This image represents each individual State & Territory.
This image represents each State & Territory actually agreeing on something instead of rowing their own individual boat.
Notice how they're actually getting somewhere!
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Friday 10th of August 2018 07:54:03 AM
rockylizard said
09:18 AM Aug 10, 2018
Gday...
I am fully aware that this is well known by all - but just to refresh ...
Before Australia was a nation, it was a collection of British colonies. Each colony was under the rule of a governor or lieutenant governor, who acted on behalf of the British Parliament. By 1860 all the colonies, apart from Western Australia, had been granted partial self-government (Western Australia became self-governing in 1890). Each had its own written constitution, parliament and laws, although the British Parliament retained the power to make laws for the colonies and could over-rule laws passed by the colonial parliaments. Through the 1800s people in each colony were granted the right to elect their own parliaments. However, voting eligibility was often restricted to males with a certain amount of wealth and land. In the 1890s many colonial leaders began working towards uniting the colonies as one country with its own constitution. The Australian Constitution was drafted at a series of conventions (meetings) by representatives of the colonies and was approved by referendums held in each colony. In July 1900 Australian delegates went to London with a draft of the Constitution to present to the British Parliament. The Parliament passed the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 which gave effect to the Constitution. The Constitution united the six self-governing colonies, as separate states, within the Commonwealth of Australia. It established that:
power would be shared between the federal and state parliaments
members of parliament would be elected
federal Parliament would be bicameral (consist of two houses), and represent the population overall (the House of Representatives) and the people in the states (the Senate).
And let's look at another strong country -
USA was formed after the agreement among 13 British colonies. It found its origin in declaration of independence signed in 1776. So they adopted federal form of structure. From 13 states, they have expanded to 50 states including Alaska and Hawaai which have no boundary with mainland USA. The British colonies became independent states. The United States Constitution defines the structure of the national government and dictates the scope and limitation of its powers. The Constitution is known as the supreme Law of the Land and all other laws are measured against it. The application of the articles and amendments of the Constitution comprise constitutional law. In addition to the United States Constitution, each state has its own constitution and therefore, its own body of constitutional law as well. State constitutions resemble the federal Constitution in that they outline the state governments structure of legislative, executive and judicial branches as well as contain a bill of rights.
And we all know just has effective USA is in all 'pulling together in the same direction' with only National laws/regulations etc etc.
So one would suggest that the only way Australia and USA, (as examples) can get absolute consistency in laws/regulations etc etc, is to change the constitutions of each country and states therein.
One can only suggest this is unlikely to happen.
Now I need a good lie down.
Cheers - John
Dougwe said
09:24 AM Aug 10, 2018
Don't forget the 'Bex' Rocky.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Friday 10th of August 2018 09:29:52 AM
Desert Dweller said
09:41 AM Aug 10, 2018
Yes the States got together for the COMMON WEALTH but unfortunately they only seem interested in their own individual wealth. It's been that way since federation.
rockylizard said
09:45 AM Aug 10, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
Yes the States got together for the COMMON WEALTH but unfortunately they only seem interested in their own individual wealth. It's been that way since federation.
Gday...
I think that is what I said Keith
So the solution is simple. Change the Commonwealth constitution and all the State and Territory constitutions and problem solvered.
Cheers - John
Peter_n_Margaret said
04:04 PM Aug 10, 2018
Who was it said "If you don't like it, leave"?
There is a que waiting to fill your spot.
Cheers,
Peter
Desert Dweller said
05:49 AM Aug 11, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Who was it said "If you don't like it, leave"? There is a que waiting to fill your spot.
Cheers, Peter
That's a bit harsh Sunshine. Exactly where did we say that we didn't like Oz?
It's because we love our country so much, that we would like to see a more efficient system of government if possible.
Eaglemax said
02:00 PM Aug 11, 2018
I think there is merit in the OP.
There has been light talk of doing away with state Governments for this exact reason. Good example is road laws. Our roads/vehicles aren't different enough in terrain and construction to warrant different laws in each state...in fact it doesn't make sense. Then again if Victoria had annual roadworthy inspections I'd be outraged as a Victorian. Gotta be careful what we wish for.
On the other hand here in Victoria under Jeff Kennett local Governments had a severe shake up in the 1990's and any wonder with the corruption. That's the trouble with democracy- it is open to more corruption than the alternative however Churchill once said "Democracy is the worse form of Government except for all the others".
The "animal" nature of the Federal Govt can't be changed without mass protest which, as laid back people doesn't happen unless the thorns penetrate deeply into most peoples conscience. So it aint gunna happen in the short term as our political system attracts a certain sort of person generally. On occasions a surprise comes along like Hinch in the senate Tony Winsor or Katter that is and always will be, not of the same mould, they have their own minds not constrained by their party lines. But regardless, many voters stick to their traditional party and that is a problem in itself because no matter how poorly that party performs.
But without getting specifically too political or system of Govt has one major flaw- they aren't connected to the people. No matter the level of disagreement the people have on Govt decisions they (both parties) find it impossible to change their minds, as if pride has overtaken them. Hypocrisy is rife. We are reminded we are living beyond our means yet give away 4 billion dollars in foreign aid annually. And living beyond our means isn't sacrificed on the wine dining politician mind you.
So yes, I see our Government systems as needing reform but it wont come for a long time if ever. A republic could be an opportunity likely missed.
The Belmont Bear said
07:41 AM Aug 12, 2018
Maybe it's time to return to what we once had - the colony of New South Wales western border was set in 1825 at the 129th meridian east. NSW at that time included all of the Australian mainland east of that line as well as Van Diemans Land, Lord Howe Island, Norfolk Island and New Zealand, it did not include the Swan Colonies. During the 1800s parts of NSW progressively broke away to form self governing British colonies which eventually became the states and territories of Australia as well as the country of New Zealand. Obviously the experiment has failed and the only solution would be for all those states to now plead with the government of NSW to take them back. Unfortunately WA never having been part of this great state would not qualify and New Zealand's application to join would no doubt be rejected due to the language difficulties that have developed since they left.
Your images DD would then be a fairly accurate representation of what a future WA and NSW would look like - think of all the fuel that we could save when doing a big lap if we no longer had to drive all the way over to that west coast to complete it.
Cheers BB
Cupie said
03:58 PM Aug 13, 2018
Perhaps a contributor is our politician's (our society's?) loss of the art of negotiation.
If indeed we are concerned at a lack of progression it may be of value to ponder that well known military saying "Advance to the Rear". Not all movement leads to an improvement.
I have a paperweight that was awarded to participants at the conclusion of a Management course on in Industrial Relations way back in my working days.
It carries the inscription ...
" Negotiation ... Seek Win - Win Agreement "
All I see these days is a win at all costs mentality through out our society.
I just can't imagine a Governmental system based on a Federal Parliament and regional Local Authorities, particularly in such a vast country as AU.
During the Peter Beattie era in Qld to obtain advantages of scale several very small councils were amalgamated. The screams of protest & recent deamalgamation!!!!! Perhaps we could start the move towards abolishing the States by amalgamating the vast number of Sydney local councils into a Greater Sydney City Council as a start.
But most importantly .. what about the impact on the State Of Origin RL.
Of course BBs model of NSW has long been the one that NSW R/L subscribe to - a model that would finally resolve the GI issue. An alternative re-maping of boundaries could see extension of Queensland's border further south as far as the existing Vic Border thus extending the spirit of Qld to the greater benefit of the Nation. As a gesture of conciliation and in a sop to Republicans we could change the name from Queens land to say, Wally's land or Wally's world. As as extra bonus the GI question remains solved. (Note .. GI = Greg Inglis, Wally= Wally Lewis)
Despite this .. Au is in my opinion, after a first hand taste of many other countries & a lifetime of reading/observing, very much still the best of all.
-- Edited by Cupie on Monday 13th of August 2018 04:13:32 PM
The Belmont Bear said
09:41 PM Aug 13, 2018
Cupie after 190 years we are used to rebel groups stealing NSW land, setting up their own systems of government and coming up with a silly name for the place. If Qld managed to pinch the bit that is left it wouldnt come as any great surprise besides it would serve you guys right if you then ended up with Victoria as a neighbour. By the way earlier this week I was standing across the road from GI,s (and mine) old school Hunter Sports High admiring all of the new buildings that are under construction. I believe that as a sporting gesture the NSWRL are planning to increase the production of premium rugby league players from NSW schools so that Qld can rebuild their origin team and become competitive again
Cheer
BB
Cupie said
11:05 PM Aug 13, 2018
The Belmont Bear wrote:
Cupie after 190 years we are used to rebel groups stealing NSW land, setting up their own systems of government and coming up with a silly name for the place. If Qld managed to pinch the bit that is left it wouldnt come as any great surprise besides it would serve you guys right if you then ended up with Victoria as a neighbour. By the way earlier this week I was standing across the road from GI,s (and mine) old school Hunter Sports High admiring all of the new buildings that are under construction. I believe that as a sporting gesture the NSWRL are planning to increase the production of premium rugby league players from NSW schools so that Qld can rebuild their origin team and become competitive again
Cheer
BB
Be great to have Vics as neighbours. We are used to them. A significant percentage of them come up here every winter. Love them. My Brother even married one.
I suppose the first role of the HSH will be to rebuild the Newcastle side. Now there's a task to test anyone. While we are on that subject, your old coach Benny might soon be available if you can afford him without your old benefactor.
BTW talking about silly names and stealing land, what was the situation >190 years ago before new SOUTH WALES.
The Belmont Bear said
07:02 AM Aug 14, 2018
Cupie wrote:
The Belmont Bear wrote:
Cupie after 190 years we are used to rebel groups stealing NSW land, setting up their own systems of government and coming up with a silly name for the place. If Qld managed to pinch the bit that is left it wouldnt come as any great surprise besides it would serve you guys right if you then ended up with Victoria as a neighbour. By the way earlier this week I was standing across the road from GI,s (and mine) old school Hunter Sports High admiring all of the new buildings that are under construction. I believe that as a sporting gesture the NSWRL are planning to increase the production of premium rugby league players from NSW schools so that Qld can rebuild their origin team and become competitive again
Cheer
BB
Be great to have Vics as neighbours. We are used to them. A significant percentage of them come up here every winter. Love them. My Brother even married one.
I suppose the first role of the HSH will be to rebuild the Newcastle side. Now there's a task to test anyone. While we are on that subject, your old coach Benny might soon be available if you can afford him without your old benefactor.
BTW talking about silly names and stealing land, what was the situation >190 years ago before new SOUTH WALES.
Cupie the knights happen to be in a rebuilding phase and have been since they won their last premiership in 2001. We the faithful supporters have been assured by Nathan Brown that we are only 4 or 5 years away from having a competitive side again. What he fails to take into account is that all of the players that have been developed during this time are either playing for other clubs or in their late 50s and will probably be retiring within a few years.
Good point you make though about pre 1825 NSW we are no doubt as guilty as the rest of you, all we can do is to try and make retribution with our indigenous people and drop the South Wales bit from our name. Probably about time we cut the strings with Britian anyhow people will just have to get used to the idea of coming from a state called New which in the future will no doubt become Newie. It would make a lot of sense to then move the state capital up here to Newie City, the state parliament could meet in that defunct phalic looking building on our harbour foreshore rather than scrapping it as planned. The best bit is they could utilise the nearly completed light rail system to get to work as by all accounts there is going to be plenty of room on it for them.
Easy for you to say that Victorians would make great neighbours when you are a whole state away .......
Cheers
BB
Sarco Harris said
10:35 PM Aug 14, 2018
To me an issue that is often overlooked is the political parties and our voting system itself.
We allow all sorts of tiny tin pot political parties to be formed. Here in Vic, leading up to the election in Nov, it is happening again. These micro parties have very little hope of being elected (particularly in the lower houses of parliament). This then comes down to our preferential voting system.
All these little parties, split up the vote and generally ensure that individual major parties, MUST rely on the preferences to get their member elected. So off they go and make all these backroom deals to ensure the preference flows are to them.
However I don't know that I would support doing away with the preference system in the lower houses (a simple review of election results indicates that it would not make a lot of difference), but the micro parties still do have some impact on skewing the vote.
However the upper houses (state and federal - excuse QLD) doing away with the preference system would in all likelihood, give the states (and Australia) a more workable government system, instead of clowns that make decisions on running the country based on political expediency (to keep themselves elected and on the gravy train) rather than what is best for the people of Australia and/or the State.
Sarco
-- Edited by Sarco Harris on Tuesday 14th of August 2018 10:36:10 PM
rockylizard said
08:32 AM Aug 15, 2018
Sarco Harris wrote:
SNIP~~~..........instead of clowns that make decisions on running the country based on political expediency (to keep themselves elected and on the gravy train) rather than what is best for the people of Australia and/or the State.
Sarco
Gday...
I think what you mean is that we end up with 'career' politicians.
Far too many have been in parliament for far too long. Just look at how many years the 'top' pollies have held on to their 'gravy train'.
They have been there so long they have no idea of what the world outside parliament/Canberra/their capital city (for State reps) is REALLY like.
I believe that once elected, a term of office for ALL politicians should not exceed three terms. After three terms that person is not eligible to sit again.
Also it should be that no party can rule as government for more than two consecutive terms.
Praps that way, they will begin to make decisions that will be good for the country as their decisions will have little, or no, impact on their re-election prospects.
Look at the Snowy Scheme, Sydney Harbour bridge, the Goldfields Water Supply scheme - all took many years to complete and spanned many electoral cycles.
But those old pollies made decisions for the 'growth and betterment' of their country. Not to p!$$ in the pocket of some donor or local constituency or for the 30 second media grab for the 6.30 news.
Unfortunately, to make such a change will require those who are there now to initiate the change - and there lies the problem.
How many squadrons of flying pigs will occur before any change would happen.
cheers - but Straya is still the best place to live - John
Sarco Harris said
09:48 PM Aug 18, 2018
Sadly it is not just career politicians that to me are the problem. The reverse is also the problem. - straight from uni into a political career path and into government. That is political staffer to preselection to elected member without actually ever having a real job or experience in the workforce. This is now getting to be more and more the norm across all parties, once it was only labor party doing it.
Sarco
-- Edited by Sarco Harris on Saturday 18th of August 2018 09:49:04 PM
Can the States & Territories agree on anything?
This image represents each individual State & Territory.
This image represents each State & Territory actually agreeing on something instead of rowing their own individual boat.
Notice how they're actually getting somewhere!
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Friday 10th of August 2018 07:54:03 AM
Gday...
I am fully aware that this is well known by all - but just to refresh ...
Before Australia was a nation, it was a collection of British colonies. Each colony was under the rule of a governor or lieutenant governor, who acted on behalf of the British Parliament. By 1860 all the colonies, apart from Western Australia, had been granted partial self-government (Western Australia became self-governing in 1890).
Each had its own written constitution, parliament and laws, although the British Parliament retained the power to make laws for the colonies and could over-rule laws passed by the colonial parliaments. Through the 1800s people in each colony were granted the right to elect their own parliaments. However, voting eligibility was often restricted to males with a certain amount of wealth and land.
In the 1890s many colonial leaders began working towards uniting the colonies as one country with its own constitution. The Australian Constitution was drafted at a series of conventions (meetings) by representatives of the colonies and was approved by referendums held in each colony. In July 1900 Australian delegates went to London with a draft of the Constitution to present to the British Parliament. The Parliament passed the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 which gave effect to the Constitution.
The Constitution united the six self-governing colonies, as separate states, within the Commonwealth of Australia. It established that:
And let's look at another strong country -
USA was formed after the agreement among 13 British colonies. It found its origin in declaration of independence signed in 1776. So they adopted federal form of structure. From 13 states, they have expanded to 50 states including Alaska and Hawaai which have no boundary with mainland USA. The British colonies became independent states.
The United States Constitution defines the structure of the national government and dictates the scope and limitation of its powers. The Constitution is known as the supreme Law of the Land and all other laws are measured against it. The application of the articles and amendments of the Constitution comprise constitutional law.
In addition to the United States Constitution, each state has its own constitution and therefore, its own body of constitutional law as well. State constitutions resemble the federal Constitution in that they outline the state governments structure of legislative, executive and judicial branches as well as contain a bill of rights.
And we all know just has effective USA is in all 'pulling together in the same direction' with only National laws/regulations etc etc.
So one would suggest that the only way Australia and USA, (as examples) can get absolute consistency in laws/regulations etc etc, is to change the constitutions of each country and states therein.
One can only suggest this is unlikely to happen.
Now I need a good lie down.
Cheers - John
Don't forget the 'Bex' Rocky.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Friday 10th of August 2018 09:29:52 AM
Gday...
I think that is what I said Keith
So the solution is simple. Change the Commonwealth constitution and all the State and Territory constitutions and problem solvered.
Cheers - John
There is a que waiting to fill your spot.
Cheers,
Peter
That's a bit harsh Sunshine. Exactly where did we say that we didn't like Oz?
It's because we love our country so much, that we would like to see a more efficient system of government if possible.
I think there is merit in the OP.
There has been light talk of doing away with state Governments for this exact reason. Good example is road laws. Our roads/vehicles aren't different enough in terrain and construction to warrant different laws in each state...in fact it doesn't make sense. Then again if Victoria had annual roadworthy inspections I'd be outraged as a Victorian. Gotta be careful what we wish for.
On the other hand here in Victoria under Jeff Kennett local Governments had a severe shake up in the 1990's and any wonder with the corruption. That's the trouble with democracy- it is open to more corruption than the alternative however Churchill once said "Democracy is the worse form of Government except for all the others".
The "animal" nature of the Federal Govt can't be changed without mass protest which, as laid back people doesn't happen unless the thorns penetrate deeply into most peoples conscience. So it aint gunna happen in the short term as our political system attracts a certain sort of person generally. On occasions a surprise comes along like Hinch in the senate Tony Winsor or Katter that is and always will be, not of the same mould, they have their own minds not constrained by their party lines. But regardless, many voters stick to their traditional party and that is a problem in itself because no matter how poorly that party performs.
But without getting specifically too political or system of Govt has one major flaw- they aren't connected to the people. No matter the level of disagreement the people have on Govt decisions they (both parties) find it impossible to change their minds, as if pride has overtaken them. Hypocrisy is rife. We are reminded we are living beyond our means yet give away 4 billion dollars in foreign aid annually. And living beyond our means isn't sacrificed on the wine dining politician mind you.
So yes, I see our Government systems as needing reform but it wont come for a long time if ever. A republic could be an opportunity likely missed.
Maybe it's time to return to what we once had - the colony of New South Wales western border was set in 1825 at the 129th meridian east. NSW at that time included all of the Australian mainland east of that line as well as Van Diemans Land, Lord Howe Island, Norfolk Island and New Zealand, it did not include the Swan Colonies. During the 1800s parts of NSW progressively broke away to form self governing British colonies which eventually became the states and territories of Australia as well as the country of New Zealand. Obviously the experiment has failed and the only solution would be for all those states to now plead with the government of NSW to take them back. Unfortunately WA never having been part of this great state would not qualify and New Zealand's application to join would no doubt be rejected due to the language difficulties that have developed since they left.
Your images DD would then be a fairly accurate representation of what a future WA and NSW would look like - think of all the fuel that we could save when doing a big lap if we no longer had to drive all the way over to that west coast to complete it.
Cheers
BB
Perhaps a contributor is our politician's (our society's?) loss of the art of negotiation.
If indeed we are concerned at a lack of progression it may be of value to ponder that well known military saying "Advance to the Rear". Not all movement leads to an improvement.
I have a paperweight that was awarded to participants at the conclusion of a Management course on in Industrial Relations way back in my working days.
It carries the inscription ...
" Negotiation ... Seek Win - Win Agreement "
All I see these days is a win at all costs mentality through out our society.
I just can't imagine a Governmental system based on a Federal Parliament and regional Local Authorities, particularly in such a vast country as AU.
During the Peter Beattie era in Qld to obtain advantages of scale several very small councils were amalgamated. The screams of protest & recent deamalgamation!!!!! Perhaps we could start the move towards abolishing the States by amalgamating the vast number of Sydney local councils into a Greater Sydney City Council as a start.
But most importantly .. what about the impact on the State Of Origin RL.
Of course BBs model of NSW has long been the one that NSW R/L subscribe to - a model that would finally resolve the GI issue. An alternative re-maping of boundaries could see extension of Queensland's border further south as far as the existing Vic Border thus extending the spirit of Qld to the greater benefit of the Nation. As a gesture of conciliation and in a sop to Republicans we could change the name from Queens land to say, Wally's land or Wally's world. As as extra bonus the GI question remains solved. (Note .. GI = Greg Inglis, Wally= Wally Lewis)
Despite this .. Au is in my opinion, after a first hand taste of many other countries & a lifetime of reading/observing, very much still the best of all.
-- Edited by Cupie on Monday 13th of August 2018 04:13:32 PM
Cupie after 190 years we are used to rebel groups stealing NSW land, setting up their own systems of government and coming up with a silly name for the place. If Qld managed to pinch the bit that is left it wouldnt come as any great surprise besides it would serve you guys right if you then ended up with Victoria as a neighbour. By the way earlier this week I was standing across the road from GI,s (and mine) old school Hunter Sports High admiring all of the new buildings that are under construction. I believe that as a sporting gesture the NSWRL are planning to increase the production of premium rugby league players from NSW schools so that Qld can rebuild their origin team and become competitive again
Cheer
BB
Be great to have Vics as neighbours. We are used to them. A significant percentage of them come up here every winter. Love them. My Brother even married one.
I suppose the first role of the HSH will be to rebuild the Newcastle side. Now there's a task to test anyone. While we are on that subject, your old coach Benny might soon be available if you can afford him without your old benefactor.
BTW talking about silly names and stealing land, what was the situation >190 years ago before new SOUTH WALES.
Cupie the knights happen to be in a rebuilding phase and have been since they won their last premiership in 2001. We the faithful supporters have been assured by Nathan Brown that we are only 4 or 5 years away from having a competitive side again. What he fails to take into account is that all of the players that have been developed during this time are either playing for other clubs or in their late 50s and will probably be retiring within a few years.
Good point you make though about pre 1825 NSW we are no doubt as guilty as the rest of you, all we can do is to try and make retribution with our indigenous people and drop the South Wales bit from our name. Probably about time we cut the strings with Britian anyhow people will just have to get used to the idea of coming from a state called New which in the future will no doubt become Newie. It would make a lot of sense to then move the state capital up here to Newie City, the state parliament could meet in that defunct phalic looking building on our harbour foreshore rather than scrapping it as planned. The best bit is they could utilise the nearly completed light rail system to get to work as by all accounts there is going to be plenty of room on it for them.
Easy for you to say that Victorians would make great neighbours when you are a whole state away .......
Cheers
BB
To me an issue that is often overlooked is the political parties and our voting system itself.
We allow all sorts of tiny tin pot political parties to be formed. Here in Vic, leading up to the election in Nov, it is happening again. These micro parties have very little hope of being elected (particularly in the lower houses of parliament). This then comes down to our preferential voting system.
All these little parties, split up the vote and generally ensure that individual major parties, MUST rely on the preferences to get their member elected. So off they go and make all these backroom deals to ensure the preference flows are to them.
However I don't know that I would support doing away with the preference system in the lower houses (a simple review of election results indicates that it would not make a lot of difference), but the micro parties still do have some impact on skewing the vote.
However the upper houses (state and federal - excuse QLD) doing away with the preference system would in all likelihood, give the states (and Australia) a more workable government system, instead of clowns that make decisions on running the country based on political expediency (to keep themselves elected and on the gravy train) rather than what is best for the people of Australia and/or the State.
Sarco
-- Edited by Sarco Harris on Tuesday 14th of August 2018 10:36:10 PM
Gday...
I think what you mean is that we end up with 'career' politicians.
Far too many have been in parliament for far too long. Just look at how many years the 'top' pollies have held on to their 'gravy train'.
They have been there so long they have no idea of what the world outside parliament/Canberra/their capital city (for State reps) is REALLY like.
I believe that once elected, a term of office for ALL politicians should not exceed three terms. After three terms that person is not eligible to sit again.
Also it should be that no party can rule as government for more than two consecutive terms.
Praps that way, they will begin to make decisions that will be good for the country as their decisions will have little, or no, impact on their re-election prospects.
Look at the Snowy Scheme, Sydney Harbour bridge, the Goldfields Water Supply scheme - all took many years to complete and spanned many electoral cycles.
But those old pollies made decisions for the 'growth and betterment' of their country. Not to p!$$ in the pocket of some donor or local constituency or for the 30 second media grab for the 6.30 news.
Unfortunately, to make such a change will require those who are there now to initiate the change - and there lies the problem.
How many squadrons of flying pigs will occur before any change would happen.
cheers - but Straya is still the best place to live - John
Sadly it is not just career politicians that to me are the problem. The reverse is also the problem. - straight from uni into a political career path and into government. That is political staffer to preselection to elected member without actually ever having a real job or experience in the workforce. This is now getting to be more and more the norm across all parties, once it was only labor party doing it.
Sarco
-- Edited by Sarco Harris on Saturday 18th of August 2018 09:49:04 PM
Gday...
Profound Cloak .... profound
Another excellent reason to choose our pollies.
Cheers - John