Got an email yesterday from another forum , prompting me to email the owners of a park in WA voicing concerns over the fact that they were prompting the local council to prosecute a traveller that was fined $100 for pulling over and taking a nap from driving fatigue. The charge was it was a no camping area . There has to be some sort of line in the sand for sure but who would be responsible if he drove on and killed someone or them self. The caravan park should be accorded no voice what so ever in ruling on this.
Yuglamron said
09:01 AM Sep 29, 2018
Agree Totally, It needs the question asked about BIAS towards Businesses from the Council. The council is there to run things for the People not business's alone.
It's like the Warnambool Council in Vic. who own and operate multiple Holiday Parks in the town. How can they legislate if they have a pecuniary interest in those businesses. Councils are run so often to benefit Business to the detriment of their taxpayers.
Needs a culture change.
I drive a MH weighs in the region of 8.5 tons.
The damage it would do if I fell asleep at the wheel doesn't bear thinking about.
No-one should have the right to stop someone taking a fatigue break let alone a council sticking their nose in.
Santa said
09:11 AM Sep 29, 2018
Pretty straight forward solution, don't stealth camp within township area's, and, if you do, don't whinge when you get sprung.
Rob Driver said
09:48 AM Sep 29, 2018
Good morning mezza56,
We got a similar email although not from another forum.
I agree with Santa, if there is a law or bi law which prevents it then if someone camps there, they have broken the law.
We have travelled extensively over the last few years and it is not hard to find a suitable rest area that permits over nite stops.
We use the Camps book and Wiki mainly and find it extremely easy to plan a trip from day to day.
My husband has read reports on another forum and he reckons that this guy will wriggle out of the fine because the council just doesnt want the hassle but that is his view. Time will tell.
drtooheys said
10:36 AM Sep 29, 2018
He was only stopping for a fatigue break......the only reason he had his awning rolled out was for shade on that side of the van, the chairs weren't being used at the time, nor was the table.
elliemike said
10:44 AM Sep 29, 2018
drtooheys wrote:
He was only stopping for a fatigue break......the only reason he had his awning rolled out was for shade on that side of the van, the chairs weren't being used at the time, nor was the table.
Was it a Rest Area ! Table and Chairs ?
I would think having the Awning out, and Table and Chairs, would be more like camping than just having a "Travellers Rest" period.
brickies said
11:03 AM Sep 29, 2018
IT'S not only Businesses that complain it's local residence who dont like people pull up and camping near where they live , If you are tired pull in somewhere before you reach a township or stop at a caravan park .
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:04 AM Sep 29, 2018
The typical rule in Europe is if you can legally park there, you can park there. End of story. Whether someone sleeps in the vehicle or not is of no consequence. What difference does it make?
We often stayed in the centre of towns and cities in Europe in a motorhome. Typically even in car parking areas they charge for parking between 8am and 5pm then you can spend the night for free. In some car parks they provided a few free spots just for motorhomes, often with water and a dump point handy. The difference in mentality is extraordinary. Motorhomes are all fully self contained with grey water tanks of course. Perhaps if that were the case here, the attitude would be different?
Caravans are more problematic and are not afforded the same considerations.
We stayed in a Macca's car park one night in Germany (although in Germany, there are typically lots of much better free camps around). There were spaces set aside specifically for the purpose with free WiFi. No purchase was required.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Saturday 29th of September 2018 12:47:47 PM
Bryan said
12:28 PM Sep 29, 2018
My take is if I had to stop in a rest area in a motorhome because I was tired, I would rest and sleep in the drivers seat, reclined for comfort, not on the bed and especially not with the awning and chairs out.
I've slept in my car in rest areas many times returning from an exhaustive couple of days fishing and camping rough on the beach
RosieW said
01:50 PM Sep 30, 2018
I don't have a problem with it - we are going for our 4th run to the coast, will stay in a cabin on the side of the Warrego one night in, one night out. Trucks pull up right outside. They aren't THAT loud; Caloundra (Battery Hill) was louder.
Having worked with a few long-haul truckies, I know that most will try to make the official rest areas, but sometimes, they just can't. They get so far and it's not gonna happen. We've all done it on long hauls surely; planned the stop, gotten so far, and then realised it's not going to happen.
It sucks, yes. But how much worse if they kept going and fell asleep at the wheel?
Desert Dweller said
05:34 AM Oct 1, 2018
We get on the road around 8am & pull off around 2pm. We have no sleeping issues whatsoever.
Why any RETRED person would need to drive long haul distances is beyond us. You've basically got nothing to do & all day to do it.
Unless of coarse you create artificial deadlines for yourself. In that case you're your own worst enemy.
Santa said
07:37 AM Oct 1, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
We get on the road around 8am & pull off around 2pm. We have no sleeping issues whatsoever.
Why any RETRED person would need to drive long haul distances is beyond us. You've basically got nothing to do & all day to do it.
Unless of coarse you create artificial deadlines for yourself. In that case you're your own worst enemy.
Common sense has little room in a thread like this DD, let yer emotions run riot.
RosieW said
11:03 AM Oct 1, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
We get on the road around 8am & pull off around 2pm. We have no sleeping issues whatsoever.
Why any RETRED person would need to drive long haul distances is beyond us. You've basically got nothing to do & all day to do it.
Unless of coarse you create artificial deadlines for yourself. In that case you're your own worst enemy.
Hah - yeah, well, if you don't have to be somewhere, why push?
We have doctor's in BNE coming up, we'll do the trip in 2 days, stop in a CP halfway. Could do it in a day, but why rush?
rockylizard said
11:10 AM Oct 1, 2018
RosieW wrote:
Desert Dweller wrote:
We get on the road around 8am & pull off around 2pm. We have no sleeping issues whatsoever. Why any RETRED person would need to drive long haul distances is beyond us. You've basically got nothing to do & all day to do it.
Unless of coarse you create artificial deadlines for yourself. In that case you're your own worst enemy.
Hah - yeah, well, if you don't have to be somewhere, why push?
We have doctor's in BNE coming up, we'll do the trip in 2 days, stop in a CP halfway. Could do it in a day, but why rush?
Gday...
I understand the philosophy and it is also my usual travel habit as well. However, there have been a few times when a family emergency/crisis has meant a hurried trip back to where they are.
Turns from lazily loping along to long days, many Km, late night stops and early morning starts.
One needs to be aware, and accepting, that many folk don't have the pleasure of always just loping along all the time.
Having said that, the person that this topic is referring to, seems to do this type of 'overnighting' fairly regularly and whinges if caught.
$100 is a cheap fee to cover the many nights they had probably spent in the past six or more months 'relieving fatigue' late at night without either paying a fee or getting sprung.
Cop it sweet would be my opinion, pay up, shut up and move on.
Cheers - John
Tony Bev said
11:28 AM Oct 1, 2018
Santa wrote:
Pretty straight forward solution, don't stealth camp within township area's, and, if you do, don't whinge when you get sprung.
I agree with the above, and add a bit more
We are all different, and I do not expect others, to agree with me
But... I support the towns which are RV friendly, in appreciation, that they have given something to me, such as free/low cost camp/water/dump point etc
If I must stop in an ordinary town, then I will ensure that I am out of there, before nightfall
It is not unusual for me to just stop on the side of the road
My theory is, that once I am asleep, it makes no difference to me, where I am
RosieW said
12:09 PM Oct 1, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
RosieW wrote:
Desert Dweller wrote:
We get on the road around 8am & pull off around 2pm. We have no sleeping issues whatsoever. Why any RETRED person would need to drive long haul distances is beyond us. You've basically got nothing to do & all day to do it.
Unless of coarse you create artificial deadlines for yourself. In that case you're your own worst enemy.
Hah - yeah, well, if you don't have to be somewhere, why push?
We have doctor's in BNE coming up, we'll do the trip in 2 days, stop in a CP halfway. Could do it in a day, but why rush?
Gday...
I understand the philosophy and it is also my usual travel habit as well. However, there have been a few times when a family emergency/crisis has meant a hurried trip back to where they are.
Turns from lazily loping along to long days, many Km, late night stops and early morning starts.
One needs to be aware, and accepting, that many folk don't have the pleasure of always just loping along all the time.
Having said that, the person that this topic is referring to, seems to do this type of 'overnighting' fairly regularly and whinges if caught.
$100 is a cheap fee to cover the many nights they had probably spent in the past six or more months 'relieving fatigue' late at night without either paying a fee or getting sprung.
Cop it sweet would be my opinion, pay up, shut up and move on.
Cheers - John
Yeah, emergencies don't count! If you gotta get there, you gotta get there. Our parents are all in Tassie & in their 80's, so if things go sideways there, we gotta get there...........
I don't have an issue with those who do it because they have to, or because situations change, but there are some self-entitled ****s who sh*t me to tears.
That being said, I apply the theory that if I see/hear someone pulled up on the roadside where they technically shouldn't be, I remind myself that I don't know their full story and just leave them be. If they are a habitual wastrel, karma will get them eventually...
Desert Dweller said
01:41 PM Oct 1, 2018
There is so much bush out there to pull off into & have a sleep that there is no excuse for stealth camping in a town.
PeterX said
07:24 PM Oct 13, 2018
is sleeping in a car on side of thjs road illegal?
What is definition of camping ?
Need to know exactly what the law says ? ie to see if there is over reach involved ....?
PeterX said
07:26 PM Oct 13, 2018
My Googleing found link to what seems the case ...
Seems the fine has been canceled... http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-28/fine-waived-for-resting-traveller-in-kununurra/10313458
In any case I found this on council website:
Permit required to camp outside a facility 3.14 (1) In this clause "facility" has the same meaning as is given to it in section 5(1) of the Caravan Parks and Camping Grounds Act 1995. (2) This clause does not apply to a facility operated by the local government.
(3)
A person shall not without a permit -
(a)
camp on, lodge at or occupy any structure at night for the purpose of sleeping on local government property; or erect any tent, camp, hut or similar structure on local government property other than a beach shade or windbreak erected for use during the hours of daylight and which is dismantled during those hours on the same day.
(b)
SO it seem to be not clear.
Interesting to observe , could be no fine if sleeping outside ...
PeterX said
07:42 PM Oct 13, 2018
What I thought
But at this week's council meeting, chief executive Carl Askew told councillors the matter would not be taken any further because the wording of the offence could be open to interpretation under current relevant legislation.
Got an email yesterday from another forum , prompting me to email the owners of a park in WA voicing concerns over the fact that they were prompting the local council to prosecute a traveller that was fined $100 for pulling over and taking a nap from driving fatigue. The charge was it was a no camping area . There has to be some sort of line in the sand for sure but who would be responsible if he drove on and killed someone or them self. The caravan park should be accorded no voice what so ever in ruling on this.
Agree Totally, It needs the question asked about BIAS towards Businesses from the Council. The council is there to run things for the People not business's alone.
It's like the Warnambool Council in Vic. who own and operate multiple Holiday Parks in the town. How can they legislate if they have a pecuniary interest in those businesses. Councils are run so often to benefit Business to the detriment of their taxpayers.
Needs a culture change.
I drive a MH weighs in the region of 8.5 tons.
The damage it would do if I fell asleep at the wheel doesn't bear thinking about.
No-one should have the right to stop someone taking a fatigue break let alone a council sticking their nose in.
Pretty straight forward solution, don't stealth camp within township area's, and, if you do, don't whinge when you get sprung.
We got a similar email although not from another forum.
I agree with Santa, if there is a law or bi law which prevents it then if someone camps there, they have broken the law.
We have travelled extensively over the last few years and it is not hard to find a suitable rest area that permits over nite stops.
We use the Camps book and Wiki mainly and find it extremely easy to plan a trip from day to day.
My husband has read reports on another forum and he reckons that this guy will wriggle out of the fine because the council just doesnt want the hassle but that is his view. Time will tell.
He was only stopping for a fatigue break......the only reason he had his awning rolled out was for shade on that side of the van, the chairs weren't being used at the time, nor was the table.
Was it a Rest Area ! Table and Chairs ?
I would think having the Awning out, and Table and Chairs, would be more like camping than just having a "Travellers Rest" period.
The typical rule in Europe is if you can legally park there, you can park there. End of story.
Whether someone sleeps in the vehicle or not is of no consequence.
What difference does it make?
We often stayed in the centre of towns and cities in Europe in a motorhome. Typically even in car parking areas they charge for parking between 8am and 5pm then you can spend the night for free. In some car parks they provided a few free spots just for motorhomes, often with water and a dump point handy.
The difference in mentality is extraordinary.
Motorhomes are all fully self contained with grey water tanks of course. Perhaps if that were the case here, the attitude would be different?
Caravans are more problematic and are not afforded the same considerations.
We stayed in a Macca's car park one night in Germany (although in Germany, there are typically lots of much better free camps around). There were spaces set aside specifically for the purpose with free WiFi. No purchase was required.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Saturday 29th of September 2018 12:47:47 PM
My take is if I had to stop in a rest area in a motorhome because I was tired, I would rest and sleep in the drivers seat, reclined for comfort, not on the bed and especially not with the awning and chairs out.
I've slept in my car in rest areas many times returning from an exhaustive couple of days fishing and camping rough on the beach
Having worked with a few long-haul truckies, I know that most will try to make the official rest areas, but sometimes, they just can't. They get so far and it's not gonna happen. We've all done it on long hauls surely; planned the stop, gotten so far, and then realised it's not going to happen.
It sucks, yes. But how much worse if they kept going and fell asleep at the wheel?
We get on the road around 8am & pull off around 2pm. We have no sleeping issues whatsoever.
Why any RETRED person would need to drive long haul distances is beyond us. You've basically got nothing to do & all day to do it.
Unless of coarse you create artificial deadlines for yourself. In that case you're your own worst enemy.
Common sense has little room in a thread like this DD, let yer emotions run riot.
Hah - yeah, well, if you don't have to be somewhere, why push?
We have doctor's in BNE coming up, we'll do the trip in 2 days, stop in a CP halfway. Could do it in a day, but why rush?
Gday...
I understand the philosophy and it is also my usual travel habit as well. However, there have been a few times when a family emergency/crisis has meant a hurried trip back to where they are.
Turns from lazily loping along to long days, many Km, late night stops and early morning starts.
One needs to be aware, and accepting, that many folk don't have the pleasure of always just loping along all the time.
Having said that, the person that this topic is referring to, seems to do this type of 'overnighting' fairly regularly and whinges if caught.
$100 is a cheap fee to cover the many nights they had probably spent in the past six or more months 'relieving fatigue' late at night without either paying a fee or getting sprung.
Cop it sweet would be my opinion, pay up, shut up and move on.
Cheers - John
I agree with the above, and add a bit more
We are all different, and I do not expect others, to agree with me
But...
I support the towns which are RV friendly, in appreciation, that they have given something to me, such as free/low cost camp/water/dump point etc
If I must stop in an ordinary town, then I will ensure that I am out of there, before nightfall
It is not unusual for me to just stop on the side of the road
My theory is, that once I am asleep, it makes no difference to me, where I am
Yeah, emergencies don't count! If you gotta get there, you gotta get there. Our parents are all in Tassie & in their 80's, so if things go sideways there, we gotta get there...........
I don't have an issue with those who do it because they have to, or because situations change, but there are some self-entitled ****s who sh*t me to tears.
That being said, I apply the theory that if I see/hear someone pulled up on the roadside where they technically shouldn't be, I remind myself that I don't know their full story and just leave them be. If they are a habitual wastrel, karma will get them eventually...
What is definition of camping ?
Need to know exactly what the law says ? ie to see if there is over reach involved ....?
www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-08/questions-over-roadside-rest-and-driver-fatigue-after-fine/10084818
Seems the fine has been canceled...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-28/fine-waived-for-resting-traveller-in-kununurra/10313458
In any case I found this on council website:
Permit required to camp outside a facility
3.14 (1) In this clause
"facility" has the same meaning as is given to it in section 5(1) of the Caravan Parks
and Camping Grounds Act 1995.
(2) This clause does not apply to a facility operated by the local government.
sleeping on local government property; or
erect any tent, camp, hut or similar structure on local government property
other than a beach shade or windbreak erected for use during the hours of
daylight and which is dismantled during those hours on the same day.
SO it seem to be not clear.
Interesting to observe , could be no fine if sleeping outside ...
But at this week's council meeting, chief executive Carl Askew told councillors the matter would not be taken any further because the wording of the offence could be open to interpretation under current relevant legislation.