields (sounds like several single points of failure to me), and there would still have to be provision to pay for younger, more able "help" for certain things as the general cohort ages, but still...
Definitely an interesting discussion.
Worth reading this from ABC before thinking about a retirement home of any kind. Frightening stuff!
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-26/regulators-gone-missing-in-retirement-village-industry/8647990
We had a close look at the 'over xx' village market earlier this year and decided that it was not for us.
The ABC link in this post refers mainly to Federal Legislation.
In Queensland there is a set of strong legislation that covers these villages. I have a copy of it somewhere & at the time studied it very closely. The villages that we visited provided copies of their contracts or the then required Public Information Documents, that complied with the legislation.
Despite this, there is absolutely no way that WE would be happy with this option, though we have several friends who are very happy in their villages.
Points that we didn't like included ..
On exit sale, the Operator was entitled to 9% of the Sale price for the first 4 years of occupancy. (ie 36%)
As well they were entitled to 50% of any capital gain but no exposure to capital loss.
They were to be the sole Sale Agent.
The property was to be returned to 'as new' condition ready for sale with any non-wear & tare work at sellers cost.
Monthly fees to continue until sale (But limited to perhaps 3 mths . but not sure of that time frame).
The unit that we were interested in was on the market at circa $700,000 with monthly fees of $700, which didn't include power of communications.
And on & on it goes.
Oh yes .. If you were assessed at not being self-sufficient, even with the aid of in-home care then you were required to move out.
A great investment for the 'Operator' especially with the over 60's Village.
As to the OP's proposal that seems to seek to be outside the ambit of the legislation, I would be very wary of any arrangement that relied on goodwill/nature of ageing occupants on such a vital part of my life. A very strong legal (and therefore costly) framework would be required before I would even consider it. Then there would be the previously mentioned likely future intervention by Government Instrumentalities.
Sorry to be so negative. But that's how we feel.
Sorry a little of topic:
At the latter end of retirement village life, or otherwise.
If you are bed bound one of the best things you can get is an alternating pneumatic mattress to prevent bed sores. They have rows of air tubes and every third row moves in a wave upwards to move the blood to maintain circulation. They more very gently so you do not really notice any movement.
My Mum was in bead for a year and did not have a single bed sore. Stopping bed sores in the first place is one of the best thing one can do. Also a simple sheet of plastic cloth (similar to boat sail cloth) to turn patient works a treat.
Great idea but can't see it working, at least for me. When you get too old/ill to look after yourself, you will have to move somewhere with help unless you have someone devoted who will care for you. I did this for my mother but don't expect anyone will do it for me.
-- Edited by Lily2018 on Friday 14th of December 2018 11:18:20 AM
You may as well stay in your own home and get the government in house help. It's not a lot but they shower you and do other personal care. The government is trying to keep people in their own house as it is a lot cheaper than in a hospital.
With all the money saved not moving into a money bleeding village, hire a carer to take you to the doctor or shopping. This is what our 95 year old neighbour has been doing for years, & she is not in good shape by any stretch of the imagination. She wants to maintain her independence!
By the time our neighbour cannot manage she will be completely bed bound. So it will be a high care unit and the government pays for this. This happened to my Father due to Parkinson's.
I have to say: I designed the control electronics and software for the original patent unit and subsequent production version sometime around 1986 in the UK - we called them "ripple beds" at that time. The company later also produced a similar principle cushion for wheelchair users. They are a truly wonderful device for people who are prone for long periods. I used an Intel 8048 microcontroller and wrote the code in assembler.
Mum and dad divorced decades ago and have been living a single life in separate towns.
Mum: with dementia, there comes a point that a specialist, secure facility is essential. Yes those ripple beds are awesome.
Dad: Lives in a regional town, (off grid), away from me, has his marbles, but is not capable of caring for himself.
I have arranged for a 'carer' to call in to see him twice a day, 7 days a week. This works brilliantly.
His carer prefers to be addressed as his "Butler".
The Butler was on the dole and now he is a Butler he gets the carer's benefit which is more money.
Plus using his own words "Gives his life meaning"
I move in when the Butler has holidays or just needs a break. Or I should say take my campervan on a trip and camp on his property.
I have found having a full time carer like this is awesome.
The other carer services are great for other things like transport to out of town, medical appointments.
But they won't carry in anything heavy like water or the diesel for the generator let alone fill said generator.
They will do light cleaning. This does not include moving any furniture.
For my dad the ideal situation is his current one plus a doting daughter who fills in the gaps.
Dad and the Butler get on very well. This butler is a country bloke who brings in firewood and keeps the fire going plus all the other things that are needed for this type of living.
One couple I met on the road had been travelling for a while, no home base.
She became ill and needed regular hospital treatment for over a year.
Not having a home base made this extremely difficult for them.
The day I met them was their first night in a free camping spot in an outback town.
They were lovely people.
I am single, no children, no nieces nor nephews. So no back up that many others have.
There must be a lot of people like me out there. I have met quite a few single women travelling around.
I presume there are single blokes as well.
Diana + Mike =problemo solvered...however you can no longer contribute to the Solo Threads.....Lmao...Good luck.....I think Jules and Billleeee teamed up on here..=great relationship.....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Friday 14th of December 2018 02:31:05 PM
Goldfinger: I thank you for the thought and I have no doubt Diana is a gorgeous and highly companionable lady... but I doubt she, or any other woman, would put up with me for more than one week... at most! :)
Hey Mike ,are you saying you're hard to get on with .
I am an "individual" BM :)
Just like everyone else. lol
All this being said, I will continue with my current plan and who knows what can happen in the future.
For the record I am an heiress, underwear model and my dad owns a brewery!!!!
Diana :)
Diana, may I apply for the position?.....any position will do.....Lmao....I'm an itinerant Gold Prospector... down on my luck....and I look like Gabby Hayes's Burro's arrse...however Trustworthy with a riveting Poisonality.........Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Saturday 15th of December 2018 03:13:59 PM
Diana: Upon reflection I do think Goldfinger's suggestion may have merit.... :)