I am aware this subject has been thrashed to death over the past years on this and other forums, but it doesn't hurt to revisit these sorts of articles or, for any newbies, to get some food for thought.
Saw someone with a Jeep Cherokee who tows a 3300kg van..... How? Braked it can tow 3500kgs.
200kgs load capacity left. What about all the add ons, bullbar fuel 50 litres at 46kgs,water and all the rest of the stuff including I would assume Two adults. I would imagine two adults at 125 to 150kgs
On the Hume Highway last week heading to Albury and up a gentle rise.Passed by a twin axle van behind a late model Jeep Cherokee, probably doing 90/95. the caravan swaying around like a pendulum.
The whole towing weights thing needs to be looked at.
Just have to Look at the report by Clayton's Towing about their take on Caravan Crashes to see how bad it's getting.
https://claytonstowing.com.au/caravan-crashes/
-- Edited by Yuglamron on Sunday 25th of November 2018 01:38:15 PM
STRETCH ARMSTRONG said
11:26 AM Nov 25, 2018
Even though it may be a pain in the butt to be pulled up and weighed, l really do hope they start doing it soon. Some of the setups l've seen recently are scary.
Whenarewethere said
12:50 PM Nov 25, 2018
Be very careful of what you add. It adds up extremely quickly and you have no capacity for critical items!
We don't have a tow bar which weigh a far bit themselves, bull bar, draw system, tool box, aerials, driving lights, winch, under body protection, roof platform (did have one, got rid of it to save weight), boat, outboard, or kayak, life vests, fishing equipment, UHF radio (looking at getting one), BBQ & cleaning equipment (boil only & buy fried food when in town). We only have a tiny fridge and small battery. Our wheels are small at 255/60 R18 30kg each.
Items added to our car:
145.000 People (one has to reduce a bit!) x2
12.000 Roof rack rails & 1 pair cross bars x1 _3.600 Second pair cross bars x1 _4.000 Solar panel & tyre bracket x1 30.000 Wheel second spare x1 _4.600 Fuel rack aluminium x1 36.000 Fuel tanks 10 litres x4 _3.000 Fuel rack aluminium small x1 _9.000 Fuel tanks 5 litres x2 _0.080 Fuel tank nozzle x2 15.200 Solar panels x1 12.000 Sand tracks x4 12.000 Awning x1
20.972 Water container 10 litre 0.486 x2 42.656 Water container 5 litre 0.332 x8 _3.414 Water container 1 litre 0.138 x3 _1.000 Thermos flask x1
_3.700 Fire extinguishers 1kg x2 _0.300 Hi vis vests x2 16.000 Compressor 4.5kg x3 _1.350 Air tank 4 litres x1 _0.636 Air dryer x1 _0.388 Pressure gauge x1 _0.084 Pressure gauge electronic x2 _0.132 Fitting x1 _0.556 Air hose 6 metre ARB orange x1 _0.426 Air hose 2 metre blue x1 _0.362 Air hose 1.5 metre blue x1 _0.264 Air hose 0.8 metre blue x1 _0.106 Air duster cleaner x1
_2.100 Jumper leads 175 anderson to clamp x1 _3.900 Jumper leads 300 amp continuous x1 29.000 Battery 26ah 8.35kg + brackets x3 _1.000 MPPT x1 _1.490 6awg 4m 50ah anderson x1 _0.954 8awg 4m 50ah anderson x1 _0.254 12awg 2.2m anderson x1 _0.342 12awg 2m 50/35 ah anderson x1 _0.282 12awg 35ah fridge lead 1 _0.112 Fridge power lead x1 _0.210 Fridge 240 volt lead x1 15.000 Fridge 28 litres inc. extra insulation x1 _0.100 12 volt lead 1m x3 _0.700 White towel to cover fridge x1
0.216 Window sun shade front x1 0.366 Window sun shade rest of windows x1 6.500 Mosquito enclosure x1 1.000 Ground sheet heavy x1 0.626 Ground sheet tent cover light x1 1.088 Tent poles telescopic 0.544 x2 1.900 Tent poles and pegs x2 1.600 Tent ropes & pegs (10 & 10) 0.684 Tent peg hammer x1 1.050 Sand flag x1 0.300 Window sun nets for mosquitoes x4
3.100 Helinox chairs x2 1.210 Stools x2 0.054 Blue & grey seat mats x2 1.054 Table top x1 1.178 Table legs x1 1.010 Metho stove & lighters etc 1.850 Metho 1 litre x2 0.700 Bucket with lid x1
0.806 Sleeping mat blue Thermarest x1 1.110 Sleeping mat brown Thermarest x1 0.400 Sleeping mat 3/4 Thermarest x1 0.278 Sleeping mat grey foam x1 0.286 Sleeping mat blue foam x1 3.000 Sleeping bags x2
0.500 First aid x1 0.256 Tick freeze spray x1 0.300 Braun tooth brush 2xAA x2 2.000 Personal items 1.500 Toilet paper 10 rolls + 3 emergency
0.256 Camera Canon G9X + 2 add batteries x1 0.700 Paper maps Hema / Gregorys x10 3.000 Atlas x2 0.370 GPS + cable + bracket x1 0.200 Mobile x1 0.800 portable radio
0.256 Torch large USB 26650 x1 0.102 Torch medium USB 18650 x1 0.150 Torch head USB 16340 x2 0.032 Torch AAA x2 0.244 AA AAA battery charger 0.384 Clamp meter x1 1.086 Tool box tyre repair x1 0.366 Multi grips x1 0.192 Long nose pliers 0.268 Ratchet 3/8 inch x1 0.320 Wheel leveller x1 1.830 Jack plate x1 0.650 Tie down ratchet heavey duty x1 0.372 Tie down straps 2 metres x2 0.324 Tie down straps 1 metres x2 8.000 Tow ropes + shackles x2 1.368 3/4 inch tee handle x1 0.622 3/4 inch 21mm socket + extension x1 0.260 Builders glovers 2 sets x2 1.000 Boot carpet x1 3.000 Front rubber mats x2 0.238 Fuses box of 150 x150
0.300 12 volt dual outlet + extension x1 1.036 Spanners 6mm to 19mm (set) 0.578 Sockets 13mm - 21mm + extension (set) 0.434 Sockets small (set) 0.216 Screw driver set (set) 0.366 Air filter 0.300 Oil filter
15.000 Clothes for 2 people _3.000 Shoes & sandals 2 people 15.000 Food - cans, dry & cold 15.000 Beer (reduce weight of first item!) (not enough beer!)
548kg
-11.300 Rear seat bases & 3 head rests removed (we turn the car into 2 seats while away)
I know there are still a few thing missing and I am sure people could easily add many items to this list!
An old Boeing 747 is about 1% heavier with all the dirt in the nooks and crannies. So maybe factor in another 1% due to the environment we travel in. So lets say 30kg off you payload!
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Sunday 25th of November 2018 12:58:31 PM
The Belmont Bear said
02:57 PM Nov 25, 2018
FoYuglamron wrote:
Saw someone with a Jeep Cherokee who tows a 3300kg van..... How? Braked it can tow 3500kgs.
200kgs load capacity left. What about all the add ons, bullbar fuel 50 litres at 46kgs,water and all the rest of the stuff including I would assume Two adults. I would imagine two adults at 125 to 150kgs
On the Hume Highway last week heading to Albury and up a gentle rise.Passed by a twin axle van behind a late model Jeep Cherokee, probably doing 90/95. the caravan swaying around like a pendulum.
The whole towing weights thing needs to be looked at.
Just have to Look at the report by Clayton's Towing about their take on Caravan Crashes to see how bad it's getting.
Yes John I agree that this topic has probably been thrashed to death I personally dont need a table and carry out calculations to determine whether my rig is legal or not I use the local weighbridge. As you suggest this comparison is probably food for thought especially for people who are new to caravanning and are considering what they should buy to do the job.
Yuglamron I would suggest that anyone towing 3300kg with a tug that has a rating of 3:5T is going to be sailing close to the wind regardless of the badge that it has on its front. By Jeep Cherokee I guess you mean the Grand Cherokee I tow a 2.8t twin axle with my GC at 100kph and in my experience its normally rock steady. Maybe it was more to do with how they distributed their weight rather than the actual weight itself. We have often seen videos posted on here showing what incorrect weight distribution can do to the stabilty of a trailer, its pretty hard to make a call on the cause of sway just by following someone. My question is if they were doing 90kph when they overtook you on the Hume Hwy (20kph below the speed limit) how fast were you going ? There was a topic posted on here only recently about the risk of being fined for travelling below the speed limit if youre unlucky enough to run into a policeman who considers you to be holding up the normal flow of traffic.
Three decimal points and weighing items down to two AAA batteries, now there is detail!
SouthernComfort said
05:15 PM Nov 25, 2018
Well said BB, on all counts. It puts this in perspective.
Anyone towing 3.3t with ANY 3.5t rated Ute or SUV is asking for it, especially if poorly loaded/balanced. Just because a chassis is rated strong enough to pull 3.5t doesn't mean it's practical. That's what the 4.5t haulers are for (RAM, F250 etc.) if you want to carry reasonable payload as well.
Whenarewethere said
06:58 PM Nov 25, 2018
Or a bus! In Europe a few years ago we watched as the owner with remote control lifted the front end of the bus about half a metre so the back was low enough, then winched his Mini into the back of the bus and then the rear "garage" door electrically closed. He did have to take the mirrors off the Mini as it was a bit too wide.
Three decimal points and weighing items down to two AAA batteries, now there is detail!
Everything on that list up to and including 1kg = 24kgs, up to and including 2kg = 47kg. (clothes & food etc not included). It is surprising what the little things add up to.
Dickodownunder said
08:15 PM Nov 25, 2018
Is it not more simple just to load your choice of vehicle and caravan / camper / whatever you are living in or under, and just go to a weigh bridge and weigh it.
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:34 PM Nov 25, 2018
I recently unloaded the OKA and weighed everything (probably the first time in 14 years). Including fuel, water and people it totalled 1.3T. At that weight we still have about half a ton to spare.
I weigh it fully loaded on a regular basis.
Cheers, Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Sunday 25th of November 2018 08:35:39 PM
Eaglemax said
11:02 PM Nov 25, 2018
Im currently building a lightweight caravan with full ensuite. Its in the reno section.
In relation to this topic, once registered it will have a projected tare of 600-630kg. Atm of 930kg and my car can tow 850kg.
Now, if people watch my car towing a 16' x 7' caravan along the road they might well believe my van weighs about 1600kg.
So, just saying, things arent always as they seem...
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Sunday 25th of November 2018 11:03:46 PM
The Belmont Bear said
11:40 PM Nov 25, 2018
MDickodownunder wrote:
Is it not more simple just to load your choice of vehicle and caravan / camper / whatever you are living in or under, and just go to a weigh bridge and weigh it.
My point exactly Dicko dont worry about the tables, the spreadsheets or whatever else you use to calculate your weights just load up and go to a weighbridge. If youre over take some things out if youre under youre good to go - how hard is it ?
BB
Dougwe said
06:59 AM Nov 26, 2018
I too agree, just go to a weighbridge.
I found out mid 2017 while in Townsville that the TeePee was over it's max so took out things I thought I didn't need (and didn't) then back to the weighbridge. All good the second time. I did however weigh things as I took them out then totalled it all up before the second weigh.
There is a weighbridge in Broadford VIC, on the Hume Hwy north bound just past the Broadford turn off that is open 24/7 and if it is not checking trucks etc you can go in and weigh your rig at no charge. I check every time I am going that way as only takes a couple of minutes. Just make sure you give way to and heavy vehicles that want to check their weights and try not to hold them up too long if you are already on the weighbridge.
I was on there a couple of weeks ago and had moved to the front scale when a truck came in, I quickly took a pic of the digital readout and off I went. I pulled up out of the way to check weights and the bugga had moved onto the back scale and stuffed up my reading so had to do it again. Must have been a happy chappy. NOT.
Dougwe said
07:06 AM Nov 26, 2018
Whenarewethere wrote:
Or a bus! In Europe a few years ago we watched as the owner with remote control lifted the front end of the bus about half a metre so the back was low enough, then winched his Mini into the back of the bus and then the rear "garage" door electrically closed. He did have to take the mirrors off the Mini as it was a bit too wide.
Strewth! I drove coaches that size when semi retired for 6 years and no way to man kind would I want to travel in one for the rest of my driving time while retired. Gee, how much space do you really need anyway Looks good though.
rockylizard said
08:01 AM Nov 26, 2018
The Belmont Bear wrote:
Dickodownunder wrote:
Is it not more simple just to load your choice of vehicle and caravan / camper / whatever you are living in or under, and just go to a weigh bridge and weigh it.
My point exactly Dicko don't worry about the tables, the spreadsheets or whatever else you use to calculate your weights just load up and go to a weighbridge. If you're over take some things out if you're under you're good to go - how hard is it ?
BB
Gday...
You are perfectly correct gentlemen - and but it does not help the purchaser when they are in the car/van yard making buying decisions.
The problem is that many purchasers of vans, and vehicles to tow those vans, are not aware that there are limitations on just what can be actually carried, added to the vehicle and/or towed - and the numbers quoted in those brochures, and nodded to by the eager salesperson, may not be achievable in the actual use the vehicle will be applied to.
Articles such as this, and some of the responses to this thread, are attempting to increase the awareness of the general travelling public that there is a REAL need to be fully aware of just what their vehicle is rated for, and whether that rated capacity is in fact able to be complied with once they begin 'fitting it out'.
It is not fully understood just how easy it is to exceed the rated Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) when adding the niceties, and necessities, in readiness for that big trip.
Similarly, that applies to the van as well. Just because there are some numbers stamped on a compliance plate does not mean these are the be-all and end-all of the process. One needs to load the van and then follow your good advice and head to a weighbridge to confirm what the actual weight of the van will be and that is within the rated capacities stamped on that compliance plate.
It needs to be continually highlighted that the vehicle's stated maximum braked towing capacity does not, in itself, mean what it seems to indicate. What the vehicle's genuine carrying capacity is (usable payload) needs to be understood when applied to the use intended by the vehicle's purchaser.
There are many permutations and calculations that need to be considered before the vehicle's suitability, or indeed its ability, is truly known about its capability of towing a 'heavy' van.
Often, unfortunately, it is only after the vehicle and van have been purchased that the real situation is known - and that is when your advice to head to a weighbridge to confirm the loading outcome is pertinent. A purchaser of vehicle is not able to take it to a weighbridge with all the added kit and fully loaded for the journey while still in the showroom chatting to the eager salesperson. Hence, purchasers need to be educated in looking, and listening, past the smooth words of that eager salesperson and the glossy brochure.
When, and it is only time, authorities begin actually performing random weighing exercises for vehicle/vans as they do for other heavy vehicles, it will not be an acceptable excuse when the GVM has been exceeded to say ".....but I thought it was OK according to the owner's manual - or the compliance plate".
Cheers - safe and happy travelling - John
Dickodownunder said
08:33 AM Nov 26, 2018
An extremely simple solution for a purchaser of a second hand or even a new van is to make it compulsory for any seller be them a dealer or private to issue a current weigh note for the van indicating the TRUE tare weight.
If a prospective buyer is armed with this information he /she may do the simple maths to determine the ACTUAL payload.
If cheating on this point was made an offence then this would be the beginning to correct many of the problems on the van end of the equation.
Vehicles and their specifications become a whole new kettle of fish.
Eliminating false or confusing advertising and over zealous statements with regard to what a vehicle may tow would be a good start.
We all only need to look at the towing weight and towbar specifications of the Nissan Navara and how the allowances change quite significantly when towing different units. This is applicable to some other vehicles as well.
To expect authorities to police this is stretching it when each vehicle and models within models have such a variation.
At the very least without any changes to regulations anyone purchasing a caravan motor home or even a camper should insist on a current weigh note PRIOR to purchase. To extend this to a vehicle would be wise as well particularly if the vehicle is second hand with accessories fitted.
The purchaser must also remove emotion from any prospective acquisition with vehicles and vans and look at the facts.
Look at all specifications and weigh the units...the weights will either be legal or illegal so assess and adjust it from there.
Whenarewethere said
03:03 PM Nov 26, 2018
Dickodownunder wrote:
Is it not more simple just to load your choice of vehicle and caravan / camper / whatever you are living in or under, and just go to a weigh bridge and weigh it.
There are a few advantages of the spreadsheet approach. It took less than a day so it was really not that much effort, kitchen & bathroom scales at the ready. You will end up with a list of every item which could be useful for an insurance claim.
But more so simply going through every item you will probably find a dozen or three items that are simply not needed which you probably had the intention of chucking out but never getting around to it. A spring clean out by default!
Having the numbers in black and white in front of you puts the situation into perspective. Even though I have been careful avoiding packing too much, I was shocked by the numbers and will be doing some culling!
Found 2 more items looking at the photo. Fly swat (0.026) and fan (0.526) were not on my list but they are staying!
In reply to the response What speed was I doing. Actually doing about 75kph.
Reason I came up on a slow moving B Double tanker and I slowed to his speed.
There were aprox. thirty or so cars and faster vehicles most of whom were moving to the outer lane to overtake us.
It was a clearly marked 110kph limit and if I had just pulled out to overtake it would not have been safe. I came up behind the truck doing between 95 and 100kph slowing slightly because of the incline. There were no safe gaps for me to pull out so I drove to the conditions and slowed to the speed of the vehicle in front.
When it was clear for me to overtake I did so.
Baz421 said
04:23 PM Nov 26, 2018
Yuglamron wrote:
In reply to the response What speed was I doing. Actually doing about 75kph.
Reason I came up on a slow moving B Double tanker and I slowed to his speed.
There were aprox. thirty or so cars and faster vehicles most of whom were moving to the outer lane to overtake us.
It was a clearly marked 110kph limit and if I had just pulled out to overtake it would not have been safe. I came up behind the truck doing between 95 and 100kph slowing slightly because of the incline. There were no safe gaps for me to pull out so I drove to the conditions and slowed to the speed of the vehicle in front.
When it was clear for me to overtake I did so.
A lot of misinformation about obstruction due to slow driving,,,, ignorance is bliss. You were totally legal Yuglamron,,,, see road rules below; I QUOTE
1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another
driver or a pedestrian.
Offence provision.
Note Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle see the
definition of drive in the dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the
path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:
(a) the driver is stopped in traffic; or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles
(unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the
circumstances).
Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly
A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road
to which a speed-limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is
no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.
Dickodownunder said
06:12 PM Nov 26, 2018
I have been on here for about 4 years but the last couple of posts would win the off topic award hands down.
The Belmont Bear said
06:34 PM Nov 26, 2018
Baz421,
I see that the road rules you quoted are from the NSW traffic regulations including the example that is given. I totally agree with you that Yuglamon was doing nothing wrong and in this case wouldn't have had a problem. If he had been travelling at 75kph in a 110kph zone and traffic was building up behind him then an over zealous highway patrol officer could interpret the rule a little differently. When terms such as "unreasonably obstruct" & "abnormally slowly in the circumstances" are used what exactly does that mean my view of what's unreasonably obstructing, driving abnormally slowly or even the circumstances that warrant it may be completely different to the next persons. In the example given doing 20kph in an 80kph zone for no real reason was deemed as being unreasonable - so what then is considered to be reasonable - 30,40,50, 60 or does the police officer get to make that call based on how good a day he is having ?
BB
Make that 3 Dicko sorry but I had to respond.
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Monday 26th of November 2018 06:36:05 PM
Gday...
I am aware this subject has been thrashed to death over the past years on this and other forums, but it doesn't hurt to revisit these sorts of articles or, for any newbies, to get some food for thought.
Read the article here
Cheers - John
Saw someone with a Jeep Cherokee who tows a 3300kg van..... How? Braked it can tow 3500kgs.
200kgs load capacity left. What about all the add ons, bullbar fuel 50 litres at 46kgs,water and all the rest of the stuff including I would assume Two adults. I would imagine two adults at 125 to 150kgs
On the Hume Highway last week heading to Albury and up a gentle rise.Passed by a twin axle van behind a late model Jeep Cherokee, probably doing 90/95. the caravan swaying around like a pendulum.
The whole towing weights thing needs to be looked at.
Just have to Look at the report by Clayton's Towing about their take on Caravan Crashes to see how bad it's getting.
https://claytonstowing.com.au/caravan-crashes/
-- Edited by Yuglamron on Sunday 25th of November 2018 01:38:15 PM
Be very careful of what you add. It adds up extremely quickly and you have no capacity for critical items!
We don't have a tow bar which weigh a far bit themselves, bull bar, draw system, tool box, aerials, driving lights, winch, under body protection, roof platform (did have one, got rid of it to save weight), boat, outboard, or kayak, life vests, fishing equipment, UHF radio (looking at getting one), BBQ & cleaning equipment (boil only & buy fried food when in town). We only have a tiny fridge and small battery. Our wheels are small at 255/60 R18 30kg each.
Items added to our car:
145.000 People (one has to reduce a bit!) x2
12.000 Roof rack rails & 1 pair cross bars x1
_3.600 Second pair cross bars x1
_4.000 Solar panel & tyre bracket x1
30.000 Wheel second spare x1
_4.600 Fuel rack aluminium x1
36.000 Fuel tanks 10 litres x4
_3.000 Fuel rack aluminium small x1
_9.000 Fuel tanks 5 litres x2
_0.080 Fuel tank nozzle x2
15.200 Solar panels x1
12.000 Sand tracks x4
12.000 Awning x1
20.972 Water container 10 litre 0.486 x2
42.656 Water container 5 litre 0.332 x8
_3.414 Water container 1 litre 0.138 x3
_1.000 Thermos flask x1
_3.700 Fire extinguishers 1kg x2
_0.300 Hi vis vests x2
16.000 Compressor 4.5kg x3
_1.350 Air tank 4 litres x1
_0.636 Air dryer x1
_0.388 Pressure gauge x1
_0.084 Pressure gauge electronic x2
_0.132 Fitting x1
_0.556 Air hose 6 metre ARB orange x1
_0.426 Air hose 2 metre blue x1
_0.362 Air hose 1.5 metre blue x1
_0.264 Air hose 0.8 metre blue x1
_0.106 Air duster cleaner x1
_2.100 Jumper leads 175 anderson to clamp x1
_3.900 Jumper leads 300 amp continuous x1
29.000 Battery 26ah 8.35kg + brackets x3
_1.000 MPPT x1
_1.490 6awg 4m 50ah anderson x1
_0.954 8awg 4m 50ah anderson x1
_0.254 12awg 2.2m anderson x1
_0.342 12awg 2m 50/35 ah anderson x1
_0.282 12awg 35ah fridge lead 1
_0.112 Fridge power lead x1
_0.210 Fridge 240 volt lead x1
15.000 Fridge 28 litres inc. extra insulation x1
_0.100 12 volt lead 1m x3
_0.700 White towel to cover fridge x1
0.216 Window sun shade front x1
0.366 Window sun shade rest of windows x1
6.500 Mosquito enclosure x1
1.000 Ground sheet heavy x1
0.626 Ground sheet tent cover light x1
1.088 Tent poles telescopic 0.544 x2
1.900 Tent poles and pegs x2
1.600 Tent ropes & pegs (10 & 10)
0.684 Tent peg hammer x1
1.050 Sand flag x1
0.300 Window sun nets for mosquitoes x4
3.100 Helinox chairs x2
1.210 Stools x2
0.054 Blue & grey seat mats x2
1.054 Table top x1
1.178 Table legs x1
1.010 Metho stove & lighters etc
1.850 Metho 1 litre x2
0.700 Bucket with lid x1
0.806 Sleeping mat blue Thermarest x1
1.110 Sleeping mat brown Thermarest x1
0.400 Sleeping mat 3/4 Thermarest x1
0.278 Sleeping mat grey foam x1
0.286 Sleeping mat blue foam x1
3.000 Sleeping bags x2
0.500 First aid x1
0.256 Tick freeze spray x1
0.300 Braun tooth brush 2xAA x2
2.000 Personal items
1.500 Toilet paper 10 rolls + 3 emergency
0.256 Camera Canon G9X + 2 add batteries x1
0.700 Paper maps Hema / Gregorys x10
3.000 Atlas x2
0.370 GPS + cable + bracket x1
0.200 Mobile x1
0.800 portable radio
0.256 Torch large USB 26650 x1
0.102 Torch medium USB 18650 x1
0.150 Torch head USB 16340 x2
0.032 Torch AAA x2
0.244 AA AAA battery charger
0.384 Clamp meter x1
1.086 Tool box tyre repair x1
0.366 Multi grips x1
0.192 Long nose pliers
0.268 Ratchet 3/8 inch x1
0.320 Wheel leveller x1
1.830 Jack plate x1
0.650 Tie down ratchet heavey duty x1
0.372 Tie down straps 2 metres x2
0.324 Tie down straps 1 metres x2
8.000 Tow ropes + shackles x2
1.368 3/4 inch tee handle x1
0.622 3/4 inch 21mm socket + extension x1
0.260 Builders glovers 2 sets x2
1.000 Boot carpet x1
3.000 Front rubber mats x2
0.238 Fuses box of 150 x150
0.300 12 volt dual outlet + extension x1
1.036 Spanners 6mm to 19mm (set)
0.578 Sockets 13mm - 21mm + extension (set)
0.434 Sockets small (set)
0.216 Screw driver set (set)
0.366 Air filter
0.300 Oil filter
15.000 Clothes for 2 people
_3.000 Shoes & sandals 2 people
15.000 Food - cans, dry & cold
15.000 Beer (reduce weight of first item!) (not enough beer!)
548kg
-11.300 Rear seat bases & 3 head rests removed (we turn the car into 2 seats while away)
I know there are still a few thing missing and I am sure people could easily add many items to this list!
An old Boeing 747 is about 1% heavier with all the dirt in the nooks and crannies. So maybe factor in another 1% due to the environment we travel in. So lets say 30kg off you payload!
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Sunday 25th of November 2018 12:58:31 PM
Yes John I agree that this topic has probably been thrashed to death I personally dont need a table and carry out calculations to determine whether my rig is legal or not I use the local weighbridge. As you suggest this comparison is probably food for thought especially for people who are new to caravanning and are considering what they should buy to do the job.
Yuglamron I would suggest that anyone towing 3300kg with a tug that has a rating of 3:5T is going to be sailing close to the wind regardless of the badge that it has on its front. By Jeep Cherokee I guess you mean the Grand Cherokee I tow a 2.8t twin axle with my GC at 100kph and in my experience its normally rock steady. Maybe it was more to do with how they distributed their weight rather than the actual weight itself. We have often seen videos posted on here showing what incorrect weight distribution can do to the stabilty of a trailer, its pretty hard to make a call on the cause of sway just by following someone. My question is if they were doing 90kph when they overtook you on the Hume Hwy (20kph below the speed limit) how fast were you going ? There was a topic posted on here only recently about the risk of being fined for travelling below the speed limit if youre unlucky enough to run into a policeman who considers you to be holding up the normal flow of traffic.
Cheers
BB
There are some top heavy cars out there!
Anyone towing 3.3t with ANY 3.5t rated Ute or SUV is asking for it, especially if poorly loaded/balanced. Just because a chassis is rated strong enough to pull 3.5t doesn't mean it's practical. That's what the 4.5t haulers are for (RAM, F250 etc.) if you want to carry reasonable payload as well.
Or a bus! In Europe a few years ago we watched as the owner with remote control lifted the front end of the bus about half a metre so the back was low enough, then winched his Mini into the back of the bus and then the rear "garage" door electrically closed. He did have to take the mirrors off the Mini as it was a bit too wide.
hi John,
There is some great info in this pic....
Everything on that list up to and including 1kg = 24kgs, up to and including 2kg = 47kg. (clothes & food etc not included). It is surprising what the little things add up to.
I recently unloaded the OKA and weighed everything (probably the first time in 14 years).
Including fuel, water and people it totalled 1.3T.
At that weight we still have about half a ton to spare.
I weigh it fully loaded on a regular basis.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Sunday 25th of November 2018 08:35:39 PM
Im currently building a lightweight caravan with full ensuite. Its in the reno section.
In relation to this topic, once registered it will have a projected tare of 600-630kg. Atm of 930kg and my car can tow 850kg.
Now, if people watch my car towing a 16' x 7' caravan along the road they might well believe my van weighs about 1600kg.
So, just saying, things arent always as they seem...
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Sunday 25th of November 2018 11:03:46 PM
My point exactly Dicko dont worry about the tables, the spreadsheets or whatever else you use to calculate your weights just load up and go to a weighbridge. If youre over take some things out if youre under youre good to go - how hard is it ?
BB
I found out mid 2017 while in Townsville that the TeePee was over it's max so took out things I thought I didn't need (and didn't) then back to the weighbridge. All good the second time. I did however weigh things as I took them out then totalled it all up before the second weigh.
There is a weighbridge in Broadford VIC, on the Hume Hwy north bound just past the Broadford turn off that is open 24/7 and if it is not checking trucks etc you can go in and weigh your rig at no charge. I check every time I am going that way as only takes a couple of minutes. Just make sure you give way to and heavy vehicles that want to check their weights and try not to hold them up too long if you are already on the weighbridge.
I was on there a couple of weeks ago and had moved to the front scale when a truck came in, I quickly took a pic of the digital readout and off I went. I pulled up out of the way to check weights and the bugga had moved onto the back scale and stuffed up my reading so had to do it again. Must have been a happy chappy. NOT.
Strewth! I drove coaches that size when semi retired for 6 years and no way to man kind would I want to travel in one for the rest of my driving time while retired. Gee, how much space do you really need anyway
Looks good though.
Gday...
You are perfectly correct gentlemen - and but it does not help the purchaser when they are in the car/van yard making buying decisions.
The problem is that many purchasers of vans, and vehicles to tow those vans, are not aware that there are limitations on just what can be actually carried, added to the vehicle and/or towed - and the numbers quoted in those brochures, and nodded to by the eager salesperson, may not be achievable in the actual use the vehicle will be applied to.
Articles such as this, and some of the responses to this thread, are attempting to increase the awareness of the general travelling public that there is a REAL need to be fully aware of just what their vehicle is rated for, and whether that rated capacity is in fact able to be complied with once they begin 'fitting it out'.
It is not fully understood just how easy it is to exceed the rated Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) when adding the niceties, and necessities, in readiness for that big trip.
Similarly, that applies to the van as well. Just because there are some numbers stamped on a compliance plate does not mean these are the be-all and end-all of the process. One needs to load the van and then follow your good advice and head to a weighbridge to confirm what the actual weight of the van will be and that is within the rated capacities stamped on that compliance plate.
It needs to be continually highlighted that the vehicle's stated maximum braked towing capacity does not, in itself, mean what it seems to indicate. What the vehicle's genuine carrying capacity is (usable payload) needs to be understood when applied to the use intended by the vehicle's purchaser.
There are many permutations and calculations that need to be considered before the vehicle's suitability, or indeed its ability, is truly known about its capability of towing a 'heavy' van.
Often, unfortunately, it is only after the vehicle and van have been purchased that the real situation is known - and that is when your advice to head to a weighbridge to confirm the loading outcome is pertinent. A purchaser of vehicle is not able to take it to a weighbridge with all the added kit and fully loaded for the journey while still in the showroom chatting to the eager salesperson. Hence, purchasers need to be educated in looking, and listening, past the smooth words of that eager salesperson and the glossy brochure.
When, and it is only time, authorities begin actually performing random weighing exercises for vehicle/vans as they do for other heavy vehicles, it will not be an acceptable excuse when the GVM has been exceeded to say ".....but I thought it was OK according to the owner's manual - or the compliance plate".
Cheers - safe and happy travelling - John
If a prospective buyer is armed with this information he /she may do the simple maths to determine the ACTUAL payload.
If cheating on this point was made an offence then this would be the beginning to correct many of the problems on the van end of the equation.
Vehicles and their specifications become a whole new kettle of fish.
Eliminating false or confusing advertising and over zealous statements with regard to what a vehicle may tow would be a good start.
We all only need to look at the towing weight and towbar specifications of the Nissan Navara and how the allowances change quite significantly when towing different units. This is applicable to some other vehicles as well.
To expect authorities to police this is stretching it when each vehicle and models within models have such a variation.
At the very least without any changes to regulations anyone purchasing a caravan motor home or even a camper should insist on a current weigh note PRIOR to purchase. To extend this to a vehicle would be wise as well particularly if the vehicle is second hand with accessories fitted.
The purchaser must also remove emotion from any prospective acquisition with vehicles and vans and look at the facts.
Look at all specifications and weigh the units...the weights will either be legal or illegal so assess and adjust it from there.
There are a few advantages of the spreadsheet approach. It took less than a day so it was really not that much effort, kitchen & bathroom scales at the ready. You will end up with a list of every item which could be useful for an insurance claim.
But more so simply going through every item you will probably find a dozen or three items that are simply not needed which you probably had the intention of chucking out but never getting around to it. A spring clean out by default!
Having the numbers in black and white in front of you puts the situation into perspective. Even though I have been careful avoiding packing too much, I was shocked by the numbers and will be doing some culling!
Found 2 more items looking at the photo. Fly swat (0.026) and fan (0.526) were not on my list but they are staying!
In reply to the response What speed was I doing. Actually doing about 75kph.
Reason I came up on a slow moving B Double tanker and I slowed to his speed.
There were aprox. thirty or so cars and faster vehicles most of whom were moving to the outer lane to overtake us.
It was a clearly marked 110kph limit and if I had just pulled out to overtake it would not have been safe. I came up behind the truck doing between 95 and 100kph slowing slightly because of the incline. There were no safe gaps for me to pull out so I drove to the conditions and slowed to the speed of the vehicle in front.
When it was clear for me to overtake I did so.
A lot of misinformation about obstruction due to slow driving,,,, ignorance is bliss. You were totally legal Yuglamron,,,, see road rules below; I QUOTE
1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another
driver or a pedestrian.
Offence provision.
Note Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle see the
definition of drive in the dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the
path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:
(a) the driver is stopped in traffic; or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles
(unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the
circumstances).
Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly
A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road
to which a speed-limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is
no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.
I have been on here for about 4 years but the last couple of posts would win the off topic award hands down.
Baz421,
I see that the road rules you quoted are from the NSW traffic regulations including the example that is given. I totally agree with you that Yuglamon was doing nothing wrong and in this case wouldn't have had a problem. If he had been travelling at 75kph in a 110kph zone and traffic was building up behind him then an over zealous highway patrol officer could interpret the rule a little differently. When terms such as "unreasonably obstruct" & "abnormally slowly in the circumstances" are used what exactly does that mean my view of what's unreasonably obstructing, driving abnormally slowly or even the circumstances that warrant it may be completely different to the next persons. In the example given doing 20kph in an 80kph zone for no real reason was deemed as being unreasonable - so what then is considered to be reasonable - 30,40,50, 60 or does the police officer get to make that call based on how good a day he is having ?
BB
Make that 3 Dicko sorry but I had to respond.
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Monday 26th of November 2018 06:36:05 PM