I like many thousands more enjoy the freedom of choice when headin off with our caravan. Caran Park owners and their state bodies are making inroads through councils and courtrooms into closing down free camps. I have many reasons not to use caravan parks, not just cost, I will not go through them all here. It is about time that forums such as this stand up for those that choose freedom camping. A lobby should be formed to inform councils, town trading groups and whoever else is involved that some caravaners wish to free camp and if free camps are closed down we will simply bypass that town and spend our money in towns that welcome freedom campers. Many towns that have started free camps have shown benefits in the very short term. I recently stayed at Gunderoo NSW Showgrounds for a donation. I also spent money in the pub, general store, post office and pizza restaurant. I believe every little bit helps these small businesses. Please comment as you see fit. It is my opinion. Cheers. Col
Snippy said
12:48 PM Nov 26, 2018
Wholeheartedly agree Colin.
Comments supporting free camping seem to be few and far between on this forum, or is it just me.
Oh pray, please tell!
Mike Harding said
01:26 PM Nov 26, 2018
Colin Penrose wrote:
It is about time that forums such as this stand up for those that choose freedom camping. A lobby should be formed to inform councils, town trading groups and whoever else is involved that some caravaners wish to free camp
An excellent suggestion. Perhaps you will commence the process of forming one and organising such protest?
Dickodownunder said
01:58 PM Nov 26, 2018
Unfortunately nothing is free.
Someone owns the land, and even if the owner does not expect any financial return, someone has to do maintenance, pay rates, insurances, and even collect donations, clean facilities, mow slash and spray and the list may go on.
In more remote country locations some of the small towns businesses do benefit from "free" camping but unfortunately many of these places close down eventually because they rely on campers leaving a donation which at times is a rare occurrence as most believe it should be "free" and there in lies the problem. The town of Morven comes to mind where it has been reported that "free" campers just do not leave any donation for their accomodation on an overnite stopover and how much money do most of them REALLY spend in the town in that circumstance.
The "free" campers are really their own cause of the demise of a lot of these areas.
As you get closer to more heavily populated regions most councils would not consider providing a "free" area to those who don't want to pay because it is just not a sound financial decision and they generally have to answer to the ratepayer in the area. These ratepayers are the people that fund your "free" camping if the council provides a facility.
I personally am not against free camping but from my observations very few people leave a donation, very few people can even bother to place rubbish in bins let alone being asked to take it away and dispose of correctly and many overstay the allocated time period all because of the fact that they consider it a privilege for a community to be graced by the campers presence. There are thousands of truly "free" camp areas in remote Australia but these spots are where only a few genuine campers wish to spend time.
There are many cheaper options such as some farm stays, staying on a property in exchange for some work, etc than expecting the ratepayers of any community to pay for your accomodation. I stayed for a period of time last year at a seaside community in north Qld and this town along with many others does not encourage "free"camping. Many people try to buck the system and they are generally caught up with by the council officers. I was amazed one afternoon when a guy with a huge van and a big Chevy S, cruised around and finally parked up in a parking area by the mouth of a local river. What was more amazing was that it was the locals that dobbed him in to the council for illegal camping. It was those locals that stated that they did not want their rates supporting free loaders....their words not mine. The guy turned up into one of the many caravan parks in the area and proceeded to grizzle to the managers that he was not permitted to "free"camp. His claim was that he was only staying the night so what would it matter.
I am not a member but don't the CMCA and some other clubs / groups have areas where they offer cheaper stays than the average C/V park? This may be an alternative to a caravan park stay that is funded by the user membership which is a much fairer alternative than expecting a ratepayer to support someone who is not even a paying member of their own community.
Another fact is that many who are paying customers in caravan parks and other facilities still spend money in the town so that argument is mute in many cases.
-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Monday 26th of November 2018 02:00:08 PM
Colin Penrose said
02:37 PM Nov 26, 2018
I am not a freeloader and I do leave donations, clean up and support local businesses as many more of us do. We want choice. Someone suggested that I start the movement to approach appropriate bodies. Not tech savvy so how would I do that ???
jrg said
03:31 PM Nov 26, 2018
Dicko wanted to write along the very same lines but now I don,t have to you,ve said it all and very well. But me thinks you might need to climb downunder something the "given right" movement will be out and about.
Mike Harding said
03:38 PM Nov 26, 2018
Colin Penrose wrote:
Someone suggested that I start the movement to approach appropriate bodies. Not tech savvy so how would I do that ???
It's not essential to be computer familiar in order to organise a protest movement although, in these days, it probably helps.
I guess you would need to do like the rest of us... learn....
Over my decades I have heard *so many* people poke their heads up and say "Something must be done!" yet I cannot remember one who actually *did* anything.
What they really mean is "Something must be done!"... "by someone else...."
Baz421 said
03:42 PM Nov 26, 2018
Agree Colin,
about 10 years ago I was on the ExploreOz web as a member and this was canvassed extensively on several related forums like the CMCA model ie strength in numbers when people have a common cause.
Caravanners went into a spin, couldn't agree on ANYTHING to form a cohesive group.
Like this forum, some nay sayers are there looking to attack anything posted, just to have their voice (freedom of opinion etc etc) to which they are entitled no questions asked.
Those seeking to do something positive, often simply give up.
If we could start a forum of positive thinkers,,,, if only??????
My 2 cents worth.
I'll duck my head now,,,,, nuff said lol
Baz421 said
03:50 PM Nov 26, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
Colin Penrose wrote:
Someone suggested that I start the movement to approach appropriate bodies. Not tech savvy so how would I do that ???
It's not essential to be computer familiar in order to organise a protest movement although, in these days, it probably helps.
I guess you would need to do like the rest of us... learn....
Over my decades I have heard *so many* people poke their heads up and say "Something must be done!" yet I cannot remember one who actually *did* anything.
What they really mean is "Something must be done!"... "by someone else...."
Hi Mike I prefer people with common purpose/interest rather than use the term protest. In my 11 years travelling I believe many towns enjoy quite a benefit from grey nomads,,, food, bakeries, diesel, sundries too numerous to list.
Yep the question is who will do it,,, if I was 30 years younger I'd give it a go plus start an interactive website that shows what's ON BEFORE YOU GET TO A LOCATION/TOWN.
Too many tourist offices only have what's on locally and state sites aren't much better.
-- Edited by Baz421 on Monday 26th of November 2018 04:01:18 PM
Colin Penrose said
04:07 PM Nov 26, 2018
I see Free and cheap camping Australia has over 16,000 members maybe I should try on there ????
Yuglamron said
04:10 PM Nov 26, 2018
Come on folks get real.
Set up something to promote free or freedom camping.
Good idea But... We Can't Even Run the Bloody Country Properly.
Costs us all an arm and a leg and our firstborn and we still can't get that right.
Izabarack said
04:28 PM Nov 26, 2018
Dickodownunder wrote:
...... paying customers in caravan parks and other facilities still spend money in the town so that argument is mute in many cases.
The problem is most to do with CP owners insisting that travellers spend the first $30/40/50/60 per day at their CP before the other businesses in town get a look in; hardly competitive. CPs need a levy on their rates to pay for the preferential treatment they get when councils ban free camping.
Ratepayers already pay for lots of facilities, for example, public toilets and parks and kerbside pickup and mowing, so the cost of allocating a patch of hard stand for self contained travellers does not get above the noise in any council budget. Most councils have the showgrounds going empty and unused for the majority of the year so $10 a night for the self contained seems a good deal for travellers and council alike.
Iza
Baz421 said
05:10 PM Nov 26, 2018
Yuglamron wrote:
Come on folks get real.
Set up something to promote free or freedom camping.
Good idea But... We Can't Even Run the Bloody Country Properly.
Costs us all an arm and a leg and our firstborn and we still can't get that right.
Heyyyy please don't compare me with politicians,,,, I'm competent and can think up solutions,,,lol
Whenarewethere said
05:45 PM Nov 26, 2018
Dickodownunder wrote:
As you get closer to more heavily populated regions most councils would not consider providing a "free" area to those who don't want to pay because it is just not a sound financial decision and they generally have to answer to the ratepayer in the area. These ratepayers are the people that fund your "free" camping if the council provides a facility.
Our tiny council (pre amalgamation) provides 27 public toilets. Residents on the whole don't need them. Over the years of precinct committee meetings we got council to install another female toilet. There was a lot of complex issues due to the limited sewer mains limitations in the area, but we got one more toilet for the girls! Council has done numbers on tourists and basically the 1 in 6 visitors buys an icecream or similar. The toilets cost about $3 million a year to maintain.
We don't have camping in the area but we provide a lot of services in other ways where visitors can do a lot of things for free if they park their car carefully.
Even free filtered tap water in a good number of locations.
Aus-Kiwi said
05:55 PM Nov 26, 2018
Free camp or not . They cant stop me parking and sleeping off the road .
Ubif said
05:57 PM Nov 26, 2018
I have seen a tandem van camped in a driver reviver site at Innisfail FNQ
has been there for 4 weeks. yes he may spend money in town but
there are signs no camping also 4 caravan parks in town no wonder they are
kicking up a stink. We mainly go to national parks $6 a night and I have seen
people sit in day use area and when they think the rangers wont come
they pick a site to camp. I have seen a few red faces when campers arrive with their pre paid
receipt for that camp site. If people start to abuse the system then the system will shut them down
my opinion
Mark
Radar said
06:00 PM Nov 26, 2018
jrg wrote:
Dicko wanted to write along the very same lines but now I don,t have to you,ve said it all and very well. But me thinks you might need to climb downunder something the "given right" movement will be out and about.
I would agree also. Well said.
So make room for us downunder also.
madaboutled said
08:28 PM Nov 26, 2018
Colin Penrose wrote:
I am not a freeloader and I do leave donations, clean up and support local businesses as many more of us do. We want choice. Someone suggested that I start the movement to approach appropriate bodies. Not tech savvy so how would I do that ???
There's also info about the survey on these forums be it a year or 2 old. Phil's survey contains factual information that was submitted to councils around the country. In terms of a movement on "Freedom Camping" I think you'll find hundreds of not thousands would support it. If such a movement was formed, I for one would support it and would put my hand up to get involved.
Regards Steve.
TheHeaths said
09:22 PM Nov 26, 2018
Colin Penrose wrote:
.........It is about time that forums such as this stand up for those that choose freedom camping. A lobby should be formed to inform councils, town trading groups and whoever else is involved that some caravaners wish to free camp and if free camps are closed down we will simply bypass that town and spend our money in towns that welcome freedom campers. ................
Colin,
I support freedom camping where the town and community provide it freely and willingly.
I don't support the use of threats, implied or direct, to make places provide it. The town is entitled to freedom of choice as much as any camper is. If this forum was to take your approach, I for one would oppose it and argue against it. I suggest there would be others like that
A forum such as this has people across the whole spectrum of campers so really cannot set itself with a single view, and as such, should not make a stand that is not supported by 100% of the membership. If the support for your idea is 100% then so be it, but otherwise, I suggest you and others with the same view should set up a different lobby group to put your point of view, and use the tactics you feel comfortable with.
And remember those who support caravan parks spend money in those towns as well. The freedom camper dollar is not unique, nor worth any more than the 100 cents that a caravan park users dollar is..
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 26th of November 2018 09:24:02 PM
iana said
10:02 PM Nov 26, 2018
Whenarewethere wrote:
Our tiny council (pre amalgamation) provides 27 public toilets. Residents on the whole don't need them.
Did I read that right, Ha Ha.
Shrek said
10:16 PM Nov 26, 2018
I too enjoy freedom camping when it is available. I also use caravan parks when it suits me.
I wlil relate a conversation that I had with a caravan park owner on the cassowary coast in Qld a few years ago. It went something like this. It was in the off season and the park was only 20% full. I suggested to the park owner that the park being only third full, perhaps they could attract more custom by offering grey nomads with a seniors card or pension card a reduced rate in the off season, spaces permitting. There is a large market of travelers on the road at any given time and a full park is preferable to an empty one.
I think that her reply says it all about caravan park attitudes. "" I am not in the business of providing free accommodation for anybody. I would rather close the park down first""" .
It's this attitude that puts me off van parks in general.
Warren-Pat_01 said
12:34 AM Nov 27, 2018
I'm not going to buy into this argument/conversation other than to state a few facts. Dickodownunder has stated most of my feelings.
Sure some people do make donations to "Free camps" but a lot don't. Likewise the rubbish situation and buying an icecream doesn't keep a business going.
A couple of years ago the C&MH magazine did a write up on the costs that governments both State & Local hit the caravan park owners with. They screw everyone who lives in or visits their towns. Sometimes I wonder how some parks can exist on the pittance they charge for power, especially when air conditioners, etc are run on some vans all day & night!
Yes we all know there are "flash" caravan parks (generally the Big4 brand) that cater for richer families for a holiday period but there are cheaper parks available that cater for the likes of us. We are members of Top & Kui Parks - the latter are generally cheaper yet still offer good facilities.
All of Qld is about to be hit by the state government over a Waste lLevy ($70 a ton) - to prevent rubbish from being sent from NSW into southern Qld. BUT they are going to get ALL councils in Qld to cough up that amount. I fail to see that trucks will be bringing "southern" rubbish to Townsville - but it doesn't matter. According to Madam Premier & her useless (to us) members, we ALL have to pay (the Socialist way?) - so our rates & your C-Pk fees will be going up again!
Aus-Kiwi said
12:44 AM Nov 27, 2018
Imo Im not free loading . I paid my taxs etc over the years . The people who say its free loading are possibly caravan park people . Unless there is a sign etc ? It is not illegal to park over night . Understand at times theres so many in one area .Thats when I move on .
Whenarewethere said
01:10 AM Nov 27, 2018
iana wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
Our tiny council (pre amalgamation) provides 27 public toilets. Residents on the whole don't need them.
Did I read that right, Ha Ha.
Council has been rebuilding one block for the last six months with wheelchair access. It has basically been rebuilt with more toilets. I did use this one once about 40 years ago, so I do occasionally use them!
They are cleaned daily, or should I say nightly as another block which we can see in the distance, the cleaners do this one about 4am so they are clean the next day.
Desert Dweller said
06:03 AM Nov 27, 2018
Whoever invented the term FREE CAMPING needs to be shot. It makes people sound like a bunch of scavengers.
JayDee said
07:10 AM Nov 27, 2018
Yes agree.........It would new a benefit to know if say this forum, which 100's of us visit and spend time to contribute to the forum, are partaking in any way to further our cause re our choice to Freedom Camping in and around our great country.
Jay&Dee
rockylizard said
08:13 AM Nov 27, 2018
Gday...
I have always loved camping - whether that is at a campground/camp spot that has no fee or at a campground/camp spot that is low-cost or just sitting in the bush somewhere away from the madding crowd.
I camp 'off the grid' probably 12 days out every 14 on average. I prefer to be camped 'off the grid' at spots that are ACTUALLY camping spots. I do not like to spend time at what are really rest areas unless it is because I am 'travelling through' and just need somewhere to stop and rest/sleep.
I do my restocking of the pantry when driving THROUGH these larger towns - and then travel on to a camping spot.
If there is some reason I need to be in a town for more than a night then I will always stay in a van park. I fail to see why being cramped into a piece of dirt within a town is so attractive. OH, it is free they say - but who wants to sleep in a car park calling itself a rest area with the misnomer of 'camp'. If I am going to be sharing my 'space' with others close by, then I might as well pay for amenities - HOT showers, flushing toilets, power, mains water etc and luxuriate.
It is fairly obvious that, as the 'travelling public' increase in number, car parks calling themselves a rest area pretending to be a camp within larger towns are on the endangered list. This is mainly because of the way many, as described by Dickodownunder, are treated by the 'travelling public.
Certainly, ,CMCA is buying/leasing pieces within towns and then charging a small fee to their members (only) and these may continue to grow in number. However, unless one is a member of CMCA, FULLY self-contained and willing to park in a largish group, they are a bit offputting.
The many 100s of proper camping areas throughout this wide brown and exciting land will continue to be available at low- or no-cost. Similarly, those very small towns away from the east coast will continue to welcome the 'travelling public' and their money and in many instances provide a place to stop for a night or day or two in what are more than just a glorified rest area/car park.
Bottom line from my point of view - if you want to 'camp' then do so in a camping ground or camping spot set away from cities and enjoy the experience. If you want to visit cities for whatever reason, then stop in van parks either in the town you are visiting, or at one close by and travel to the city as required.
In answer to the OP, do I want to form a group of caravanners to agitate along the lines pushed by CMCA for some years ... No. I mostly agree with these larger towns/cities closing the carparks/rest areas that are seen as 'the right' of some to be provided free of cost (to them) but mostly mistreated by many of these same 'travellers'.
Cheers - stay well and travel safely - John
Dickodownunder said
08:30 AM Nov 27, 2018
Shrek wrote:
I too enjoy freedom camping when it is available. I also use caravan parks when it suits me.
I wlil relate a conversation that I had with a caravan park owner on the cassowary coast in Qld a few years ago. It went something like this. It was in the off season and the park was only 20% full. I suggested to the park owner that the park being only third full, perhaps they could attract more custom by offering grey nomads with a seniors card or pension card a reduced rate in the off season, spaces permitting. There is a large market of travelers on the road at any given time and a full park is preferable to an empty one.
I think that her reply says it all about caravan park attitudes. "" I am not in the business of providing free accommodation for anybody. I would rather close the park down first""" .
It's this attitude that puts me off van parks in general.
While I can understand your reasoning of having more people stay in the park, be it a cheaper rate, there is a fine line in many businesses regarding profit and loss.
Profit means that the owner is around next year and his / her family is fed and supported, loss means that wont be happening.
The very nature of this topic suggests by some that camps should be free and to expect a business to run at a loss to accomodate the wishes of a selfish minority is to put it simply and politely, very selfish.
Many coastal parks in North Qld do offer reduced rates in their quiet season and to expect the operators to drop this price even further is a tad unfair.
In the above case the owner was correct in her decision in as much that if she takes a booking that costs her money then it really is cheaper to leave the site vacant.
My dear old Dad gave me some good advice when I was starting out in my first business.
His words were;
It is not so much what you earn but what you spend to earn it
This applies to all businesses, not only caravan parks.
I do apologise to the op for taking this a bit off topic but I do feel that some need to know that there is a cut of figure when a price is set in any business.
montie said
08:39 AM Nov 27, 2018
I am all in favour of low cost camping wherever possible, however nothing is "free". Rates and taxes have to be paid, insurance maintained and in urban areas very strict compliancing regulations must be met as was demonstrated recently at Kershaw Gardens. RCC wanted to offer a "free" camping facility there, however they were simply not meeting their own compliancing regulations that they were imposing on other ratepayers.
It is my opinion that "free camping" days in urban city areas are numbered. Even without compliancing, the ratepayers still must fund the maintenance of such a facility, plus you simply cannot have one set of rules for the Council and another set for business operators who are paying many $000's of dollars in rates,taxes,insurance and compliancing.
I think the promotion of low cost camping in rural areas, where compliancing is not as strict, would be far more productive for any lobby group. Lobbying city councils for free camping, going forward, I fear will fall on deaf ears.
It will now be interesting to see if RCC will spend the $000's of dollars required to make Kershaw Gardens comply.
Whenarewethere said
09:34 AM Nov 27, 2018
Dickodownunder wrote:
It is not so much what you earn but what you spend to earn it
I like many thousands more enjoy the freedom of choice when headin off with our caravan. Caran Park owners and their state bodies are making inroads through councils and courtrooms into closing down free camps. I have many reasons not to use caravan parks, not just cost, I will not go through them all here. It is about time that forums such as this stand up for those that choose freedom camping. A lobby should be formed to inform councils, town trading groups and whoever else is involved that some caravaners wish to free camp and if free camps are closed down we will simply bypass that town and spend our money in towns that welcome freedom campers. Many towns that have started free camps have shown benefits in the very short term. I recently stayed at Gunderoo NSW Showgrounds for a donation. I also spent money in the pub, general store, post office and pizza restaurant. I believe every little bit helps these small businesses. Please comment as you see fit. It is my opinion. Cheers. Col
Comments supporting free camping seem to be few and far between on this forum, or is it just me.
Oh pray, please tell!
An excellent suggestion. Perhaps you will commence the process of forming one and organising such protest?
Unfortunately nothing is free.
Someone owns the land, and even if the owner does not expect any financial return, someone has to do maintenance, pay rates, insurances, and even collect donations, clean facilities, mow slash and spray and the list may go on.
In more remote country locations some of the small towns businesses do benefit from "free" camping but unfortunately many of these places close down eventually because they rely on campers leaving a donation which at times is a rare occurrence as most believe it should be "free" and there in lies the problem.
The town of Morven comes to mind where it has been reported that "free" campers just do not leave any donation for their accomodation on an overnite stopover and how much money do most of them REALLY spend in the town in that circumstance.
The "free" campers are really their own cause of the demise of a lot of these areas.
As you get closer to more heavily populated regions most councils would not consider providing a "free" area to those who don't want to pay because it is just not a sound financial decision and they generally have to answer to the ratepayer in the area. These ratepayers are the people that fund your "free" camping if the council
provides a facility.
I personally am not against free camping but from my observations very few people leave a donation, very few people can even bother to place rubbish in bins let alone being asked to take it away and dispose of correctly and many overstay the allocated time period all because of the fact that they consider it a privilege for a community to be graced by the campers presence.
There are thousands of truly "free" camp areas in remote Australia but these spots are where only a few genuine campers wish to spend time.
There are many cheaper options such as some farm stays, staying on a property in exchange for some work, etc than expecting the ratepayers of any community to pay for your accomodation.
I stayed for a period of time last year at a seaside community in north Qld and this town along with many others does not encourage "free"camping.
Many people try to buck the system and they are generally caught up with by the council officers.
I was amazed one afternoon when a guy with a huge van and a big Chevy S, cruised around and finally parked up in a parking area by the mouth of a local river.
What was more amazing was that it was the locals that dobbed him in to the council for illegal camping.
It was those locals that stated that they did not want their rates supporting free loaders....their words not mine.
The guy turned up into one of the many caravan parks in the area and proceeded to grizzle to the managers that he was not permitted to "free"camp. His claim was that he was only staying the night so what would it matter.
I am not a member but don't the CMCA and some other clubs / groups have areas where they offer cheaper stays than the average C/V park?
This may be an alternative to a caravan park stay that is funded by the user membership which is a much fairer alternative than expecting a ratepayer to support someone who is not even a paying member of their own community.
Another fact is that many who are paying customers in caravan parks and other facilities still spend money in the town so that argument is mute in many cases.
-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Monday 26th of November 2018 02:00:08 PM
It's not essential to be computer familiar in order to organise a protest movement although, in these days, it probably helps.
I guess you would need to do like the rest of us... learn....
Over my decades I have heard *so many* people poke their heads up and say "Something must be done!" yet I cannot remember one who actually *did* anything.
What they really mean is "Something must be done!"... "by someone else...."
Agree Colin,
about 10 years ago I was on the ExploreOz web as a member and this was canvassed extensively on several related forums like the CMCA model ie strength in numbers when people have a common cause.
Caravanners went into a spin, couldn't agree on ANYTHING to form a cohesive group.
Like this forum, some nay sayers are there looking to attack anything posted, just to have their voice (freedom of opinion etc etc) to which they are entitled no questions asked.
Those seeking to do something positive, often simply give up.
If we could start a forum of positive thinkers,,,, if only??????
My 2 cents worth.
I'll duck my head now,,,,, nuff said lol
Hi Mike I prefer people with common purpose/interest rather than use the term protest. In my 11 years travelling I believe many towns enjoy quite a benefit from grey nomads,,, food, bakeries, diesel, sundries too numerous to list.
Yep the question is who will do it,,, if I was 30 years younger I'd give it a go plus start an interactive website that shows what's ON BEFORE YOU GET TO A LOCATION/TOWN.
Too many tourist offices only have what's on locally and state sites aren't much better.
-- Edited by Baz421 on Monday 26th of November 2018 04:01:18 PM
Come on folks get real.
Set up something to promote free or freedom camping.
Good idea But... We Can't Even Run the Bloody Country Properly.
Costs us all an arm and a leg and our firstborn and we still can't get that right.
The problem is most to do with CP owners insisting that travellers spend the first $30/40/50/60 per day at their CP before the other businesses in town get a look in; hardly competitive. CPs need a levy on their rates to pay for the preferential treatment they get when councils ban free camping.
Ratepayers already pay for lots of facilities, for example, public toilets and parks and kerbside pickup and mowing, so the cost of allocating a patch of hard stand for self contained travellers does not get above the noise in any council budget. Most councils have the showgrounds going empty and unused for the majority of the year so $10 a night for the self contained seems a good deal for travellers and council alike.
Iza
Heyyyy please don't compare me with politicians,,,, I'm competent and can think up solutions,,,lol
Our tiny council (pre amalgamation) provides 27 public toilets. Residents on the whole don't need them. Over the years of precinct committee meetings we got council to install another female toilet. There was a lot of complex issues due to the limited sewer mains limitations in the area, but we got one more toilet for the girls! Council has done numbers on tourists and basically the 1 in 6 visitors buys an icecream or similar. The toilets cost about $3 million a year to maintain.
We don't have camping in the area but we provide a lot of services in other ways where visitors can do a lot of things for free if they park their car carefully.
Even free filtered tap water in a good number of locations.
has been there for 4 weeks. yes he may spend money in town but
there are signs no camping also 4 caravan parks in town no wonder they are
kicking up a stink. We mainly go to national parks $6 a night and I have seen
people sit in day use area and when they think the rangers wont come
they pick a site to camp. I have seen a few red faces when campers arrive with their pre paid
receipt for that camp site. If people start to abuse the system then the system will shut them down
my opinion
Mark
I would agree also. Well said.
So make room for us downunder also.
Hi Collin,
May I suggest that you PM Ozzie_Traveller ( Phil Jones ) for a discussion and advice. Phil was the instigator of the Freedom Camping web site & survey.
There's also info about the survey on these forums be it a year or 2 old. Phil's survey contains factual information that was submitted to councils around the country. In terms of a movement on "Freedom Camping" I think you'll find hundreds of not thousands would support it. If such a movement was formed, I for one would support it and would put my hand up to get involved.
Regards Steve.
Colin,
I support freedom camping where the town and community provide it freely and willingly.
I don't support the use of threats, implied or direct, to make places provide it. The town is entitled to freedom of choice as much as any camper is. If this forum was to take your approach, I for one would oppose it and argue against it. I suggest there would be others like that
A forum such as this has people across the whole spectrum of campers so really cannot set itself with a single view, and as such, should not make a stand that is not supported by 100% of the membership. If the support for your idea is 100% then so be it, but otherwise, I suggest you and others with the same view should set up a different lobby group to put your point of view, and use the tactics you feel comfortable with.
And remember those who support caravan parks spend money in those towns as well. The freedom camper dollar is not unique, nor worth any more than the 100 cents that a caravan park users dollar is..
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 26th of November 2018 09:24:02 PM
Our tiny council (pre amalgamation) provides 27 public toilets. Residents on the whole don't need them.
Did I read that right, Ha Ha.
I wlil relate a conversation that I had with a caravan park owner on the cassowary coast in Qld a few years ago. It went something like this. It was in the off season and the park was only 20% full. I suggested to the park owner that the park being only third full, perhaps they could attract more custom by offering grey nomads with a seniors card or pension card a reduced rate in the off season, spaces permitting. There is a large market of travelers on the road at any given time and a full park is preferable to an empty one.
I think that her reply says it all about caravan park attitudes. "" I am not in the business of providing free accommodation for anybody. I would rather close the park down first""" .
It's this attitude that puts me off van parks in general.
Sure some people do make donations to "Free camps" but a lot don't. Likewise the rubbish situation and buying an icecream doesn't keep a business going.
A couple of years ago the C&MH magazine did a write up on the costs that governments both State & Local hit the caravan park owners with. They screw everyone who lives in or visits their towns. Sometimes I wonder how some parks can exist on the pittance they charge for power, especially when air conditioners, etc are run on some vans all day & night!
Yes we all know there are "flash" caravan parks (generally the Big4 brand) that cater for richer families for a holiday period but there are cheaper parks available that cater for the likes of us. We are members of Top & Kui Parks - the latter are generally cheaper yet still offer good facilities.
All of Qld is about to be hit by the state government over a Waste lLevy ($70 a ton) - to prevent rubbish from being sent from NSW into southern Qld. BUT they are going to get ALL councils in Qld to cough up that amount. I fail to see that trucks will be bringing "southern" rubbish to Townsville - but it doesn't matter. According to Madam Premier & her useless (to us) members, we ALL have to pay (the Socialist way?) - so our rates & your C-Pk fees will be going up again!
Council has been rebuilding one block for the last six months with wheelchair access. It has basically been rebuilt with more toilets. I did use this one once about 40 years ago, so I do occasionally use them!
They are cleaned daily, or should I say nightly as another block which we can see in the distance, the cleaners do this one about 4am so they are clean the next day.
Yes agree.........It would new a benefit to know if say this forum, which 100's of us visit and spend time to contribute to the forum, are partaking in any way to further our cause re our choice to Freedom Camping in and around our great country.
Jay&Dee
Gday...
I have always loved camping - whether that is at a campground/camp spot that has no fee or at a campground/camp spot that is low-cost or just sitting in the bush somewhere away from the madding crowd.
I camp 'off the grid' probably 12 days out every 14 on average. I prefer to be camped 'off the grid' at spots that are ACTUALLY camping spots. I do not like to spend time at what are really rest areas unless it is because I am 'travelling through' and just need somewhere to stop and rest/sleep.
I do my restocking of the pantry when driving THROUGH these larger towns - and then travel on to a camping spot.
If there is some reason I need to be in a town for more than a night then I will always stay in a van park. I fail to see why being cramped into a piece of dirt within a town is so attractive. OH, it is free they say - but who wants to sleep in a car park calling itself a rest area with the misnomer of 'camp'. If I am going to be sharing my 'space' with others close by, then I might as well pay for amenities - HOT showers, flushing toilets, power, mains water etc and luxuriate.
It is fairly obvious that, as the 'travelling public' increase in number, car parks calling themselves a rest area pretending to be a camp within larger towns are on the endangered list. This is mainly because of the way many, as described by Dickodownunder, are treated by the 'travelling public.
Certainly, ,CMCA is buying/leasing pieces within towns and then charging a small fee to their members (only) and these may continue to grow in number. However, unless one is a member of CMCA, FULLY self-contained and willing to park in a largish group, they are a bit offputting.
The many 100s of proper camping areas throughout this wide brown and exciting land will continue to be available at low- or no-cost. Similarly, those very small towns away from the east coast will continue to welcome the 'travelling public' and their money and in many instances provide a place to stop for a night or day or two in what are more than just a glorified rest area/car park.
Bottom line from my point of view - if you want to 'camp' then do so in a camping ground or camping spot set away from cities and enjoy the experience. If you want to visit cities for whatever reason, then stop in van parks either in the town you are visiting, or at one close by and travel to the city as required.
In answer to the OP, do I want to form a group of caravanners to agitate along the lines pushed by CMCA for some years ... No. I mostly agree with these larger towns/cities closing the carparks/rest areas that are seen as 'the right' of some to be provided free of cost (to them) but mostly mistreated by many of these same 'travellers'.
Cheers - stay well and travel safely - John
While I can understand your reasoning of having more people stay in the park, be it a cheaper rate, there is a fine line in many businesses regarding profit and loss.
Profit means that the owner is around next year and his / her family is fed and supported, loss means that wont be happening.
The very nature of this topic suggests by some that camps should be free and to expect a business to run at a loss to accomodate the wishes of a selfish minority is to put it simply and politely, very selfish.
Many coastal parks in North Qld do offer reduced rates in their quiet season and to expect the operators to drop this price even further is a tad unfair.
In the above case the owner was correct in her decision in as much that if she takes a booking that costs her money then it really is cheaper to leave the site vacant.
My dear old Dad gave me some good advice when I was starting out in my first business.
His words were;
It is not so much what you earn but what you spend to earn it
This applies to all businesses, not only caravan parks.
I do apologise to the op for taking this a bit off topic but I do feel that some need to know that there is a cut of figure when a price is set in any business.
I am all in favour of low cost camping wherever possible, however nothing is "free". Rates and taxes have to be paid, insurance maintained and in urban areas very strict compliancing regulations must be met as was demonstrated recently at Kershaw Gardens. RCC wanted to offer a "free" camping facility there, however they were simply not meeting their own compliancing regulations that they were imposing on other ratepayers.
It is my opinion that "free camping" days in urban city areas are numbered. Even without compliancing, the ratepayers still must fund the maintenance of such a facility, plus you simply cannot have one set of rules for the Council and another set for business operators who are paying many $000's of dollars in rates,taxes,insurance and compliancing.
I think the promotion of low cost camping in rural areas, where compliancing is not as strict, would be far more productive for any lobby group. Lobbying city councils for free camping, going forward, I fear will fall on deaf ears.
It will now be interesting to see if RCC will spend the $000's of dollars required to make Kershaw Gardens comply.
It is easier to save a dollar than earn a dollar!