Just did some calcs on GVM and GCM etc. Towing at max with full fuel load and 2 passengers at 80kg each and carrying load in car is 92kg. add some children and no more weight in car. also a car weight about 2.3 towing 3.5? not a good idea. Then add a low powered petrol and/or diesel. Its about time car manufacturers stopped saying that a car can tow xyz and also show how much you can pack in the car for a normal family holiday. Ie 4- 5 people, full fuel load, any extras that add weight, ie tow bar and ball, 2nd battery, Bbar??? etc. But a good buy if you do not want to tow at capacity!!
yobarr said
05:21 PM Dec 12, 2018
HandyWalter wrote:
Just did some calcs on GVM and GCM etc. Towing at max with full fuel load and 2 passengers at 80kg each and carrying load in car is 92kg. add some children and no more weight in car. also a car weight about 2.3 towing 3.5? not a good idea. Then add a low powered petrol and/or diesel. Its about time car manufacturers stopped saying that a car can tow xyz and also show how much you can pack in the car for a normal family holiday. Ie 4- 5 people, full fuel load, any extras that add weight, ie tow bar and ball, 2nd battery, Bbar??? etc. But a good buy if you do not want to tow at capacity!!
Hi Walter...as you suggest,there is no way that this CAR should be towing a 3500kg van.The GVM of the car is 2950kg,so when a 3500kg van is hooked up,we have a GTM of 3150kg behind a car with a max GVM of 2950kg,for a total GCM of 6100kg.So far I havent been able to find the actual GCM,but I would suggest that it is likely 6000kg,as are many of the lightweight contenders in this part of the market?With the weight on the vans wheels (3150kg) being 10% more than the weight on cars wheels,(2850kg) there is absolutely no way that these lightweights can safely tow 3500kg...NO WAY, unless the trailer is a DOG trailer.Your suggestion that this car could be a GOOD BUY could perhaps be better expressed as GOODBYE? Cheers
BAZZA44 said
05:24 PM Dec 12, 2018
2.2 litre to tow 3500kg. They have got rocks in their heads
Barry
yobarr said
06:01 PM Dec 12, 2018
BAZZA44 wrote:
2.2 litre to tow 3500kg. They have got rocks in their heads
Barry
HI Barry...Im with you on that point,but I fear that we both will be out voted by the majority! This little flying machine develops 133kw,which is more than the 2.8 litre Hilux,which is 130kw.The Ranger is 147kw,but both the Hilux and the Ranger seem to have lots of talk???? Cheers
BAZZA44 said
06:44 PM Dec 12, 2018
Yes yobarr, the experts have all the dyno figures and computer calculations to justify their vehicles ability. But, and it is a big But, on the road ability is where it counts. These small engines are working to capacity and will have a very short working life.
They are flat out pulling a 3500kg van over a speed bump let alone going up hills.
Their is still no substitute for cubic inches.
Nothing under 4 litres for me for towing. I have had v8's for the last 40 plus years and the engine in the cruiser is downsizing for me.
Regards
Barry
blaze said
07:18 PM Dec 12, 2018
isn't the much talked about amarak a 2.0 litre engine , landrover puma defender is 2.2 I think. the list goes on
cheers
blaze
yobarr said
07:33 PM Dec 12, 2018
BAZZA44 wrote:
Yes yobarr, the experts have all the dyno figures and computer calculations to justify their vehicles ability. But, and it is a big But, on the road ability is where it counts. These small engines are working to capacity and will have a very short working life.
They are flat out pulling a 3500kg van over a speed bump let alone going up hills.
Their is still no substitute for cubic inches.
Nothing under 4 litres for me for towing. I have had v8's for the last 40 plus years and the engine in the cruiser is downsizing for me.
Regards
Barry
Hi Barry...I agree 100% with your sentiments,which is why I have a 200kw Turbo Diesel 4.5 litre V8. The little sewing-machines engines in many of the modern lightweights are,as you suggest,working near their capacity,with associated shorter life span than a big old V8 that has heaps in reserve as it works away at a level well below its potential.Cheers
Desert Dweller said
05:23 AM Dec 13, 2018
Brother-in-law was towing a lightweight Geist caravan around with a Stavic diesel (bought new) for a few years.
One day a vehicle pulled beside him advising him to pull over.
The Stavic had ''broken in half'' with a 50mm gap on the drivers side.
It was a write off.
A year later he ended up towing just an A-frame, the Geist caravan was left behind in a roadside culvert.
Six months later the gearbox blew up on his replacement vehicle for the Ssangyong, a late model Land Rover Discovery.
He now owns a Toyota Land Cruiser & a new Avida caravan.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Thursday 13th of December 2018 11:32:37 AM
yobarr said
05:35 AM Dec 13, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
Brother-in-law was towing a lightweight Geist caravan around with a Stavic diesel (bought new) for a few years.
One day a vehicle pulled beside him advising him to pull over.
The Stavic had ''broken in half'' with a 50mm gap on the drivers side.
It was a right off.
A year later he ended up towing just an A-frame, the Geist caravan was left behind in a roadside culvert.
Six months later the gearbox blew up on his replacement vehicle for the Ssangyong, a late model Land Rover Discovery.
He now owns a Toyota Land Cruiser & a new Avida caravan.
Good to see that EVENTUALLY he got the right car! Do it once,do it well.Cheers
Stretch60 said
11:34 AM Dec 13, 2018
blaze wrote:
isn't the much talked about amarak a 2.0 litre engine , landrover puma defender is 2.2 I think. the list goes on cheers blaze
Blaze, 2l twin turbo Amarok is factory rated at 3000kg. V6 Amarok 165kw @550nm torque 3500kg. Took my van towed by the Amarok to weighbridge this week and no issues towing @ 2880kg (first tow for the Rok). Although van is rated to 3500kg, I will never go there in interests of safety and fuel economy. I too believe the small capacity engines will be over stressed pulling large loads. I also found the 8 speed auto in the Amarok was spot on for gear selection in general towing. Only used manual mode on some long downhill runs to assist with braking.
PeterD said
07:37 PM Dec 14, 2018
BAZZA44 wrote:
2.2 litre to tow 3500kg. They have got rocks in their heads
Barry
The new Navara D22s also do it on 2.2 litres.
yobarr said
07:56 PM Dec 14, 2018
PeterD wrote:
BAZZA44 wrote:
2.2 litre to tow 3500kg. They have got rocks in their heads
Barry
The new Navara D22s also do it on 2.2 litres.
Anybody who tries to tow a 3500kg van with a Navara WOULD need to have rocks in their head! Talk about the tail wagging the Dog......which reminds me.The ONLY way the lightweight twin-cabs have ANYchance of SAFELYtowing a 3500kg trailer is if that trailer is a DOGtrailer.Cheers.
Hi Walter...as you suggest,there is no way that this CAR should be towing a 3500kg van.The GVM of the car is 2950kg,so when a 3500kg van is hooked up,we have a GTM of 3150kg behind a car with a max GVM of 2950kg,for a total GCM of 6100kg.So far I havent been able to find the actual GCM,but I would suggest that it is likely 6000kg,as are many of the lightweight contenders in this part of the market?With the weight on the vans wheels (3150kg) being 10% more than the weight on cars wheels,(2850kg) there is absolutely no way that these lightweights can safely tow 3500kg...NO WAY, unless the trailer is a DOG trailer.Your suggestion that this car could be a GOOD BUY could perhaps be better expressed as GOODBYE? Cheers
Barry
HI Barry...Im with you on that point,but I fear that we both will be out voted by the majority! This little flying machine develops 133kw,which is more than the 2.8 litre Hilux,which is 130kw.The Ranger is 147kw,but both the Hilux and the Ranger seem to have lots of talk???? Cheers
They are flat out pulling a 3500kg van over a speed bump let alone going up hills.
Their is still no substitute for cubic inches.
Nothing under 4 litres for me for towing. I have had v8's for the last 40 plus years and the engine in the cruiser is downsizing for me.
Regards
Barry
cheers
blaze
Hi Barry...I agree 100% with your sentiments,which is why I have a 200kw Turbo Diesel 4.5 litre V8. The little sewing-machines engines in many of the modern lightweights are,as you suggest,working near their capacity,with associated shorter life span than a big old V8 that has heaps in reserve as it works away at a level well below its potential.Cheers
Brother-in-law was towing a lightweight Geist caravan around with a Stavic diesel (bought new) for a few years.
One day a vehicle pulled beside him advising him to pull over.
The Stavic had ''broken in half'' with a 50mm gap on the drivers side.
It was a write off.
A year later he ended up towing just an A-frame, the Geist caravan was left behind in a roadside culvert.
Six months later the gearbox blew up on his replacement vehicle for the Ssangyong, a late model Land Rover Discovery.
He now owns a Toyota Land Cruiser & a new Avida caravan.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Thursday 13th of December 2018 11:32:37 AM
Good to see that EVENTUALLY he got the right car! Do it once,do it well.Cheers
Blaze, 2l twin turbo Amarok is factory rated at 3000kg. V6 Amarok 165kw @550nm torque 3500kg. Took my van towed by the Amarok to weighbridge this week and no issues towing @ 2880kg (first tow for the Rok). Although van is rated to 3500kg, I will never go there in interests of safety and fuel economy. I too believe the small capacity engines will be over stressed pulling large loads. I also found the 8 speed auto in the Amarok was spot on for gear selection in general towing. Only used manual mode on some long downhill runs to assist with braking.
The new Navara D22s also do it on 2.2 litres.
Anybody who tries to tow a 3500kg van with a Navara WOULD need to have rocks in their head! Talk about the tail wagging the Dog......which reminds me.The ONLY way the lightweight twin-cabs have ANY chance of SAFELY towing a 3500kg trailer is if that trailer is a DOG trailer.Cheers.