it was mentioned in post, vehicle towing capacity changes in general section that inspections for shackles were happening in gympie. Can anyone who was stopped please confirm this and tell us the date or is it just A furfy. I have never been stopped. I am not interested in chinese whispers, only fact By someone who was stopped. Thanks everyone.
Dave1952 said
06:20 PM Aug 21, 2018
Hi Rocket,
It was published in the Sunshine Coast Daily. The towing capacity changes do not come into effect until early September. Apparently the Gympie Police, according to the Sunshine Coast Daily, were also checking to ensure that people towing trailers, horse floats and caravans were using rated shackles, and not the mld steel unrated shackles which are also available at some hardware stores such as Bunnings.
I use rated 2.5 tonne bow shackles, as four years ago, when I checked the National Towing Guide, there was clear reference to shackle sizes to be used. Unfortunately, I lost all that data when my two external hard drives crashed, taking with them almost 2 terabytes of data and safety related information. I have been unable to find that reference since the hard drive crash.
Regards
Dave
rockylizard said
07:07 PM Aug 21, 2018
Dave1952 wrote:
Hi Rocket,
It was published in the Sunshine Coast Daily. The towing capacity changes do not come into effect until early September. Apparently the Gympie Police, according to the Sunshine Coast Daily, were also checking to ensure that people towing trailers, horse floats and caravans were using rated shackles, and not the mild steel unrated shackles which are also available at some hardware stores such as Bunnings.
I use rated 2.5 tonne bow shackles, as four years ago, when I checked the National Towing Guide, there was clear reference to shackle sizes to be used. Unfortunately, I lost all that data when my two external hard drives crashed, taking with them almost 2 terabytes of data and safety related information. I have been unable to find that reference since the hard drive crash.
Regards
Dave
Gday...
Some furphies and falsehoods just continue to raise their hairy heads.
This was way back in 2014 and was thoroughly disproved and defused back then.
Although, there is no problem with having rated shackles - they are as good or better than unrated ones - it is just that rated shackles are NOT MANDATED to be used and one cannot be fined if not using them.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 07:11:28 PM
Dave1952 said
07:14 PM Aug 21, 2018
John, I suggest you read the following. As well, it may pay you to obtain a copy of AS 2741 2002 and check it out. Where an Australian Standard specifies that the standard MUST be complied with, it has equal effect to law, and any breach thereof would be viewed very dimly by the judiciary.
Safe Towing All about safe towing - 5 - Safety chains All pig trailers with rigid drawbars (with or without breakaway brakes but excluding converter dollies) and, any other trailer without breakaway brakes, must be fitted with safety chains that are marked in accordance with the relevant Australian Standard complying with the following: trailers that do not exceed 2500 kg ATM must have at least one safety chain complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994 or Australian Standard AS 4177.4-2004 'Caravan and light trailer towing components Part 4: Safety chains up to 3500kg capacity', or be a safety cable with a certified load capacity of the same trailers over 2.5 tonnes and not exceeding 3.5 tonnes ATM must have two safety chains of designation of 3500 kg complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994 or Australian Standard AS 4177.42004 trailers over 3500 kg ATM must have two safety chains made from steel of a minimum 800 MPa breaking stress that conforms to the mechanical properties of Grade T chain as specified in Australian Standard AS 2321-1979 'Short Link Chain for Lifting Purposes (uncalibrated)' or Australian Standard AS 2321-2006 'Short Link Chain for Lifting Purposes.' Each chain must be sized such that the minimum breaking load exceeds the ATM. The length of the safety chain/s must prevent the trailers drawbar hitting the ground if the trailer is detached from the towing vehicle. The safety chains must be properly connected to the tow bar with attachments capable of withstanding the specified breaking load of each chain. Do not use padlocks. For further information regarding couplings, brake requirements and safety chains please refer to the Vehicle Standard Bulletin - Building Small Trailers (VSB1) available on the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development website (www.infrastructure.gov.au) Safety Chain Connections to Tow Bar Safety chain(s) must be suitably and appropriately connected to a tow bar. The use of a shackle is permitted, provided the shackle used is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain in terms of strength and size. It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner/operator to ensure that a shackle, if used to attach safety chain to tow bar, is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain. This can be demonstrated in a couple of ways: 1. Use of a shackle that is compatible with the safety chain AND complies with AS 2741-2002 Shackles. In this case the shackle will have appropriate markings. 2. Alternatively, the use of a shackle that is compatible with the safety chain AND is of a reputable brand. In this case, the shackle will have appropriate markings to show the brand and/or part identification sufficient to trace its brand and strength.
Regards
Dave
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 07:15:25 PM
rockylizard said
07:29 PM Aug 21, 2018
Gday...
I understand what you are saying Dave. However, there was NEVER any bookings of drivers for having trailers/vans/horse floats etc connected and for not using rated shackles.
The standard actually states that the shackle needs to have markings that demonstrate it has the same 'rating' as the chains used on the van.
Let's look at other sources -
"Although there do not appear to be any specific requirements for shackles, the CIAA recommends shackles meeting the AS 2741-2002 standard be used to secure rated safety chains up to 3500kg capacity. In addition, they recommend that shackles should also have the following characteristics:
The shackle grade is S or 6.
The working load limit is 1000kg.
The shackle diameter is 10mm.
Either a bow or D shackle may be used.
So there you have it. Although there arent any specific requirements for the use of a rated D shackle when towing your trailer, boat or caravan, its still advisable to adhere to guidelines. After all, you want to make sure the components are up to the task."
"While there is an Australian Standard relating to shackles (AS 2741-2002), it only relates to the use of shackles for lifting purposes, such as lifting an engine into a car bay, not for towing. "Our understanding is that there is currently no regulation requiring shackles used on trailer safety chains to comply with the Australian Standard," the CIAV reported."
"Rumors about specific requirements for D-Shackles being enforced by police have been circulating around the country. These rumors claim police were issuing infringement notices for non-load rated D-Shackles used to tow caravan, boats and trailers. This information has spread throughout caravan parks and camping grounds and is now coming to the attention of dealers, manufacturers and state associations. Research by the Caravan Industry of Australia Technical Team shows police and state departments have denied these rumors, and advised that there is no specific requirement for D-Shackles."
So back to the original question of , was anyone on here stopped and on what date. And now another question, if stopped, what was the outcome?
Dave1952 said
08:04 PM Aug 21, 2018
At this point Rocket, I have no further information for you. I was simply reporting what was in the Sunshine Coast Daily.
the rocket said
08:04 PM Aug 21, 2018
Dave1952 wrote:
Hi Rocket,
It was published in the Sunshine Coast Daily. The towing capacity changes do not come into effect until early September. Apparently the Gympie Police, according to the Sunshine Coast Daily, were also checking to ensure that people towing trailers, horse floats and caravans were using rated shackles, and not the mld steel unrated shackles which are also available at some hardware stores such as Bunnings.
I use rated 2.5 tonne bow shackles, as four years ago, when I checked the National Towing Guide, there was clear reference to shackle sizes to be used. Unfortunately, I lost all that data when my two external hard drives crashed, taking with them almost 2 terabytes of data and safety related information. I have been unable to find that reference since the hard drive crash.
Regards
Dave
Hi dave, had a look online and this s what i found dated 15th august, 2014
-- Edited by the rocket on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:05:45 PM
Unless you can quote AS 2741-2002, and state with hand on heart that it is ONLY for lifting chains, and that is is only a "may" or "should", I don't think you really understand the full implications. If an Australian Standards specifies "Must" then it carries the full import and impact of law and will be referred to in court.
As well, I have worked in the crane industry and we do NOT use AS 2741 for our shackles or lifting devices. There are other, more applicable standards. I, too, could go on and on, but for the sake of peace, I won't. You say you are right...I say I am right, so it may be best to just leave it at that, eh? And let's just remain friends.
Cheers
Dave
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:10:36 PM
Unless you can quote AS 2741-2002, and state with hand on heart that it is ONLY for lifting chains, and that is is only a "may" or "should", I don't think you really understand the full implications. If an Australian Standards specifies "Must" then it carries the full import and impact of law and will be referred to in court.
As well, I have worked in the crane industry and we do NOT use AS 2741 for our shackles or lifting devices. There are other, more applicable standards. I, too, could go on and on, but for the sake of peace, I won't. You say you are right...I say I am right, so it may be best to just leave it at that, eh? And let's just remain friends.
Cheers
Dave
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:10:36 PM
Hi dave, i am not doubting you know your shackles. I just wanted to know if it was fact,that police were pulling people over, checking and fining people As i have not heard of this in qld. There was another thread on shackles i think. Anyway, i agree, lets all stay friends.
-- Edited by the rocket on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:33:53 PM
-- Edited by the rocket on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:48:46 PM
rockylizard said
08:25 PM Aug 21, 2018
Gday...
I understand how you have formed your opinion. However, there is overwhelming evidence produced by many authorities on the use of shackles attaching chains to the tow vehicle that confirms there is NO MANDATORY requirement to use RATED shackles.
That said, it is quite wise to use rated shackles if one chooses as they are more than is required to comply with AS 2741-2002 - it is just that that standard does NOT make rated shackles MANDATORY ... only a guideline.
"You say you are right...I say I am right" ... well, actually, it is not me saying it is me that is right ... rather is the broad collection of authorities over the past four years that have addressed the original 'fake news' that police were booking people for not using rated shackles. It is they who say AS 2741-2002 does NOT MANDATE the usage of RATED shackles.
All those authorities are saying is that to interpret AS 2741-2002 as a standard that MANDATES rated shackles for towing a caravan is an incorrect interpretation.
Cheers - just connect up safely and travel the safely as well Dave - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:34:43 PM
The Belmont Bear said
09:35 PM Aug 21, 2018
Some posters on this forum reguarly quote the Australian Standards to back a point of view and I get the impression that they are expecting everyone else should know what is in them. As there are many standards that cover a vast array of subjects I was wondering how many of the general public have actually ever seen an Australian Standard ? The relevent road traffic authorities in each state formulate the road traffic rules and that includes the ones that cover towing so if I want clarification on what is needed to be compliant I will ask them (RTA in NSW) and not rely on social media for legal advice.
Cheers
BB
Desert Dweller said
05:37 AM Aug 22, 2018
In our experience highway patrol seem to target certain things at certain times as a revenue raiser.
We've experienced quite a few recently, mirrors protruding to far beyond the extremities of the vehicle is one.
We've also been checked for a red flag on the leg of our outboard motor while towing our boat as well as the flip over thing that stops the brakes from coming on while reversing our boat trailer.
We've been weighed with our caravan on the Princes Hwy as well.
A blitz on D-shackles is probably another technical aspect to raise revenue, it's up to the police to decide what they want to target.
We threw away the cheap D-shackles that came with our caravan & bought rated bow shackles from a nearby truck dealer.
Bagmaker said
07:10 AM Aug 22, 2018
the item pictured looks like a bow shackle, not a D shackle.
Slow morning
PeterInSa said
12:37 PM Aug 22, 2018
So for a Caravan with an ATM of 2900Kg it should have 2 Bow Shackles each with a rating of 3000Kg as per... above ie
(Each chain must be sized such that the minimum breaking load exceeds the ATM.) ( Dave1952)
or the shackle rating must be higher than the chain rating as per above...
(Shackle rated at least 1.5 times the ATM of the Trailer).....( Fraser Coast Chronicle 7.56pm)
Am not sure I will be able to get 4.5T shackles thru my chain x 2
Peter
Bill B said
03:52 PM Aug 22, 2018
An S or 6 rated 10mm shackle is all that is required for a caravan with an ATM of 3,500 kgs.
Your question was ".....inspections for shackles were happening in gympie. Can anyone who was stopped please confirm this and tell us the date or is it just A furfy."
I would have thought the information I had provided clearly demonstrated that the "inspection for shackles happening in Gympie" were 'fake news' and over four years old. There were never any inspections for shackles, no-one was ever booked, and it is NOT mandatory to use rated shackles to secure the safety chains on a caravan.
it was mentioned in post, vehicle towing capacity changes in general section that inspections for shackles were happening in gympie. Can anyone who was stopped please confirm this and tell us the date or is it just A furfy. I have never been stopped. I am not interested in chinese whispers, only fact By someone who was stopped. Thanks everyone.
It was published in the Sunshine Coast Daily. The towing capacity changes do not come into effect until early September. Apparently the Gympie Police, according to the Sunshine Coast Daily, were also checking to ensure that people towing trailers, horse floats and caravans were using rated shackles, and not the mld steel unrated shackles which are also available at some hardware stores such as Bunnings.
I use rated 2.5 tonne bow shackles, as four years ago, when I checked the National Towing Guide, there was clear reference to shackle sizes to be used. Unfortunately, I lost all that data when my two external hard drives crashed, taking with them almost 2 terabytes of data and safety related information. I have been unable to find that reference since the hard drive crash.
Regards
Dave
Gday...
This was way back in 2014 and was thoroughly disproved and defused back then.
Read this before you all go out and buy rated shackles
Although, there is no problem with having rated shackles - they are as good or better than unrated ones - it is just that rated shackles are NOT MANDATED to be used and one cannot be fined if not using them.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 07:11:28 PM
John,
I suggest you read the following. As well, it may pay you to obtain a copy of AS 2741 2002 and check it out. Where an Australian Standard specifies that the standard MUST be complied with, it has equal effect to law, and any breach thereof would be viewed very dimly by the judiciary.
Safe Towing All about safe towing - 5 -
Safety chains
All pig trailers with rigid drawbars (with or without breakaway brakes but excluding converter dollies) and, any other trailer without breakaway brakes, must be fitted with safety chains that are marked in accordance with the relevant Australian Standard complying with the following:
trailers that do not exceed 2500 kg ATM must have at least one safety chain complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994 or Australian Standard AS 4177.4-2004 'Caravan and light trailer towing components Part 4: Safety chains up to 3500kg capacity', or be a safety cable with a certified load capacity of the same
trailers over 2.5 tonnes and not exceeding 3.5 tonnes ATM must have two safety chains of designation of 3500 kg complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994 or Australian Standard AS 4177.42004
trailers over 3500 kg ATM must have two safety chains made from steel of a minimum 800 MPa breaking stress that conforms to the mechanical properties of Grade T chain as specified in Australian Standard AS 2321-1979 'Short Link Chain for Lifting Purposes (uncalibrated)' or Australian Standard AS 2321-2006 'Short Link Chain for Lifting Purposes.' Each chain must be sized such that the minimum breaking load exceeds the ATM.
The length of the safety chain/s must prevent the trailers drawbar hitting the ground if the trailer is detached from the towing vehicle. The safety chains must be properly connected to the tow bar with attachments capable of withstanding the specified breaking load of each chain. Do not use padlocks.
For further information regarding couplings, brake requirements and safety chains please refer to the Vehicle Standard Bulletin - Building Small Trailers (VSB1) available on the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development website (www.infrastructure.gov.au)
Safety Chain Connections to Tow Bar
Safety chain(s) must be suitably and appropriately connected to a tow bar. The use of a shackle is permitted, provided the shackle used is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain in terms of strength and size.
It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner/operator to ensure that a shackle, if used to attach safety chain to tow bar, is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain. This can be demonstrated in a couple of ways:
1. Use of a shackle that is compatible with the safety chain AND complies with AS 2741-2002 Shackles. In this case the shackle will have appropriate markings.
2. Alternatively, the use of a shackle that is compatible with the safety chain AND is of a reputable brand. In this case, the shackle will have appropriate markings to show the brand and/or part identification sufficient to trace its brand and strength.
Regards
Dave
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 07:15:25 PM
Gday...
I understand what you are saying Dave. However, there was NEVER any bookings of drivers for having trailers/vans/horse floats etc connected and for not using rated shackles.
The standard actually states that the shackle needs to have markings that demonstrate it has the same 'rating' as the chains used on the van.
Let's look at other sources -
"Although there do not appear to be any specific requirements for shackles, the CIAA recommends shackles meeting the AS 2741-2002 standard be used to secure rated safety chains up to 3500kg capacity. In addition, they recommend that shackles should also have the following characteristics:
So there you have it. Although there arent any specific requirements for the use of a rated D shackle when towing your trailer, boat or caravan, its still advisable to adhere to guidelines. After all, you want to make sure the components are up to the task."
http://www.withoutahitch.com.au/trailer/rated-d-shackle-requirements/
"While there is an Australian Standard relating to shackles (AS 2741-2002), it only relates to the use of shackles for lifting purposes, such as lifting an engine into a car bay, not for towing.
"Our understanding is that there is currently no regulation requiring shackles used on trailer safety chains to comply with the Australian Standard," the CIAV reported."
https://www.caravanworld.com.au/news/1605/rated-shackles-not-legally-required-for-towing
"Rumors about specific requirements for D-Shackles being enforced by police have been circulating around the country. These rumors claim police were issuing infringement notices for non-load rated D-Shackles used to tow caravan, boats and trailers.
This information has spread throughout caravan parks and camping grounds and is now coming to the attention of dealers, manufacturers and state associations.
Research by the Caravan Industry of Australia Technical Team shows police and state departments have denied these rumors, and advised that there is no specific requirement for D-Shackles."
https://www.goseeaustralia.com.au/blog/d-shackle-confusion-resolved-by-rvmap-industry-recommendation-says-tech-alert
I could go on and on and on Dave
Cheers - John
So back to the original question of , was anyone on here stopped and on what date. And now another question, if stopped, what was the outcome?
Hi dave, had a look online and this s what i found dated 15th august, 2014
-- Edited by the rocket on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:05:45 PM
John,
Unless you can quote AS 2741-2002, and state with hand on heart that it is ONLY for lifting chains, and that is is only a "may" or "should", I don't think you really understand the full implications. If an Australian Standards specifies "Must" then it carries the full import and impact of law and will be referred to in court.
As well, I have worked in the crane industry and we do NOT use AS 2741 for our shackles or lifting devices. There are other, more applicable standards. I, too, could go on and on, but for the sake of peace, I won't. You say you are right...I say I am right, so it may be best to just leave it at that, eh? And let's just remain friends.
Cheers
Dave
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:10:36 PM
Hi dave, i am not doubting you know your shackles. I just wanted to know if it was fact,that police were pulling people over, checking and fining people As i have not heard of this in qld. There was another thread on shackles i think. Anyway, i agree, lets all stay friends.
-- Edited by the rocket on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:33:53 PM
-- Edited by the rocket on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:48:46 PM
Gday...
I understand how you have formed your opinion. However, there is overwhelming evidence produced by many authorities on the use of shackles attaching chains to the tow vehicle that confirms there is NO MANDATORY requirement to use RATED shackles.
That said, it is quite wise to use rated shackles if one chooses as they are more than is required to comply with AS 2741-2002 - it is just that that standard does NOT make rated shackles MANDATORY ... only a guideline.
"You say you are right...I say I am right" ... well, actually, it is not me saying it is me that is right ... rather is the broad collection of authorities over the past four years that have addressed the original 'fake news' that police were booking people for not using rated shackles. It is they who say AS 2741-2002 does NOT MANDATE the usage of RATED shackles.
All those authorities are saying is that to interpret AS 2741-2002 as a standard that MANDATES rated shackles for towing a caravan is an incorrect interpretation.
Cheers - just connect up safely and travel the safely as well Dave - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 21st of August 2018 08:34:43 PM
Some posters on this forum reguarly quote the Australian Standards to back a point of view and I get the impression that they are expecting everyone else should know what is in them. As there are many standards that cover a vast array of subjects I was wondering how many of the general public have actually ever seen an Australian Standard ? The relevent road traffic authorities in each state formulate the road traffic rules and that includes the ones that cover towing so if I want clarification on what is needed to be compliant I will ask them (RTA in NSW) and not rely on social media for legal advice.
Cheers
BB
We've experienced quite a few recently, mirrors protruding to far beyond the extremities of the vehicle is one.
We've also been checked for a red flag on the leg of our outboard motor while towing our boat as well as the flip over thing that stops the brakes from coming on while reversing our boat trailer.
We've been weighed with our caravan on the Princes Hwy as well.
A blitz on D-shackles is probably another technical aspect to raise revenue, it's up to the police to decide what they want to target.
We threw away the cheap D-shackles that came with our caravan & bought rated bow shackles from a nearby truck dealer.
Slow morning
(Each chain must be sized such that the minimum breaking load exceeds the ATM.) ( Dave1952)
or the shackle rating must be higher than the chain rating as per above...
(Shackle rated at least 1.5 times the ATM of the Trailer).....( Fraser Coast Chronicle 7.56pm)
Am not sure I will be able to get 4.5T shackles thru my chain x 2
Peter
https://www.couplemate.com.au/trailer-parts/safety-chains-and-shackles-trailer-parts/up-to-2-5t/rated-dee-shackle/
Shame this thread was totally hijacked.
that's normal
Gday...
Not too sure it was actually hijacked rocket ....
Your question was ".....inspections for shackles were happening in gympie. Can anyone who was stopped please confirm this and tell us the date or is it just A furfy."
I would have thought the information I had provided clearly demonstrated that the "inspection for shackles happening in Gympie" were 'fake news' and over four years old. There were never any inspections for shackles, no-one was ever booked, and it is NOT mandatory to use rated shackles to secure the safety chains on a caravan.
Cheers - John
https://www.timetoroam.com.au/rated-d-shackles-towing/
An interesting article from 2017 maybe this answers your question Rocket it pretty much backs up what Rocky posted earlier.
Cheers
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Saturday 25th of August 2018 03:27:15 PM
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Saturday 25th of August 2018 03:28:55 PM