ive just bought a motorhome for the first time. Being a complete novice, I was hoping for a little advice about solar/ 240v power/ inverters/batteries. My Ford Transit h a 120w solar panel, 2 house batteries and controller. No inverter. Therefore the only way to utilise 240v power points is to connect to external mains power. I would like to be self sufficient to a degree. My question really is- How difficult is it to be self sufficient?
rockylizard said
10:56 AM Aug 21, 2018
Gday...
There are some experts on the forum who will be along soon with advice and opinion ... you could try the search function on the forum but that might be a bit long-winded ... but in the meantime, this publication might give you a good overview and ideas.
It isn't all rocket science, just a bit daunting when ya first begin.
OH and welcome to the forum
Cheers - John
aussie_paul said
11:31 AM Aug 21, 2018
T1 Terry wrote:
We were in the preliminary stages of setting up a self sufficient solar/DC to DC/lithium battery system with a 2000w inverter for a lady we met at the Stone The Crows festival last Easter, but a mechanical issue came up so the lady has put it on the back burner.
Best to contact you via PM or email rather than turn this forum into a sales platform, I get accused of that quite a bit by some members
T1 Terry
Terry, a comment like that is not required by the OP.
Aussie Paul.
Tony Bev said
01:04 PM Aug 21, 2018
Hi Sticko
Firstly welcome to the forum
I am not a techy so the following is only my opinion, from what little knowledge I have about being self sufficient, while free camping
120 watt of solar panel does not sound like it is enough to charge your batteries if you were to use an inverter to produce 240 volts. This is probably why your motorhome does not have a built in inverter
Most of us who are self sufficient, utilise 12 volt for most, if not all of our needs Some of us carry a gen set, just in case we are forced to use 240 volt
Hope that the techies can explain this in better detail than I can
Aus-Kiwi said
09:19 PM Aug 21, 2018
At least 250 watt . To run microwave any time to cook ? You require Atleast 300 AH batteries. Unless you go Lithium batteries . Sit down when quoted the cost of them for initial set up. We hardly use our inverter . Ok we have generator. Mainly use gas BBQ for for main meals . Microwave 90 seconds at a time to heat meals . Depending on battery storage ? Most our morning,lunch meals are either cerial or bread type for lunch . Tv, fridge etc is 12v . Our inverter is 1500 watt but hardly use it . If you set yourself up for more or as much solar you can fit rather than just enough ? You will be fine . I connected panels in 3 groups in parallel. If one fails it can be disconnected or tested .
Jaahn said
09:47 PM Aug 21, 2018
stricko wrote:
ive just bought a motorhome for the first time. Being a complete novice, I was hoping for a little advice about solar/ 240v power/ inverters/batteries. My Ford Transit h a 120w solar panel, 2 house batteries and controller. No inverter. Therefore the only way to utilise 240v power points is to connect to external mains power. I would like to be self sufficient to a degree. My question really is- How difficult is it to be self sufficient?
Hi stricko
How long is a bit of string ??
Lots of people are self sufficient, some for a couple of days, some for weeks, some always. It depends on what your standard is really and what you want to spend. If you stick to 12V items and modest usage you can do it easily for a short time. If you want to use 240V things then it will cost more and more ! But more solar is the answer to making power off the grid with batteries to store it. Or generators but they can cause problems !!
The suggestion to buy that book and do a bit of good reading is probably the best value to start. I did that !!
Jaahn
Jaahn said
03:46 PM Aug 22, 2018
T1 Terry wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:
T1 Terry wrote:
We were in the preliminary stages of setting up a self sufficient solar/DC to DC/lithium battery system with a 2000w inverter for a lady we met at the Stone The Crows festival last Easter, but a mechanical issue came up so the lady has put it on the back burner.
Best to contact you via PM or email rather than turn this forum into a sales platform, I get accused of that quite a bit by some members
T1 Terry
Terry, a comment like that is not required by the OP.
Aussie Paul.
Sadly it is Paul. Because no one hits back at the attackers this forum has gone the way of so many forums these same people post on. No one is safe posting any information that isn't the same as some who believe the optimum set up is the one they have and will attack anyone who says different and the one about me pushing my own barrow for commercial interests is the most common attack used.
By simply saying we have already been down this path for another full timer who wanted to be self sufficient while still having a few 240vac luxuries that had the same type of vehicle gives the OP the option to contact Margaret or myself if they are interested.
If that also offends some here then say so and I'll stop doing that as well
As that well known book writer once said on another forum, not only do people want the information for free, they demand it be presented in the format they want and get nasty if they don't receive it.
Terry there is nothing stopping you from just sending the PM to the OP. You just cannot resist getting the commercial in and then trying to justify it by blaming others !
Jaahn
Aus-Kiwi said
06:14 PM Aug 22, 2018
One week ?? Lol
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 22nd of August 2018 06:18:38 PM
rockylizard said
06:47 PM Aug 22, 2018
Gday...
I do understand your feelings (and the "bruises") Terry ... but a leopard has trouble changing its spots ... no matter how hard it tries.
I totally agree with Jaahn ... there is absolutely nothing wrong with you sending a PM to the OP and there is nothing wrong with you providing a service to members the same as any other commercial entity is able to do ... but why do you always need to have a bit of a 'sell' in the post ... save yerself a bitta grieff maaaaate ... jest send a PM, with details and/or ya webpage.
No-one would have known and no-one woulda stuck their bib in - and unsurprisingly ........... no-one woulda cared.
Cheers - John
Farmhat said
07:20 PM Aug 22, 2018
T1 Terry wrote:
Bucket as the kid says in the ad, had enough of this crap, you can return to being Eddie the expert and fight it out with the others clambering to be the top gun expert. No more posts from me till someone puts you lot back in your box
T1 Terry
All right you lot, back in your box.
There you go Terry.
Joe
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:43 PM Aug 22, 2018
Terry.
Look at the top of the page... ADVERTISEMENTS.
I am sure Cindy will take your money and you will get the advertising you pay for? That is the place for it. And those who wish to use your services will contact you directly.
Cheers,
Peter
Ron-D said
10:40 AM Aug 24, 2018
Terry we hnow lithium is a good system ,but most dont need it .Its expensive to start from scratch with a new system,why bother going to great expense when your system has has been doing everything you want for years. can You imagine everyone stripping all there charging gear out of there Rvs at great expense fitting lithium in ,its ridiculous,I dont think people here need to have your product shoved down there throat with massive never ending posts so as to speak ,anyone with comon sense would no thats a silly approach to flogging your product....
T1 Terry said
05:13 PM Aug 24, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Terry. Look at the top of the page... ADVERTISEMENTS. I am sure Cindy will take your money and you will get the advertising you pay for? That is the place for it. And those who wish to use your services will contact you directly. Cheers, Peter
Peter, an advertisement would require the business name to be put forward wouldn't it? If I'm advertising in any of these posts where I'm replying to questions asked please post a link here for all to see that what you say is indeed correct and not a form of troll activity
T1 Terry
T1 Terry said
05:23 PM Aug 24, 2018
Ron-D wrote:
Terry we hnow lithium is a good system ,but most dont need it .Its expensive to start from scratch with a new system,why bother going to great expense when your system has has been doing everything you want for years. can You imagine everyone stripping all there charging gear out of there Rvs at great expense fitting lithium in ,its ridiculous,I dont think people here need to have your product shoved down there throat with massive never ending posts so as to speak ,anyone with comon sense would no thats a silly approach to flogging your product....
No idea why anyone would strip out all the gear they already have, unless it's stuffed. Lithium batteries do not need special charging equipment, what they need is a management system to protect them from being over charged or discharge so they don't get damaged. I'm sure you wouldn't fit a lead acid battery with a battery management system that did the same thing because that battery would be destroyed in much the same way.
Just because the charging voltages and minimum battery voltages are slightly different doesn't mean an interface between the lead acid charging equipment and the lithium battery can't be used to adapt it to suit lithium battery charging.
In reality there is no such thing as a lithium battery charger on the market at the moment, but the solar controller made by the Canadian guy via Kickstarter goes about as close to an out of the box unit as you'll find. No I don't sell them so this is not an advert for them apart from putting forward a product that appears to do the job required of a lithium battery solar controller.
T1 Terry
T1 Terry said
05:27 PM Aug 24, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
I do understand your feelings (and the "bruises") Terry ... but a leopard has trouble changing its spots ... no matter how hard it tries.
I totally agree with Jaahn ... there is absolutely nothing wrong with you sending a PM to the OP and there is nothing wrong with you providing a service to members the same as any other commercial entity is able to do ... but why do you always need to have a bit of a 'sell' in the post ... save yerself a bitta grieff maaaaate ... jest send a PM, with details and/or ya webpage.
No-one would have known and no-one woulda stuck their bib in - and unsurprisingly ........... no-one woulda cared.
Cheers - John
Now that would be unsolicited advertising and I'd be the first person to scream blue murder if it happened to me. I'm available via PM or email through my profile on this and any other forum. If someone wants my help or advice I recommend them to use that method, or track me down on the other forums where they appreciate the free advice given
T1 Terry
Ron-D said
05:54 PM Aug 24, 2018
T1 Terry wrote:
Ron-D wrote:
Terry we hnow lithium is a good system ,but most dont need it .Its expensive to start from scratch with a new system,why bother going to great expense when your system has has been doing everything you want for years. can You imagine everyone stripping all there charging gear out of there Rvs at great expense fitting lithium in ,its ridiculous,I dont think people here need to have your product shoved down there throat with massive never ending posts so as to speak ,anyone with comon sense would no thats a silly approach to flogging your product....
No idea why anyone would strip out all the gear they already have, unless it's stuffed. Lithium batteries do not need special charging equipment, what they need is a management system to protect them from being over charged or discharge so they don't get damaged. I'm sure you wouldn't fit a lead acid battery with a battery management system that did the same thing because that battery would be destroyed in much the same way.
Just because the charging voltages and minimum battery voltages are slightly different doesn't mean an interface between the lead acid charging equipment and the lithium battery can't be used to adapt it to suit lithium battery charging.
In reality there is no such thing as a lithium battery charger on the market at the moment, but the solar controller made by the Canadian guy via Kickstarter goes about as close to an out of the box unit as you'll find. No I don't sell them so this is not an advert for them apart from putting forward a product that appears to do the job required of a lithium battery solar controller.
T1 Terry
so this is hard to understand lithium batteries dont need a special charger,but needs a solar controller,we dont need to change our battery charger .Terry is that what your saying. Just the batteries to lithium ,what else is involve ?Terry there surely has to be more to this for the money....
T1 Terry said
12:59 PM Aug 25, 2018
I'm probably going to get hit yet another advertising thing and have more posts deleted, but here goes:
We build an interface unit that can control any charging device so it works with the lithium battery system we install and we back that with the guarantee that the device we fit and the battery pack is fit for purpose. Naturally we can't guarantee the charging device itself be cause we neither supplied or installed it, but we do guarantee our equipment will not cause any damage to the charging system already installed. We simply use a function that was part of the original charger control system to alter its operation if the charger is one of the better designed units that sense battery voltage via separate leads, or if it doesn't have this ability we control the supply side so the charger simply stops charging because it doesn't have a power supply.
This is all part of the control box we supply and install, along with various displays so the user can see what is going on, a multi level audible and visual warn system if something is not within the normally automatically controlled range and a final level the shuts everything down if no one responded to the alarms to save the battery from damage.
That is why the "one off no matter the system capacity" control box is so expensive, it does a lot of work automatically so the user doesn't need to do anything under normal operation yet has a fall back regime that ends in total shut down if all else fails. We can build a simpler control system that is much cheaper but it requires the user to respond to the warning alarms and therefore the battery protection is in their hands and the resulting costs if they missed an alarm
T1 Terry
Ron-D said
04:32 PM Aug 25, 2018
Thanks for your reply Terry I asked the question you answered it ...
Reed said
11:25 AM Sep 16, 2018
We have 415 W of Solar on 19' Roadtrek (1400 W on 5th wheel) with 4.5 kW hrs of LFP. We utilize microwave to heat water, run absorption fridge during daylight (propane at night), and up to 1.5 hours of air conditioning. Standard lead acid batteries would do everything but the air conditioning. Roadtreks have little real estate or we would have our son put another 315 W panel aboard.
We do not plug in very often. The Roadtrek has an integrated 2.5 kW Onan gasoline (runs off gas tank) generator; however, we have only run it every so often since the manual says to.
Solar panels are inexpensive but they are merely the tip of the iceberg.
We will take 5th wheel to Yucatan this winter, the water is 81 F in January
Reed and Elaine
iana said
10:10 AM Sep 21, 2018
Ha Ha, welcome to the forum stricko, sometimes it is dog eat dog. Soon the chest bumping will stop and you may get some answers to your question.
iana said
10:21 AM Sep 21, 2018
On reading your post again, and also we are self sufficient power wise, several things spring to mind. You really have to forget 240v, and work your utilities on 12v, and gas. Those nice modern tools like micro wave ovens, electric jugs etc. have to go back into the cupboard.
It may pay to tell us on here the size and age of the batteries. Is the motor home new or quite old and second hand. I ask this because our van is all LED lighting which uses a fraction of the power. You have not stated how many soles will be sharing this power, that will make a big difference, also are you just planning a one night free camp stop between powered caravan parks, or long term free camping.
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:48 AM Sep 21, 2018
iana wrote:
On reading your post again, and also we are self sufficient power wise, several things spring to mind. You really have to forget 240v, and work your utilities on 12v, and gas. Those nice modern tools like micro wave ovens, electric jugs etc. have to go back into the cupboard.
Not completely.
Solar is now cheap. If you can install enough then the batteries only have to provide the "excess" and get you through the night until the sun shines again.
Solar is also cheaper than batteries which need replacing from time to time. The more solar, the longer the batteries will last.
Our 600W of solar is ample to run a bread maker, electric blankets, diesel heater and electric jug for washing up, coffee and the like. The total power required by those appliances is quickly replaced by the solar.
A well insulated 12V fridge will only need 25Ah or so from the batteries overnight.
We still use gas for cooking, but our consumption is down to about 1gk per month and I would like to get rid of it altogether.
Cheers,
Peter
Aus-Kiwi said
12:49 PM Sep 21, 2018
Yep even an efficient 240v fridge with inverter works ok . Well ? Much more efficient than absorption type !!
T1 Terry said
01:06 PM Sep 22, 2018
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Yep even an efficient 240v fridge with inverter works ok . Well ? Much more efficient than absorption type !!
And 12v compressor models as well if you are looking at Ah used per 24hrs and you choose an inverter controlled type that practically all new fridges are these days. Once you start to head into country where the RV inside temp might climb above 32*C, the 240vac inverter control fridge/freezer really comes into its own. You can actually carry ice cream in the freezer in the middle of summer and it still remain ice cream 3 mths later .... if it lasts that long of course
T1 Terry
T1 Terry said
01:10 PM Sep 22, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
iana wrote:
On reading your post again, and also we are self sufficient power wise, several things spring to mind. You really have to forget 240v, and work your utilities on 12v, and gas. Those nice modern tools like micro wave ovens, electric jugs etc. have to go back into the cupboard.
Not completely.
Solar is now cheap. If you can install enough then the batteries only have to provide the "excess" and get you through the night until the sun shines again.
Solar is also cheaper than batteries which need replacing from time to time. The more solar, the longer the batteries will last.
Our 600W of solar is ample to run a bread maker, electric blankets, diesel heater and electric jug for washing up, coffee and the like. The total power required by those appliances is quickly replaced by the solar.
A well insulated 12V fridge will only need 25Ah or so from the batteries overnight.
We still use gas for cooking, but our consumption is down to about 1gk per month and I would like to get rid of it altogether.
Cheers,
Peter
Interesting Peter, I believe you posted some where you were looking at replacing your batteries yet again, so what killed them this time? Last time you claimed it was too much battery capacity so they weren't working hard enough, you now say you have ample solar so that isn't the problem, so what is the problem?
ive just bought a motorhome for the first time. Being a complete novice, I was hoping for a little advice about solar/ 240v power/ inverters/batteries. My Ford Transit h a 120w solar panel, 2 house batteries and controller. No inverter. Therefore the only way to utilise 240v power points is to connect to external mains power. I would like to be self sufficient to a degree. My question really is- How difficult is it to be self sufficient?
Gday...
There are some experts on the forum who will be along soon with advice and opinion ... you could try the search function on the forum but that might be a bit long-winded ... but in the meantime, this publication might give you a good overview and ideas.
https://www.rvbooks.com.au/page/solar-that-really-works/
It isn't all rocket science, just a bit daunting when ya first begin.
OH and welcome to the forum
Cheers - John
Terry, a comment like that is not required by the OP.
Aussie Paul.
Hi Sticko
Firstly welcome to the forum
I am not a techy so the following is only my opinion, from what little knowledge I have about being self sufficient, while free camping
120 watt of solar panel does not sound like it is enough to charge your batteries if you were to use an inverter to produce 240 volts.
This is probably why your motorhome does not have a built in inverter
Most of us who are self sufficient, utilise 12 volt for most, if not all of our needs
Some of us carry a gen set, just in case we are forced to use 240 volt
Hope that the techies can explain this in better detail than I can
Hi stricko
How long is a bit of string ??
Lots of people are self sufficient, some for a couple of days, some for weeks, some always. It depends on what your standard is really and what you want to spend. If you stick to 12V items and modest usage you can do it easily for a short time. If you want to use 240V things then it will cost more and more ! But more solar is the answer to making power off the grid with batteries to store it. Or generators but they can cause problems !!
The suggestion to buy that book and do a bit of good reading is probably the best value to start. I did that !!
Jaahn
One week ?? Lol
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 22nd of August 2018 06:18:38 PM
Gday...
I totally agree with Jaahn ... there is absolutely nothing wrong with you sending a PM to the OP and there is nothing wrong with you providing a service to members the same as any other commercial entity is able to do ... but why do you always need to have a bit of a 'sell' in the post ... save yerself a bitta grieff maaaaate ... jest send a PM, with details and/or ya webpage.
No-one would have known and no-one woulda stuck their bib in - and unsurprisingly ........... no-one woulda cared.
Cheers - John
All right you lot, back in your box.
There you go Terry.
Joe
Look at the top of the page... ADVERTISEMENTS.
I am sure Cindy will take your money and you will get the advertising you pay for? That is the place for it. And those who wish to use your services will contact you directly.
Cheers,
Peter
Terry we hnow lithium is a good system ,but most dont need it .Its expensive to start from scratch with a new system,why bother going to great expense when your system has has been doing everything you want for years. can You imagine everyone stripping all there charging gear out of there Rvs at great expense fitting lithium in ,its ridiculous,I dont think people here need to have your product shoved down there throat with massive never ending posts so as to speak ,anyone with comon sense would no thats a silly approach to flogging your product....
Peter, an advertisement would require the business name to be put forward wouldn't it? If I'm advertising in any of these posts where I'm replying to questions asked please post a link here for all to see that what you say is indeed correct and not a form of troll activity
T1 Terry
No idea why anyone would strip out all the gear they already have, unless it's stuffed. Lithium batteries do not need special charging equipment, what they need is a management system to protect them from being over charged or discharge so they don't get damaged. I'm sure you wouldn't fit a lead acid battery with a battery management system that did the same thing because that battery would be destroyed in much the same way.
Just because the charging voltages and minimum battery voltages are slightly different doesn't mean an interface between the lead acid charging equipment and the lithium battery can't be used to adapt it to suit lithium battery charging.
In reality there is no such thing as a lithium battery charger on the market at the moment, but the solar controller made by the Canadian guy via Kickstarter goes about as close to an out of the box unit as you'll find. No I don't sell them so this is not an advert for them apart from putting forward a product that appears to do the job required of a lithium battery solar controller.
T1 Terry
Now that would be unsolicited advertising and I'd be the first person to scream blue murder if it happened to me. I'm available via PM or email through my profile on this and any other forum. If someone wants my help or advice I recommend them to use that method, or track me down on the other forums where they appreciate the free advice given
T1 Terry
so this is hard to understand lithium batteries dont need a special charger,but needs a solar controller,we dont need to change our battery charger .Terry is that what your saying. Just the batteries to lithium ,what else is involve ?Terry there surely has to be more to this for the money....
We build an interface unit that can control any charging device so it works with the lithium battery system we install and we back that with the guarantee that the device we fit and the battery pack is fit for purpose. Naturally we can't guarantee the charging device itself be cause we neither supplied or installed it, but we do guarantee our equipment will not cause any damage to the charging system already installed. We simply use a function that was part of the original charger control system to alter its operation if the charger is one of the better designed units that sense battery voltage via separate leads, or if it doesn't have this ability we control the supply side so the charger simply stops charging because it doesn't have a power supply.
This is all part of the control box we supply and install, along with various displays so the user can see what is going on, a multi level audible and visual warn system if something is not within the normally automatically controlled range and a final level the shuts everything down if no one responded to the alarms to save the battery from damage.
That is why the "one off no matter the system capacity" control box is so expensive, it does a lot of work automatically so the user doesn't need to do anything under normal operation yet has a fall back regime that ends in total shut down if all else fails. We can build a simpler control system that is much cheaper but it requires the user to respond to the warning alarms and therefore the battery protection is in their hands and the resulting costs if they missed an alarm
T1 Terry
Thanks for your reply Terry I asked the question you answered it ...
We do not plug in very often. The Roadtrek has an integrated 2.5 kW Onan gasoline (runs off gas tank) generator; however, we have only run it every so often since the manual says to.
Solar panels are inexpensive but they are merely the tip of the iceberg.
We will take 5th wheel to Yucatan this winter, the water is 81 F in January
Reed and Elaine
It may pay to tell us on here the size and age of the batteries. Is the motor home new or quite old and second hand. I ask this because our van is all LED lighting which uses a fraction of the power. You have not stated how many soles will be sharing this power, that will make a big difference, also are you just planning a one night free camp stop between powered caravan parks, or long term free camping.
Not completely.
Solar is now cheap. If you can install enough then the batteries only have to provide the "excess" and get you through the night until the sun shines again.
Solar is also cheaper than batteries which need replacing from time to time. The more solar, the longer the batteries will last.
Our 600W of solar is ample to run a bread maker, electric blankets, diesel heater and electric jug for washing up, coffee and the like. The total power required by those appliances is quickly replaced by the solar.
A well insulated 12V fridge will only need 25Ah or so from the batteries overnight.
We still use gas for cooking, but our consumption is down to about 1gk per month and I would like to get rid of it altogether.
Cheers,
Peter
And 12v compressor models as well if you are looking at Ah used per 24hrs and you choose an inverter controlled type that practically all new fridges are these days. Once you start to head into country where the RV inside temp might climb above 32*C, the 240vac inverter control fridge/freezer really comes into its own. You can actually carry ice cream in the freezer in the middle of summer and it still remain ice cream 3 mths later .... if it lasts that long of course
T1 Terry
Interesting Peter, I believe you posted some where you were looking at replacing your batteries yet again, so what killed them this time? Last time you claimed it was too much battery capacity so they weren't working hard enough, you now say you have ample solar so that isn't the problem, so what is the problem?
T1 Terry