Full court decision. The caravan parks association beats the Rocky council again.
Whenarewethere said
08:22 AM Nov 18, 2018
The message needs to get out for everyone to avoid Rockhampton, it's only one place in Australia. It will send a message to other towns.
montie said
08:37 AM Nov 18, 2018
Whenarewethere wrote:
The message needs to get out for everyone to avoid Rockhampton, it's only one place in Australia. It will send a message to other towns.
Why would you do that?
Rockhampton CC just spent $000's of dollars in court trying to keep their free camping facility for you.
Unfortunately under Environment and Planning laws the site was non compliant.
Whenarewethere said
10:14 AM Nov 18, 2018
I was lazy and didn't read the full article and thought free camping was going to stop.
Kebbin said
11:14 AM Nov 18, 2018
Unfortunate but I see the CMCA had some sort of involvement as mentioned in closing statements, I can see Rocky Council gifting land for their use.
What really peeves me is Self Righteous Free Campers blurting about bans and bypasses, Wiki Camps have gone off again with their ignorant blame game.
Whenarewethere said
11:30 AM Nov 18, 2018
We cannot stay in RV areas as we are not self contained so have no choice but to avoid towns anyway. We don't need external power, water, electricity or wifi & are not prepared to pay excessive rates when sleeping in the car. Try to look for toilets otherwise it is further out of towns and walk an additional 100 metres with a shovel!
Kebbin said
11:53 AM Nov 18, 2018
So Jonathon why call for Rocky to be avoided? Do you often demonise a place you don't use anyway? This is a problem we have when not caring or thinking about our actions.
Whenarewethere said
12:07 PM Nov 18, 2018
I was lazy and hadn't read the article.
montie said
12:09 PM Nov 18, 2018
Unfortunately, free camps in urban areas will now have to adhere to the same compliancing standards as caravan parks in my opinion. Rockhampton is just the beginning.
In rural areas compliancing requirements are not as stringent.
Tony Bev said
01:13 PM Nov 18, 2018
Thanks for the links, Mike and Peter D, they were appreciated
I went through Rockhampton around 2005, in a car, while staying in motels
As I live on the west coast, and may or may not visit Rockhampton again, it is probably something that does not concern me a great deal
But on the other hand
If I do go to Rockhampton, I shall not be staying in caravan parks, as I am self contained
No free camp, (to me), probably means that I shall be spending my money elsewhere
It is a sobering thought which Montie has picked up on, about the possibility of other free camps in the large town urban areas, being closed down
If this is the thin edge of the wedge, I do remember (Tasmania, I think), where they were forced to close free camps, and we start losing free camp sites
It may pay all of us to be a bit more diligent, in the free/donation/low cost camps we use, and clean up after ourselves, and spend money in that area
Hope that I am not preaching to the choir, but in my opinion, we should give some incentive to small towns, to keep their camps open
Whenarewethere said
01:44 PM Nov 18, 2018
Tony Bev wrote:
It may pay all of us to be a bit more diligent, in the free/donation/low cost camps we use, and clean up after ourselves, and spend money in that area Hope that I am not preaching to the choir, but in my opinion, we should give some incentive to small towns, to keep their camps open
Last year while in Deep Creek NP during miserable weather we spent a few hours collecting all the rubbish except toilet paper around the entire camping areas.
But we collect a bag of rubbish twice a week from a small stretch of Sydney foreshore, the level of rubbish has been steadily getting worse over the decades!
Desert Dweller said
03:59 PM Nov 18, 2018
Not a lot of free camping spots near Rockhampton.
None on the nearby Capricorn Coast between Yepoon & Emu Park.
Plenty of shire enforcement officers around catching stealthy over night stayers, parked in foreshore car parks, mostly in motor homes.
We stayed in a caravan park at Kinka Beach for 2 months last winter.
brickies said
07:17 PM Nov 18, 2018
This court case has now set a President for the whole of Queensland .
Desert Dweller said
07:29 PM Nov 18, 2018
brickies wrote:
This court case has now set a President for the whole of Queensland .
Is that the President of the USA Donald Trump?
He's got more on his plate than free camping issues in Rocky.
montie said
08:12 PM Nov 18, 2018
brickies wrote:
This court case has now set a President for the whole of Queensland .
Brickies,
You are right....a precedent has now been set for urban area free camping and going forward, in my opinion, we will see more urban free camps closing.
The cost of compliancing cannot possibly make them "free" or low cost. On the other hand rural townships and areas where stringent planning requirements of cities do not apply will still continue to offer low cost or free camping on condition that the privilege is respected and not abused.
That will eventually come down to the user.
PeterInSa said
08:44 PM Nov 18, 2018
To me, Rockhampton Council, tried to keep KG open so that the RV's could support their shops and keep them open.
The greedy caravan park operators think they own the people who travel in RV`s, I would like the hotels and motels launch a case against the caravan parks for installing units and taking their trade away.
The council should not approve any more cabins on caravan parks.
JayDee said
08:30 AM Nov 19, 2018
Approx. 7-8 years ago I sent a letter to the Mayors of all the major cities and towns along the east coast of Queensland. In the letter I went to lengths to give my view on the old S.W.O.T analysis.
""That the Caravan Park owners, not only around Queensland, never approached any of the local hotels and motels owners and ask them if they would be upset if we take away a percentage of their revenue and income by installing cabins in their Caravan Parks.""
As my caravaning days are in the twilight years, I do feel for the thousand of current and of course the many thousand of new caravan owners who wish to enjoy the lifestyle of freedom camping and the revenue it will offer to the local communities.
Here is a good point.
We prefer to go the local show grounds and support the shire which provides us with the facility and thus spend the dollars in their region.
And you are not always packed in like the old sardine can.
Jay&Dee
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Monday 19th of November 2018 08:32:30 AM
Desert Dweller said
08:49 AM Nov 19, 2018
The old caravan parks installing cabins stealing hotel/motel business thing has been done to death.
They attract entirely different types of travelers in our opinion.
If we feel lazy we stay in a hotel/motel & dine out in the lounge or restaurant.
If we feel like cooking our own meals we stay in a cabin.
The two alternatives are like comparing chalk & cheese.
There's room for everyone. CP owners aren't the enemy.
Not everything in life comes for FREE.
montie said
08:59 AM Nov 19, 2018
JayDee wrote:
Approx. 7-8 years ago I sent a letter to the Mayors of all the major cities and towns along the east coast of Queensland. In the letter I went to lengths to give my view on the old S.W.O.T analysis.
""That the Caravan Park owners, not only around Queensland, never approached any of the local hotels and motels owners and ask them if they would be upset if we take away a percentage of their revenue and income by installing cabins in their Caravan Parks.""
As my caravaning days are in the twilight years, I do feel for the thousand of current and of course the many thousand of new caravan owners who wish to enjoy the lifestyle of freedom camping and the revenue it will offer to the local communities.
Here is a good point.
We prefer to go the local show grounds and support the shire which provides us with the facility and thus spend the dollars in their region.
And you are not always packed in like the old sardine can.
Jay&Dee
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Monday 19th of November 2018 08:32:30 AM
As a dealer I'm all in favour of free or low cost camping wherever possible.
However, in providing this service in urban cities you cannot simply ignore the regulations that must be complied with by all participants. If the local caravan park is required to spend $000's annually to be compliant and pay rates and taxes to the Council, then that same Council must adhere to it's own regulations and not expect ratepayers to contribute.
I just don't know how we can get around this issue to continue offering free or low cost camping in urban areas.
brickies said
09:49 AM Nov 20, 2018
Also why should local ratepayer have use their rate money to provide free camp for us , Lots of people spend some money in these towns , But no benifit to locals who pay the rates .
rockylizard said
10:48 AM Nov 20, 2018
montie wrote:
As a dealer I'm all in favour of free or low cost camping wherever possible.
~~~SNIP
I just don't know how we can get around this issue to continue offering free or low cost camping in urban areas.
Gday...
I understand and agree with your sentiment, montie. However, in many ways why should travelling folk 'expect' towns to provide (or communities be "required" to provide) free (low-cost) areas where folk can 'camp' - ie stay for at least one night.
If this is so that travellers will park at the provided space and then spend their money in the town - eg groceries, fuel, haircut etc then why does it need to be a place to 'camp' when the municipality can (and often does) provide RV parking close to such facilities.
If folk want to spend a day or two in a town to visit or view local attractions (or medical appointments which may take a day or two or organise/follow-up) then folk can easily stay in a van park and enjoy the provided 'luxuries' of power/water/amenities. This would be rather than spending their time crammed into a dusty/muddy/grassless plot with no amenities or facilities. OH - I forgot ... it is 'free'.
I think the problem, and this is rife in almost all the towns up and down the east coast from SE NSW to FNQ, unless the area provided is able to cope with dozens of RVs discharging their water etc in the confined area, then the councils and locals (including van parks) all lose their tolerance of the travellers - particularly backpackers who are far from 'self-contained' in any definition of the word.
I think some of the problem could be alleviated by education of the travelling public that 'camping' in urban areas in largish towns is not in the interest of anyone and that a night or two in a van park when in these towns is not unaffordable - particularly when the next 'X' number of nights will be spent away from the largish town/s 'free' camping on quite probably much more aesthetic surroundings.
As you indicate - a difficult problem that doesn't have obvious answers.
Jest sayin'
Cheers - happy travelling - John
diggerop said
10:53 AM Nov 20, 2018
But then I go to somewhere that I don't pay rates and use their free camp and maybe spend a few dollars in their town. Same as roads, if we only travelled on roads that we paid rates on we probably wouldn't need a caravan.
Tony Bev said
01:07 PM Nov 20, 2018
I will point out, that I have no axe to grind, and have nothing against any person in any built up urban area
No free camp for me, means no incentive to spend my money in that town/area, while travelling
The town of Broken Hill comes to mind (no disrespect for this town is intended) When I last passed through, there was no free/donation/low cost camp, that I knew of, and I spent no money, otherwise I would have no need to spend money at Little Topar
Little Topar, about 70 odd kilometres further up the highway, supplies a free camp There is nothing at Little Topar except, one toilet in the free camp, and a very small servo/café/tavern
I purchased fuel at about 10 cpl more than I probably could have obtained at Broken Hill I purchased 2 x steak burgers with chips, and 2 x coffee, at I assume higher prices than Broken Hill I also gladly cleaned up the camp area, and in front of the servo/café/tavern
I did the above, in appreciation that someone had supplied me with a free camp, and hopefully the profit from my spending, will give incentive to keep the free camp open
I also agree, that a precedent has now been set, in Queensland, in regards to closing the free camps, especially as the council, has to pay the bulk of the legal cost I also do not know the answer, on how to stop the free camps closing
TheHeaths said
01:17 PM Nov 20, 2018
From my perspective, what I see happening is this.
1) Hotel/Motel must meet certain regulations to provide accommodation, and be compliant with that. That protects the travellers using those facilities and comes at a cost to the hotel/motel and the users.
2) Caravan Parks must meet certain regulations to provide accommodation, including cabins, and must be compliant. That protects the travellers and comes at a cost to the caravan park and the users.
3) All the court has done is said is that the council and other free/low cost camp providers must meet certain regulations and must be compliant. That protects the travellers and will now possibly come at a cost to the provider and the users.
That makes it truly a "level playing field" for the hotel/motel, caravan park and free/low cost camp.
Why can't we just be happy that we have all sorts of faciliteis to use, and are free to travel when and where we like in this country.
brickies said
01:54 PM Nov 20, 2018
It will come to and it already has if you want to stay in a large town or city you stay in a caravan park or showgrounds , If you want to free camp you can do so at aproved rest areas or small towns , If you pay more for your fuel in a small town and buy Buggers and coffee you could pay for a caravan park and make your , Just because you buy something in a town doesn't give you the right to be provided camping for free, If you can't afford to pay you way stay home .
Desert Dweller said
04:59 AM Nov 21, 2018
The old we spend a few dollars in your town so we wanna' camp for free in it ethic is such a misnomer.
Cities like Rockhampton rely on the cattle & mining industry etc. not pensioner handouts.
navynurse said
09:22 AM Nov 21, 2018
Rockhampton has a second free camp at the woolwash on the old hiway outside of town on the south. Quiet roomy and flat fishing is allowed.
I have heard that free camping, is going to stop, at Kershaw Gardens Rockhampton, in February 2019
I am unable to supply a link, as it is paid subscriptions, for this story
If anyone has free link to this story, to confirm it, can they please post it
Or perhaps copy and paste the article
Unfortunately it's correct and may provide an incentive for them to try and close other sites?
https://www.australiancaravanclub.com.au/news-and-newsletters-mainmenu-62/latest-news-mainmenu-70/2116-court-rules-against-kershaw-gardens-rockhampton-as-an-overnight-stop-for-rv-travellers
https://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/news/caravan-association-still-fighting-council-over-ke/3327520/
Full court decision. The caravan parks association beats the Rocky council again.
The message needs to get out for everyone to avoid Rockhampton, it's only one place in Australia. It will send a message to other towns.
Why would you do that?
Rockhampton CC just spent $000's of dollars in court trying to keep their free camping facility for you.
Unfortunately under Environment and Planning laws the site was non compliant.
I was lazy and didn't read the full article and thought free camping was going to stop.
What really peeves me is Self Righteous Free Campers blurting about bans and bypasses, Wiki Camps have gone off again with their ignorant blame game.
We cannot stay in RV areas as we are not self contained so have no choice but to avoid towns anyway. We don't need external power, water, electricity or wifi & are not prepared to pay excessive rates when sleeping in the car. Try to look for toilets otherwise it is further out of towns and walk an additional 100 metres with a shovel!
I was lazy and hadn't read the article.
In rural areas compliancing requirements are not as stringent.
I went through Rockhampton around 2005, in a car, while staying in motels
As I live on the west coast, and may or may not visit Rockhampton again, it is probably something that does not concern me a great deal
But on the other hand
If I do go to Rockhampton, I shall not be staying in caravan parks, as I am self contained
No free camp, (to me), probably means that I shall be spending my money elsewhere
It is a sobering thought which Montie has picked up on, about the possibility of other free camps in the large town urban areas, being closed down
If this is the thin edge of the wedge, I do remember (Tasmania, I think), where they were forced to close free camps, and we start losing free camp sites
It may pay all of us to be a bit more diligent, in the free/donation/low cost camps we use, and clean up after ourselves, and spend money in that area
Hope that I am not preaching to the choir, but in my opinion, we should give some incentive to small towns, to keep their camps open
Last year while in Deep Creek NP during miserable weather we spent a few hours collecting all the rubbish except toilet paper around the entire camping areas.
But we collect a bag of rubbish twice a week from a small stretch of Sydney foreshore, the level of rubbish has been steadily getting worse over the decades!
None on the nearby Capricorn Coast between Yepoon & Emu Park.
Plenty of shire enforcement officers around catching stealthy over night stayers, parked in foreshore car parks, mostly in motor homes.
We stayed in a caravan park at Kinka Beach for 2 months last winter.
Is that the President of the USA Donald Trump?
He's got more on his plate than free camping issues in Rocky.
Brickies,
You are right....a precedent has now been set for urban area free camping and going forward, in my opinion, we will see more urban free camps closing.
The cost of compliancing cannot possibly make them "free" or low cost. On the other hand rural townships and areas where stringent planning requirements of cities do not apply will still continue to offer low cost or free camping on condition that the privilege is respected and not abused.
That will eventually come down to the user.
www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-18/retail-in-regional-cities-struggling-fighting-back/10503598
The greedy caravan park operators think they own the people who travel in RV`s, I would like the hotels and motels launch a case against the caravan parks for installing units and taking their trade away.
The council should not approve any more cabins on caravan parks.
Approx. 7-8 years ago I sent a letter to the Mayors of all the major cities and towns along the east coast of Queensland. In the letter I went to lengths to give my view on the old S.W.O.T analysis.
S.W.O.T. = Strengths .. Weakness .... Opportunity.... Threats.
The major point was, as has been reported here,:-
""That the Caravan Park owners, not only around Queensland, never approached any of the local hotels and motels owners and ask them if they would be upset if we take away a percentage of their revenue and income by installing cabins in their Caravan Parks.""
As my caravaning days are in the twilight years, I do feel for the thousand of current and of course the many thousand of new caravan owners who wish to enjoy the lifestyle of freedom camping and the revenue it will offer to the local communities.
Here is a good point.
We prefer to go the local show grounds and support the shire which provides us with the facility and thus spend the dollars in their region.
And you are not always packed in like the old sardine can.
Jay&Dee
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Monday 19th of November 2018 08:32:30 AM
They attract entirely different types of travelers in our opinion.
If we feel lazy we stay in a hotel/motel & dine out in the lounge or restaurant.
If we feel like cooking our own meals we stay in a cabin.
The two alternatives are like comparing chalk & cheese.
There's room for everyone. CP owners aren't the enemy.
Not everything in life comes for FREE.
As a dealer I'm all in favour of free or low cost camping wherever possible.
However, in providing this service in urban cities you cannot simply ignore the regulations that must be complied with by all participants. If the local caravan park is required to spend $000's annually to be compliant and pay rates and taxes to the Council, then that same Council must adhere to it's own regulations and not expect ratepayers to contribute.
I just don't know how we can get around this issue to continue offering free or low cost camping in urban areas.
Gday...
I understand and agree with your sentiment, montie. However, in many ways why should travelling folk 'expect' towns to provide (or communities be "required" to provide) free (low-cost) areas where folk can 'camp' - ie stay for at least one night.
If this is so that travellers will park at the provided space and then spend their money in the town - eg groceries, fuel, haircut etc then why does it need to be a place to 'camp' when the municipality can (and often does) provide RV parking close to such facilities.
If folk want to spend a day or two in a town to visit or view local attractions (or medical appointments which may take a day or two or organise/follow-up) then folk can easily stay in a van park and enjoy the provided 'luxuries' of power/water/amenities. This would be rather than spending their time crammed into a dusty/muddy/grassless plot with no amenities or facilities. OH - I forgot ... it is 'free'.
I think the problem, and this is rife in almost all the towns up and down the east coast from SE NSW to FNQ, unless the area provided is able to cope with dozens of RVs discharging their water etc in the confined area, then the councils and locals (including van parks) all lose their tolerance of the travellers - particularly backpackers who are far from 'self-contained' in any definition of the word.
I think some of the problem could be alleviated by education of the travelling public that 'camping' in urban areas in largish towns is not in the interest of anyone and that a night or two in a van park when in these towns is not unaffordable - particularly when the next 'X' number of nights will be spent away from the largish town/s 'free' camping on quite probably much more aesthetic surroundings.
As you indicate - a difficult problem that doesn't have obvious answers.
Jest sayin'
Cheers - happy travelling - John
I will point out, that I have no axe to grind, and have nothing against any person in any built up urban area
No free camp for me, means no incentive to spend my money in that town/area, while travelling
The town of Broken Hill comes to mind (no disrespect for this town is intended)
When I last passed through, there was no free/donation/low cost camp, that I knew of, and I spent no money, otherwise I would have no need to spend money at Little Topar
Little Topar, about 70 odd kilometres further up the highway, supplies a free camp
There is nothing at Little Topar except, one toilet in the free camp, and a very small servo/café/tavern
I purchased fuel at about 10 cpl more than I probably could have obtained at Broken Hill
I purchased 2 x steak burgers with chips, and 2 x coffee, at I assume higher prices than Broken Hill
I also gladly cleaned up the camp area, and in front of the servo/café/tavern
I did the above, in appreciation that someone had supplied me with a free camp, and hopefully the profit from my spending, will give incentive to keep the free camp open
I also agree, that a precedent has now been set, in Queensland, in regards to closing the free camps, especially as the council, has to pay the bulk of the legal cost
I also do not know the answer, on how to stop the free camps closing
1) Hotel/Motel must meet certain regulations to provide accommodation, and be compliant with that. That protects the travellers using those facilities and comes at a cost to the hotel/motel and the users.
2) Caravan Parks must meet certain regulations to provide accommodation, including cabins, and must be compliant. That protects the travellers and comes at a cost to the caravan park and the users.
3) All the court has done is said is that the council and other free/low cost camp providers must meet certain regulations and must be compliant. That protects the travellers and will now possibly come at a cost to the provider and the users.
That makes it truly a "level playing field" for the hotel/motel, caravan park and free/low cost camp.
Why can't we just be happy that we have all sorts of faciliteis to use, and are free to travel when and where we like in this country.
The old we spend a few dollars in your town so we wanna' camp for free in it ethic is such a misnomer.
Cities like Rockhampton rely on the cattle & mining industry etc. not pensioner handouts.
Allan