Hi, With our ever-increasing reliance on data transmission, I thought that it might be of value to keep up to date with the 5G technology that is likely to play a major part in our future life.
The move to lower frequencies that increase transmission distances is certainly the game changer .... NBN Co aught to be worried. The sale price of NBN Co, if it ever happens will certainly take a nose dive given its old old technology & the emergence of a widespread 5G model.
Look for companies investing in 5G when considering your share portfolio.
palaceboy said
03:09 PM Dec 5, 2018
Hmmm I dont know too much about it, but my understanding is range is severly limited with 5G compared to previous Networks. This is where the NBN is vital as its backbone carrier between the hop spots. The other point apparently is that Driverless vehicles and the Network of Things will really need this tech. Driverless/Autonomous will be "The" major single user of this tech, apparently vehicle to vehicle direct....not sure how that works.... That's my reading thus far though.
Waymo go commerical in the US this month apparently. 5G coming online will cause driverless to become a reality far sooner.
Hmmm I dont know too much about it, but my understanding is range is severly limited with 5G compared to previous Networks. This is where the NBN is vital as its backbone carrier between the hop spots. The other point apparently is that Driverless vehicles and the Network of Things will really need this tech. Driverless/Autonomous will be "The" major single user of this tech, apparently vehicle to vehicle direct....not sure how that works.... That's my reading thus far though.
Waymo go commerical in the US this month apparently. 5G coming online will cause driverless to become a reality far sooner.
Yes, you're right. The range of transmission reduces as frequency increases, it seems. As the initial 5G uses ultrahigh frequencies, the transmission range was very limited. My comments on the OP pointed out that they are now using much lower frequencies to overcome that issue albeit with some loss of data speed. Still a way to go perhaps before we see universal coverage.
You're right about its use in autonomous vehicles. This article mentions that too.
Certainly a technology to watch.
edit ... BTW NBN is not a universal network but rather a number of distribution hot spots (POIs .. in Telephone Exchanges 121? in Au) that then connects via 'back haul' often provided by retailers like Telstra to complete the network. It is extremely complex (Just like the Internet)
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 5th of December 2018 03:36:59 PM
LLD said
06:48 PM Dec 5, 2018
Isn't NBN the connection to the home where providers such as Telstra, Optus sell a home service (internet, landlines, Foxtel etc)? It's essentially replacing copper with fibre to get higher speed (capacity). 4G, 5G is the mobile network where the infrastructure is setup by providers such as Telstra & Optus for mobile phone (& hence internet and all that goes with it). Not sure whether NBN needs to be worried just yet but I'm guessing it will disappear.
Countries such as Vietnam have skipped the wire networks for wireless as firstly the never really had a ground network and areas of the country were never able to be connected via wire. Vietnam has a small land mass and high population so wireless is the go.
Reckon we should send telco execs on a (chaufferred) car trip from Sydney to Port Augusta and then to Katherine, Broome, Geraldton and back to Sydney and get them to conduct business all the way via their smart phones / laptops.
-- Edited by LLD on Wednesday 5th of December 2018 07:34:18 PM
Cupie said
11:29 PM Dec 5, 2018
Leo ..
Well, I suppose that the risk to NBN lies in the likely loss of customers in the profitable (heavily populated) areas where a fixed network faces real competition from a faster 5G Mobile service.
Who would choose the NBN Fibre to the node on ageing & fault-prone copper providing 20mBs where a price competitive? 5G service at perhaps 10 or 100 times faster is available. Even NBN FTTP & HFC at 100mBps is at risk.
Maybe the future of fixed networks in the heavily populated areas is in serious doubt. Isn't that where NBN's major asset base is? Retail Telcos may opt to use their own, or leased capacity of 5G, rather than using the fixed NBN. I can't see NBN getting enough capital to overlay their fixed network, before it is even completed, with a 5G network.
I am unsure of how current legislation will impact on the situation.
How will autonomous vehicles requiring 5G go, when they are away from populated areas with no 5G? If that problem is solved then it may provide a platform for universal 5G coverage.
I have read of the option of NBN replacing the copper link of FTTN with 5G. So perhaps Multi-Technology Mix is not such a dumb idea. Or at best, the current dud FTTN may not be a complete waste of money. Some current NBN modems auto switch to 4G (where available) when the NBN is down.
Thinking about it with only a slight understanding of a few of the facts just gives me a headache, but you're right in that it won't be solved any time soon. But whatever the final solution is, NBN certainly faces serious competition that will impact adversely on its profitability and eventual sale price.
But then NBN may not be finished for another 10 or 20 years as it tries to catch up with technological advances. A total FTTP NBN network may just have survived.
What a mess!!! (It's here that I would make a political comment .. but I will restrain myself .. 'cause he's gone)
LLD said
10:09 AM Dec 6, 2018
Cupie.
Your observations / ponderings are pretty much same as mine. Singing from the same hymnbook. I've had NBN fibre to the house for over 4 years now. No complaints once connected. I regularly do a PING test on my NBN using www.speedtest.net and get what I am paying for. Recently I did it on my iPhone (not via my NBN connection) and I got better. Was impressed. Not sure how busy the airwaves would get if we all used them instead of fibre/copper.
PeterD said
05:43 PM Dec 6, 2018
5G is not going to be much use for us. Just read Cupies link and if you understand it then you will see what I mean. To get the super speeds that are being talked about you need heaps of bandwidth, this is not available in the bands that are currently being used. The developments currently being made to the 4G and LTE systems will allow some extra data speeds and allow more services to connect without data speeds reducing.
To get the super speeds that have been promised they are going up into the millimeter wave range. Look at the heading "Millimeter wave" and see what that entails and the results of having to go up there.
All cellular networks use airwaves to ferry data over the air, with standard networks using spectrum in lower frequency bands like 700 megahertz. Generally, the higher the band or frequency, the higher the speed you can achieve. The consequence of higher frequency, however, is shorter range.
To achieve those crazy-high 5G speeds, you need really, really high frequency spectrum. The millimeter wave range falls between 24 gigahertz and 100 gigahertz.
The problem with super-high-frequency spectrum, besides the short range, is it's pretty finicky -- a leaf blows the wrong way and you get interference. Forget about obstacles like walls. Companies like Verizon are working on using software and broadcasting tricks to get around these problems and ensure stable connections.
None of the phone networks are going to install those millimetre wave networks out where we camp.
Hi, With our ever-increasing reliance on data transmission, I thought that it might be of value to keep up to date with the 5G technology that is likely to play a major part in our future life.
This link provides an understandable update
https://www.cnet.com/news/qualcomm-just-us-our-best-glimpse-yet-into-the-5g-revolution/
The move to lower frequencies that increase transmission distances is certainly the game changer .... NBN Co aught to be worried. The sale price of NBN Co, if it ever happens will certainly take a nose dive given its old old technology & the emergence of a widespread 5G model.
Look for companies investing in 5G when considering your share portfolio.
Waymo go commerical in the US this month apparently. 5G coming online will cause driverless to become a reality far sooner.
www.businessinsider.com.au/google-waymo-first-commercial-self-driving-rides-could-happen-as-soon-as-december-report-2018-11
Yes, you're right. The range of transmission reduces as frequency increases, it seems. As the initial 5G uses ultrahigh frequencies, the transmission range was very limited. My comments on the OP pointed out that they are now using much lower frequencies to overcome that issue albeit with some loss of data speed. Still a way to go perhaps before we see universal coverage.
You're right about its use in autonomous vehicles. This article mentions that too.
Certainly a technology to watch.
edit ... BTW NBN is not a universal network but rather a number of distribution hot spots (POIs .. in Telephone Exchanges 121? in Au) that then connects via 'back haul' often provided by retailers like Telstra to complete the network. It is extremely complex (Just like the Internet)
This may help to explain it a little bit ..
https://www.nbnco.com.au/blog/the-nbn-project/how-the-nbn-network-works
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 5th of December 2018 03:36:59 PM
Isn't NBN the connection to the home where providers such as Telstra, Optus sell a home service (internet, landlines, Foxtel etc)? It's essentially replacing copper with fibre to get higher speed (capacity). 4G, 5G is the mobile network where the infrastructure is setup by providers such as Telstra & Optus for mobile phone (& hence internet and all that goes with it). Not sure whether NBN needs to be worried just yet but I'm guessing it will disappear.
Countries such as Vietnam have skipped the wire networks for wireless as firstly the never really had a ground network and areas of the country were never able to be connected via wire. Vietnam has a small land mass and high population so wireless is the go.
Reckon we should send telco execs on a (chaufferred) car trip from Sydney to Port Augusta and then to Katherine, Broome, Geraldton and back to Sydney and get them to conduct business all the way via their smart phones / laptops.
-- Edited by LLD on Wednesday 5th of December 2018 07:34:18 PM
Leo ..
Well, I suppose that the risk to NBN lies in the likely loss of customers in the profitable (heavily populated) areas where a fixed network faces real competition from a faster 5G Mobile service.
Who would choose the NBN Fibre to the node on ageing & fault-prone copper providing 20mBs where a price competitive? 5G service at perhaps 10 or 100 times faster is available. Even NBN FTTP & HFC at 100mBps is at risk.
Maybe the future of fixed networks in the heavily populated areas is in serious doubt. Isn't that where NBN's major asset base is? Retail Telcos may opt to use their own, or leased capacity of 5G, rather than using the fixed NBN. I can't see NBN getting enough capital to overlay their fixed network, before it is even completed, with a 5G network.
I am unsure of how current legislation will impact on the situation.
How will autonomous vehicles requiring 5G go, when they are away from populated areas with no 5G? If that problem is solved then it may provide a platform for universal 5G coverage.
I have read of the option of NBN replacing the copper link of FTTN with 5G. So perhaps Multi-Technology Mix is not such a dumb idea. Or at best, the current dud FTTN may not be a complete waste of money. Some current NBN modems auto switch to 4G (where available) when the NBN is down.
Thinking about it with only a slight understanding of a few of the facts just gives me a headache, but you're right in that it won't be solved any time soon. But whatever the final solution is, NBN certainly faces serious competition that will impact adversely on its profitability and eventual sale price.
But then NBN may not be finished for another 10 or 20 years as it tries to catch up with technological advances. A total FTTP NBN network may just have survived.
What a mess!!! (It's here that I would make a political comment .. but I will restrain myself .. 'cause he's gone)
Your observations / ponderings are pretty much same as mine. Singing from the same hymnbook. I've had NBN fibre to the house for over 4 years now. No complaints once connected. I regularly do a PING test on my NBN using www.speedtest.net and get what I am paying for. Recently I did it on my iPhone (not via my NBN connection) and I got better. Was impressed. Not sure how busy the airwaves would get if we all used them instead of fibre/copper.
5G is not going to be much use for us. Just read Cupies link and if you understand it then you will see what I mean. To get the super speeds that are being talked about you need heaps of bandwidth, this is not available in the bands that are currently being used. The developments currently being made to the 4G and LTE systems will allow some extra data speeds and allow more services to connect without data speeds reducing.
To get the super speeds that have been promised they are going up into the millimeter wave range. Look at the heading "Millimeter wave" and see what that entails and the results of having to go up there.
None of the phone networks are going to install those millimetre wave networks out where we camp.