We were informed yesterday that Qld will be bringing in new laws for caravans, we thought our van was fine until we bought scales to weigh the ball weight and found it over weight, we use a Jeep Grand Cherokee to tow and 18ft van with slide out. The only way we can get the weight down is to remove the gas bottle and batteries (3) and everything else we have got in the tunnel boot???? soooo what are we supposed to do???? we do not carry a great deal in the van. we have got a Cell 2012 The River, 3 batteries in the tunnel boot and 2 x 9KG gas bottles. We are dumb founded. I hope some one has some good idea's please, we making a trip to Tasmania and do not want to be caught over weight, we are at a loss as we cannot take out anything else or we will be empty !!!!!. Thanks for any help.
Joda said
12:04 PM Aug 18, 2018
Is it only heavy on the ball? I,m assuming you used towball scales or have you weighed the whole van, how many water tanks?, maybe just need a reshuffle of heavy items nearer the axle and run with 1 tank empty, be ruthless with what you take.
Joda
vickiparker said
12:12 PM Aug 18, 2018
The water tanks are in the middle over the axles anything heavy is over the axels. we have 1 water tank 120 litres, this is what I can't understand we really do not carry much. towball scales we still have to weigh the van, we are going to change the mattress as that is heavy but when we took it out it made no difference, the bed is at the front of the van. Tearing our hair out at the moment.
PeterInSa said
12:13 PM Aug 18, 2018
Vicki,
I do not know what the tow ball weight is for the JGC, but I understand some jeeps have a 350KG rating and to go over that for an 18Ft van to me would take some effort, ie Slide out is between the van wheels and the A frame and the van suspension is well towards the rear of the van. I would be considering moving the water tanks to the Rear of the caravan wheels/suspension and ditto the batteries and leave the gas bottles where they are. Filling the water tanks at the rear of the van will also lighten the Tow ball weight.
Would help if you told us the weight of the van on the towball and the weight of the van.
My thoughts, hope you solve your problem.
Peter
Tony Bev said
12:17 PM Aug 18, 2018
Hello vickiparker
Firstly welcome to the forum
Not knowing all your weights.
But...
If it is only the ball weight which is over, you may try putting some things into the Jeep, while travelling
You could also try rearranging stuff, inside the caravan, canned food etc, to the rear, (while travelling)
When you finally solve the problem, which I hope that you do, can you please let us know
I am led to believe that weights, will become an issue for many of us, in the future
Dougwe said
12:17 PM Aug 18, 2018
Welcome to the gang Vicki, enjoy here and out in the playground.
Wow! Not easy hey!
Now, I am gussing by your intro your van's ATM is on or under Max weight I say that because you only mentioned the ball weight was over
That all said and it would involve some expence but have you thought of relocating the batteries to above the axle/s That way it wouldn't increase the ATM but reduce the ball weight. Do you need three batteries? The other thing you could ALSO do is change the 9kg gas bottles to 4.5kg bottles, assisting in the ball weight reduction.
It is very important not to go over the vans ATM as well. VERY IMPORTANT.
Upto a couple of months ago a update of your weights were possible and new compliance plate fitted but I read somewhere that is no longer an option and the reason I didn't suggest it.
The authorities are starting to tuffen up a little now. I was pulled over at a roadside check early this year in Northern VIC and the aluminium teepee and Collie were given the third degree. Both came out at the end of the process under all the max weights. Everything else they checked were also OK. I did know this though as I had gone through a major weight reduction process of the aluminium teepee mid 2017.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
vickiparker said
12:20 PM Aug 18, 2018
180 ball weight that is on the van.
Dougwe said
12:20 PM Aug 18, 2018
Wow! When I started my reply Vicki there were no replies and by the time I posted it there were heaps. Sorry if I ahve doubled up on anything.
vince56 said
12:50 PM Aug 18, 2018
Hi Vicki,
You will find that most owners go by the 10% rule of thumb, ie, that the ball weight should be around 10% of total caravan weight (at a minimum I suggest)
I would have thought 180 would be about right for your van, I had a look at the specs for the 2012 Cell River, it looks like a tare weight of 1800kg, so the 180kg ball is spot on. Spec. says ball weight of 186kg.
On the surface it's hard to see what the problem is, the Jeep should easily handle that weight so why do you think there is an overweight issue???
Cheers Vince
We were informed yesterday that Qld will be bringing in new laws for caravans, we thought our van was fine until we bought scales to weigh the ball weight and found it over weight, we use a Jeep Grand Cherokee to tow and 18ft van with slide out. The only way we can get the weight down is to remove the gas bottle and batteries (3) and everything else we have got in the tunnel boot???? soooo what are we supposed to do???? we do not carry a great deal in the van. we have got a Cell 2012 The River, 3 batteries in the tunnel boot and 2 x 9KG gas bottles. We are dumb founded. I hope some one has some good idea's please, we making a trip to Tasmania and do not want to be caught over weight, we are at a loss as we cannot take out anything else or we will be empty !!!!!. Thanks for any help.
Could you please enlighten us as to what these new laws are and where did this info come from ? A real source or camp fire chit chat . lots of chinese whispers in the caravan fraternity.
vickiparker said
02:24 PM Aug 18, 2018
it was from a mechanic who had just been to main roads for an update on weights etc.
aussie_paul said
02:25 PM Aug 18, 2018
vickiparker wrote:
We were informed yesterday that Qld will be bringing in new laws for caravans, we thought our van was fine until we bought scales to weigh the ball weight and found it over weight, we use a Jeep Grand Cherokee to tow and 18ft van with slide out. The only way we can get the weight down is to remove the gas bottle and batteries (3) and everything else we have got in the tunnel boot???? soooo what are we supposed to do???? we do not carry a great deal in the van. we have got a , 3 batteries in the tunnel bootand 2 x 9KG gas bottles. We are dumb founded. I hope some one has some good idea's please, we making a trip to Tasmania and do not want to be caught over weight, we are at a loss as we cannot take out anything else or we will be empty !!!!!. Thanks for any help.
That is a lot of weight not over the axles.
Aussie Paul.
Is this similar to yours?
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Saturday 18th of August 2018 02:28:02 PM
it was from a mechanic who had just been to main roads for an update on weights etc.
Like i said chinese whispers.
vickiparker said
02:42 PM Aug 18, 2018
yes that is our van and we love it for the room etc. I have just about had enough of it today so I am going to have a wine or two LOL hope you all have save travels and thanks for your input. We use the 3 batteries for off grid and he uses a cpap machine which uses an inverter, we also run an engle 35lt for a freezer. I think I might buy a tent LOL
Bill B said
02:44 PM Aug 18, 2018
Vicki can you post a picture of the compliance plate showing all the weights.
The 180 kg ball weight you mention, is that the ball weight shown on the compliance plate.
If so it is quite likely that 180 kgs is the ball weight at tare weight (ie. the caravan is empty - no contents, water, gas)
I wouldn't trust ball weight scales as some have proven to be very inaccurate in the past.
Take the van to a proper weigh bridge.
vickiparker said
03:05 PM Aug 18, 2018
this is from the draw bar of the caravan
yobarr said
03:05 PM Aug 18, 2018
vickiparker wrote:
The water tanks are in the middle over the axles anything heavy is over the axels. we have 1 water tank 120 litres, this is what I can't understand we really do not carry much. towball scales we still have to weigh the van, we are going to change the mattress as that is heavy but when we took it out it made no difference, the bed is at the front of the van. Tearing our hair out at the moment.
Speaking from my experience with towball weight scales,I suggest that you throw them.I have had three different types,and each of them was ridiculously inaccurate,one by 70kg on a 250kg ball weight..The best way to get an accurate reading is the bathroom scales method.Weighbridges sometimes work in 10kg increments,usually a lot more,but there is a lot of fiddling around unhooking etc unless you are familiar with the towball overhang formula.This means you can weigh your cars rear axle without the van,weigh it again with the van,apply the formula,and,hey presto,accurate ball weight.Im not familiar with your cars wheelbase or towball overhang,but my guess is that the EXTRA weight on your rear axle is 1.45 times the towball weight,so all you have to do is divide the EXTRA weight on your cars rear axle by 1.45.....this gives you your actual towball weight.Simple! Good luck.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 18th of August 2018 03:08:02 PM
PeterInSa said
03:24 PM Aug 18, 2018
Vicki,
I understand that some vans in Oz have up to 15% of their ATM on the Towball in your case it would be 270Kg when fully loaded prior to a trip, as mentioned in the article below. I suggest along with Possum3 you talk to Colin at the Caravan Council, Web address above.
as above - we bought towball scales (about $60) and each time we weighed the van - (3 times in an hour) we got a different reading varying by 80kg. useless piece of junk that we took back to the purchase point and got our money back. Also the 10% recommendation is a minimum recommendation - you can be heavier . What is the vehicle and towbar rated at and what was your actual ball weight?
You could also change batteries for a lithium ion set up - expensive but gets rid of a lot of weight
-- Edited by villatranquilla on Saturday 18th of August 2018 03:31:36 PM
vickiparker said
03:33 PM Aug 18, 2018
I did post a picture of the plate did it not go through?? unless I am not doing it right, I will try again
all good it has been really nice to get opinions from other sources.
Safe travels
outlaw40 said
04:25 PM Aug 18, 2018
so what was the actual ball weight. that vin plate has no max ball weight on it so you can theoretically got the max ball weight of your tow vehicle ( i guess 350kg ) though 10% of atm is a good rule of thumb to work with.
yobarr said
04:25 PM Aug 18, 2018
vickiparker wrote:
I did post a picture of the plate did it not go through?? unless I am not doing it right, I will try again
Hi Vicki.....I have not read the whole thread,so excuse me if I have taken the wrong tack,but I cant see any towball weight? I am guessing that you have simply deducted the GTM (2115kg weight on vans wheels) from the ATM (2300kg) to arrive at a figure of 185kg? This being the case,you can increase your towball weight to,say,250kg and all is good,provided your GTM stays at no more than 2050kg.If you elected to have TBM of 300kg,(assuming your car is rated to that?) your GTM simply has to be reduced to 2000kg.Problem solved? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 18th of August 2018 04:43:38 PM
PeterInSa said
04:26 PM Aug 18, 2018
and 15% of ATM of 2300 is around 345Kg
Bryan said
05:04 PM Aug 18, 2018
The official tow ball weight for a Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel is 350kg max. Jeep also recommend a WDH for vans with ATM of over 2270kg.
SouthernComfort said
05:13 PM Aug 18, 2018
The Jeep GC maximum ratings are 3500kg towing, with 350kg ball download. Your van has an ATM of 2300kg, so your ideal ball weight should be in the area of 230kg. If you are as lightly loaded as you say, I can't see the problem. We're all guessing of course, since you haven't stated your actual weights for ball or ATM. Best bet is get to a weighbridge and do a proper ticketed check, it's worth the effort. The plated ball weight usually relates to the Tare weight, but your pic of the compliance plate cuts off before the tare and ball weights. Maybe post the other half of that pic?
Paull said
06:45 PM Aug 18, 2018
put one battery over the axle and one in the rear, i had to do this to lower towball weight, i also put 2 x 20 L drinking water containers on the rear bar, this lowered my towball weight dramatically. If you are overweight, leave tanks empty until you get near where you are going.
River Rat said
08:15 PM Aug 18, 2018
yobarr wrote:
vickiparker wrote:
I did post a picture of the plate did it not go through?? unless I am not doing it right, I will try again
Hi Vicki.....I have not read the whole thread,so excuse me if I have taken the wrong tack,but I cant see any towball weight? I am guessing that you have simply deducted the GTM (2115kg weight on vans wheels) from the ATM (2300kg) to arrive at a figure of 185kg? This being the case,you can increase your towball weight to,say,250kg and all is good,provided your GTM stays at no more than 2050kg.If you elected to have TBM of 300kg,(assuming your car is rated to that?) your GTM simply has to be reduced to 2000kg.Problem solved? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 18th of August 2018 04:43:38 PM
We were informed yesterday that Qld will be bringing in new laws for caravans, we thought our van was fine until we bought scales to weigh the ball weight and found it over weight, we use a Jeep Grand Cherokee to tow and 18ft van with slide out. The only way we can get the weight down is to remove the gas bottle and batteries (3) and everything else we have got in the tunnel boot???? soooo what are we supposed to do???? we do not carry a great deal in the van. we have got a Cell 2012 The River, 3 batteries in the tunnel boot and 2 x 9KG gas bottles. We are dumb founded. I hope some one has some good idea's please, we making a trip to Tasmania and do not want to be caught over weight, we are at a loss as we cannot take out anything else or we will be empty !!!!!. Thanks for any help.
I do not know what the tow ball weight is for the JGC, but I understand some jeeps have a 350KG rating and to go over that for an 18Ft van to me would take some effort, ie Slide out is between the van wheels and the A frame and the van suspension is well towards the rear of the van. I would be considering moving the water tanks to the Rear of the caravan wheels/suspension and ditto the batteries and leave the gas bottles where they are. Filling the water tanks at the rear of the van will also lighten the Tow ball weight.
Would help if you told us the weight of the van on the towball and the weight of the van.
My thoughts, hope you solve your problem.
Peter
Firstly welcome to the forum
Not knowing all your weights.
But...
If it is only the ball weight which is over, you may try putting some things into the Jeep, while travelling
You could also try rearranging stuff, inside the caravan, canned food etc, to the rear, (while travelling)
When you finally solve the problem, which I hope that you do, can you please let us know
I am led to believe that weights, will become an issue for many of us, in the future
Welcome to the gang Vicki, enjoy here and out in the playground.
I say that because you only mentioned the ball weight was over 
Wow! Not easy hey!
Now, I am gussing by your intro your van's ATM is on or under Max weight
That all said and it would involve some expence but have you thought of relocating the batteries to above the axle/s
That way it wouldn't increase the ATM but reduce the ball weight. Do you need three batteries? The other thing you could ALSO do is change the 9kg gas bottles to 4.5kg bottles, assisting in the ball weight reduction.
It is very important not to go over the vans ATM as well. VERY IMPORTANT.
Upto a couple of months ago a update of your weights were possible and new compliance plate fitted but I read somewhere that is no longer an option and the reason I didn't suggest it.
The authorities are starting to tuffen up a little now. I was pulled over at a roadside check early this year in Northern VIC and the aluminium teepee and Collie were given the third degree. Both came out at the end of the process under all the max weights. Everything else they checked were also OK. I did know this though as I had gone through a major weight reduction process of the aluminium teepee mid 2017.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
You will find that most owners go by the 10% rule of thumb, ie, that the ball weight should be around 10% of total caravan weight (at a minimum I suggest)
I would have thought 180 would be about right for your van, I had a look at the specs for the 2012 Cell River, it looks like a tare weight of 1800kg, so the 180kg ball is spot on. Spec. says ball weight of 186kg.
On the surface it's hard to see what the problem is, the Jeep should easily handle that weight so why do you think there is an overweight issue???
Cheers Vince
Could you please enlighten us as to what these new laws are and where did this info come from ? A real source or camp fire chit chat . lots of chinese whispers in the caravan fraternity.
it was from a mechanic who had just been to main roads for an update on weights etc.
That is a lot of weight not over the axles.
Aussie Paul.
Is this similar to yours?
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Saturday 18th of August 2018 02:28:02 PM
Like i said chinese whispers.
The 180 kg ball weight you mention, is that the ball weight shown on the compliance plate.
If so it is quite likely that 180 kgs is the ball weight at tare weight (ie. the caravan is empty - no contents, water, gas)
I wouldn't trust ball weight scales as some have proven to be very inaccurate in the past.
Take the van to a proper weigh bridge.
this is from the draw bar of the caravan
Speaking from my experience with towball weight scales,I suggest that you throw them.I have had three different types,and each of them was ridiculously inaccurate,one by 70kg on a 250kg ball weight..The best way to get an accurate reading is the bathroom scales method.Weighbridges sometimes work in 10kg increments,usually a lot more,but there is a lot of fiddling around unhooking etc unless you are familiar with the towball overhang formula.This means you can weigh your cars rear axle without the van,weigh it again with the van,apply the formula,and,hey presto,accurate ball weight.Im not familiar with your cars wheelbase or towball overhang,but my guess is that the EXTRA weight on your rear axle is 1.45 times the towball weight,so all you have to do is divide the EXTRA weight on your cars rear axle by 1.45.....this gives you your actual towball weight.Simple! Good luck.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 18th of August 2018 03:08:02 PM
I understand that some vans in Oz have up to 15% of their ATM on the Towball in your case it would be 270Kg when fully loaded prior to a trip, as mentioned in the article below. I suggest along with Possum3 you talk to Colin at the Caravan Council, Web address above.
www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/driving-towing-towing/towball-weight-and-trailer-stability
Peter
as above - we bought towball scales (about $60) and each time we weighed the van - (3 times in an hour) we got a different reading varying by 80kg. useless piece of junk that we took back to the purchase point and got our money back.
Also the 10% recommendation is a minimum recommendation - you can be heavier . What is the vehicle and towbar rated at and what was your actual ball weight?
You could also change batteries for a lithium ion set up - expensive but gets rid of a lot of weight
-- Edited by villatranquilla on Saturday 18th of August 2018 03:31:36 PM
all good it has been really nice to get opinions from other sources.
Safe travels
Hi Vicki.....I have not read the whole thread,so excuse me if I have taken the wrong tack,but I cant see any towball weight? I am guessing that you have simply deducted the GTM (2115kg weight on vans wheels) from the ATM (2300kg) to arrive at a figure of 185kg? This being the case,you can increase your towball weight to,say,250kg and all is good,provided your GTM stays at no more than 2050kg.If you elected to have TBM of 300kg,(assuming your car is rated to that?) your GTM simply has to be reduced to 2000kg.Problem solved? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 18th of August 2018 04:43:38 PM
The official tow ball weight for a Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel is 350kg max. Jeep also recommend a WDH for vans with ATM of over 2270kg.
spot on, it's really as simple as that