In case the link doesnt work or hits a subscription required page, this is the bulk of the article
Labor MPs believe turmoil in the Coalition is masking widespread dismay and anger among older voters over the plan to introduce what critics call a retiree tax.
A special Newspoll conducted for The Australian bears out Labors internal concerns over how the policy has been received. Support for the $55.7 billion plan to scrap the refundable tax credits on shares has fallen three percentage points since March, while almost half of those surveyed, 48 per cent, were opposed.
An age breakdown reveals the over-65 bracket is most strongly opposed to the ALPs plan, with 62 per cent of voters in that demographic registering their disapproval of the Labor policy.
Under the commitment, only pensioners and other recipients of government allowances (such as the carer payment or parenting payment) will still receive the cash refunds after Bill Shorten modified the plan earlier this year, following a backlash led by retiree groups. But the policy tweaks wont help John and Jan Bain, who today officially join the nations grey army of 1.1 million self-funded retirees. Mrs Bain, 74, will today work her last shift as a physiotherapist in their home town of Bunbury, 170km south of Perth, while husband John, 72, left his job as a livestock agent 14 years ago after a stroke, then relied on sound money advice to maintain the couples finances on the long road back to good health.
The cost of the concession has ballooned from about $550 million when the measure was introduced by former Liberal treasurer Peter Costello when the budget was in surplus to more than $5bn a year. Labors policy would raise $55.7bn over a decade from July next year if Mr Shorten wins the next election.
Michael Rice, the chief executive of actuarial firm Rice Warner, warned that there would be behavioural changes arising from the Labor policy.
The main groups affected would be retirees on modest incomes holding equities directly and many SMSFs which have assets predominantly in pension accounts, Mr Rice said.
He suggested these groups would shift their assets out of Australian equities, attain higher yields in other assets such as overseas-listed shares or infrastructure trusts or move their assets into unfranked Australian equities.
One consequence could see more people closing their SMSF and moving their assets into an APRA-regulated fund where their franking credits could be offset against other taxable income within the fund.
I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government.
Cheers stay well, be frugal and travel safely - John
Desert Dweller said
05:32 AM Dec 12, 2018
Together with the continuing drop in real estate, that's not good news for some folk.
Izabarack said
07:20 AM Dec 12, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
One consequence could see more people closing their SMSF and moving their assets into an APRA-regulated fund where their franking credits could be offset against other taxable income within the fund.
So what's the problem? Labor's proposal in any form will effect a tiny number of people and those people have alternative strategies available to create a zero sum outcome.
The performance of the currently in power lot is of far more interest to me and mine. The younger Australian coming up to voting age are calling out for recognition of the mess they are going to have to take care of in their future. Old farts carrying on about changes to one small part of the Super economy are lost in the noise.
Iza
TheHeaths said
07:59 AM Dec 12, 2018
Self Funded retirees and those who are approaching retirement, as well as those in the work force planning strategies for income in retirement, are not a "tiny" number of people.
It always interests me when any discussion of retirement incomes, pensions and the like begins, we see an "us and them" commentary start, and the name calling begins.
JayDee said
08:30 AM Dec 12, 2018
This Labor policy if enacted would seen a HUGE ... HUGE... HUGE... number of retirees who via the tax credits do not have to join the queue at Centrelink. This will hit the welfare budget.
Of course the other thing is that all the $6billion tax credit mentioned would therefore be taken out of spending power within the economy.
Ok, it could be argued that the $6 B would generate more value to the economy.
I do not like the way any of our governments are spending our $$$$ let along give one of them another $6B to see it go down that BIG BLACK HOLE.
What we need is to have a TRUMP card in our hand.
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 08:31:50 AM
LLD said
10:38 AM Dec 12, 2018
The theme here is as per normal - Labour / Socialist governments think they can manage your money better than you can whilst Liberal / Capitalist governments like you to manage your own money. Both schemes have their advantages and disadvantages.
Goldfinger said
11:44 AM Dec 12, 2018
Why would you expect to have a refund from ATO for monies you DID NOT PAY one cent for, in the first place....?..it's introduction was a temporary measure...and as usual Investment
Strategies see them as on going for ever.....just like Negative Gearing....another privileged demographic selective tax minimization/wealth creating scheme that not every Australian can avail themselves
of,....and its time the """temporary""" time frame that have more than served their original intentions, came to an end for equality for ALL Australians...2019 will sort out a lot of inequality
issues....bring it on for the sake of all Australians...so all can benefit...Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 11:48:38 AM
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 11:49:59 AM
Kebbin said
02:10 PM Dec 12, 2018
So this is another one of those stories that comes under the heading Apparently, Rocky you should apply for a job with News Limited or Sky News. We are giong to be bombarded with this stuff over the next 5 months, but just out of interest when was it published as I don't subscribe?
rockylizard said
02:19 PM Dec 12, 2018
Gday...
FFS here we go agen.
a) I do not, and would not, have a job with any newspaper;
b) I assume you are suggesting that I am going to be the one to cause the forum to be "bombarded with this stuff over the next 5 months";
c) the article was published Tuesday 11 December 2018.
I can see that there is very little point in my posting ANYTHING that is simply for the information of members of the forum.
No matter what subject I post on there has to be someone who narks up and sticks the boot in.
What the hell is it with this forum lately.
Obviously my statement within the original post - "I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government." was insufficient to stem the narks.
Cheers - stay well, get a life and travel safely - John
Kebbin said
02:51 PM Dec 12, 2018
Your just slightly paranoid there Rocky I was having a jest, now have a pill and a good lay down. You probably should change ya handle to Short Fuse.
Izabarack said
04:32 PM Dec 12, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
Obviously my statement within the original post - "I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government." was insufficient to stem the narks.
Gees, it's a forum and the word forum describes a place where discussion happens. I sometimes see posts here complaining that people do not participate. If people's replies are not important to you, why go back to see what comments are made?
If it is so important for you to censor and/or approve other people's posts, maybe it would be less stressful to start your own forum.
Iza
Desert Dweller said
04:34 PM Dec 12, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
FFS here we go agen.
a) I do not, and would not, have a job with any newspaper;
b) I assume you are suggesting that I am going to be the one to cause the forum to be "bombarded with this stuff over the next 5 months";
c) the article was published Tuesday 11 December 2018.
I can see that there is very little point in my posting ANYTHING that is simply for the information of members of the forum.
No matter what subject I post on there has to be someone who narks up and sticks the boot in.
What the hell is it with this forum lately.
Obviously my statement within the original post - "I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government." was insufficient to stem the narks.
Cheers - stay well, get a life and travel safely - John
You're a slow learner Rocky.
The more content you post on here, the more sh*t you're gonna' cop.
We've been keeping our opinions to ourselves lately after becoming bait for a feeding frenzy a number of times.
Forums are for quietly expressing an opinion on a chosen subject, not a jousting contest with a victorious winner.
There are a few on here that need to understand that.
rockylizard said
04:42 PM Dec 12, 2018
Izabarack wrote:
SNIP~~~ If it is so important for you to censor and/or approve other people's posts, maybe it would be less stressful to start your own forum.
Iza
Gday...
I guess you are reading a different forum to the one I am.
It is not ME who is censoring/approving/disapproving people's posts, but rather a number of narks who revel in being difficult and pointedly having a dig at other posters ... and I am but one of the many on here who are on the receiving end of such jibes.
OH, in case you haven't been keeping up with the narks, you have probably missed that I apparently only post as attention seeking and for my personal gratification.
I just get pissed off completely when some of these narks waste the time of readers of the forum simply to make their genitals grow bigger through their jibes.
I wonder just why some are members on this forum when all they seem to want to do is have little pointed digs at others.
Cheers - stay well, I am not sure I have a life, and travel safely - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 04:45:51 PM
Ron-D said
05:05 PM Dec 12, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
FFS here we go agen.
a) I do not, and would not, have a job with any newspaper;
b) I assume you are suggesting that I am going to be the one to cause the forum to be "bombarded with this stuff over the next 5 months";
c) the article was published Tuesday 11 December 2018.
I can see that there is very little point in my posting ANYTHING that is simply for the information of members of the forum.
No matter what subject I post on there has to be someone who narks up and sticks the boot in.
What the hell is it with this forum lately.
Obviously my statement within the original post - "I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government." was insufficient to stem the narks.
Cheers - stay well, get a life and travel safely - John
You're a slow learner Rocky.
The more content you post on here, the more sh*t you're gonna' cop.
We've been keeping our opinions to ourselves lately after becoming bait for a feeding frenzy a number of times.
Forums are for quietly expressing an opinion on a chosen subject, not a jousting contest with a victorious winner.
There are a few on here that need to understand that.
good onya DD The penny has dropped eh, for how long lol..
LLD said
05:19 PM Dec 12, 2018
There are too many people who seem to lose the plot on this forum. rockylizard posts items of interest that people may or may not want to comment on. He's the messenger and everyone is shooting the messenger rather than the item of interest.
Desert Dweller said
06:24 PM Dec 12, 2018
Ron-D wrote:
Desert Dweller wrote:
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
FFS here we go agen.
a) I do not, and would not, have a job with any newspaper;
b) I assume you are suggesting that I am going to be the one to cause the forum to be "bombarded with this stuff over the next 5 months";
c) the article was published Tuesday 11 December 2018.
I can see that there is very little point in my posting ANYTHING that is simply for the information of members of the forum.
No matter what subject I post on there has to be someone who narks up and sticks the boot in.
What the hell is it with this forum lately.
Obviously my statement within the original post - "I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government." was insufficient to stem the narks.
Cheers - stay well, get a life and travel safely - John
You're a slow learner Rocky.
The more content you post on here, the more sh*t you're gonna' cop.
We've been keeping our opinions to ourselves lately after becoming bait for a feeding frenzy a number of times.
Forums are for quietly expressing an opinion on a chosen subject, not a jousting contest with a victorious winner.
There are a few on here that need to understand that.
good onya DD The penny has dropped eh, for how long lol..
Permanently. The pack mentality always lurks just below the surface & the enemy awaits.
Anyone with a slightly different outlook gets shot down in flames unfortunately.
We call it an extremely narrow outlook on life.
We're not one of the ''sheeple''.
Dickodownunder said
07:30 PM Dec 12, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
FFS here we go agen.
a) I do not, and would not, have a job with any newspaper;
b) I assume you are suggesting that I am going to be the one to cause the forum to be "bombarded with this stuff over the next 5 months";
c) the article was published Tuesday 11 December 2018.
I can see that there is very little point in my posting ANYTHING that is simply for the information of members of the forum.
No matter what subject I post on there has to be someone who narks up and sticks the boot in.
What the hell is it with this forum lately.
Obviously my statement within the original post - "I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government." was insufficient to stem the narks.
Cheers - stay well, get a life and travel safely - John
Hi Rocky,
It is a public forum which, at least when I last checked, it WILL attract opinions from others.
Those opinions may or may not reflect the original posters views...thats life.
To include a disclaimer with relation to any reply or comment is probably not that smart and may be even considered as antagonistic to some.
I have made comment at times on other topics that you have posted similar to the views of some others in the replies in this topic with differing results from the final adjudicator.
I grin and bear it and from that experience I consider that it is good advice.
Back to your topic.
My view and observation is that the goal posts are continually moved with relation to pension, super, investments, etc to provide retirees with the lifestyle in retirement for which many of us has planned. It is extremely difficult to work in the current system.
This goalpost relocation comes from all govt persuasions and us retirees will always be a target as long as we have some money left.
I think most of us do have a life Rocky so I will say Cheers...
blaze said
07:30 PM Dec 12, 2018
just saying
I am a rocky fan
thanks for your varied input
cheers
blaze
rockylizard said
07:39 PM Dec 12, 2018
Gday...
It ain't the opinions expressed ... it is the pointed jibes and sinking in of boots that pisses me orf.
Not just to me ... but from a number of folk to many other member's posts.
WTF do the stirrers join a forum for?
OH - and the 'disclaimer' is to help dispel the oft trotted out line about attention seeking.
cheers, stay well, enjoy ya life, and travel safely - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 07:41:04 PM
Desert Dweller said
07:49 PM Dec 12, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
It ain't the opinions expressed ... it is the pointed jibes and sinking in of boots that pisses me orf.
Not just to me ... but from a number of folk to many other member's posts.
WTF do the stirrers join a forum for?
OH - and the 'disclaimer' is to help dispel the oft trotted out line about attention seeking.
cheers, stay well, enjoy ya life, and travel safely - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 07:41:04 PM
We're with you Rocky, as well educated people in our working life (teaching & structural design engineering) we are sometimes left scratching our heads as to the intelligence level of the average punter.
Radar said
10:09 PM Dec 12, 2018
You know the worst part of all this.
A. I mean it wont matter how many times I read all this I fail to go anywhere near understanding any of it.
B. I was brought up on a formular of "if it don't need fixing leave well enough alone".
So why are the goverment trying to fix what.
Thank you John for bringing to my attention. Ralph
-- Edited by Radar on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 10:10:22 PM
landy said
10:22 PM Dec 12, 2018
Comment removed by Landy.
-- Edited by landy on Thursday 13th of December 2018 07:39:27 AM
Gday
I offer this link to an article in The Australian -
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/grey-army-stirs-for-battle-against-labors-retiree-tax/news-story/d568988efbb70e7ab1056760205dbdb6
In case the link doesnt work or hits a subscription required page, this is the bulk of the article
Labor MPs believe turmoil in the Coalition is masking widespread dismay and anger among older voters over the plan to introduce what critics call a retiree tax.
A special Newspoll conducted for The Australian bears out Labors internal concerns over how the policy has been received. Support for the $55.7 billion plan to scrap the refundable tax credits on shares has fallen three percentage points since March, while almost half of those surveyed, 48 per cent, were opposed.
An age breakdown reveals the over-65 bracket is most strongly opposed to the ALPs plan, with 62 per cent of voters in that demographic registering their disapproval of the Labor policy.
Under the commitment, only pensioners and other recipients of government allowances (such as the carer payment or parenting payment) will still receive the cash refunds after Bill Shorten modified the plan earlier this year, following a backlash led by retiree groups. But the policy tweaks wont help John and Jan Bain, who today officially join the nations grey army of 1.1 million self-funded retirees. Mrs Bain, 74, will today work her last shift as a physiotherapist in their home town of Bunbury, 170km south of Perth, while husband John, 72, left his job as a livestock agent 14 years ago after a stroke, then relied on sound money advice to maintain the couples finances on the long road back to good health.
The cost of the concession has ballooned from about $550 million when the measure was introduced by former Liberal treasurer Peter Costello when the budget was in surplus to more than $5bn a year. Labors policy would raise $55.7bn over a decade from July next year if Mr Shorten wins the next election.
Michael Rice, the chief executive of actuarial firm Rice Warner, warned that there would be behavioural changes arising from the Labor policy.
The main groups affected would be retirees on modest incomes holding equities directly and many SMSFs which have assets predominantly in pension accounts, Mr Rice said.
He suggested these groups would shift their assets out of Australian equities, attain higher yields in other assets such as overseas-listed shares or infrastructure trusts or move their assets into unfranked Australian equities.
One consequence could see more people closing their SMSF and moving their assets into an APRA-regulated fund where their franking credits could be offset against other taxable income within the fund.
I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government.
Cheers stay well, be frugal and travel safely - John
So what's the problem? Labor's proposal in any form will effect a tiny number of people and those people have alternative strategies available to create a zero sum outcome.
The performance of the currently in power lot is of far more interest to me and mine. The younger Australian coming up to voting age are calling out for recognition of the mess they are going to have to take care of in their future. Old farts carrying on about changes to one small part of the Super economy are lost in the noise.
Iza
It always interests me when any discussion of retirement incomes, pensions and the like begins, we see an "us and them" commentary start, and the name calling begins.
This Labor policy if enacted would seen a HUGE ... HUGE... HUGE... number of retirees who via the tax credits do not have to join the queue at Centrelink. This will hit the welfare budget.
Of course the other thing is that all the $6billion tax credit mentioned would therefore be taken out of spending power within the economy.
Ok, it could be argued that the $6 B would generate more value to the economy.
I do not like the way any of our governments are spending our $$$$ let along give one of them another $6B to see it go down that BIG BLACK HOLE.
What we need is to have a TRUMP card in our hand.
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 08:31:50 AM
Why would you expect to have a refund from ATO for monies you DID NOT PAY one cent for, in the first place....?..it's introduction was a temporary measure...and as usual Investment
Strategies see them as on going for ever.....just like Negative Gearing....another privileged demographic selective tax minimization/wealth creating scheme that not every Australian can avail themselves
of,....and its time the """temporary""" time frame that have more than served their original intentions, came to an end for equality for ALL Australians...2019 will sort out a lot of inequality
issues....bring it on for the sake of all Australians...so all can benefit...Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 11:48:38 AM
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 11:49:59 AM
Gday...
FFS
here we go agen.
a) I do not, and would not, have a job with any newspaper;
b) I assume you are suggesting that I am going to be the one to cause the forum to be "bombarded with this stuff over the next 5 months";
c) the article was published Tuesday 11 December 2018.
I can see that there is very little point in my posting ANYTHING that is simply for the information of members of the forum.
No matter what subject I post on there has to be someone who narks up and sticks the boot in.
What the hell is it with this forum lately.
Obviously my statement within the original post - "I have posted this not to garner comments, either supportive or contrary, but simply for information for those of us who may, or may not, be affected by any policy changes that may arrive should there be a change in government." was insufficient to stem the narks.
Cheers - stay well, get a life and travel safely - John
Gees, it's a forum and the word forum describes a place where discussion happens. I sometimes see posts here complaining that people do not participate. If people's replies are not important to you, why go back to see what comments are made?
If it is so important for you to censor and/or approve other people's posts, maybe it would be less stressful to start your own forum.
Iza
You're a slow learner Rocky.
The more content you post on here, the more sh*t you're gonna' cop.
We've been keeping our opinions to ourselves lately after becoming bait for a feeding frenzy a number of times.
Forums are for quietly expressing an opinion on a chosen subject, not a jousting contest with a victorious winner.
There are a few on here that need to understand that.
Gday...
I guess you are reading a different forum to the one I am.
It is not ME who is censoring/approving/disapproving people's posts, but rather a number of narks who revel in being difficult and pointedly having a dig at other posters ... and I am but one of the many on here who are on the receiving end of such jibes.
OH, in case you haven't been keeping up with the narks, you have probably missed that I apparently only post as attention seeking and for my personal gratification.
I just get pissed off completely when some of these narks waste the time of readers of the forum simply to make their genitals grow bigger through their jibes.
I wonder just why some are members on this forum when all they seem to want to do is have little pointed digs at others.
Cheers - stay well, I am not sure I have a life, and travel safely - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 04:45:51 PM
good onya DD The penny has dropped eh, for how long lol..
There are too many people who seem to lose the plot on this forum. rockylizard posts items of interest that people may or may not want to comment on. He's the messenger and everyone is shooting the messenger rather than the item of interest.
Permanently. The pack mentality always lurks just below the surface & the enemy awaits.
Anyone with a slightly different outlook gets shot down in flames unfortunately.
We call it an extremely narrow outlook on life.
We're not one of the ''sheeple''.
Hi Rocky,
It is a public forum which, at least when I last checked, it WILL attract opinions from others.
Those opinions may or may not reflect the original posters views...thats life.
To include a disclaimer with relation to any reply or comment is probably not that smart and may be even considered as antagonistic to some.
I have made comment at times on other topics that you have posted similar to the views of some others in the replies in this topic with differing results from the final adjudicator.
I grin and bear it and from that experience I consider that it is good advice.
Back to your topic.
My view and observation is that the goal posts are continually moved with relation to pension, super, investments, etc to provide retirees with the lifestyle in retirement for which many of us has planned. It is extremely difficult to work in the current system.
This goalpost relocation comes from all govt persuasions and us retirees will always be a target as long as we have some money left.
I think most of us do have a life Rocky so I will say Cheers...
I am a rocky fan
thanks for your varied input
cheers
blaze
Gday...
It ain't the opinions expressed ... it is the pointed jibes and sinking in of boots that pisses me orf.
Not just to me ... but from a number of folk to many other member's posts.
WTF do the stirrers join a forum for?
OH - and the 'disclaimer' is to help dispel the oft trotted out line about attention seeking.
cheers, stay well, enjoy ya life, and travel safely - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 07:41:04 PM
We're with you Rocky, as well educated people in our working life (teaching & structural design engineering) we are sometimes left scratching our heads as to the intelligence level of the average punter.
You know the worst part of all this.
A. I mean it wont matter how many times I read all this I fail to go anywhere near understanding any of it.
B. I was brought up on a formular of "if it don't need fixing leave well enough alone".
So why are the goverment trying to fix what.
Thank you John for bringing to my attention. Ralph
-- Edited by Radar on Wednesday 12th of December 2018 10:10:22 PM
-- Edited by landy on Thursday 13th of December 2018 07:39:27 AM